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GOD the man


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hello

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! … It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did.” Joseph Smith

 

“We have been promised by the Lord that if we know how to worship, and know what we worship, we may come unto the Father in his name, and in due time receive of his fulness. We have the promise that if we keep his commandments, we shall receive of his fulness and be glorified in him as he is in the Father.”

 

my question...

can it be proven GOD was a man.

other religions say he built a great city and we are supposed to walk around it and from that we will know HIM (or as above "what we worship")

is that important and possible. or ridiculous.

thanks
 

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31 minutes ago, ShemTov said:

hello

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! … It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did.” Joseph Smith

 

“We have been promised by the Lord that if we know how to worship, and know what we worship, we may come unto the Father in his name, and in due time receive of his fulness. We have the promise that if we keep his commandments, we shall receive of his fulness and be glorified in him as he is in the Father.”

 

my question...

can it be proven GOD was a man.

other religions say he built a great city and we are supposed to walk around it and from that we will know HIM (or as above "what we worship")

is that important and possible. or ridiculous.

thanks
 

Both Catholics and Protestants believe in one God, a divine being of one substance. Both religions also believe the God who rules in heaven was once a man who was born, lived and died on earth. Both religions also hold that “the man Jesus Christ” is now a resurrected man with a glorified human body of flesh and bone. And since both religions believe God is one being, the answer is yes, God was and is a man, for if God isn’t a man then God is not one God.

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5 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Both Catholics and Protestants believe in one God, a divine being of one substance. Both religions also believe the God who rules in heaven was once a man who was born, lived and died on earth. Both religions also hold that “the man Jesus Christ” is now a resurrected man with a glorified human body of flesh and bone. And since both religions believe God is one being, the answer is yes, God was and is a man, for if God isn’t a man then God is not one God.

hello

catholic dogma #1 - 

God, our Creator and Lord, can be known with certainty, by the natural light of reason from created things

... God keeps all created things in existence.

so it would seem that the created things mentioned in the bible are to be proof. like... we are to dance in the garden of eden and as mentioned in the op... walk around the city of zion.

in my experience suggesting that the garden and Zion could be or has been found makes them angry.

 

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5 hours ago, Calm said:

Can it be proven that there is a God?  Makes more sense to start there if you want to prove anything. 
 

proving there was a GOD on earth might be easier to prove to start? in HIS wisdom he would surely make this an easy task for humans at some point in their development?

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18 hours ago, ShemTov said:

my question...

can it be proven GOD was a man.

is that important and possible. or ridiculous.

thanks
 

Like, logical proofs? That which is without body, parts or passions is nothing.

Like, Biblical proof texts? There is not a signal Old Testament, nor even a single Talmudic teaching, of an aphysical God, before Christ the God-man. Both Jews and Christian for three centuries believed that God was a man with human appearance (Origen, De Pricipiis, Preface 9) Once the New Testament was formed, only a single New Testament proof text (Jn 4:24) that is used by later Christian theologians to bridge the gap between the once embodied Jewish and early Christian God and the contemporary neo-Platonic god, the One, loaded with ideal metaphysical attributes, being aphysical because matter was evil, so the god of the philosophers would never associate himself with matter, so neither did the later Christians. (Origen, Homilies of Genesis 3:1, 86)

Meanwhile the Old Testament explicitly tells us that Adam's golem was molded into the 'image' or statue, which is a physical copy, of God. (Gen 1:26-27; 5:1-2;; 9:6) The New Testament tells us that only after Christ was in his resurrected body was he also the express 'image' of God the Father (Heb 1:3; 1 Cor 11:7; 2 Cor 4:4; Col 1:15; Clementine Homilies 16:19).

Literally in some cases, Moses calls the Lord God °a man° (Ex 15:3), Jesus calls his Father a man (Mk 10:18).There is the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls that God is a "glorious man" (1QM 12:2; 1QM 19) and even a "creature of flesh", (4Q416, Fragment 1). God the Father has been seen by Isaiah, Daniel, Stephen and John who depict him as a man with a throne, hands, wearing a robe and sash.

Importance of knowing GOD is a man; knowledge that humanity and God are the same species adds awareness to the true nature, value and scope of the human species. The value of human life is always been somewhat lacking in most non-Judeo-Christian cultures and modern secular culture. It makes it harder to choose to abort a child of God I'd think.

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Edited by Pyreaux
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14 hours ago, bluebell said:

I think it’s easy enough for Him to prove it to individuals, but not an easy task for an individual to prove it to another.

He’s prove His existence to me, for example, but there is no way for me to make that proof valid to anyone else. 

the quantity of GODLINESS on earth is not inspiring. I guess all the individual could hope for is pointing out current meaningful information and letting GODS great gift of self actualization take over.

