Well I Really Shot Myself In The Foot.

[Pandorian]

For about the last 10 or so years, I have had a really sore trial of my faith. Just for some background, I was at one time a regular poster on RFM, and on NOM, and would read lots and lots and lots of faith shattering material on all sorts of sites, as well as Apologetic Materials here.

Never could come to a firm conclusion of who was right and who was wrong, and would waiver from atheistic to agnostic to christian agnostic, and all the way back again. I was pretty miserable to say the least because I wanted to KNOW the truth, and I couldn't come to any 'certain conclusion who was right and who was wrong'

So a few months back, I decided the only way to find out the truth was to pull an Enos or Joseph Smith. One day, not wanting to go to church,(my wife was fully active and TBM, and threatened me with divorce if I didn't go, so I attended as a NOM), I went for a drive, found myself a little grove of trees and knelt down...

and had the most amazing experience. I won't go into details because it is sacred to me, and has resolved ALL my concerns about God and the Church, and I personally haven't had any issues with my testimony since. I KNOW the gospel is true.

However, here is the problem. During my NOM/Apostasy period, I would sometimes go on drives with my 14 year old son and VENT about issues I was having with things that were being done at church, and how it was very likely to be just another MAN MADE church, and not from God at all.

So now he doesn't want anything to do with going to Church, and I completely BLAME myself for it.

I have tried to explain what I went through, and that he doesn't need to go through all my struggles and should take it that the Gospel is true, and he says that he has a testimony, though sometimes he is not sure. He says that his main reason for not wanting to go is that it's BORING. (I can't disagree that sometimes it is, that's why I always have an art pad with me)

He is just not interested. I don't know if it's because he's 14 and a teenager, or how much of it is my previous behavior. I just pray that I didn't blow it with him.

[Duncan]

well, he has to find out on his own as you say. I would just create a climate (if you haven't done so already) of inquiry and just try to be positive about religious matters, maybe he'll turn around but he needs to know what to turn to

[rongo]

Don't panic, and be patient. While you (and your son) are suffering the consequences for your choices and actions, the consequences for your present choices and actions will have their effect, too. Seek to emulate Alma the Elder by praying consistently for your son, and you can have miracles happen in your lives, too.

[BCSpace]

"In order to live in my house and receive of my beneficence, we go to Church."

Of course that usually only works well if the children are raised that way. If there was any hint of that,say, from his mother, it might still be possible to use. Or perhaps if he's not that independent yet it could still be used. Of course it never should come to having to actually say that first sentence out loud. It's a matter of "C'mon, we're late for Church and we're waiting for you." Be late a few Sundays until he gets the message. You and his mother must present a united front on this.

You'll need to do the same for Tuesday (or Wednesday) night with the scouts/young men. I guarantee His conversion will incomplete and more difficult without that. Talk to the Bishop/YM President and see if the boys can befriend him especially.

Otherwise there is just infinite patience, love, understanding, positive enticement, prayer and fasting, all of which should be there anyway in addition to laying down the law.

The Lord has commanded you to raise him this way (in the Church) and you can communicate that to him as well at the appropriate time.

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Proverbs 2:26

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/family-children-responsibilities-toward?lang=eng

Edited November 19, 2012 by BCSpace

[why me]

However, here is the problem. During my NOM/Apostasy period, I would sometimes go on drives with my 14 year old son and VENT about issues I was having with things that were being done at church, and how it was very likely to be just another MAN MADE church, and not from God at all.

So now he doesn't want anything to do with going to Church, and I completely BLAME myself for it.

I have tried to explain what I went through, and that he doesn't need to go through all my struggles and should take it that the Gospel is true, and he says that he has a testimony, though sometimes he is not sure. He says that his main reason for not wanting to go is that it's BORING. (I can't disagree that sometimes it is, that's why I always have an art pad with me)

He is just not interested. I don't know if it's because he's 14 and a teenager, or how much of it is my previous behavior. I just pray that I didn't blow it with him.

