Converting to the LDS Faith

[MiserereNobis]

Did you click on it thinking I was converting? Clickbait!  

I poked around briefly on the internet to see the normal process for conversion to your church and thought I'd see what you all thought. It appears that a potential convert takes a series of lessons (6?) from the missionaries and then is baptized. Prior to baptism, they commit to the word of wisdom and chastity. Any other commitments? Then there is an interview with another set of missionaries to determine worthiness and/or level of commitment. The convert has to attend church at least once.

It seems like a convert could basically only interact with the missionaries and learn very little before joining your church. Is this accurate?

Adult converts to Catholicism spend months in a class with other converts preparing. My situation was slightly different, as I had one-on-one classes with the priest, but we did meet for quite some time before my baptism. We covered the entire catechism, which is a pretty hefty book. There was no formal interview, but he pretty much knew my level of knowledge and commitment because of our weekly meetings. Sometimes our meetings were actually hikes or sitting down together at a local brewpub. I remember covering the Marian dogmas while sitting on a ridge after a good hike looking out over the valley.

How often have you seen new members struggle with being surprised at church doctrines, practices, or history that they were not aware of prior to baptism? My guess is that that happens a lot less in Catholicism simply because Catholicism has been such a player on the world stage that the broad outlines of its history and doctrines are known simply through our culture (the crusades and inquisitions are covered in high school history classes, as an example). I see Dario was unaware of Adam-God, but I certainly don't think Adam-God needs to be discussed prior to baptism because it is not currently a doctrine. I could see it, though, surprise a convert.

Thanks for your thoughts!

[CV75]

19 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Did you click on it thinking I was converting? Clickbait!  

I poked around briefly on the internet to see the normal process for conversion to your church and thought I'd see what you all thought. It appears that a potential convert takes a series of lessons (6?) from the missionaries and then is baptized. Prior to baptism, they commit to the word of wisdom and chastity. Any other commitments? Then there is an interview with another set of missionaries to determine worthiness and/or level of commitment. The convert has to attend church at least once.

It seems like a convert could basically only interact with the missionaries and learn very little before joining your church. Is this accurate?

Adult converts to Catholicism spend months in a class with other converts preparing. My situation was slightly different, as I had one-on-one classes with the priest, but we did meet for quite some time before my baptism. We covered the entire catechism, which is a pretty hefty book. There was no formal interview, but he pretty much knew my level of knowledge and commitment because of our weekly meetings. Sometimes our meetings were actually hikes or sitting down together at a local brewpub. I remember covering the Marian dogmas while sitting on a ridge after a good hike looking out over the valley.

How often have you seen new members struggle with being surprised at church doctrines, practices, or history that they were not aware of prior to baptism? My guess is that that happens a lot less in Catholicism simply because Catholicism has been such a player on the world stage that the broad outlines of its history and doctrines are known simply through our culture (the crusades and inquisitions are covered in high school history classes, as an example). I see Dario was unaware of Adam-God, but I certainly don't think Adam-God needs to be discussed prior to baptism because it is not currently a doctrine. I could see it, though, surprise a convert.

Thanks for your thoughts!

The missionaries use this: 12: How Do I Prepare People for Baptism and Confirmation? (churchofjesuschrist.org)

I would say whether members struggle and thrive or anything in-between follows a bell-curve, just as with general Church membership. 

[bluebell]

37 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Did you click on it thinking I was converting? Clickbait!  

I poked around briefly on the internet to see the normal process for conversion to your church and thought I'd see what you all thought. It appears that a potential convert takes a series of lessons (6?) from the missionaries and then is baptized. Prior to baptism, they commit to the word of wisdom and chastity. Any other commitments? Then there is an interview with another set of missionaries to determine worthiness and/or level of commitment. The convert has to attend church at least once.

It seems like a convert could basically only interact with the missionaries and learn very little before joining your church. Is this accurate?

Adult converts to Catholicism spend months in a class with other converts preparing. My situation was slightly different, as I had one-on-one classes with the priest, but we did meet for quite some time before my baptism. We covered the entire catechism, which is a pretty hefty book. There was no formal interview, but he pretty much knew my level of knowledge and commitment because of our weekly meetings. Sometimes our meetings were actually hikes or sitting down together at a local brewpub. I remember covering the Marian dogmas while sitting on a ridge after a good hike looking out over the valley.

