General Conference Rumors

[Peacefully]

5 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

I don't know.  I don't think that a major change announced without the president of the church being present means that he hasn't approved it.

I agree. If a change is needed, I think Pres. Nelson could approve and then Pres. Eyring or Oaks could announce. 

[Teancum]

On 9/26/2023 at 1:55 PM, rodheadlee said:

No but we pay post expenses. It's the only way we can contribute. 

Post what kind of expenses?

[Teancum]

On 9/26/2023 at 2:11 PM, rodheadlee said:

Minus taxes and fuel. Fuel is a major expense. 

Ah ok.  Not food, housing, etc. ?

[mfbukowski]

On 9/26/2023 at 12:13 PM, CV75 said:

Is tithe an expense? What a dilemma! I cannot pay it without deducting it first.

It's between you and God, and no one else.

[halconero]

On 9/28/2023 at 9:13 PM, bluebell said:

I thought you were going to predict that the church was going to start putting restaurants in chapels. I could probably get behind that.

If they can just put AC in British chapels I would start paying 15% tithing. It’s not a Church thing - Euro’s just like to be contrarian and think that dying in a heatwave is some sort of moral statement on climate change. Meanwhile, it’s just a sea of heat-dozed faces and paper fans made from program sheets from my view on the stand.

*murmur* *murmur* *murmur*

[CV75]

4 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

It's between you and God, and no one else.

So are my jokes  

[mfbukowski]

8 hours ago, Navidad said:

I was trying inject more humor into a conversation that was already replete with it (humor). Humor, nothing more. BTW, as an aside, as a "faithful nonmember" I would happily relate LDS beliefs to an LDS audience without comment or criticsm. I have done it many times over the years when teaching a variety of religion or theology courses.  As a professor of psychology, I faithfully taught many a belief that I personally did not hold or "accept." As a historian I have to teach many a viewpoint that I may not personally hold. It isn't that hard! 😄 In faith, there is so much more to teach than doctrine. Have you ever read any of my sacrament talks? I would love to know what you find objectionable in them. Or my wife's. Take care.

These are YOUR words and do not limit subject matter or taking a bishop's scarce time vetting talks before they are given.

You say we could "read your talks", implying they were actually readily accessible.

You say "there is so much more In faith, there is so much more to teach than doctrine."

THAT is exactly the problem.

In teaching in talks, one typically closes with their testimony affirming their personal belief in the principles taught.

YES "In faith there is so much more to teach than doctrine.", and that is what you CANNOT teach, without a testimony.  Anyone can read to Buddhists the beliefs of Buddhists out of a book, but why?  Would that induce stronger faith in Buddhists? Would that be enlarging their understanding at all?

I hope you take this as intended, simply as instructional, as your comment was simply a joke.

[mfbukowski]

9 hours ago, Navidad said:

Have you ever read any of my sacrament talks? I would love to know what you find objectionable in them.

Of Course not.

You know that- you just told us only you have access to them.

Have you read mine?

Please send me all of them.  I will be glad to do a peer review.

But I suppose that was also a joke, right.

[Navidad]

10 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

These are YOUR words and do not limit subject matter or taking a bishop's scarce time vetting talks before they are given.

You say we could "read your talks", implying they were actually readily accessible.

You say "there is so much more In faith, there is so much more to teach than doctrine."

THAT is exactly the problem.

In teaching in talks, one typically closes with their testimony affirming their personal belief in the principles taught.

YES "In faith there is so much more to teach than doctrine.", and that is what you CANNOT teach, without a testimony.  Anyone can read to Buddhists the beliefs of Buddhists out of a book, but why?  Would that induce stronger faith in Buddhists? Would that be enlarging their understanding at all?

I hope you take this as intended, simply as instructional, as your comment was simply a joke.

I never failed to end a talk or a testimony, (which I also gave on many Fast Sundays - my wife probably gave more even than I did) without sharing my testimony and she hers. Not once. I affirmed my personal belief in everything I taught. Do you realize how many things we faith and believe in common? In my testimony I included sharing my beliefs about the LDS church, about members of the church, and about our leaders. I shared my belief in the atonement, Christ, and our shared Christianity. By the way, a few months ago when our bishop came to our home to outline his restrictions for us, he explicitly stated that we could continue to give testimonies on Fast Sundays, but we would no longer be asked to give Sacrament talks. Does that surprise you? You seem to approve of our new bishop's decisions.  Do you approve of that one?