I think that this happens often. I parent becomes disgruntled with the church and attempts to influence other family members to see it their way. The problem is when that parent or spouse becomes active again and cannot undo the damage that was inflicted.

When in this situation, the person can only hope that the family member will return to the fold but it will not be easy. Words can be very powerful and not very easy to forget.

[Mark Beesley]

For about the last 10 or so years, I have had a really sore trial of my faith. Just for some background, I was at one time a regular poster on RFM, and on NOM, and would read lots and lots and lots of faith shattering material on all sorts of sites, as well as Apologetic Materials here.

Never could come to a firm conclusion of who was right and who was wrong, and would waiver from atheistic to agnostic to christian agnostic, and all the way back again. I was pretty miserable to say the least because I wanted to KNOW the truth, and I couldn't come to any 'certain conclusion who was right and who was wrong'

So a few months back, I decided the only way to find out the truth was to pull an Enos or Joseph Smith. One day, not wanting to go to church,(my wife was fully active and TBM, and threatened me with divorce if I didn't go, so I attended as a NOM), I went for a drive, found myself a little grove of trees and knelt down...

and had the most amazing experience. I won't go into details because it is sacred to me, and has resolved ALL my concerns about God and the Church, and I personally haven't had any issues with my testimony since. I KNOW the gospel is true.

However, here is the problem. During my NOM/Apostasy period, I would sometimes go on drives with my 14 year old son and VENT about issues I was having with things that were being done at church, and how it was very likely to be just another MAN MADE church, and not from God at all.

So now he doesn't want anything to do with going to Church, and I completely BLAME myself for it.

I have tried to explain what I went through, and that he doesn't need to go through all my struggles and should take it that the Gospel is true, and he says that he has a testimony, though sometimes he is not sure. He says that his main reason for not wanting to go is that it's BORING. (I can't disagree that sometimes it is, that's why I always have an art pad with me)

He is just not interested. I don't know if it's because he's 14 and a teenager, or how much of it is my previous behavior. I just pray that I didn't blow it with him.

You didn't blow it with him, so long as you have truly repented and done what you can to make amends. In the end, it is his choice. But it seems he is pretty young for you to start being too terribly worried. He's at a rebellious age.

It is difficult to understand why some youth with faithful parents stray while others remain faithful, and some youth with unfaithful parents stray while others cling to the Gospel. Probably has something to do with the spiritual capacity we are born with on account of what we did in our pre-mortal lives.

As for the verse in Proverbs that says, Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it, it just ain't so. I've seen it in my family. I've seen it in the families of friends and General Authorities.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Mark Beesley

[BCSpace]

As for the verse in Proverbs that says, Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it, it just ain't so. I've seen it in my family. I've seen it in the families of friends and General Authorities.

I would posit that it is true in most cases. Certainly one will have far more likelihood of success than by any other method.

[rpn]

Tell him about the new church youth curriculum. It's designed to put him in charge of his own learning.

[why me]

You didn't blow it with him, so long as you have truly repented and done what you can to make amends. In the end, it is his choice.

This is true. But the parent did give him an excuse to not attend church or dislike it. Hard to take back words and sometimes actions do not help. The son may need his own spiritual experience to find his way back. And of course, with time, see the father's example and wish to follow it.

[nosmelone]

I had to beat the testimony into my oldest child. I used the priesthood handbook just due to its sheer size and weight....it worked great!

As a person who had my own "alma the younger" situation as a teenager to my early 20's I can assure you your current example is speaking volumes to him. My family still considers it a miracle that I came back to the church but they now come to me for any gospel related questions. I always knew I'd come back because I never questioned if it was true I always knew it was but it just wasn't convenient to my lifestyle. Just keep on keeping on and I promise you it will all be fine.

