Change to handbook, 19.3.6 RE: music in sacrament mtg

[MustardSeed]

I play a stringed instrument and am asked to play often at church.  I have always insisted on playing a hymn because that is what we have been instructed to do.  I've often been disappointed that my dad could not play his beautiful mellow trombone for Christmas worship or otherwise in sacrament meeting -

It looks as though both issues, song selection and instrument selection are up to the discretion of the priesthood holders.  I don't particularly like secular religious music but at least now I can feel good about playing "come thou font" in sacrament, or one of my favorite primary hymns that no longer gets used.  "stairway to heaven" I think it's called, and no, not 'that' one. 

And I'm calling my dad right now.  He's 80, not much time left.

[Hamba Tuhan]

We’ve been having ‘Come, Thou Fount’ in SM for years, along with musical selections that reflect our ward’s cultures, but now I’m pushing for some African drumming!

[BRMC]

57 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I play a stringed instrument and am asked to play often at church.  I have always insisted on playing a hymn because that is what we have been instructed to do.  I've often been disappointed that my dad could not play his beautiful mellow trombone for Christmas worship or otherwise in sacrament meeting -

It looks as though both issues, song selection and instrument selection are up to the discretion of the priesthood holders.  I don't particularly like secular religious music but at least now I can feel good about playing "come thou font" in sacrament, or one of my favorite primary hymns that no longer gets used.  "stairway to heaven" I think it's called, and no, not 'that' one. 

And I'm calling my dad right now.  He's 80, not much time left.

Interesting.  We've had a variety of instruments in our Christmas service, and others, including a trombone.

[bluebell]

I figure if they let the missionaries sing Come Thou Fount in the MTC (the strictest place for music that I have ever seen) then it must be ok in sacrament meeting. 

[Kenngo1969]

3 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

... I can feel good about playing ... one of my favorite primary hymns that no longer gets used.  "stairway to heaven" I think it's called, and no, not 'that' one. ...

Yes, I know you said it's not this one, so I apologize for the irrelevant, irreverent diversion, but I couldn't resist!  

 

[jcake]

Come Thou Fount has been in the LDS Hymnbook in the past.  It is definitely appropriate for sacrament meeting.

[sunstoned]

2 hours ago, BRMC said:

Interesting.  We've had a variety of instruments in our Christmas service, and others, including a trombone.

In the past I have attended Sacrament meetings that had musical numbers using the violin, harp, flute, and guitar.  I always thought it was up to the Bishop.  I am glad to see that it is now official.

[sunstoned]

Just now, sunstoned said:

In the past I have attended Sacrament meetings that had musical numbers using the violin, harp, flute, and guitar.  I always thought it was up to the Bishop.  I am glad to see that it is now official.

Edited to add:  Not all instruments listed were used at once😀

[Peacefully]

33 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Yes, I know you said it's not this one, so I apologize for the irrelevant, irreverent diversion, but I couldn't resist!  

 

I used to sing this as a lullabye for my daughter. Worked every time:)

[Peacefully]

34 minutes ago, jcake said:

Come Thou Fount has been in the LDS Hymnbook in the past.  It is definitely appropriate for sacrament meeting.

I think it is also the most requested song for the new hymn book:) 

[sunstoned]

5 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

I used to sing this as a lullabye for my daughter. Worked every time:)

Classic song from a classic group!

[strappinglad]

We will know that there is major progression when some version like this is played on the Sunday near July 4

 

STAR SPANGLED BANNER (GUITAR SOLO) - YouTube

 

[Scott Lloyd]

6 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I play a stringed instrument and am asked to play often at church.  I have always insisted on playing a hymn because that is what we have been instructed to do.  I've often been disappointed that my dad could not play his beautiful mellow trombone for Christmas worship or otherwise in sacrament meeting -

It looks as though both issues, song selection and instrument selection are up to the discretion of the priesthood holders.  I don't particularly like secular religious music but at least now I can feel good about playing "come thou font" in sacrament, or one of my favorite primary hymns that no longer gets used.  "stairway to heaven" I think it's called, and no, not 'that' one. 

And I'm calling my dad right now.  He's 80, not much time left.

 

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

I figure if they let the missionaries sing Come Thou Fount in the MTC (the strictest place for music that I have ever seen) then it must be ok in sacrament meeting. 

Maybe everyone here but me is too young to remember that “Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing” USED TO BE in the Church’s hymn book (1948 version). It got left out of the current (1985) version only because not enough of our congregations were using it back then. 
 

It has since become immensely popular among our people. We performed an arrangement of it when I was ward choir director. I’ve seen it performed many, many times in the Church in recent years in a variety of settings. It strikes me as odd that anyone would feel hesitant about performing it in Church these days, as though it were disapproved or something. 

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It strikes me as odd that anyone would feel hesitant about performing it in Church these days, as though it were disapproved or something. 

There are bishops (known one and heard of others) who refuse to allow anything but something in the hymn book played in Sacrament Meeting except perhaps prelude music.  Odd perhaps, but their rules. Whatever the reason a song was left out, if it wasn’t in the book, not allowed.

My guess with the one I knew is that he didn’t want to argue about the acceptability of a piece, it was a clear and easily understood by anyone standard. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Calm

[Scott Lloyd]

28 minutes ago, Calm said:

There are bishops (known one and heard of others) who refuse to allow anything but something in the hymn book played in Sacrament Meeting except perhaps prelude music.  Odd perhaps, but their rules. Whatever the reason a song was left out, if it wasn’t in the book, not allowed.

My guess with the one I knew is that he didn’t want to argue about the acceptability of a piece, it was a clear and easily understood by anyone standard. 

I’ve never known or encountered a bishop that pharisaical. 
 

