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Will Divisions Regarding Masks Impact Activity?


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I would hope we all follow counsel.

The virus has killed more people in four months than any other disease world wide, including malaria.

It is nothing to ignore.

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It really makes it hard for us lip readers. I'm hearing impaired and I never realized until now how much I depended on lip reading. 

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Wow, I can't believe I hadn't thought about that given I have been bothered by trying to read expression from just eyes and forehead (are they smiling or interested, etc.).  That must make a huge difference for those who use lip reading to communicate.

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At this point I don’t know if this prediction is accurate, but how sad if it is and we are not doing something about it. Here is hoping areas that are mandated show enough signs of improvement the rest voluntarily do it, enough so that the remaining protestors don’t have a significant effect and cases drop. 
 

Quote

The CDC says the virus would be controlled within two months if everyone wears masks. In a discussion led by the Journal of the American Medical Association on Tuesday, Robert Redfield, MD, the director of the CDC, said that if everyone in the United States wore a mask, the coronavirus pandemic could be "under control" within four to eight weeks

From my med app, so no link

I am imagining two scenarios, a person gets to heaven who was pro masking, finds out it was overkill after all and finds out his inappropriate and ultimately unnecessary abuse of his fellows caused some significant issues for them, including lost friendships and a few stopped going to church for awhile. 
 

Or a person gets to heaven who was anti masking and finds out his spreading of false information to friends and families and protests to prevent kids from wearing masks resulted in the deaths of a mother, a couple of fathers, and several grandparents and older people in his neighbourhood because he was asymptomatic, infected his family and friends, who spread it to others.  Plus all those he helped push towards refusal to wear and their impact....
 

I would much rather be in the first category than the latter, but hopefully those of us who are promaskers are trying to persuade others rather than bully them and if that fails, at least be civil when explaining requirements of “no, you will not be allowed in my business, home, class without a mask”.  
 

But it is awful when this conflict is between family members.  

Edited by Calm
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2 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

For the people i know who’ve Lost their faith, it usually is a culmination of experiences, thought patterns, etc that lead to the dissolution. So mask wearing by itself in either direction isn’t likely to do it. But if they’re at the end of their rope, i could see people’s attitudes toward it being a bigger trial for them than others. 
 

personally it’s a non-issue for me. When we received the news that our ward would start meeting monthly again, I had a simple spiritual experience that confirmed that it was best we stay home for a long while to come. It was both the logical and confirmed answer for us to do. And that was that for me. I’ve trusted that answer and there’s no need for me to sweat what others are Doing at church, though i hope they’re following the guidance set out. 
 

That said it’s been interesting to watch as we venture out and see masks become more and more important in the last few weeks and to see the last section of society in my area push against masks. I know they see it as a virtue and fight for freedom of choice. I’ve listened to the arguments more than once. Particularly since several (at least as of a couple weeks ago before i went on hiatus from FB) are my relatives. I was in the grocery store watching a couple passive aggressive stances towards masks and some blatant arguments over them as a lady insisted on speaking to the manager about mask wearing and her right not to wear one. And honestly it looks less like a virtue and more of a stance built on pride and selfishness fronting as a virtue.
I’ve seen the behavior they exhibit from time to time in myself particularly when i was younger and didn’t want to do something and justified basically not doing it till i was pushed into it. Pride to me is insidious because we usually feel fairly justified in holding it...we don’t usually see the cost of it right away. I have been intrigued by this real-time experiment in our moral values and limits. 


with luv,

BD

Same here, with the relatives. :(

Maybe God is testing us all on this one. Pretty ticked that the elderly are usually the ones that die because of it though. Or God said he's sick of seeing them suffer, who knows. 

It's just a mask though, and it's a mask in public places, not in our homes or in nature etc. The only ones I see a problem wearing it really are the students and teachers at the schools. I hope they come up with something that will work. The clear plastic face shields might be a better option for breathing and for reading lips etc. 

Thanks for your input BD!