[Storm Rider]

That is a tough situation, but it is often the case with teenagers of all kinds. Church is not for entertainment; it is not a place to go to "get" something necessarily (outside of the Sacrament, which is major); but church is a place to give. Give of our attention when others are speaking; give of our reverence to worship our God; give of our peace that others may be comforted; give of our prayers so God's will will be done; give of our patience to allow others to grow at their own pace. Church is a place to DO something; to engage with others in learning more deeply about God and how to be a better disciple of Jesus Christ. I do agree with others that as long as he is under your roof, he needs to follow rules. Keep taking those rides and let him know how much you care for him, love, respect him. These are difficult times for our young people and they need a lot more support; support that will never be found at home while you are in church.

[cinepro]

That was a lot to read to find out you hadn't really shot yourself in the foot.

[Ahab]

He is just not interested. I don't know if it's because he's 14 and a teenager, or how much of it is my previous behavior. I just pray that I didn't blow it with him.

The nice thing about shots and blow holes is that they can be patched up, by the power of our Lord's atonement.

... not that you should go shoot yourself in the foot again, but those holes can be fixed, if they haven't been already.

Just tell your son that he'll get more out of the worship of God experience the more he puts into it... and maybe talk to some of his leaders about what you can all do together to try to get him more "activated".

[TAO]

Try to get him to attend Seminary. There was a time when I needed God, and when that itme came, Seminary was there to encourage me to look for the answer. Through semniary, I learned to go to God with my questions. Perhaps he might learn this there too (then again, I know not).

[SamIam]

So a few months back, I decided the only way to find out the truth was to pull an Enos or Joseph Smith. One day, not wanting to go to church,(my wife was fully active and TBM, and threatened me with divorce if I didn't go, so I attended as a NOM), I went for a drive, found myself a little grove of trees and knelt down...

and had the most amazing experience. I won't go into details because it is sacred to me, and has resolved ALL my concerns about God and the Church, and I personally haven't had any issues with my testimony since. I KNOW the gospel is true.

Your own experience speaks to the solution. It was never about you. Your Father in heaven is more invested in saving his children, your son included, than I think we have the capacity to understand. I have found especially in recent couple of years that pleading with the Lord in behalf of my children opens doors to their changes that I could never open on my own. We also need to understand what is is to suffer for our wayward ones to sense and feel what it is to feel just a little bit of what God feels. However, I know he is more capable and more invested in their salvation than I sometimes recognize. I just try to be available when He needs something special and otherwise be the best father I can be. In time, and it can be a while all works out. We just rebaptised my oldest son last week.

[Erin15]

So now he doesn't want anything to do with going to Church, and I completely BLAME myself for it.

The best thing you can do for him is expose him to as much real testimony from you as possible. Help him feel the spirit and help him recognize that it is the spirit he is feeling. The more often you do that, the better.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Erin15

[Avatar4321]

Some things can only be healed with much fasting and prayer.

Has your son been sealed to you and your spouse?

[Calm]

He is just not interested. I don't know if it's because he's 14 and a teenager, or how much of it is my previous behavior. I just pray that I didn't blow it with him.

There is a good chance you've given him a great gift with your own example of how to find a testimony for your self. He's seen you experience doubt and do something about it because you wanted the truth. He's seen you work through the issues and come out on the faithful side of things in spite of everything you expected to be different. That can't be ignored easily by him. When he is mature enough to work through all the implications of your experience for himself, he may choose to do the same thing and what better experience could you wish for him? Edited November 21, 2012 by calmoriah

[Cobalt-70]

For about the last 10 or so years, I have had a really sore trial of my faith. Just for some background, I was at one time a regular poster on RFM, and on NOM, and would read lots and lots and lots of faith shattering material on all sorts of sites, as well as Apologetic Materials here.

