Converting to the LDS Faith

[california boy]

4 hours ago, Dario_M said:

I hope this topic will get a lot of attention. Because these matters are  way to important to ignore. This must be told. The truth has been told. The LDS is not always perfect. 

Thank you @MiserereNobis for making this topic. 

Btw i'm in the church right now and i a actually may not even have my phone with me. So i apologize for my spell mistakes. But i need to hurry up writing this down. 

God bless you all, even  for@Grug the Neanderthal and have a nice sunday folks.✝️

I am curious.  Did the missionaries tell you before you were baptized that you could never have any sexual relationship with a man? Never have any romantic relationship with a man?  Never go on a date with a man?  Never kiss a man?  That by being baptized, the only way you could have a partner ever, both in this life and the next is with a woman?

[Dario_M]

1 minute ago, california boy said:

I am curious.  Did the missionaries tell you before you were baptized that you could never have any sexual relationship with a man? Never have any romantic relationship with a man?

Yes they said that. Not lituarly like that offcourse. But they presented me the Law Of Chastity. So for me it becoma prity obiously what they ment with that. And what they where trying to tell me. And expecting from me

And i said to them "Okay fine" but in my mind i though hell no i'm def not gonna to that. 

1 minute ago, california boy said:

Never go on a date with a man?

No they asked me more question. Like or i masturbate. And how aften i masturbate. And if i watched porn

I always needed to laugh so much when they came up with those questions. It whas quite uncomfortable. 🤣🤣

1 minute ago, california boy said:

 Never kiss a man?  That by being baptized, the only way you could have a partner ever, both in this life and the next is with a woman?

Well...they where suggesting me about mixed marrieges. And that i also can go for that. But i whas not interested at all in those sonsens. Please no,...no hair on my head that is thinking about starting such a nightmare. No way. And i told them that. That i will never do something like that. 

[JAHS]

16 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

The theory of conversion to the LDS Church is that the Spirit has converted the investigator.  Not any special personal attachment to a person or particular program.  Those things may help, but without the Spirit, it won't last.

 

If this is so, the new member should follow up with regular attendance etc. etc. to strengthen his/her testimony.

 

Obviously, the above is easier said than done.

I think this is the most key ingredient to lasting membership in the Chuch.  A person may be convinced on the truthfulness of the gospel but might not be truly converted without the having such an experience with the Holy Ghost that testifies to our soul. 

[Dario_M]

I find that it is just important that some church members of my ward help me with all this stuff. To bad that my bishop can hardly speak English.

Today at church a few people greet me. But the most of them didn't even looked at me (and they are the ones that speak good English) And while i had good contact with them bevore, now we hardly talk wich each other anymore. But i feel that i really need their help to grown more as a church member. 

I wish that at least my bishop could speak decent English. 😞

[bluebell]

23 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

I know I'm one of those "some posters" but it is disingenuous to say that the baptismal covenant doesn't include agreeing to follow Christ and his gospel.

I certainly don't think people should be pressured or rushed into priesthood ordination, the temple, or marriage.  Everyone progresses differently.  But the covenant to be called by the name of Christ requires following the gospel plan, not just the first step.

I agree.  That would be disingenuous, which is why I didn't say that the baptismal covenant doesn't include agreeing to follow Christ and His gospel.

Your perspective appears to disagree, but from mine, we cannot 'accidentally' or unknowingly promise anything to God.  The covenantal relationship--from my understanding of the gospel--can only exist purposefully.  

If Dario had no idea promising to take Christ's name upon him and agreeing to follow Christ and His gospel meant promising to be endowed (or ordained) in this life, then--again, from my understanding of the gospel--he made no such promises.  He promised according to his understanding of the covenant, as far as his understanding was sincere and genuine.  I don't believe that God holds him to any understanding other than his own (including your understanding, or mine).   His understanding will likely change as he grows and matures spiritually, and the terms of the covenant between him and Christ will do the same.

In my belief, this is the whole point and purpose of Christ's grace.

 

[Hamilton Porter]

I had missionary correlation meeting today, and the missionaries said that one investigator had been visiting other churches the past two weeks. The investigator said he was imitating Joseph Smith. The elders said, "that's not the point of the story." I said, nah, that's good, let him do it.