How often have you seen new members struggle with being surprised at church doctrines, practices, or history that they were not aware of prior to baptism? My guess is that that happens a lot less in Catholicism simply because Catholicism has been such a player on the world stage that the broad outlines of its history and doctrines are known simply through our culture (the crusades and inquisitions are covered in high school history classes, as an example). I see Dario was unaware of Adam-God, but I certainly don't think Adam-God needs to be discussed prior to baptism because it is not currently a doctrine. I could see it, though, surprise a convert.

Thanks for your thoughts!

I kind of agree with the implication of this post, in that I think it can be too easy to become a member of the church and I think that's a large part of why we have so many less active members.

[CA Steve]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

It seems like a convert could basically only interact with the missionaries and learn very little before joining your church. Is this accurate?

I baptized over a hundred people on my South American mission. Given the activity rates I have seen for the country I was in, I expect only 10 of them to still be active, at best. My mission president, who would become a general authority, had a program where we would challenge contacts to be baptized as soon as possible, not even waiting for all the discussions to be finished. Baptisms skyrocketed as did wards and stakes, but we were not converting people to the church we were baptizing people because they liked the missionaries.

 

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

How often have you seen new members struggle with being surprised at church doctrines, practices, or history that they were not aware of prior to baptism?

So the problem with new members isn't, initially, that they encounter information about the church they didn't know. The problem with new converts is that many of them have been brought into the church by a missionary who is only around for a few months. If the new convert has not had time to integrate into the ward before the missionary leaves, many converts just don't stick around. We need to spend more time making a new convert feel part of the ward or branch they are in before baptism. That will ensure greater rates of retention. We should also spend more time teaching a convert what it is they are getting into by being baptized. Merely telling a person to pray about the Book of Mormon then asking them to join the church is not, in my opinion, a very honest way of converting people to Mormonism.

 

[Dario_M]

2 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Did you click on it thinking I was converting? Clickbait!  

I poked around briefly on the internet to see the normal process for conversion to your church and thought I'd see what you all thought. It appears that a potential convert takes a series of lessons (6?) from the missionaries and then is baptized. Prior to baptism, they commit to the word of wisdom and chastity. Any other commitments? Then there is an interview with another set of missionaries to determine worthiness and/or level of commitment. The convert has to attend church at least once.

It seems like a convert could basically only interact with the missionaries and learn very little before joining your church. Is this accurate?

Adult converts to Catholicism spend months in a class with other converts preparing. My situation was slightly different, as I had one-on-one classes with the priest, but we did meet for quite some time before my baptism. We covered the entire catechism, which is a pretty hefty book. There was no formal interview, but he pretty much knew my level of knowledge and commitment because of our weekly meetings. Sometimes our meetings were actually hikes or sitting down together at a local brewpub. I remember covering the Marian dogmas while sitting on a ridge after a good hike looking out over the valley.

How often have you seen new members struggle with being surprised at church doctrines, practices, or history that they were not aware of prior to baptism? My guess is that that happens a lot less in Catholicism simply because Catholicism has been such a player on the world stage that the broad outlines of its history and doctrines are known simply through our culture (the crusades and inquisitions are covered in high school history classes, as an example). I see Dario was unaware of Adam-God, but I certainly don't think Adam-God needs to be discussed prior to baptism because it is not currently a doctrine. I could see it, though, surprise a convert.

Thanks for your thoughts!

This is an amazing topic. Thank you so much @MiserereNobis.

This needs to be spoken of, a lot more.

Wel...on the moment i got baptized i have made some promisses i whas not aware of unfortunatly. 

Apparently I promised that i would receive the priesterhood as soon as posible after my baptizing (on that time i didn't know that i needed to do that). I promised that i would get an endowment and needed to wear magic underwear (garments) after my baptizing. (whas i also not aware of. That i needed to do that). I promised that i would marry a woman in the temple after my baptizing (Also...not aware of that at all.) Apparently i also promised that i would spend 2 hours in the church every sunday insted of 1 hour after my baptizing. (I didn't know that as well that i needed to do that and that i have promised that on my baptize.)  Etc. 

