Jump to content
Seriously No Politics ×

David Archuleta's new single about he and (some in?) his family leaving the Faith


Recommended Posts

50 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

My experience is that the most meaningful conversations are spirit to spirit and a useful tool in beginning those conversations is sharing experiences that underpin our faith and discipleship.  That’s the basis of the first invitation.  Everything that follows flows from what is shared in response to that invitation.  The premise of my post was that he had asked me for my thoughts…if he shared that he had received revelation with respect to his current circumstances, I would share with him as directed by the Spirit any thoughts I had as I listened to him share his experience.

This makes sense. Thanks. 

Link to comment
18 hours ago, let’s roll said:

No assumptions…if he had already used the tools in connection with his current circumstances and had received guidance, I trust he would share that experience with me in response to my first question.  
 

If by this you mean you would find out first if he had used them before telling him he should if directed by the Spirit, I am on board that. But you need to take care not to imply he hasn’t or that even you were wondering if he hadn’t.

I have found this out by personal experience when people are giving me health or other advice or what they see as encouragement and leave it open as if I haven’t tried everything I know that exists that is possible for me to do to make myself ‘normal’ (give me enough money to do the rest and I will be able to say I tried everything recommended by doctors and plenty that wasn’t).  The one way it works these days is if it’s something they think is obscure or new and it’s approached as ‘I don’t know if you have heard of this or had a chance to try _____, but I think it might be worth a try’ as that shows me they respect me and believe I am not some loser who just sits around waiting to be rescued by someone else or waiting for something easy to arrive on my doorstep.  It might be being over sensitive but after decades of being treated as a hypochondriac by loved ones and friends who should know better; being scolded for not going to events or doing things they are certain I could do if I wasn’t so overprotective or too concerned with my comfort; or them just not caring whether I showed up or didn’t, no attempt to see if adjustments could make something work better for me as if the only reason I wouldn’t come was because I didn’t want to…yep, I admit I get triggered by small things that remind me of the myriad of past insults (and such things are denigrating me and my efforts to be healthy).

I have felt much the same way when people stepped up to fix my shyness, my daughter’s diabetes, my involvement at church, and several other aspects of my life that sometimes I was even happy with, but they were disapproving of (I come from a family whose primary mode of interaction is helping others, which means sometimes we create problems to fix where there are none).

I imagine someone who is gay in the Church has often had a similar history since many look on homosexual feelings as emotionally unhealthy, etc and something to fix. And if they haven’t been open about their feelings, they will still have heard plenty of comments and advice directed at others, some quite insulting. 

And here I offer unsolicited advice contrary to my advice, lol…

So I think the default when talking to anyone about a long term attribute or condition that you are assuming they want to work on and you have ideas about should be to assume they have already heard it and to first if appropriate ask them to share their experiences before offering your view, especially advice.  Advice imo should never be offered in casual conversation unless it’s a casual thing, something short term, relatively minor, and easy to fix and definitely not something that one would see as life changing unless one has already established that type of relationship and know it is not seen as offensive for one to offer information or advice (and I need to listen to my own advice here as I definitely have the family habit as bad as it gets).

Edited by Calm
Link to comment
27 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

Iran just shot a bunch of missiles and drones at Israel and we are worried about sexual identification. 🤣

It simply amazes me.

I think it all goes back to that “needs” pyramid they talk about sometimes. When you are relatively safe, fed, and able to pursue higher goals, things become problems that would never even in be on the radar for people trying to stay alive.

We are very blessed, and probably also a little cursed, by the life most of us live and the problems we have space and energy to worry about. 😁

Link to comment
On 4/11/2024 at 3:39 PM, bluebell said:

Thank goodness we don’t have to abide byTeddy’s interpretation of the gospel. But there have been prophets and apostles, whose interpretation turned out to be wrong in the past, and the membership was asked to obey their interpretation. We’ve also had profits and apostles, who have tried to put forth their personal interpretations and beliefs as doctrine, and we are still dealing with the fallout of that today.