[The Nehor]

11 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Yes they said that. Not lituarly like that offcourse. But they presented me the Law Of Chastity. So for me it becoma prity obiously what they ment with that. And what they where trying to tell me. And expecting from me

And i said to them "Okay fine" but in my mind i though hell no i'm def not gonna to that. 

No they asked me more question. Like or i masturbate. And how aften i masturbate. And if i watched porn

I always needed to laugh so much when they came up with those questions. It whas quite uncomfortable. 🤣🤣

Well...they were suggesting me about mixed marrieges. And that i also can go for that. But i whas not interested at all in those sonsens. Please no,...no hair on my head that is thinking about starting such a nightmare. No way. And i told them that. That i will never do something like that. 

This should go well.

[Bernard Gui]

On 3/11/2023 at 11:23 AM, MiserereNobis said:

Did you click on it thinking I was converting? Clickbait!  

I poked around briefly on the internet to see the normal process for conversion to your church and thought I'd see what you all thought. It appears that a potential convert takes a series of lessons (6?) from the missionaries and then is baptized. Prior to baptism, they commit to the word of wisdom and chastity. Any other commitments? Then there is an interview with another set of missionaries to determine worthiness and/or level of commitment. The convert has to attend church at least once.

It seems like a convert could basically only interact with the missionaries and learn very little before joining your church. Is this accurate?

Adult converts to Catholicism spend months in a class with other converts preparing. My situation was slightly different, as I had one-on-one classes with the priest, but we did meet for quite some time before my baptism. We covered the entire catechism, which is a pretty hefty book. There was no formal interview, but he pretty much knew my level of knowledge and commitment because of our weekly meetings. Sometimes our meetings were actually hikes or sitting down together at a local brewpub. I remember covering the Marian dogmas while sitting on a ridge after a good hike looking out over the valley.

How often have you seen new members struggle with being surprised at church doctrines, practices, or history that they were not aware of prior to baptism? My guess is that that happens a lot less in Catholicism simply because Catholicism has been such a player on the world stage that the broad outlines of its history and doctrines are known simply through our culture (the crusades and inquisitions are covered in high school history classes, as an example). I see Dario was unaware of Adam-God, but I certainly don't think Adam-God needs to be discussed prior to baptism because it is not currently a doctrine. I could see it, though, surprise a convert.

Thanks for your thoughts!

In my experience, one who becomes a member of the Church should first have a witness from the Holy Spirit that the Book of Mormon is true and that Joseph Smith was a prophet. 

[Tacenda]

20 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

In my experience, one who becomes a member of the Church should first have a witness from the Holy Spirit that the Book of Mormon is true and that Joseph Smith was a prophet. 

I always thought it would have been better to have been a convert than baptized at eight years old, because I really didn't know the BoM was true, or that Joseph Smith was a prophet. And don't know if I had a witness of the Holy Spirit, I wasn't really taught these things as a child. And was it a thing back in the late 60's to even read the BoM like we're told to now? 

[Hamilton Porter]

On 3/11/2023 at 3:43 PM, Navidad said:

I believe it is somehow and to some degree related to the question in this thread - I am constantly surprised at, and do not understand the huge variance between the Mexican census data and what the church reports regarding membership in Mexico. The church says that Mexico has the highest number of members after the United States and that membership grew 30% from 2011 to 2021. The church claims 1,498,296 members here. The latest (2020) census shows somewhere around 400,000 (I don't have the exact number in front of me) who self-profess to be LDS (excluding Mormon fundamentalists). That is quite a variance. I have no idea if that kind of a gap is common in countries. The census data is supposed to include 5 years of age and up. The church records certainly include children under eight who have received a blessing. Isn't that correct?  The Catholic population is something down to around 73%, the lowest ever. I believe the Protestant, including Pentecostals (which isn't always an accurate thing to do) is around 11% in 2020. It is the Pentecostals who are booming. The data is interesting, yet simply doesn't make much sense to me.

The absolute numbers are inflated, for sure, but the 30% increase is accurate. In 2010 there were 314,000 Latter-day Saints in the Mexican Census.

[Dario_M]

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

This should go well.

Where a strong will is is a way i always say. 🙏✝️

Edited March 13, 2023 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

In my experience, one who becomes a member of the Church should first have a witness from the Holy Spirit that the Book of Mormon is true and that Joseph Smith was a prophet. 