Never could come to a firm conclusion of who was right and who was wrong, and would waiver from atheistic to agnostic to christian agnostic, and all the way back again. I was pretty miserable to say the least because I wanted to KNOW the truth, and I couldn't come to any 'certain conclusion who was right and who was wrong'

So a few months back, I decided the only way to find out the truth was to pull an Enos or Joseph Smith. One day, not wanting to go to church,(my wife was fully active and TBM, and threatened me with divorce if I didn't go, so I attended as a NOM), I went for a drive, found myself a little grove of trees and knelt down...

and had the most amazing experience. I won't go into details because it is sacred to me, and has resolved ALL my concerns about God and the Church, and I personally haven't had any issues with my testimony since. I KNOW the gospel is true.

However, here is the problem. During my NOM/Apostasy period, I would sometimes go on drives with my 14 year old son and VENT about issues I was having with things that were being done at church, and how it was very likely to be just another MAN MADE church, and not from God at all.

So now he doesn't want anything to do with going to Church, and I completely BLAME myself for it.

I have tried to explain what I went through, and that he doesn't need to go through all my struggles and should take it that the Gospel is true, and he says that he has a testimony, though sometimes he is not sure. He says that his main reason for not wanting to go is that it's BORING. (I can't disagree that sometimes it is, that's why I always have an art pad with me)

He is just not interested. I don't know if it's because he's 14 and a teenager, or how much of it is my previous behavior. I just pray that I didn't blow it with him.

Sounds like your son is just a normal teenager. I doubt his exposure to your venting will ultimately have a negative impact. Soon enough, if he hasn't already, he will be facing a real struggle, either because the full story about Mormonism, warts and all, is now readily available on the internet, or because the old men running the church haven't yet fully adapted programs and curriculum to meet the needs of 21st century youth. Youth are leaving the church in droves right now. But your son might have a leg up on other youth, because he saw that you struggled with your faith, but did not abandon it. He might be better off, ultimately, than had you never exposed him to your struggle. Plus, you are now much more credible when you tell him it is "worth it" to stick with the faith even though it is boring and even though faith is hard.

[Senator]

There is a good chance you've given him a great gift with your own example of how to find a testimony for your self. He's seen you experience doubt and do something about it because you wanted the truth. He's seen you work through the issues and come out on the faithful side of things in spite of everything you expected to be different. That can't be ignored easily by him. When he is mature enough to work through all the implications of your experience for himself, he may choose to do the same thing and what better experience could you wish for him?

I couldn't agree more!

You've exposed him to lifes perplexities in a raw, yet genuine manner. What a great example from which to navigate his own life experiences!!

I say; Bravo. Well done!!!

Edited November 21, 2012 by Senator

[Erin15]

the old men running the church haven't yet fully adapted programs and curriculum to meet the needs of 21st century youth.

I've been thinking about your evil-speaking of the lord's anointed for some time, and the conclusion I keep coming to personally is that the needs of the youth are the same today as they were in any other era. They need the same thing youth needed two-thousand years ago. Namely: instruction, example, patient loving correction, and opportunities to feel and recognize the spirit.

I would ask you to elaborate, what exactly is so different about today's youth, and in what way exactly would you have them adapt the programs and cirriculum?

[BlueDreams]

Sounds like your son is just a normal teenager. I doubt his exposure to your venting will ultimately have a negative impact. Soon enough, if he hasn't already, he will be facing a real struggle, either because the full story about Mormonism, warts and all, is now readily available on the internet, or because the old men running the church haven't yet fully adapted programs and curriculum to meet the needs of 21st century youth. Youth are leaving the church in droves right now. But your son might have a leg up on other youth, because he saw that you struggled with your faith, but did not abandon it. He might be better off, ultimately, than had you never exposed him to your struggle. Plus, you are now much more credible when you tell him it is "worth it" to stick with the faith even though it is boring and even though faith is hard.

Cobalt,

I began googling the church and joined this board (among others) at 14 and my faith wasn't stellar. Irreligious is the term that I'd put. Religion, previously, just wasn't all that important to me. Of course I'm one example of a cohort. But I'm a perfect case study on how the internet and the "real story of mormonism" isn't necessarily a real struggle. And the rest of your post is just as credible, IMO.

