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Ward boundaries question


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I'd like to attend a Language Branch within my stake. 

Not sure the bishopric would agree as I have a family who attends our conventional unit, a ward. 

Since both units are online, I don't see the disconnect between me attending the language branch online and paying tithing there while my spouse and kids attend the conventional unit.

If I can't attend the language branch, I'd like to pay my tithing there. Somehow over 10 years ago we started paying tithing online ever since then the clerk can't see how much we pay so we bring the print-out from the Church's website to tithing settlement. So since the ward can't see the amoutn anyway, what's the problem?

Am I missing something? 

37.1.1

Membership in a Language Ward or Branch

  • Members must live within the boundaries of the language ward or branch.

  • Members may choose to be members of the language unit or their conventional unit.

  • Each person’s membership record should be in the unit he or she is attending.

Edited by nuclearfuels
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2 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

I'd like to attend a Language Branch within my stake. 

Not sure the bishopric would agree as I have a family who attends our conventional unit, a ward. 

Since both units are online, I don't see the disconnect between me attending the language branch online and paying tithing there while my spouse and kids attend the conventional unit.

If I can't attend the language branch, I'd like to pay my tithing there. Somehow over 10 years ago we started paying tithing online ever since then the clerk can't see how much we pay so we bring the print-out from the Church's website to tithing settlement. So since the ward can't see the amoutn anyway, what's the problem?

Am I missing something? 

37.1.1

Membership in a Language Ward or Branch

  • Members must live within the boundaries of the language ward or branch.

  • Members may choose to be members of the language unit or their conventional unit.

  • Each person’s membership record should be in the unit he or she is attending.

I'm with Cal, why does it matter to you where you pay your tithing?  It's not like fast offerings; it doesn't stay in the ward where it is paid.

Also, we've been paying tithing online for years and our ward can see how much we pay (they print out the paperwork and give it to us at tithing settlement, we don't ever print it out for them).  I'm not sure why your ward can't see your amount.

It sounds like you can choose to attend the language unit if you want, though it might be odd to request that your records are in a different ward than the records of your wife and children.  It doesn't sound like there are rules against it though.

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22 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Also, we've been paying tithing online for years and our ward can see how much we pay (they print out the paperwork and give it to us at tithing settlement, we don't ever print it out for them).  I'm not sure why your ward can't see your amount.

If it's paid directly to church headquarters then the ward can't see it.

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2 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

I'd like to attend a Language Branch within my stake. 

Not sure the bishopric would agree as I have a family who attends our conventional unit, a ward.

Maybe you should talk it over with the ward bishop, branch president and stake president (make it a mini-council of your own).  This might be a way for you to amplify your opportunities for service/ministering and to multiply your talents.  The stake president might receive inspiration as to where you should move your member record and pay tithing there?

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23 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

If it's paid directly to church headquarters then the ward can't see it.

If he's paying directly to church headquarters then why does he want to pay tithing in the other ward?  He's wondering, since the church can't see what he's paying anyway, why it would be a problem for him to pay tithing to that other ward, but if he's paying tithing to a specific ward, then the church would be able to see it, right?

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1)  The only reason they used to print the tithing slips is for the person to verify that it was accurate (to make sure no one is stealing your tithing payments that you donate)--- you don't need the numbers to declare your tithing payment status.   And you presumably review your online tithing payments so you know it got taken out of your account.  

2)  Fast offerings are different and go specifically to the ward in which they are paid.   If you want to pay them in a different ward, try stopping by their building and picking up envelopes and mailing it that bishop.

3)  There can be some measure of flexibility to support at least the small language wards, and welcoming  in that ward (can depend on the attitude of the volunteer --- they aren't inclined to like be rescued or patronized or talked over .....).   Presumably you could attend there all you want  (whether they'll send you the link to do it remotely is another question.

 

ETA:   Because the overflow of your assigned ward fast offerings already go to other wards in your stake that need them, you don't have to donate directly to a ward that you perceive as more needy.   Just be generous in your own ward.

Edited by rpn
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1 hour ago, bluebell said:

If he's paying directly to church headquarters then why does he want to pay tithing in the other ward?  He's wondering, since the church can't see what he's paying anyway, why it would be a problem for him to pay tithing to that other ward, but if he's paying tithing to a specific ward, then the church would be able to see it, right?

Yeah, I'm not really understanding that.

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You can have it both ways.

Currently I am a member of a foreign language branch and a member of the Ward of the geographical boundry that I live in.

I show up on both unit membership lists in the Tools App.

Edited by Danzo
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56 minutes ago, Danzo said:

You can have it both ways.

Currently I am a member of a foreign language branch and a member of the Ward of the geographical boundry that I live in.

I show up on both unit membership lists in the Tools App.

You have it both ways

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On 10/12/2021 at 9:31 AM, ksfisher said:

If it's paid directly to church headquarters then the ward can't see it.

Assistant ward clerk - finances here. 
 

If the donation is made through the “Donations” feature on the Church website, then the ward administration can see it.
 