I don’t have a problem with messy Leaders, who are valuable and biased with their own weaknesses. A messy gospel narrative with us being asked to follow imperfect and sometimes wrong leaders makes sense to me. But it also makes sense to me that we remember and acknowledge that they are also not without bias and doctrinal misunderstanding. 😊

I'm not comfortable declaring interpretations by prophets wrong when they agree with every prophet before him, especially when they concern conditions for worthiness.  It's easier to ignore statements made by apostles that were never validated by the current prophet or were made before their calling.  But I can still acknowledge that prophets can be wrong about things.   Trusting that prophets are revealing the will of God has always been a challenge for believers.

Link to comment
On 4/11/2024 at 10:18 PM, let’s roll said:

 I shared in an earlier post my admiration for David and my wishes for Godspeed in his journey.  If he asked for my thoughts, I’d ask him to share two or three times he felt he was being guided by the Spirit…what were the circumstances, what had he done to seek guidance, why he felt to do so, how he perceived such guidance, how he chose to act on the guidance he received and the impact the experiences had on him.

Nice.  I hope David still holds on to his faith and trust in God and Jesus Christ.  I respect the gay exmos that still believe in God even though they no longer have testimonies of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.  I can understand why they would be bitter towards God and not just the LDS church.  Maybe they can help convince the straight exmos that are atheist or agnostic to reconsider their disbelief.

Link to comment
16 hours ago, Calm said:

There is room for more than one problem in the world and even possible for one person to have more than one all by themselves.  I myself have at least three problems I am aware. ;)

It seems to be a phenomenon across the land on various websites. I guess I'm just afraid the Ballon will go up when I'm 700 miles from Patti and Dad. Carry on. 

Edited by rodheadlee
Link to comment
25 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

It seems to be a phenomenon across the land on various websites. I guess I'm just afraid the Ballon will go up when I'm 700 miles from Patti and Dad. Carry on. 

I can see why it would hit you hard.

Link to comment
31 minutes ago, Calm said:

I can see why it would hit you hard.

Yeah making it from Eureka to Redlands after a nuke attack on our bases would be very difficult. My fuel range is 400 miles. I pass 4 bases that I know of. I guess I should start collecting 5 gallon fuel jugs.

Link to comment
9 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

Yeah making it from Eureka to Redlands after a nuke attack on our bases would be very difficult. My fuel range is 400 miles. I pass 4 bases that I know of. I guess I should start collecting 5 gallon fuel jugs.

Would it help to put some effort into reassuring you that you in all probability will have more than enough warning to get home if things ramp up that high?  Or is this something that always bothers you when away from your family, rarely a desired situation I am guessing for you, especially these days with your dad. 

Link to comment
On 4/14/2024 at 10:38 AM, Calm said:

Would it help to put some effort into reassuring you that you in all probability will have more than enough warning to get home if things ramp up that high?  Or is this something that always bothers you when away from your family, rarely a desired situation I am guessing for you, especially these days with your dad. 

Yes, it would  help. It's only been a fear since Mom died 3 years ago. We can't leave Dad alone so It's rare when Patti and I get to go home to the boat together, or anywhere together for more than a few hours. 

Link to comment
On 4/13/2024 at 6:44 PM, bluebell said:

I think it all goes back to that “needs” pyramid they talk about sometimes. When you are relatively safe, fed, and able to pursue higher goals, things become problems that would never even in be on the radar for people trying to stay alive.

We are very blessed, and probably also a little cursed, by the life most of us live and the problems we have space and energy to worry about. 😁

💯!!

Link to comment
33 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

Yes, it would  help. It's only been a fear since Mom died 3 years ago. We can't leave Dad alone so It's rare when Patti and I get to go home to the boat together, or anywhere together for more than a few hours. 