At no point did I, nor would I have pointed out our differences in a testimony. First, that wouldn't be a testimony and second there would be no point to that. One thing about our ward, it is small, but because of our location and history, we always have visitors. I can't tell you how many talks I have given to those visitors over the years, especially to family groups. To my knowledge, no one has ever been offended by anything I have said. Just two weeks ago I gave a two hour talk to an Allred family reunion. We went late into the night and had a wonderful time.

You seemed to me to be negative about my Sacrament talks without, to my knowledge ever having heard or read one. My point in asking you if you had read my talks was a pragmatic one. How could you dismiss or scorn what you had never read? My question presumed the answer was "no." I was correct in that, was I not? My attempt at humor in my original comment was in the spirit of many of those already posted on this thread. I don't remember you rebuking anyone else's comments that were made with that intent. Just mine. It is the great limitation of a forum like this . . . we never really get to know each other. That is a shame.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Navidad

[Navidad]

I trust all my LDS friends have a wonderful and blessed General Conference weekend. May you find the talks inspiring, instructional, and insightful. Please enjoy this special time.

[Chum]

The Church puts skin in the game and announces it is spearheading a US program to aid incoming refugees. The Church is partnering with experienced faith-based and other qualified agencies to help secure necessities for families who have fled critically dangerous living conditions. Church members can receive blessings thru a variety of opportunities, including donating funds and supplies but especially thru serving refugees directly with their time and skills.

[mfbukowski]

16 hours ago, Teancum said:

Post what kind of expenses?

It is my opinion, when one is self employed, say with a home office, obviously "the business" will have certain expenses that are not part necessarily of the household expenses. So one would have to, theoretically, figure what portion of the electric bill, for example, is "a business expense", how much of your mortgage payments etc. are allocated to the business etc. etc.

It is not easy obviously to do this justly, and between you and the Lord, and not, in my opinion, anyone else.

I suppose you could NOT take that into account, but I think it is possible with prayer, to draw a line somewhere.  He IS our Father after all, and for me, it is easier to think of Him as my Dad, to whom I owe everything, INCLUDING "my" business, which I would not have, if it were not for him.

It ain't easy. 🤔

[mfbukowski]

16 hours ago, halconero said:

If they can just put AC in British chapels I would start paying 15% tithing. It’s not a Church thing - Euro’s just like to be contrarian and think that dying in a heatwave is some sort of moral statement on climate change. Meanwhile, it’s just a sea of heat-dozed faces and paper fans made from program sheets from my view on the stand.

*murmur* *murmur* *murmur*

Most older houses in California are built without central heating or AC.

"You don't need it". And it was true.

Some rooms, maybe, needed AC in a window, or an area heater of some kind, or you just opened a window or closed it morning and evening as needed.  Gentile breezes off the ocean reached far inland.

Now there are houses in the desert, and even the beach is not immune to 100 degree F.

If you don't have a HVAC system, you might as well live in a tent.

And many do

(BUT not for that reason) 

Another day in paradise!

 

[Stargazer]

On 9/26/2023 at 6:11 PM, 10THAmendment said:

I have a friend of a friend who is adamant that there is a tithing change coming this weekend. It supposedly has to do with how 10% is defined (pre-expense vs. post expense).
 

Has anyone heard this or any other rumor? 

I'm too far from the church center to hear anything. 

But to me, 10% was always calculated on my increase, meaning my gross income minus involuntary deductions (which I considered to be my "cost of doing business"). Involuntary deductions being federal income tax, social security FICA deduction, and my pension contributions (I worked for the government and could not opt out of their retirement plan). Since I knew, unless I died before retirement, that I would probably be paid back more in SS than I ever paid in, I intended to pay tithing on my social security income when that time came. And I also tithe my pension receipts, since I didn't tithe my contributions and would likely receive more than I ever paid in, assuming I live that long. So it all evens out.

[rodheadlee]

19 hours ago, Teancum said:

Ah ok.  Not food, housing, etc. ?

No, that would be 0 income at today's grocery prices.

[MustardSeed]

In light of recent financial controversy I predict GC will double down on the importance of sealings between men and women and the critical need for more temples. 
 