 

And now i am having problems with all these promisses that i have (not) made i find. But the church thinks differend about that and find that i have made all those promisses. 

I don't wanna do all these thinks. I don't wanna receive the priesterhood (not yet). I don't wanna have an endowment. I don't wanna wear a garment. I don't wanna marry a woman in the temple i'm gay. And i wanna spend 1 hour in the church not 2 hours. 

Unfortunatly my church sometimes gives me a hard thime over all of those issieus. And people judge me about that. I wish that they would understand how difficult this is for me. And how lonely i feel because i get so much judgments. Makes me cry a lot. When i'm alone.

For the rest the LDS church is okay and i really vibe with the church. 

 

Edited March 11 by Dario_M

[CV75]

17 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

This is an amazing topic. Thank you so much @MiserereNobis.

This needs to be spoken of, a lot more.

Wel...on the moment i got baptized i have made some promisses i whas not aware of unfortunatly. 

Aparently I promised that i would receive the priesterhood as soon as posible after my baptizing (on that time i didn't know that i needed to do that). I promised that i would get an endowment and needed to wear magic underwear (garmerments) after my baptizing. (whas i also not aware of. That i needed to do that). I promissed that i would marry a woman in the temple after my baptizing (Also...not aware of that at all.) Aparently i also prommised that i would spend 2 hours in the church on sunday insted of 1 hour after my baptizing. (I didn't know that as well that i needed to do that and that i have promised that on my baptize.)  Etc. 

 

And now i am having problems with all these promissis that i have (not) made i find. But the church thinks differend about that and find that i have made all those promissed. 

I don't wanna do all these thinks. I don't wanna receive the priesterhood (not yet). I don't wanna have an ebdowment. I don't wanna wear a garment. I don't wanna marry a woman in the temple i'm gay. And i wanna spend 1 hour in the church not 2 hours. 

Unfortunatly my church sometimes gives me a hard that over all those issieus. And people judge me about that. I wish that they would understand how difficult this is for me. And how lonely i feel because i get so much judgements. Makes me cry a lot. 

For the rest the LDS church is okay and i realky vibe with it. 

You are not alone. Some lifelong members have these same issues. Everyone needs to decide what to do as the walk through / bump into life, with the Lord.

[MustardSeed]

Fwiw I’ve been a member my whole life, I’m old, and I never heard of Adam is God theory until the recent thread. It’s not common knowledge that people believe in it.  I don’t think it matters, because it never mattered before and it isn’t doctrine now. 
Imo we all are like “converts” in that we need to consistently learn and grow, and then that we will discover things we did not know before, and we will have to contend with that new information.  I have no doubt that it is true that the 18-year-old Missionaries out there that are baptizing are going to in some cases fail to share information that might otherwise preclude somebody from choosing baptism. These are 18-year-old boys they have a remarkable influence and many of them are led by the spirit. I have no doubt. But look at Dario’s situation- he basically leads with his sexuality in many of the threads here so it’s hard to believe that the missionaries teaching him didn’t pick up on this very important aspect of his life and address it had on before baptism. Sometimes that takes life experience to feel comfortable having those conversations. I’ve had Missionaries in my home that were monster spiritual guides, and then I’ve had others. We’ve all met them.
 

Here’s an extreme thought. Maybe we grow little by little and maybe we shouldn’t weed out people because of these limitations. Maybe everyone should be welcome? Maybe we should make room for every level of faith, participation, etc. in our chapels. I know that’s extreme.

Edited March 11 by MustardSeed

[2BizE]

I completely agree that converts to Mormonism are generally ill prepared and do not develop sufficient knowledge and readiness prior to baptism.  I wish we had a different conversion model that placed more importance on preparation and development prior to baptism.  Our current model uses 18 year old kids and high pressure tactics to make the count of baptisms a higher priority than deep conversion.

[MustardSeed]

4 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

I completely agree that converts to Mormonism are generally ill prepared and do not develop sufficient knowledge and readiness prior to baptism.  I wish we had a different conversion model that placed more importance on preparation and development prior to baptism.  Our current model uses 18 year old kids and high pressure tactics to make the count of baptisms a higher priority than deep conversion.