ETA: Here's a photo with what I'm talking about:

Image may contain: 1 person

 

Edited by Tacenda
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It is not known if face shields provide any benefit as source control to protect others from the spray of respiratory particles. CDC does not recommend use of face shields for normal everyday activities or as a substitute for cloth face coverings. Some people may choose to use a face shield when sustained close contact with other people is expected. If face shields are used without a mask, they should wrap around the sides of the wearer’s face and extend to below the chin. Disposable face shields should only be worn for a single use. Reusable face shields should be cleaned and disinfected after each use. Plastic face shields for newborns and infants are NOT recommended.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html
 

They might catch some droplets on the inside of the shield, likely slow them down so they don’t travel as far, but they wouldn’t catch as much I am guessing. 

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I appreciate this from my bishop in an email about church starting in August:

"This is a voluntary return.  Those that feel this is too early to return because of current health risks or because they fall into a compromised category should continue to worship at home and are authorized and encouraged to continue take the sacrament at home.

"We are not keeping score on who attends or does not attend.  This is a very personal choice for each family and should be prayerfully decided by each individual and family. Your decision does not show or reflect your dedication to the gospel of Jesus Christ.  Those that return are not more dedicated and those that choose to wait are not less dedicated.  The prophet has been teaching us since he became prophet to rely on personal revelation, and in this we are exercising this principal."

Edited by Rain
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On 7/16/2020 at 7:49 PM, california boy said:

I live in San Francisco and I ride my bike a lot throughout the city.  I rarely see anyone, young or old not wearing a mask.  I wear my mask while bike riding.  I don't think I am at risk to myself or others because I am never in close proximity to anyone, but I think it sends a message that we are all in this together and we all need to watch out for others.  Anything we can do to cut down on the exposure to this virus is exactly what we should be doing.  It makes me sad that helping others and ourselves from getting sick has become a political statement.  

There is a reason why surgeons and nurses wear masks while dealing with sickness.  Would these people be ok with their surgeon saying, sorry, I don't believe in masks, and it is a big hoax, so I am just going to operate on you without a mask today.  It is my constitutional right to do so. 

I've been dismayed by the negative division that has developed between not wearing masks and wearing masks, to the point where it has become so polarizing.  I think it may be because some view it as, and desire to use it (either wear a mask or not wear a mask), to 'send a message' to others.  Because of that, these individuals are judging others by their own personal opinions of what wearing a mask means to them, which really is unfair to project onto others.  People can have different reasons for wearing a mask and for not wearing a mask, and it really shouldn't involve just another way to identify like minded people or be used to make assumptions about others.  In particular, we could try to be more charitable and not make judgments, assuming that if someone is wearing a mask, that means they care about others and if they don't, then they don't care about others. 

 

I also think that if members are going back to church, they should leave this attitude at the door, and not bring it in, if they find themselves judging others at church, counting how many are wearing masks and making note of the ones who aren't, then they are, IMO, not helping to bring the Spirit into their meetings.  I feel it is detrimental to our desire to fellowship and show love for others in our Congregations.

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in our ward today there about 40 people there and last week was the same amount. They split the ward alphabetically so i'm in the second group. I'd say about 15 people didn't wear masks, I did but I could care less who did or didn't, it's a non issue. Where I am covid hasn't hit us hard at all, it's all that Ontario and Alberta riff raff we worry about 🤭

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22 minutes ago, Duncan said:

in our ward today there about 40 people there and last week was the same amount. They split the ward alphabetically so i'm in the second group. I'd say about 15 people didn't wear masks, I did but I could care less who did or didn't, it's a non issue. Where I am covid hasn't hit us hard at all, it's all that Ontario and Alberta riff raff we worry about 🤭

There's nothing good east of Calgary.