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13 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I need only look around at every creation to know some thing or creator is out there. I don't believe it's a big bang thing, but something created the big bang to begin with.

creation is great. mans modifications are not always good. to me, believing that I have seen what GOD created on earth with his own hand in the dirt in his lifetime is pretty confirming.

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3 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

Importance of knowing GOD is a man; knowledge that humanity and God are the same species adds awareness to the true nature, value and scope of the human species. The value of human life is always been somewhat lacking in most non-Judeo-Christian cultures and modern secular culture. It makes it harder to choose to abort a child of God I'd think.

To me it seems GODs first ideas were to keep everybody fed, to keep everybody safe and to include everybody. it would be good for us to start with this too. Seeing that GOD was a man and his plan worked could not hurt us.

does GOD approve of every conception? are there not evil conceptions.

 

peace

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4 hours ago, ShemTov said:

the quantity of GODLINESS on earth is not inspiring. I guess all the individual could hope for is pointing out current meaningful information and letting GODS great gift of self actualization take over.

It really depends on perspective. I find it very inspiring. But then, it’s easier to see it if your bias is to believe. If your perspective is doubtful or unbelieving, then that bias will color your interpretation of the world in the opposite way. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/1/2022 at 8:55 AM, teddyaware said:

Both Catholics and Protestants believe in one God, a divine being of one substance. Both religions also believe the God who rules in heaven was once a man who was born, lived and died on earth. Both religions also hold that “the man Jesus Christ” is now a resurrected man with a glorified human body of flesh and bone. And since both religions believe God is one being, the answer is yes, God was and is a man, for if God isn’t a man then God is not one God.

I have never met a Catholic or Protestant who believes Heavenly Father was once a man on
some other earth who became a God and procreated Jesus with his Goddess wife.

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On 9/1/2022 at 2:10 PM, Tacenda said:

I need only look around at every creation to know some thing or creator is out there. I don't believe it's a big bang thing, but something created the big bang to begin with.

+1, but, while your mileage may vary, I don't have any problem with the idea that the Big Bang is part of creation.  I don't know that there is as much of a gulf between science and religion as many atheists and anti-theists would like us to believe: I simply believe that God is the best Scientist in existence. ;) 

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56 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

+1, but, while your mileage may vary, I don't have any problem with the idea that the Big Bang is part of creation.  I don't know that there is as much of a gulf between science and religion as many atheists and anti-theists would like us to believe: I simply believe that God is the best Scientist in existence. ;) 

I believe I said that, haha. +1 back! :)

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1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I believe I said that, haha. +1 back! :)

Apologies: I was confused when you wrote, "I don't believe it is a Big Bang thing ..."

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On 9/1/2022 at 8:12 AM, ShemTov said:

hello

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! … It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did.” Joseph Smith

 

“We have been promised by the Lord that if we know how to worship, and know what we worship, we may come unto the Father in his name, and in due time receive of his fulness. We have the promise that if we keep his commandments, we shall receive of his fulness and be glorified in him as he is in the Father.”

 

my question...

can it be proven GOD was a man.

other religions say he built a great city and we are supposed to walk around it and from that we will know HIM (or as above "what we worship")

is that important and possible. or ridiculous.

thanks
 

One way to prove it would be to ask God in humility and sincerity if Joseph Smith was right.

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On 9/1/2022 at 8:55 AM, teddyaware said:

Both Catholics and Protestants believe in one God, a divine being of one substance. Both religions also believe the God who rules in heaven was once a man who was born, lived and died on earth. Both religions also hold that “the man Jesus Christ” is now a resurrected man with a glorified human body of flesh and bone. And since both religions believe God is one being, the answer is yes, God was and is a man, for if God isn’t a man then God is not one God.

I would guess most Catholics and Protestants would find your explanation a tortured distortion of what they actually believe about the Godhead.  Have you really ever taken any time to understand what they really believe?  I have found most Latter day Saint totally botch and distort orthodox belief about the Godhead and Trinity when they prattle on about it.  You certainly did.

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On 9/1/2022 at 9:49 AM, Calm said:

Can it be proven that there is a God?  Makes more sense to start there if you want to prove anything. 
 

teddy, surely you are aware that what you mean by one divine being, one God in your comment is not what the Catholics and Protestants mean.

I doubt he is aware of that.

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1 hour ago, Teancum said:

I doubt he is aware of that.

If he has been reading the Catholic responses on this board on this topic at all since it started, he should be aware of it.  They have made it clear multiple times “one being” is not the same as “one person” nor does each of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit being fully God mean all the characteristics of Christ are in the Father.  The part of Christ that is fully man that does not overlap with what is fully god would not be present in the Father.