I think deep conversion takes a long time.  Life experience brings faith building.  Some of us life long members are still on that path. 

[3DOP]

2 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Did you click on it thinking I was converting? Clickbait!  

I poked around briefly on the internet to see the normal process for conversion to your church and thought I'd see what you all thought. It appears that a potential convert takes a series of lessons (6?) from the missionaries and then is baptized. Prior to baptism, they commit to the word of wisdom and chastity. Any other commitments? Then there is an interview with another set of missionaries to determine worthiness and/or level of commitment. The convert has to attend church at least once.

It seems like a convert could basically only interact with the missionaries and learn very little before joining your church. Is this accurate?

Adult converts to Catholicism spend months in a class with other converts preparing. My situation was slightly different, as I had one-on-one classes with the priest, but we did meet for quite some time before my baptism. We covered the entire catechism, which is a pretty hefty book. There was no formal interview, but he pretty much knew my level of knowledge and commitment because of our weekly meetings. Sometimes our meetings were actually hikes or sitting down together at a local brewpub. I remember covering the Marian dogmas while sitting on a ridge after a good hike looking out over the valley.

How often have you seen new members struggle with being surprised at church doctrines, practices, or history that they were not aware of prior to baptism? My guess is that that happens a lot less in Catholicism simply because Catholicism has been such a player on the world stage that the broad outlines of its history and doctrines are known simply through our culture (the crusades and inquisitions are covered in high school history classes, as an example). I see Dario was unaware of Adam-God, but I certainly don't think Adam-God needs to be discussed prior to baptism because it is not currently a doctrine. I could see it, though, surprise a convert.

Thanks for your thoughts!

You might not remember him, Miserere. There was a knowledgable Catholic who was here around ten years ago who became LDS for a while. But he gave signs that he was on his way. 

All of your posts are "clickbait" for me. And especially a thread. But no, as to a potential disclosure of conversion. I cannot remember what prompted our Catholic convert to reconsider.

I remember a Catholic priest who converted and came back because he became disenchanted with the LDS position on abortion. But I would suggest that if a particular teaching or practice becomes a stumbling block....on my phone, unexpected company...might finish later

[bluebell]

45 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

I completely agree that converts to Mormonism are generally ill prepared and do not develop sufficient knowledge and readiness prior to baptism.  I wish we had a different conversion model that placed more importance on preparation and development prior to baptism.  Our current model uses 18 year old kids and high pressure tactics to make the count of baptisms a higher priority than deep conversion.

I think the hard part in finding a good model for conversion is that everyone is different.  For some, the current model works great.  For others, not so much.  And like MS said, most of us are members for decades before we become fully converted.  It's hard to always know when someone is ready to make covenants and be responsible for them.

Especially if we look at the issue from the perspective of the parable of the sower (or rather, the parable of the different types of soil).

I would support prospective members needing to come to church and stay for the entire time more than just once (unless there were extenuating circumstances).  I feel like most of the time, if someone is praying, reading the BOM, and consistently coming to church then they are ready.

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

This is an amazing topic. Thank you so much @MiserereNobis.

This needs to be spoken of, a lot more.

Wel...on the moment i got baptized i have made some promisses i whas not aware of unfortunatly. 

Apparently I promised that i would receive the priesterhood as soon as posible after my baptizing (on that time i didn't know that i needed to do that). I promised that i would get an endowment and needed to wear magic underwear (garments) after my baptizing. (whas i also not aware of. That i needed to do that). I promised that i would marry a woman in the temple after my baptizing (Also...not aware of that at all.) Apparently i also promised that i would spend 2 hours in the church every sunday insted of 1 hour after my baptizing. (I didn't know that as well that i needed to do that and that i have promised that on my baptize.)  Etc. 

 

And now i am having problems with all these promisses that i have (not) made i find. But the church thinks differend about that and find that i have made all those promisses. 

I don't wanna do all these thinks. I don't wanna receive the priesterhood (not yet). I don't wanna have an endowment. I don't wanna wear a garment. I don't wanna marry a woman in the temple i'm gay. And i wanna spend 1 hour in the church not 2 hours. 