That is nonsens. Bevore you get baptized you allready have had an intervieuw. That should be enough.

If you really wanna let the church run down empty then you should do something like this idea of yours indeed. Making more pressure on the people. And letting a witness decide or somebody is worthy or not. That will do a lot good for the church. 🤦‍♂️

Do everyone a favour and keep your old fassion ideas for you. I allready know what kind of member you are. I have plenty of those people in my ward. And i can tell you the way how you guys act doesn't help at all. It make's people feel having more forse, pressure, or uncomfortable.

I didn't had a witness bevore my baptisme. So what now?? Do you find that my baptisme doesn't count? That i'm not a real member of the church that i'm not a real Mormon?? 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Dario_M

[Calm]

9 hours ago, bluebell said:

That would be disingenuous, which is why I didn't say that the baptismal covenant doesn't include agreeing to follow Christ and His gospel.

Just happened to come across this. Thought of this thread. It’s for children and is not complete, but it is useful for how it is taught. 
 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/friend/2023/03/baptism-covenants?lang=eng&cid=9063974002

Edited March 13, 2023 by Calm

[bluebell]

10 hours ago, Dario_M said:

That is nonsens. Bevore you get baptized you allready have had an intervieuw. That should be enough.

If you really wanna let the church run down empty then you should do something like this idea of yours indeed. Making more pressure on the people. And letting a witness decide or somebody is worthy or not. That will do a lot good for the church. 🤦‍♂️

Do everyone a favour and keep your old fassion ideas for you. I allready know what kind of member you are. I have plenty of those people in my ward. And i can tell you the way how you guys act doesn't help at all. It make's people feel having more forse, pressure, or uncomfortable.

I didn't had a witness bevore my baptisme. So what now?? Do you find that my baptisme doesn't count? That i'm not a real member of the church that i'm not a real Mormon?? 

You've misunderstood Bernard.  He isn't saying that someone needs a person to be a witness for them before they can get baptized.  He's saying that someone needs to have had a personal witness from the Holy Ghost that the Book of Mormon is of God and that Joseph Smith was a prophet.

[Dario_M]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

You've misunderstood Bernard.  He isn't saying that someone needs a person to be a witness for them before they can get baptized.  He's saying that someone needs to have had a personal witness from the Holy Ghost that the Book of Mormon is of God and that Joseph Smith was a prophet.

Okay but those questions where allready been asked to me bevore my baptisme. 

However, bernard is old fasion anyway i find. Know him good enough to know that. Since he have visit my into my pm once. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Dario_M

[Pyreaux]

2 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Okay but those questions where allready been asked to me bevore my baptisme. 

Every missionary is ideally a young man with a simple testimony of the gospel from the Holy Spirit, trained to know and teach by the spirit the basics of the gospel, not older theologians or historians trained to educate you in theology or history. The missionaries are not actually there to convince you through education or apologetics, but to teach how to feel and use the Holy Spirit to know the truth for yourself. Knowledge that no man can give or take away from you. If just a man talked you into it, a man can talk you out of it. However, with a simple testimony of the Book of Mormon you can know there is a God, he answers prayers, Jesus is real, Joseph Smith's story of the book's origins must be true, God helped him translate it and he must be prophet, the church he started is true, the priesthood must be true, also. That's why we call the Book of Mormon the "keystone" of our religion.

So, if that testimony is in the bag, all of these other human theories, mysteries and trivia are nothing. If men tell you our hero Joseph wasn't perfect, that shouldn't mean the God was wrong, and that he is not a prophet. In fact, in your case, the fact that he is an imperfect person gives you some hope for yourself, isn't that how you feel? If you have any testimony of the church at all, you should stay no matter what other men tell you. If you are unworthy to be a priest, it is good, and to your credit, to not become one. Some think too mechanically like; you are 8, we must get you baptized; you are a man, we must give you the priesthood. They should ask you, remind you, and encourage you. It is a part of the path you started at baptism, but many do not reach the end of the path; you should if you want to, one day. Sure, it would be good if you desired to get married in the temple to a woman and have children, but it's wisdom to never have gotten married if you are just going to violate your marriage covenants (Matthew 19:12). Don't be pressured to run faster than you are able (Mosiah 4:27). I believe you understand this, I think maybe it's others here that need reminding.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Pyreaux