I hope if I got anything wrong or something needs to be added, the Catholics will speak up and correct or clarify as they usually do.  :) 

Edited by Calm
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 9/1/2022 at 6:12 AM, ShemTov said:

hmy question...

can it be proven GOD was a man.

other religions say he built a great city and we are supposed to walk around it and from that we will know HIM (or as above "what we worship")

is that important and possible. or ridiculous.

thanks
 

The scriptures do prove that God is a man, and strongly infer that He was once like us. 

"God is not a man, that He would lie." The context says He is not the type of man who would lie.

"I do nothing of myself, but what I have seen the Father do. Whatsoever He does, the Son does likewise."

"The man has become as one of us, knowing good and evil." How is it that God knew evil?

The list goes on. ... The Hebrew letters of their name, Yehovah, means, Behold the hand, Behold the nail. ie That's the Father's name too.

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On 9/2/2022 at 7:42 AM, Pyreaux said:

Both Jews and Christian for three centuries believed that God was a man with human appearance (Origen, De Pricipiis, Preface 9)

With respect, this is not correct.

You reference Origen’s ‘De Pricipiis, Preface 9’.  Here it is – in full:

‘We shall inquire, however, whether the thing which Greek philosophers call (ἀσώματον), or "incorporeal", is found in holy Scripture under another name. For it is also to be a subject of investigation how God himself is to be understood – whether as corporeal, and formed according to some shape, or of a different nature from bodies – a point which is not clearly indicated in our teaching. And the same inquiries have to be made regarding Christ and the Holy Spirit, as well as respecting every soul, and everything possessed of a rational nature.’

There is no declaration here that the Beloved is a ‘man with human appearance’.  Origen is merely declaring his intention to investigate the matter.

Having done so, Origen then declares:

‘Having refuted, then, as well as we could, every notion which might suggest that we were to think of God as in any degree corporeal, we go on to say that, according to strict truth, God is incomprehensible, and incapable of being measured. For whatever be the knowledge which we are able to obtain of God, either by perception or reflection, we must of necessity believe that He is by many degrees far better than what we perceive Him to be……….As, therefore, our understanding is unable of itself to behold God Himself as He is, it knows the Father of the world from the beauty of His works and the comeliness of His creatures. God, therefore, is not to be thought of as being either a body or as existing in a body, but as an uncompounded intellectual nature, admitting within Himself no addition of any kind.’ (‘De Pricipiis: Book 1; Chapter 1 – ‘On God’; Sections 5 and 6’; my emphasis).

Origen is supported by the following Fathers:

Tatian the Syrian (writing in 170 C.E.): 

‘God is a spirit, not attending upon matter, but the maker of material spirits and of the appearances which are in matter. He is invisible, being himself the Father of both sensible and invisible things” (‘Address to the Greeks; 4’).

Irenaeus (writing in 189 C.E.):

‘Far removed is the Father of all from those things which operate among men, the affections and passions. He is simple, not composed of parts, without structure, altogether like and equal to himself alone. He is all mind, all spirit, all thought, all intelligence, all reason.’ (‘Against Heresies 2:13:3’; my emphasis).

Clement of Alexandria (writing in 200 C.E.):,

‘God is divine being, eternal and without beginning, incorporeal and illimitable, and the cause of what exists.’ (Fragment from ‘On Providence’; my emphasis).

And Clement again:

‘What is God? ‘God,’ as the Lord says, ‘is a spirit.’ Now spirit is properly substance, incorporeal, and uncircumscribed.  And that is incorporeal which does not consist of a body, or whose existence is not according to breadth, length, and depth. And that is uncircumscribed which has no place, which is wholly in all, and in each entire, and the same in itself.’ (Ibid; my emphasis.)

To these, we can add the later Fathers:

 Athanasius (‘Letter on the Council of Nicaea 11’; 350 C.E.); Didymus the Blind (‘The Holy Spirit’ (362 C.E); Hilary of Poitiers (‘Commentary on the Psalms 129 (130):3’ (365 C.E); Basil the Great (‘Letters 234:1’ (367 C.E.); Ambrose of Milan (‘The Faith 1:16:106’ (379 C.E.); Evagrius of Pontus (‘Dogmatic Letter on the Trinity 8:2’ (381 C.E.); Gregory of Nyssa (‘Against Eunomius1:1:222’ (382 C.E.); John Chrysostom (‘Against the Anomoians 1:5’ (386 C.E.); St Augustine (‘The Trinity 5:5:6’ (408 C.E.); and Cyril of Alexandria (‘Dialogues on the Trinity 1’ (420 C.E.); ‘Treasury of the Holy Trinity 11’ (424 C.E.); and (Commentary on the Psalms 11(12):3 (429 C.E.).

 Continued.
 

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