Unfortunatly my church sometimes gives me a hard thime over all of those issieus. And people judge me about that. I wish that they would understand how difficult this is for me. And how lonely i feel because i get so much judgments. Makes me cry a lot. When i'm alone.

For the rest the LDS church is okay and i really vibe with the church. 

 

Other than attending the full two hours of church, I don't believe that you promised any of the other things.  I know that some posters on here have made you feel like you did, and I have no doubt that members of your ward are pushing you to receive the priesthood and eventually be endowed, but I don't think you promised to do any of those things when you were baptized.

Also, I know you aren't aware but please don't call them 'magic underwear'.  We consider them a sacred reminder of Christ and our covenantal relationship with Him and not something to make light of. 

 

[Navidad]

I believe it is somehow and to some degree related to the question in this thread - I am constantly surprised at, and do not understand the huge variance between the Mexican census data and what the church reports regarding membership in Mexico. The church says that Mexico has the highest number of members after the United States and that membership grew 30% from 2011 to 2021. The church claims 1,498,296 members here. The latest (2020) census shows somewhere around 400,000 (I don't have the exact number in front of me) who self-profess to be LDS (excluding Mormon fundamentalists). That is quite a variance. I have no idea if that kind of a gap is common in countries. The census data is supposed to include 5 years of age and up. The church records certainly include children under eight who have received a blessing. Isn't that correct?  The Catholic population is something down to around 73%, the lowest ever. I believe the Protestant, including Pentecostals (which isn't always an accurate thing to do) is around 11% in 2020. It is the Pentecostals who are booming. The data is interesting, yet simply doesn't make much sense to me.

[rpn]

2 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Unfortunately my church sometimes gives me a hard time over all of those issues. And people judge me about that. I wish that they would understand how difficult this is for me. And how lonely i feel because i get so much judgments. Makes me cry a lot. When i'm alone.

For the rest the LDS church is okay and i really vibe with the church. 

 

Missionaries are supposed to teach the gospel basics.   And yes they are supposed to in the course of the baptismal interview make it clear what they are committing to through baptism.   What is required for baptism is a knowledge of and commitment to do their personal best to keep those commandments (BTW, temple ordinances and higher laws taught there, even priesthood ordination, are separate new covenants that are performed in sequence, and are a gateway to all that the Lord has, but not directly related to nor commanded by baptism.)   It takes a while sometimes for people to be ready for additional responsibility.   But it is also an important fact that baptism and confirmation of the gift of Holy Ghost to guide those who are baptized, can make getting to a desire to live discipleship and additional laws easier, more rich, more desirable. 

OP, just keep learning, keep desiring to know Him and His teachings, keep doing your personal best, keep living a live of the best discipleship of Jesus Christ you can.    You will be okay.

[Hamilton Porter]

Varies mission-to-mission. On my mission, church twice is the requirement.

But I think the Church follows the New Testament model of baptizing on the spot.

[JLHPROF]

4 hours ago, 2BizE said:

I completely agree that converts to Mormonism are generally ill prepared and do not develop sufficient knowledge and readiness prior to baptism.  I wish we had a different conversion model that placed more importance on preparation and development prior to baptism.  Our current model uses 18 year old kids and high pressure tactics to make the count of baptisms a higher priority than deep conversion.

I've recently had reason to study into the parable of the sower.  It seems many missionaries may be more concerned with the sowing and less concerned with ensuring the soil is prepared correctly.

[JLHPROF]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

Other than attending the full two hours of church, I don't believe that you promised any of the other things.  I know that some posters on here have made you feel like you did, and I have no doubt that members of your ward are pushing you to receive the priesthood and eventually be endowed, but I don't think you promised to do any of those things when you were baptized.

Also, I know you aren't aware but please don't call them 'magic underwear'.  We consider them a sacred reminder of Christ and our covenantal relationship with Him and not something to make light of. 

 

I know I'm one of those "some posters" but it is disingenuous to say that the baptismal covenant doesn't include agreeing to follow Christ and his gospel.