Pretend I wrote this yesterday 😅

[Teancum]

4 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

It is my opinion, when one is self employed, say with a home office, obviously "the business" will have certain expenses that are not part necessarily of the household expenses. So one would have to, theoretically, figure what portion of the electric bill, for example, is "a business expense", how much of your mortgage payments etc. are allocated to the business etc. etc.

It is not easy obviously to do this justly, and between you and the Lord, and not, in my opinion, anyone else.

I suppose you could NOT take that into account, but I think it is possible with prayer, to draw a line somewhere.  He IS our Father after all, and for me, it is easier to think of Him as my Dad, to whom I owe everything, INCLUDING "my" business, which I would not have, if it were not for him.

It ain't easy. 🤔

Someone who is self employed or owns a business should would first look Gross Revenue less valid business expenses to arrive at net income.  Some years could be a net loss.  That net income would be similar to wages for a salaried employee.

Then should one deduct reasonable living expenses?  Taxes?

For a business owner that is in a partnership or S Corp (Pass through) do they pay tithing on their share of net profits if those profits are not distributed?  I would, and did not, from the partnership that I am part of. I paid tithing on whatever was actually distributed to me annually.

[bluebell]

5 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Someone who is self employed or owns a business should would first look Gross Revenue less valid business expenses to arrive at net income.  Some years could be a net loss.  That net income would be similar to wages for a salaried employee.

Then should one deduct reasonable living expenses?  Taxes?

For a business owner that is in a partnership or S Corp (Pass through) do they pay tithing on their share of net profits if those profits are not distributed?  I would, and did not, from the partnership that I am part of. I paid tithing on whatever was actually distributed to me annually.

My husband owns two businesses.  All income from the businesses goes into our business account. We draw out of that account (pay ourselves) a set amount of money and deposit it into our personal account twice a month.  That is what we tithe on.  It's a simple and easy way to do it.

[Teancum]

19 minutes ago, bluebell said:

My husband owns two businesses.  All income from the businesses goes into our business account. We draw out of that account (pay ourselves) a set amount of money and deposit it into our personal account twice a month.  That is what we tithe on.  It's a simple and easy way to do it.

Sure.  I agree.  You pay on what you take out of the business.

[mfbukowski]

13 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Sure.  I agree.  You pay on what you take out of the business.

Agree also. Simplest way.

[mfbukowski]

44 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Then should one deduct reasonable living expenses?  Taxes?

If I had a couple of hundred grand in the bank it wouldn't matter, BUT I might go to the storehouse if I needed it, after talking to the Bishop.

I think of taxes as always an expense, but agree there are reasons not to.

In CA right now gas taxes have pushed to the EDGE of $8 per gallon!!!  Some are a little OVER that, the lowest are like $5.90.

Sounds more like theft than legit taxes to me.

And some property taxes are discriminatory imo.

But I ain't goin' there!

[MiserereNobis]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

If I had a couple of hundred grand in the bank it wouldn't matter, BUT I might go to the storehouse if I needed it, after talking to the Bishop.

I think of taxes as always an expense, but agree there are reasons not to.

In CA right now gas taxes have pushed to the EDGE of $8 per gallon!!!  Some are a little OVER that, the lowest are like $5.90.

Sounds more like theft than legit taxes to me.

And some property taxes are discriminatory imo.

But I ain't goin' there!

You used to be a radical, now you’re just a grumpy old boomer 😛

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

If I had a couple of hundred grand in the bank it wouldn't matter, BUT I might go to the storehouse if I needed it, after talking to the Bishop.

I think of taxes as always an expense, but agree there are reasons not to.

In CA right now gas taxes have pushed to the EDGE of $8 per gallon!!!  Some are a little OVER that, the lowest are like $5.90.

Sounds more like theft than legit taxes to me.

And some property taxes are discriminatory imo.

But I ain't goin' there!

 

Don't hate me, but drove through South Jordan, Utah today and saw gas for $4.14.

[Stargazer]

51 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

 

Don't hate me, but drove through South Jordan, Utah today and saw gas for $4.14.

Soon, gas in the US will be more expensive than it is here in UK. Actually, that may be the case already. I'll have to check.

ETA: Checked and we're currently $7.15 per gallon.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Stargazer

[Malc]

6 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Soon, gas in the US will be more expensive than it is here in UK. Actually, that may be the case already. I'll have to check.

ETA: Checked and we're currently $7.15 per gallon.

Yeah, but how far can you drive in a country that's the size of a postage stamp? 🙃