At the end of every year, we are sent from Church headquarters a batch of PDFs with one for each tithe payer in the ward showing all the donations given during the year, which we are instructed to print out and give to the tithe payer in a sealed envelope prior to tithing settlement. This is the case whether the tithe payer has made a donation on line or put it in an envelope with a tithing slip and given it to a member of the bishopric. As a practical matter, though, our bishop never refers to the printout during tithing settlement; he only asks if the member has paid a full tithing. 
 

If you are referring to some means of transmitting the tithe payment to Church headquarters other than I have described above, then you may be right and the ward administration might not be privy to it. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If the donation is made through the “Donations” feature on the Church website, then the ward administration can see it.

Right

 

9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If you are referring to some means of transmitting the tithe payment to Church headquarters other than I have described above, then you may be right and the ward administration might not be privy to it. 

Yes, there is a way to pay directly to church headquarters that is not visible to the local unit.  Other than being aware of it I've never investigated further.

Edited by ksfisher
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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I am a Ward Clerk. When you pay your tithing online I can see it. If I wanted to. I don’t.

Unless you are doing a pay Salt Lake directly but then it would not matter what ward you “paid it” in.

I started paying my donations online directly to HQ when it first became available (in 2013), when you had to make a phone call to SLC to ask for the privilege. If I recall correctly, my ward could see those donations.

Now I live in the UK, and since my income is sourced from the US I continue to pay HQ directly (not through the donation feature in the church website). However, because they aren't donated in the UK, they don't show up in my ward's records when tithing settlement comes around. I do have a UK bank account and make fast offering donations through the church website from it -- and those DO show up to the ward.

 

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8 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

I'd like to attend a Language Branch within my stake. 

Not sure the bishopric would agree as I have a family who attends our conventional unit, a ward. 

Since both units are online, I don't see the disconnect between me attending the language branch online and paying tithing there while my spouse and kids attend the conventional unit.

If I can't attend the language branch, I'd like to pay my tithing there. Somehow over 10 years ago we started paying tithing online ever since then the clerk can't see how much we pay so we bring the print-out from the Church's website to tithing settlement. So since the ward can't see the amoutn anyway, what's the problem?

Am I missing something? 

37.1.1

Membership in a Language Ward or Branch

  • Members must live within the boundaries of the language ward or branch.

  • Members may choose to be members of the language unit or their conventional unit.

  • Each person’s membership record should be in the unit he or she is attending.

When you set up your online donation account there is a preference you can choose in the "Settings" page:
"My financial statements do not need to be printed by my Ward."

Is it possible that is checked and that is why the ward can't see it?

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On 10/12/2021 at 7:51 AM, nuclearfuels said:

I'd like to attend a Language Branch within my stake. 

This is usually not a problem. And, depending on the circumstances, might even be encouraged.

 

Quote

Not sure the bishopric would agree as I have a family who attends our conventional unit, a ward. 

I'm not entirely sure what what you are wanting to do.

Are you wanting to (1) attend the language branch by yourself in lieu of attending your home ward with your family? (2) Attend the language branch in addition to attending your home ward with your family? Or (3) have your entire family begin attending the language branch together?

I suspect your bishop is going to counsel you to attend church with your family wherever that may be.

 

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On 10/12/2021 at 5:51 AM, nuclearfuels said:

I'd like to attend a Language Branch within my stake. 

Not sure the bishopric would agree as I have a family who attends our conventional unit, a ward. 

Since both units are online, I don't see the disconnect between me attending the language branch online and paying tithing there while my spouse and kids attend the conventional unit.

If I can't attend the language branch, I'd like to pay my tithing there. Somehow over 10 years ago we started paying tithing online ever since then the clerk can't see how much we pay so we bring the print-out from the Church's website to tithing settlement. So since the ward can't see the amount anyway, what's the problem?

Am I missing something? 

37.1.1

Membership in a Language Ward or Branch

  • Members must live within the boundaries of the language ward or branch.

  • Members may choose to be members of the language unit or their conventional unit.

  • Each person’s membership record should be in the unit he or she is attending.

Just do it.  Like Nike says.  (I live close to their headquarters in Beaverton Oregon and I am a fan of catch phrases)

Also, just feel assured that your bishop would agree you should do what you are thinking you should do.  I am assured he would agree and I don't even know the man, but I do know the Lord, and he thinks you should do it.

And if you do attend the Language branch within your stake, you will still be a member of the ward you live in, and you can attend any ward meetings you want to attend, also, if and when you want to.  So just do it, if you haven't done it already.

 

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1 hour ago, Esrom said:

Maybe this is olden days stuff, but I thought it mattered back then where tithing was paid because wards kept up with statistics, i.e. percentage of tithe payers, as a measure of progress for that ward.  Am I mistaken?

They do keep statistics about that for each ward. Not sure how they use it. Here's an example

tithetrend.thumb.jpg.553ce76896b7235502c4db004dbd8e4f.jpg

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59 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Not sure how they use it

I could see it being used for two purposes:

1) Ward/Stake boundary adjustments (see sec 36.2 of handbook) -  Full tithe payers (along with TR holder %) is a good indication of active P/H numbers

2) Prospective building sites -

Related to 1, If an area is seeing large growth or consistency in high full tithe paying %, they might look at adding a new meetinghouse, stake centre, etc

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