You are a good son and Patti a wonderful woman. My husband took over so many of my duties with my mom as my fibro got worse and even said he enjoyed it (I never understand how anyone can enjoy shopping and hours in the car, but he does).  It was such a blessing to share the responsibility with him. 

Link to comment
On 4/9/2024 at 11:43 AM, smac97 said:

"Surgical procedures."  The form of eugenics that dares not speak its name.

Eugenics and the practice of transgendering children

If an adult wants to sterilize himself or herself, and if he is mentally competent to consent to the medical procedure, we are still left with the ethical question here.  I think this deserves some discussion.

Further to the foregoing issue:

Four-Year Study on Gender Affirming Care in the UK Warns of the Dangers of 'Gender Transition' for Kids

Quote

Four years ago, the doctors at the National Health Service (NHS) in Great Britain became alarmed about the treatment for children with gender dysphoria at the Gender Identity Development Services (GIDS) at the Tavistock in London. The NHS ordered a thorough study of Tavistock patients which was carried out by Dr. Hillary Cass, former president of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health at NHS.

The review of 9,000 patient records revealed what many professionals have suspected for years.

"This is an area of remarkably weak evidence, and yet results of studies are exaggerated or misrepresented by people on all sides of the debate to support their viewpoint. The reality is that we have no good evidence on the long-term outcomes of interventions to manage gender-related distress," Cass writes in the forward of the review.

Pretty troubling, this.  I think it merits attention.  

I am all for helping people with Gender Dysphoria.  We need to be cautious and circumspect about such things.

Quote

It's a devastating indictment of gender care for kids. The study debunks almost every common myth advanced by the transgender fanatics, including the idea that if kids don't get care, they'll kill themselves.

"Michael Biggs’ work in this field showed that over a period of ten years (between 2010 and 2020), there were four known or suspected suicides among fifteen thousand children and adolescents on the GIDS waiting list. Two of these suicides were in people who were receiving treatment, two were on the waiting list. Every suicide is a tragedy, however, these numbers align with the risks associated with other mental health challenges," writes Stella O'Malley of Genspect, an organization that promotes "high-quality, evidence-based care for gender-nonconforming individuals all around the world."

I have previously objected to the weaponization of suicide in discussions such as these.  I do so again here.

Quote

The report recommends that no one under the age of 18 receive any kind of gender-affirming care, including hormone shots, and that “great caution” should be shown for patients under 25. 

Hmm.  I think this merits attention and discussion.

Quote

The Dispatch:

The report included a variety of recommendations to improve care but concluded that “for most young people, a medical pathway will not be the best way to manage their gender-related distress.” Consequently, the NHS reversed its decade-long practice of prescribing puberty-suppressing hormones (PSH) to children with gender dysphoria—“a marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and assigned gender of at least six months duration, as manifested” in delineated criteria, according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. “We have concluded that there is not enough evidence to support the safety or clinical effectiveness of PSH to make the treatment routinely available at this time,” the NHS said last month. PSH treatment will still be available for participants in clinical trials and at private clinics, although some British lawmakers are now pushing for a ban across the board.

The most important finding of the Cass Report may be that it confirms that gender dysphoria in children has been consistently — perhaps deliberately — misdiagnosed when the feelings of gender confusion could very well be related to some other comorbidity.

I have also noted issues regarding insufficient attention paid to comorbidities.  I do so again here.

Quote

The Atlantic:

When it comes to alleviating gender-related distress, “for the majority of young people, a medical pathway may not be the best way to achieve this.” That conclusion will now inform the creation of new state-provided services in England. These will attempt to consider patients more holistically, acknowledging that their gender distress might be part of a picture that also includes anxiety, autism, obsessive-compulsive disorder, eating disorders, or past trauma.

Again, this merits attention.