Pandorian,

Don't worry. Continue to share the faith, seek opportunities to learn with your son, and trust that 14 is too young to decide affirmatively where you'll end up, faith-wise in 10 years.

With luv,

BD

[wenglund]

If it is of any consolation, my guess is that your son, like with many teens, isn't so much going through a faith crisis as he is a value crisis. According to his limited perspective, there are things he values in his life far greater than what he gets from active involvement in the Church.

If so, then the challenge for you as a parent is to help change his value perspective and/or find creative and positive ways to motivate him to stay the course until his values mature and change on their own.

My prayers are with you and all parents of struggling teens.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Garden Girl]

Sounds like your son is just a normal teenager. I doubt his exposure to your venting will ultimately have a negative impact. Soon enough, if he hasn't already, he will be facing a real struggle, either because the full story about Mormonism, warts and all, is now readily available on the internet, or because the old men running the church haven't yet fully adapted programs and curriculum to meet the needs of 21st century youth. Youth are leaving the church in droves right now. But your son might have a leg up on other youth, because he saw that you struggled with your faith, but did not abandon it. He might be better off, ultimately, than had you never exposed him to your struggle. Plus, you are now much more credible when you tell him it is "worth it" to stick with the faith even though it is boring and even though faith is hard.

Hello Cobalt-70

I always have somewhat of a problem understanding members who dismiss the "old men running the Church" as being out of touch with today's times... these "old men" wear the daily mantle of leadership for the Lord's Church... they meet every week in the upper room of the SL temple where they receive inspiration and guidance for the Church... perhaps that is why there is now a "new" curriculum for youth that is being introduced.

Perhaps that is why the Perpetual Education Fund was established... perhaps that is why the perpetual travel fund (or whatever it is called) has been established to assist those who live far from a temple and face excessive costs to be able to attend and receive their endowment... these "old men" have now been joined by individuals such as Uchtdorf, Bednar, Cook, Christofferson, and Andersen... all of whom receive the guidance and inspiration, and revelation for the Church. Youth who choose to succumb to peer pressure and enticements of the "world" rather than listen to their parents, or the leaders (locally, stake, and Church-wide) do so not because there are "old men" running the Church...

GG

[Walden]

"In order to live in my house and receive of my beneficence, we go to Church."

Of course that usually only works well if the children are raised that way. If there was any hint of that,say, from his mother, it might still be possible to use. Or perhaps if he's not that independent yet it could still be used. Of course it never should come to having to actually say that first sentence out loud. It's a matter of "C'mon, we're late for Church and we're waiting for you." Be late a few Sundays until he gets the message. You and his mother must present a united front on this.

You'll need to do the same for Tuesday (or Wednesday) night with the scouts/young men. I guarantee His conversion will incomplete and more difficult without that. Talk to the Bishop/YM President and see if the boys can befriend him especially.

Otherwise there is just infinite patience, love, understanding, positive enticement, prayer and fasting, all of which should be there anyway in addition to laying down the law.

The Lord has commanded you to raise him this way (in the Church) and you can communicate that to him as well at the appropriate time.

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Proverbs 2:26

http://www.lds.org/s...toward?lang=eng

This was the rule in our house, essentially a "when in Rome, do as the Romans" rule in which we were required to attend all Sunday meetings, Tuesday night youth events, daily seminary, etc. I never fought it growing up, and even though my faith was fairly shaky in my youth, I knew that if I lived under my parents roof, I had to abide by their rules.

Though as soon as I got out from under my parent's rule, when I left for college, I began going to church less and less. My parents likely could have pressured me to attend in college, since they were paying my tuition, but they never did. I think by then they realized that I was old enough to make my own choices, and that a testimony could not be forced.

My parent's did "Train up a child in the way he should go," but now that I am older, I have departed from their teachings and in fact am an avowed atheist.