I certainly don't think people should be pressured or rushed into priesthood ordination, the temple, or marriage.  Everyone progresses differently.  But the covenant to be called by the name of Christ requires following the gospel plan, not just the first step.

[CA Steve]

3 hours ago, Navidad said:

The data is interesting, yet simply doesn't make much sense to me.

It is my understanding that the church continues to count people as members unless they specifically resign their membership. Most people who leave the church don't bother to formally resign and so they continue to be counted in the numbers published by the church. That explains the discrepancy. 

[mrmarklin]

The theory of conversion to the LDS Church is that the Spirit has converted the investigator.  Not any special personal attachment to a person or particular program.  Those things may help, but without the Spirit, it won't last.

 

If this is so, the new member should follow up with regular attendance etc. etc. to strengthen his/her testimony.

 

Obviously, the above is easier said than done.

[3DOP]

5 hours ago, 3DOP said:

You might not remember him, Miserere. There was a knowledgable Catholic who was here around ten years ago who became LDS for a while. But he gave signs that he was on his way. 

All of your posts are "clickbait" for me. And especially a thread. But no, as to a potential disclosure of conversion. I cannot remember what prompted our Catholic convert to reconsider.

I remember a Catholic priest who converted and came back because he became disenchanted with the LDS position on abortion. But I would suggest that if a particular teaching or practice becomes a stumbling block....on my phone, unexpected company...might finish later

finishing...then it means that they had not fully converted to begin with. That priest, who wrote a couple of books about his journey, published by Ignatius Press, always retained his Catholic sensibility about at least one belief. I am of course pleased as a Catholic that He came back to visible communion. But I would have to admit that he was never really LDS. It might be that as your thread implies, "conversions" sometimes have less depth than might be imagined. 

Associating with a religion is not necessarily CONVERSION.

[BlueDreams]

12 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Did you click on it thinking I was converting? Clickbait!  

I poked around briefly on the internet to see the normal process for conversion to your church and thought I'd see what you all thought. It appears that a potential convert takes a series of lessons (6?) from the missionaries and then is baptized. Prior to baptism, they commit to the word of wisdom and chastity. Any other commitments? Then there is an interview with another set of missionaries to determine worthiness and/or level of commitment. The convert has to attend church at least once.

It seems like a convert could basically only interact with the missionaries and learn very little before joining your church. Is this accurate?

I was a missionary back in 2010-11. What you mentioned could really happen, but it was often strongly discouraged and well known that the best convert had direct contacts and relationships with their ward members. So we'd often try to facilitate that in a number of ways depending the person's needs/wants. I'd say that's still the case mostly today. A family recently converted in our ward. We were among the families (though certainly not the only ones) that have become friends with them. And this can help lessen problems like attrition of converts and integration into the faith community. 

On points of commitment, each lesson would entail some form of commitment. From reading to following certain practices to praying about certain things we were teaching them. Some were pre-emptive like following the law of tithing after baptism. most were to study or pray about certain things we were teaching them.

 

 

 

 

12 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Adult converts to Catholicism spend months in a class with other converts preparing. My situation was slightly different, as I had one-on-one classes with the priest, but we did meet for quite some time before my baptism. We covered the entire catechism, which is a pretty hefty book. There was no formal interview, but he pretty much knew my level of knowledge and commitment because of our weekly meetings. Sometimes our meetings were actually hikes or sitting down together at a local brewpub. I remember covering the Marian dogmas while sitting on a ridge after a good hike looking out over the valley.

The basic format is capable of being short...but this didn't mean all converts had short stints with their conversions. It was super common for converts to be taught for months before conversion. So common that we'd have a nickname for ones that were obviously not really progressing towards baptism but also were still amenable to visits and lessons of some sort (eternal investigators). My gut reaction to your post is that longer periods for preparation would be better...but when I started thinking more about my mission, that didn't always equal more solid converts. There was a particular strong sort of convert who would fly through the lessons, get baptized in weeks and stayed solid after. They were ones that were very prepared to make further covenants either by life experiences or from personal study well before meeting a missionary or both. And there were ones who had studied for months, who still struggled post conversion....usually with practices or personal difficulties that were hard to work with for them in general.  I know that rushing baptism could be a real problem. One that was far easier to reduce by adding a few more expectations about connections to the ward and attendance. And doing so could reduce retention problems that happened early on...but it couldn't fully fix all the problems around this. 