Quote

The New York Post points out that "Cass slams the World Professional Association for Transgender Healthcare guidelines for transitioning children as lacking 'developmental rigor and transparency.'" The Post also criticizes "health-care practitioners who 'abandoned normal clinical approaches' in order to start the process of 'transition.'" The Post points out that "the kids should first get screened for neurological conditions, autism and mental illness."

I've heard a lot of things about WPATH.  That this report formally itemizes its shortcomings is welcome data.

Quote

Trans activists will probably come back by quoting results from a 2011 Dutch study that showed positive outcomes for children given puberty blockers. The Cass report debunked much of that study.

The Dispatch:

But the Cass Review highlighted some significant issues with the 2011 study. For example, some of the study participants didn’t complete questionnaires after their treatments designed to assess their improvement, potentially biasing the results towards individuals who decided to come forward with positive outcomes. Plus, all the patients saw psychiatrists or psychologists during the PSH treatment, making it difficult to isolate the positive outcomes to the effects of the drugs.  

What’s more, subsequent research found that young people who experienced gender dysphoria as well as separate psychiatric issues reported no improvement in their well-being after taking PSH. Cass argued in The British Medical Journal that the early research showed success in a “small number of birth-registered males” but that the current population of people seeking gender treatment in the U.K. are largely “birth-registered”—or biological—females, and there is not sufficient evidence showing that that cohort benefits from PSH treatment. “It is unusual for us to give a potentially life-changing treatment to young people and not know what happens to them in adulthood,” Cass told BBC last week.

Hmm.

Thanks,

-Smac

 

Edited by smac97
Link to comment
On 4/13/2024 at 6:22 PM, Calm said:

There is room for more than one problem in the world and even possible for one person to have more than one all by themselves.  I myself have at least three problems I am aware. ;)

Me?  I have only 2.96750325 problems!  So there! :P 

;) :D 

:friends: 

Link to comment
30 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Hmm.  I think this merits attention and discussion.

If the below is the part of the study they are referring to for the hormones, I wouldn’t trust this article and some of the others to be accurate. 
 

https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/clinical-commissioning-policy-gender-affirming-hormones-v2.pdf

what the article claims it says:

Quote

The report recommends that no one under the age of 18 receive any kind of gender-affirming care, including hormone shots, and that “great caution” should be shown for patients under 25. 

what it actually says:

image.thumb.png.4b39573bfe7df091577871d1179f4a64.png

From the Cass report:

Quote
  • For most young people, a medical pathway will not be the best way to manage their gender-related distress. For those young people for whom a medical pathway is clinically indicated, it is not enough to provide this without also addressing wider mental health and/or psychosocially challenging problems.

There is a significant difference between not making something “routinely available” or “for most young people” and never offering it at all.

Quote
  • The option to provide masculinising/feminising hormones from age 16 is available, but the Review recommends extreme caution. There should be a clear clinical rationale for providing hormones at this stage rather than waiting until an individual reaches 18.  Every case considered for medical treatment should be discussed at a national Multi- Disciplinary Team (MDT).

My bold

the report itself:

https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/

Smac, serious question….rather than relying on reports of the report, why not use the report itself?  It didn’t take me more than a few minutes to find it.  And you risk getting way too much bias in reporting if you don’t.

Edited by Calm
Link to comment
7 minutes ago, Calm said:

Smac, serious question….rather than relying on reports of the report, why not use the report itself?  It didn’t take me more than a few minutes to find it.

First, because I wrote up the post while waiting for a hearing to start in a courthouse.  I only had a few minutes.

Second, because I intended to re-visit the article later today.

Third, because I figured there are plenty of people on this board who disagree with me, and so would also assess the article.

Thanks,

-Smac

Link to comment

One part that stood out to me immediately was this:

Quote

The reality is that we have no good evidence on the long-term outcomes of interventions to manage gender-related distress...