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2 minutes ago, USU78 said:

There's nothing good east of Calgary.

ha

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3 minutes ago, USU78 said:

There's nothing good east of Calgary.

ha

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3 minutes ago, USU78 said:

There's nothing good east of Calgary.

ha

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9 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Same here, with the relatives. :(

Maybe God is testing us all on this one. Pretty ticked that the elderly are usually the ones that die because of it though. Or God said he's sick of seeing them suffer, who knows. 

It's just a mask though, and it's a mask in public places, not in our homes or in nature etc. The only ones I see a problem wearing it really are the students and teachers at the schools. I hope they come up with something that will work. The clear plastic face shields might be a better option for breathing and for reading lips etc. 

Thanks for your input BD!

ETA: Here's a photo with what I'm talking about:

Image may contain: 1 person

 

I’ve seen a few families with these. Seems especially smart for younger kids! One of my friends is a highschool teacher and among worrying about illness, there’s just so much up in the air. Most of my friends assume at some point they’ll likely be doing online school again

Edited by BlueDreams
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At the very least it can get kids more comfortable wearing stuff on their face.  And help them feel a part of things and not get worried they will get sick because not wearing a mask like everyone else.  I think it a good idea for that as long as it doesn’t give parents a false sense of security. 
 

I doubt shields will help very much as I said before prevent them catching it (as cloth masks appear to have some self preventative coverage from recent study, not surprising) especially as it allows hands to touch anywhere on the face, but I doubt anything is going to stop that much. Having kids frequently wash hands or use hand sanitizer when in stores etc seems the thing that might help there.  I doubt if you can prevent any exposure even with constant vigilance by that path, it would be for cutting down to a viral load they can resist by not have the same set virus stay on their hands all day and multiple contacts adding more each time rather than resetting hands to zero each time they wash.   Thankfully surface to face transmissions aren’t as likely as once thought. Still enough to be careful. 
 

I would be interested to see how well shields stops spread. Imagine how they would work out in the cold air, does their breath billow out the sides to the same amount as it would to the front without them? Do the droplets hit the shield and stay there while the CO2 and rest of the air blow off through the sides?  Do aerosols hit and stay on the shield where they would have passed through cloth or are they so light their momentum isn’t enough to take them all the way to the shield before the air current pushes them out the sides or down?  

I am thinking it might increase danger for those next to them while cutting down significantly to the front. All depends on how much aerosols are involved in transmissions I guess. 
 

Hope they do tests so I can see if I am right or totally bonkers on this. :) 
 

I would say definitely have kids wearing them in mandated areas if you can get them to in order to help them feel safe as they may worry they will be at risk. It is hard to predict how kids worry about things and they don’t always tell you. Took us awhile for our 2/3? year old son to tell us he was refusing to hold our hands because he thought his hands would pop off like his toy. I felt awful he was thinking that could happen to him for days, maybe weeks.  Plus the advantage of getting them used to stuff around their face, helpful if they are placed into situations where it is required like a hospital. Or school or just visiting grandparents.  And they won’t be two for very long, if mandates go up in fall and winter if we get another surge and vaccines aren’t available yet, places may require masks for 3 and above.

Edited by Calm
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49 minutes ago, Calm said:

At the very least it can get kids more comfortable wearing stuff on their face.  And help them feel a part of things and not get worried they will get sick because not wearing a mask like everyone else.  I think it a good idea for that as long as it doesn’t give parents a false sense of security. 
 

I doubt shields will help very much as I said before prevent them catching it (as cloth masks appear to have some self preventative coverage from recent study, not surprising) especially as it allows hands to touch anywhere on the face, but I doubt anything is going to stop that much. Having kids frequently wash hands or use hand sanitizer when in stores etc seems the thing that might help there.  I doubt if you can prevent any exposure even with constant vigilance by that path, it would be for cutting down to a viral load they can resist by not have the same set virus stay on their hands all day and multiple contacts adding more each time rather than resetting hands to zero each time they wash.   Thankfully surface to face transmissions aren’t as likely as once thought. Still enough to be careful. 
 