[Dario_M]

33 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Every missionary is ideally a young man with a simple testimony of the gospel from the Holy Spirit, trained to know and teach by the spirit the basics of the gospel, not older theologians or historians trained to educate you in theology or history. The missionaries are not actually there to convince you through education or apologetics, but to teach how to feel and use the Holy Spirit to know the truth for yourself. Knowledge that no man can give or take away from you. If just a man talked you into it, a man can talk you out of it. However, with a simple testimony of the Book of Mormon, there is a God, he answers prayers, Joseph Smith's story of the book's origins must be true, God helped him translate it, he must be prophet, the church he started is true, the priesthood must be true, also. That's why we call the Book of Mormon the "key stone" of our religion.

Well that's good. I have read the whole book of Mormon and have the whole storie in my head. So at least i'm familiar with the "key stone" of our religion.

 

33 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

So, if that is in the bag, all of these other human theories, mysteries and trivia are nothing. If men tell you our hero Joseph wasn't perfect, that shouldn't mean the God was wrong, and that he is not a prophet. In fact, in your case, the fact that he is an imperfect person gives you some hope for yourself, isn't that how you feel?

I don't know how to feel actually. I don't know the guy personaly.🎭 But some accusations about Smith i find hard to believe. I just don't buy it you know. 

33 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

If you have any testimony of the church at all, you should stay no matter what other men tell you. If you are unworthy to be a priest, it is good, and to your credit, to not become one. Some think too mechanically like; you are 8, we must get you baptized; you are a man, we must give you the priesthood.

Yeah i can remember that soon after i got baptized my bishop (and a missionarie) where always after me every sunday about the priesterhood. 

But they don't do that anymore now, running after me. And that is to bad because now i wanna receive the priesterhood actually. The only problem is....will i get more presure? Do i need to change my ways after i have received the priesterhood?? In case i do...i would no be a happy pamper. 

33 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

They should ask you, remind you, and encourage you. It is a part of the path you started at baptism, but many do not reach the end of the path;

Include me. I don't wanna have an endowmend. I don't wanna wear garments in the summer. 🥵 

I don't understand how you guys manage to do that. Must be turture. 

33 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

you should if you want to, one day. Sure, it would be good if you desired to get married in the temple to a woman and have children,

Man* And no children please. 

33 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

but it's wisdom to never have gotten married if you are just going to violate your marriage covenants (Matthew 19:12). Don't be pressured to run faster than you are able (Mosiah 4:27). I believe you understand this, I think maybe it's others here that need reminding.

Def in my ward. Pffff the judgements from some individuals are hitting me from left and right. Cry. I have my belly full of those stupid judgments. A few more and i will explode. 💥

Edited March 13, 2023 by Dario_M

[Rain]

16 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Well that's good. I have read the whole book of Mormon and have the whole storie in my head. So at least i'm familiar with the "key stone" of our religion.

 

I don't know how to feel actually. I don't know the guy personaly.🎭 But some accusations about Smith i find hard to believe. I just don't buy it you know. 

Yeah i can remember that soon after i got baptized my bishop (and a missionarie) where always after me every sunday about the priesterhood. 

But they don't do that anymore now, running after me. And that is to bad because now i wanna receive the priesterhood actually. The only problem is....will i get more presure? Do i need to change my ways after i have received the priesterhood?? In case i do...i would no be a happy pamper. 

Include me. I don't wanna have an endowmend. I don't wanna wear garments in the summer. 🥵 

I don't understand how you guys manage to do that. Must be turture. 

Man* And no children please. 

Def in my ward. Pffff the judgements from some individuals are hitting me from left and right. Cry. I have my belly full of those stupid judgments. A few more and i will explode. 💥

Do you feel like you are doing what God wants you to do? If yes, then ignore the judgments.  If no then it matters that you find out what He wants you to do, not what others judge of you.  Are you willing to do what God asks?

You will never grow if you can't let go of the judgments of others.  They don't matter.  Only God does. Find out what he wants from you?

[Dario_M]

21 minutes ago, Rain said:

Do you feel like you are doing what God wants you to do? If yes, then ignore the judgments.  If no then it matters that you find out what He wants you to do, not what others judge of you.  Are you willing to do what God asks?

Yes.