Because, quite frankly, we do have quite a few studies showing a majority of positive long-term outcomes of gender affirming care, from several different countries.  IIRC, there was even a metanalysis done about 3 years ago on several of the long-term outcome studies.  It seemed this statement could only come from someone who was ignorant, or dishonest.  Turns out, it's neither.  It's just transphobic media propaganda massaging the message.  The actual statement which the "key finding" blurb is taken from and the media misrepresents by removing context is specifically limited to only people who have accessed GIDS (ref: page 33 of the Final Report).

Link to comment
4 minutes ago, Doctor Steuss said:

One part that stood out to me immediately was this:

Because, quite frankly, we do have quite a few studies showing a majority of positive long-term outcomes of gender affirming care, from several different countries.  IIRC, there was even a metanalysis done about 3 years ago on several of the long-term outcome studies.  It seemed this statement could only come from someone who was ignorant, or dishonest.  Turns out, it's neither.  It's just transphobic media propaganda massaging the message.  The actual statement which the "key finding" blurb is taken from and the media misrepresents by removing context is specifically limited to only people who have accessed GIDS (ref: page 33 of the Final Report).

This.

Itching ears and all that.

Link to comment
38 minutes ago, smac97 said:

First, because I wrote up the post while waiting for a hearing to start in a courthouse.  I only had a few minutes.

Second, because I intended to re-visit the article later today.

Third, because I figured there are plenty of people on this board who disagree with me, and so would also assess the article.

Thanks,

-Smac

You're a lawyer!?! 👹👺 How can we possibly trust anything you say?? 😜

Link to comment
On 4/11/2024 at 2:01 PM, The Nehor said:

It was eye-opening when I realized that for many the primary difference between God and Satan is that God is going to win. ... 

And another difference is that God is much better at playing "the long game," and His timetable is much, much different than Satan's, or than that of us myopic mortals.  While we are certain that if whatever changes we believe should or must happen by a certain "date certain" haven't happened by that date, the only remaining alternative is to throw in the towel, God works in a much different way: "God moves in a mysterious way His wonders to perform.  He plants his footsteps in the sea and rides upon the storm."  William Cowper, "God Moves in a Mysterious Way," Hymns of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (1985), no. 285.

And of course, we're all familiar with Isaiah 55:8-9:

Quote

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

I really like this, from Joseph Grenny, in relation to Jacob's Allegory of the Olive Tree.  https://latterdaysaintmag.com/jacobs-answer-to-parental-despair/, this and all other links last accessed April 18, 2024.  The compression of the story fools us into believing that all of the events it describes happen in relatively short order when that is not the case.  One of the things he mentions is that olive trees are notoriously slow-growing and slow-maturing.  Reportedly, there are olive trees alive today that were alive in the Savior's time.

Brother Grenny notes:

Quote

 

One of [God's] goals is to help me develop the muscle of faith. Persevering with hope through life’s heavy disappointments is part of the regimen. As distance is measured in meters and weight is measured in grams, faith is measured in years. Not minutes. Not hours. Years. Sometimes decades. Or, in God’s case, millennia. The primary godly creative capacity He is training me for is measured by how long I can hold a vision of righteous longings while no evidence yet exists of their fulfillment. 

  • How long can I believe I will one day stand in a celestial room with my entire posterity when few share my beliefs?
  • How long can I embrace my LGBTQ+ loved-one while simultaneously embracing beliefs that contradict some of their choices?
  • How long can I imagine a saint in a sibling who is a habitual sinner?

 

As much as I believe what happens and what we do here in mortality has an impact on eternity, this is not the only place, the only time, and the only circumstance under which what we do will have an impact on eternity.  As Joseph Smith said:

Quote

When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the gospel—you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave.

History of the Church, 6:306–7; from a discourse given by Joseph Smith on Apr. 7, 1844, in Nauvoo, Illinois; reported by Wilford Woodruff, Willard Richards, Thomas Bullock, and William Clayton, as quoted in Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith (2007) at 268, accessed at https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-22?lang=eng.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...