12 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

How often have you seen new members struggle with being surprised at church doctrines, practices, or history that they were not aware of prior to baptism? My guess is that that happens a lot less in Catholicism simply because Catholicism has been such a player on the world stage that the broad outlines of its history and doctrines are known simply through our culture (the crusades and inquisitions are covered in high school history classes, as an example). I see Dario was unaware of Adam-God, but I certainly don't think Adam-God needs to be discussed prior to baptism because it is not currently a doctrine. I could see it, though, surprise a convert.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Honestly, not super often. If it is, it's usually tied to doctrine or past policies or beliefs that held direct concern for them. For example one convert on my mission really struggled the racist ideas/policies that happened. In part because of what her parents experienced from missionaries that taught them either right before the ban or right after. In part because she got flooded with well intended ward members who tried to fix her concern with a ton of info. But this was stuff that delayed or almost stopped her baptism. Other things later down the road effected more of her activity that had nothing to do with this (at least from what I heard less directly post mission). 

 

Also tbh, Adam-god is one of those things that I've heard mentioned a bit over the years, once looked up to understand the basic concern, and can barely tell you what it is because it's just not something that has much contextual presence in my religious or community experience. But yeah, catholicism's problems have been more aired publically via world history. I think though there's an very active negative sentiment around the LDS church that means thoughs who look into us are often presented by others or google by a lot of negative things about us, including many that our misconstrued, exaggerated, or plain false. So I'm not sure how I'd compare the two. 

 

With luv, 

BD 

[Dario_M]

15 hours ago, CV75 said:

You are not alone. Some lifelong members have these same issues. Everyone needs to decide what to do as the walk through / bump into life, with the Lord.

Amen dear CV75. So is that. 😓😞

[Dario_M]

On 3/11/2023 at 7:56 PM, bluebell said:

Other than attending the full two hours of church, I don't believe that you promised any of the other things.  I know that some posters on here have made you feel like you did, and I have no doubt that members of your ward are pushing you to receive the priesthood and eventually be endowed, but I don't think you promised to do any of those things when you were baptized.

Also, I know you aren't aware but please don't call them 'magic underwear'.  We consider them a sacred reminder of Christ and our covenantal relationship with Him and not something to make light of. 

 

You know what the thing is. I promised that i will follow the 10 commitments. No sex. No alcahol. No etc. Fasting on every first sunday of the month. 

I whas aware of those commitments. But not that i needed to marry a woman in the temple. 

Btw i'm in church now. I actually may not be on my phone at all. Sorry for the spell mistakes. I am hurry writing this down. 

Edited March 13 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

14 hours ago, rpn said:

 

Missionaries are supposed to teach the gospel basics.   And yes they are supposed to in the course of the baptismal interview make it clear what they are committing to through baptism.   What is required for baptism is a knowledge of and commitment to do their personal best to keep those commandments (BTW, temple ordinances and higher laws taught there, even priesthood ordination, are separate new covenants that are performed in sequence, and are a gateway to all that the Lord has, but not directly related to nor commanded by baptism.)   It takes a while sometimes for people to be ready for additional responsibility.   But it is also an important fact that baptism and confirmation of the gift of Holy Ghost to guide those who are baptized, can make getting to a desire to live discipleship and additional laws easier, more rich, more desirable. 

OP, just keep learning, keep desiring to know Him and His teachings, keep doing your personal best, keep living a live of the best discipleship of Jesus Christ you can.    You will be okay.

Thank you so much fot this kind post. That is a kind relieve for me. ✝️

Thsnk you dear rpn

[Dario_M]

I hope this topic will get a lot of attention. Because these matters are  way to important to ignore. This must be told. The truth has been told. The LDS is not always perfect. 

Thank you @MiserereNobis for making this topic. 

Btw i'm in the church right now and i actually may not even have my phone with me. So i apologize for my spell mistakes. But i need to hurry up writing this down. 

God bless you all, even  for@Grug the Neanderthal and have a nice sunday folks.✝️

Edited March 13 by Dario_M