21 minutes ago, Rain said:

You will never grow if you can't let go of the judgments of others.  They don't matter.  Only God does. Find out what he wants from you?

Yeah. It matters what god wants. If God would tell me right now that i needed to go to the centrum of Lisbon find the busiest street drest like a non with a big wig and sing songs of Shakira i would do it emmediately. Just like that. 👌 without a doubt. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Dario_M

[Rain]

26 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Yes.

Yeah. It matters what god wants. If God would tell me right now that i needed to go to the centrum of Lisbon find the busiest street drest like a non with a big wig and sing songs of Shakira i would do it emmediately. Just like that. 👌 without a doubt. 

Ok, then ignore all the judgment of people.  When you focus on the judgment so much it doesn't allow you to hear God as well.  It decreases your spiritual power to do what He asks of you.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to others. Sometimes you hear what God wants through them. But if you focus so much on "this person is judging me" then you lose time  and power that God wants to give you.

[Dario_M]

36 minutes ago, Rain said:

Ok, then ignore all the judgment of people.  When you focus on the judgment so much it doesn't allow you to hear God as well.  It decreases your spiritual power to do what He asks of you.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to others. Sometimes you hear what God wants through them. But if you focus so much on "this person is judging me" then you lose time  and power that God wants to give you.

Okay got you. 😉 

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Yes.

Yeah. It matters what god wants. If God would tell me right now that i needed to go to the centrum of Lisbon find the busiest street drest like a non with a big wig and sing songs of Shakira i would do it emmediately. Just like that. 👌 without a doubt. 

Usually he doesn’t want the grand gestures, though, but the little sacrifices that lead us to becoming better people, sacrifices like choosing to give up a luxury or pleasure to help someone else in need; choosing to be patient with someone who is making us frustrated; choosing to give up something that makes us feel good now, but weakens is physically so we can be healthier, 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Calm

[caspianrex]

On 3/11/2023 at 11:02 AM, bluebell said:

I kind of agree with the implication of this post, in that I think it can be too easy to become a member of the church and I think that's a large part of why we have so many less active members.

I'm curious as to whether there is any data on the rate of "retention" of new converts. Actually, I'm not just curious about this retention rate just in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but in various Christian denominations as well. As someone who has worked for the United Methodist Church for the past 15 years, I have often thought that we don't always do a great job of instructing new members in the particulars of our faith. So, I sometimes wonder how many people who may be new to Christian faith, or new to Methodism, may end up slipping through the cracks after a while.

I recall, many years ago, when my wife and I attended a church in the Disciples of Christ denomination, that it was quite common for young people to have an emotional conversion experience at a concert or something. They were welcomed, baptized, and then...we sometimes never saw them again. It's certainly a challenge for all churches, not just LDS. As the OP indicated, the Catholic Church has a long history of catechizing new believers, so I wouldn't be too surprised if they have a pretty good rate of retention.

[Okrahomer]

30 minutes ago, caspianrex said:

I'm curious as to whether there is any data on the rate of "retention" of new converts.

PEW published retention rate for American religious groups back in 2008.  The “Mormon” cohort shows quite well; however, I suspect the rate falls drastically outside the US.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Okrahomer
Link to original survey report

[Dario_M]

23 minutes ago, Calm said:

Usually he doesn’t want the grand gestures,

🤣

23 minutes ago, Calm said:

though, but the little sacrifices that lead us to becoming better people, sacrificed like choosing to give up a luxury or pleasure to help someone else in need;

Sunday i had given food to a homeless guy. So offcourse i help other people. That is what i have learnt from the church.

23 minutes ago, Calm said:

choosing to be patient with someone who is making us frustrated; choosing to give up something that makes us feel good now, but weakens is physically so we can be healthier, 

yeah but... loosing patients with somebody from time to time is not that big of a deal, feeling frustrated etc, those are normal feelings. You don't always need to be nice to everyone. Or have a constant patients while you are actually just till the point to explode and just wanna scream to that person and really feel like you need to tell him/her the truth that they bound to know for whatever reason. 

It isn't healty to keep those feelings inside all the time. And to be nice to everyone 24/7. We are humans. Not robots.

Hry but dear Calm💗 it's bedtime for me. 

God bless you. I always innjoy our little conversations. Btw i still listen to those podcasts you have linked on your topic. They are super interesting. ✝️🙏