The closest I’ve come is reading the posts of an erstwhile contributor to this board who wrote repeatedly and approvingly of his bishop who banned personal digital devices such as smart phones at Church meetings in his ward, even for reading the scriptures and other Church-produced content provided by the Church in versions expressly for use on such devices. 
 

I’ve wondered over the years since then what ever happened to that bishop and his weirdly draconian rule as digital devices have become all but universally pervasive in our Church worship services and classes. 

I thought of this one day in priesthood meeting. I don’t remember how long ago, now, but I know it has been at least a couple of years, because it predated the COVID shutdowns. I looked around in the classroom and realized that each and every one of the dozen-or-two attendees was using a digital device in preference to a paper copy of the scriptures. 

[Scott Lloyd]

4 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Yes, I know you said it's not this one, so I apologize for the irrelevant, irreverent diversion, but I couldn't resist!  

 

As long as you’ve opened the door to post links to secular songs by that title, I’m going to link to MY favorite “Stairway to Heaven” pop song, the one by Neil Sedaka:

 

[Navidad]

I sang Come Thou Fount and Hie to Kolob in a sacrament service trio. Also sang a solo version of "Birthday of a King" one of my favorite Christmas songs in a Christmas sacrament meeting. With all due respect, our congregational singing is pretty bad. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. We sang a hymn this past Sunday that right there in the hymnbook said "Brightly" at the top left of the page. It was sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. I have only ever been to a sacrament service in two wards. Both of them were sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! Is there never any acapella singing of hymns in the LDS church? That is a great tradition I miss. Sometimes my posts are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo longgggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg!

[JustAnAustralian]

2 hours ago, Navidad said:

Is there never any acapella singing of hymns in the LDS church?

Occasionally the pianist might lose their place and sit it out for the rest of the verse.

[Hamba Tuhan]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I’ve never known or encountered a bishop that pharisaical.

I have. When I first moved here, the bishop walked to the sacrament table, where I was sitting at the invitation of one of his counsellors, during the opening hymn and invited me to take my seat in the congregation because my shirt wasn't his preferred colour. This despite the fact that the Handbook clearly stated that bishops may not make such things mandatory for blessing or passing the sacrament. 

[pogi]

Time to bust out the ol' banjo!

Edited December 29, 2021 by pogi

[Stargazer]

6 hours ago, Navidad said:

Is there never any acapella singing of hymns in the LDS church?

Two members of the bishopric and I sang a hymn acapella in sacrament meeting many years ago. I was tenor, the bishop was melody, and the counselor was bass. We practiced a few times and everything went just great. Then we got up to sing, the pianist pinged out our notes, and we leapt into action. We didn't get very far before we realized that none of us were singing in the same key. So we stopped, looked at each other, and one of us said "Let's try that again." The pianist trotted out the three notes, and off we went. This time we were in tune and it went quite well, I thought.

Only one problem. I found the first attempt absolutely hilarious. I managed to not let the maniacal laughter out while we sang the three verses, but it was bubbling up and I was just barely holding it back for the entire performance. When we finished, they went back to their seats, and I walked out of the chapel and into the Relief Society room which was right out the chapel door, and then lost it, laughing my head off. I don't think anyone heard me. Anyway, after I had calmed down, I rejoined my family.

I've never forgotten that. I wish I could remember what hymn we were singing, but oh well.

[bsjkki]

We had ‘Mary did you know’ sung Sunday. My spouse despises that song. He says, the scriptures are quite clear that Mary knew. She saw an angel and all that. 
 

I do think it makes it challenging for Bishops to approve songs. I was in wards where hymn book only was a thing for sacrament meeting. 

[bluebell]

4 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

We had ‘Mary did you know’ sung Sunday. My spouse despises that song. He says, the scriptures are quite clear that Mary knew. She saw an angel and all that. 
 

I do think it makes it challenging for Bishops to approve songs. I was in wards where hymn book only was a thing for sacrament meeting. 

I'm with your husband, I really don't like that song.  

[pogi]

3 hours ago, pogi said:

Time to bust out the ol' banjo!

Could you imagine seeing this at church?  That would be so great!

Does this new change really open the door to that possibility if the local leaders are on-board?  Or, is that too much to hope for?  Despite the doors being potentially opened, I think it is going to take a LONG time before anything other than the piano, organ, flute, clarinet, violin, or cello are viewed as too devilish for sacrament meeting.  

The change is supposed to be more friendly to cultural influences, but the perspectives of what is considered "sacred music" has been so long engrained in our brains and culture that there is no Mormon cultural music outside of what we have always heard in sacrament meeting.  So, my question is how is anything new and different ever going to be viewed as culturally appropriate?  It is likely going to take many decades before we see a healthy array of different cultural musical influences and cultures in different areas and wards.  Until then, anything other than what has always been may seem culturally inappropriate.  

Edited December 29, 2021 by pogi

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, pogi said:

Could you imagine seeing this at church?  That would be so great!

Does this new change really open the door to that possibility if the local leaders are on-board?  Or, is that too much to hope for?  Despite the doors being potentially opened, I think it is going to take a LONG time before anything other than the piano, organ, flute, clarinet, violin, or cello are viewed as too devilish for sacrament meeting.  

The change is supposed to be more friendly to cultural influences, but the perspectives of what is considered "sacred music" has been so long engrained in our brains and culture that there is no Mormon cultural music outside of what we have always heard in sacrament meeting.  So, my question is how is anything new and different ever going to be viewed as culturally appropriate?  It is going to many decades before we see a healthy array of different cultural musical influences in different wards.  Until then, anything other than what has always been may seem culturally inappropriate.  

I agree.  Unless the handbook becomes explicit in what is allowed, there will probably be a lot of bishops that refuse to consider anything out of their comfort zone.