I would be interested to see how well shields stops spread. Imagine how they would work out in the cold air, does their breath billow out the sides to the same amount as it would to the front without them? Do the droplets hit the shield and stay there while the CO2 and rest of the air blow off through the sides?  Do aerosols hit and stay on the shield where they would have passed through cloth or are they so light their momentum isn’t enough to take them all the way to the shield before the air current pushes them out the sides or down?  

I am thinking it might increase danger for those next to them while cutting down significantly to the front. All depends on how much aerosols are involved in transmissions I guess. 
 

Hope they do tests so I can see if I am right or totally bonkers on this. :) 
 

I would say definitely have kids wearing them in mandated areas if you can get them to in order to help them feel safe as they may worry they will be at risk. It is hard to predict how kids worry about things and they don’t always tell you. Took us awhile for our 2/3? year old son to tell us he was refusing to hold our hands because he thought his hands would pop off like his toy. I felt awful he was thinking that could happen to him for days, maybe weeks.  Plus the advantage of getting them used to stuff around their face, helpful if they are placed into situations where it is required like a hospital. Or school or just visiting grandparents.  And they won’t be two for very long, if mandated go up in fall and winter if we get another surge and vaccines aren’t available yet, places may require masks for 3 and above. I’m

https://www.aarp.org/health/healthy-living/info-2020/shields-compared-to-masks.html

Found this article, still trying to find a more recent article, especially one that shows the droplets floating around, like the ones for masks. It mentioned that they are using the face shields in schools coming up. So who knows... 

Quote from article:

Lauren Lek, head of school at Academy of Our Lady of Peace, in San Diego, plans to have her 750 returning faculty and students wear face shields at school rather than masks this August. “Safety and health for our community is a priority for us in reopening,” she says. “As soon as we saw from the CDC [Centers for Disease Control and Prevention] and our local public health office that face shields would be an acceptable alternative to face masks, we knew this was a direction we wanted to move in.”

Kristi Carnahan, a registered nurse in the Emergency Department at Stanford Hospital in Palo Alto, California, says she also wears a mask beneath her plastic face shield to provide more “protection against anything in the air getting into your mouth or nose as you breathe."

That reasoning may make sense in a health care setting, says Adalja, but “I don't think you get much added benefit to wearing a mask if you've already got a face shield on, for the average person.” The odds of the viral particles floating upwards under your shield are a long shot for most of us, he adds: “Someone would have to stand underneath you and sneeze up into you. It would be an odd circumstance that would cause that.”

https://www.aarp.org/health/healthy-living/info-2020/shields-compared-to-masks.html

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47 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

That reasoning may make sense in a health care setting, says Adalja, but “I don't think you get much added benefit to wearing a mask if you've already got a face shield on, for the average person.” The odds of the viral particles floating upwards under your shield are a long shot for most of us, he adds: “Someone would have to stand underneath you and sneeze up into you. It would be an odd circumstance that would cause that.”

This ignores what happens to your droplets for someone else though. 
 

There is also the issue of someone sneezing on your clothes, your hands touching that and then touching your face. 

Edited by Calm
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Here’s a popular (type) article that covers face shields and masks with clear inserts (basically you need to ensure seal around insert to avoid leaks).

https://people.com/health/face-shields-face-masks-most-effective-coronavirus/

This one speculates it is better for most situations outside of health care because it covers eyes (not yet demonstrated transmission avenue but likely) as well as nose and mouth and one is less likely to fiddle with it, so less touching of face for that. Also cooler and less likely to get tossed on sidewalk for someone else to pick up. 
 

Definitely from the POV of getting infected except for the mask garbage. 
 

https://www.aarp.org/health/healthy-living/info-2020/shields-compared-to-masks.html

Edited by Calm
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Yep. I want to see studies. 

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On 7/18/2020 at 7:27 AM, california boy said:

If masks are some kind of hoax, 

Who said masks are a hoax?  I certainly never did.  I don't know of a single governor who calls masks a hoax.  Maybe you can find one.

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