Will Divisions Regarding Masks Impact Activity?

[Bernard Gui]

31 minutes ago, Ahab said:

What part seems difficult to you?  Wearing a mask?  Staying at least 6' away from others?  Washing your hands before you touch your (or their) mouth or nose or eyes?

I can see the need for some new equipment, maybe... like some 6' long poles with grabbers on them to grab some things, maybe.  Like to grab some child to stop him or her from getting too close to some other child, maybe.

You haven't been in a kindergarten class for how many decades now? They are still babies.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[Ahab]

5 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

You haven't been in a kindergarten class for how many decades now? They are still babies.

Oh, you're talking that young.  Pffftt.  Fagetaboutit.  Their own Mommies and Daddies, or grandparents, are the only ones who should be doing that now unless it is known for sure that others do not have the COVID thing.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

How do you do that in a kindergarten class?

At least ages 10 and below appear to be half as likely to pass on the infection. 

[Bernard Gui]

22 minutes ago, Calm said:

At least ages 10 and below appear to be half as likely to pass on the infection. 

Luke Skywalker and the Death Star.

[Bernard Gui]

10 hours ago, Ahab said:

Oh, you're talking that young.  Pffftt.  Fagetaboutit.  Their own Mommies and Daddies, or grandparents, are the only ones who should be doing that now unless it is known for sure that others do not have the COVID thing.

No, kindergarten teachers do not change diapers, but the kids do have accidents in the class.

They do wipe snotty noses, get coughed and sneezed on, touch kids' hands to teach how to use scissors and pencils, zip up coats, tie shoes, open lunch bags and juice cartons, dry tears, separate combatants, have kids cling to them when they miss their mommies, pick  up tantrumming kids from the floor, and many more things you can't even imagine. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

You haven't been in a kindergarten class for how many decades now? They are still babies.

I have, often! They sit on a rug with rows of squares a couple of times per day or more, right next to each other. I guess they'll need to change that. I just don't know how they're going to manage. Maybe it will help to have some home/online schooling for those that choose. I guess it's a wait and see thing. Good luck to you and your wife. 

Edited July 21, 2020 by Tacenda

[Ahab]

17 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

No, kindergarten teachers do not change diapers, but the kids do have accidents in the class.

They do wipe snotty noses, get coughed and sneezed on, touch kids' hands to teach how to use scissors and pencils, zip up coats, tie shoes, open lunch bags and juice cartons, dry tears, separate combatants, have kids cling to them when they miss their mommies, pick  kids up tantrumming kids from the floor, and many more things you can't even imagine. 

i can imagine the kinds of things young people need help with.  I just wasn't thinking about babies when I said what I said earlier because with babies it isn't possible to always stay at least 6' away from them to help take care of them.

It does become easier as children get older, though.   To safely wipe a child's nose it would be important to wash your hands both before and after wiping it and while wearing both a mask and a face shield as you do it. 

If they have the COVID thing while they cough or sneeze on your wife, then she would likely catch the COVID thing from them.  Do you understand that? Do you think your wife should risk her health like that if she doesn't need to?

She could teach children how to do some things and do some things for them without compromising her health.  It just takes an awareness of what is risky and coming up with a way to do things safely.

Safety suits, aka PPE, is available and the cost isn't too terribly expensive.  And they do come in several colors, rather than only yellow.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Ahab

[Traela]

I work in a kindergarten, and those kids do NOT social distance.  However, requiring them to wear masks or face shields is completely reasonable.  Little kids are pretty flexible about meeting new rules if the parents are not undermining the school.

There was a Facebook post going around recently about a kindergartener with cystic fibrosis who had to wear a mask to school if he didn’t want to end up in the hospital.  His classmates were totally on board with “we need to keep our friend safe” and washed their hands and stayed home if they had any sniffles.  The teacher said she had never had a class with so little illness.

 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Traela said:

I work in a kindergarten, and those kids do NOT social distance.  However, requiring them to wear masks or face shields is completely reasonable.  Little kids are pretty flexible about meeting new rules if the parents are not undermining the school.

There was a Facebook post going around recently about a kindergartener with cystic fibrosis who had to wear a mask to school if he didn’t want to end up in the hospital.  His classmates were totally on board with “we need to keep our friend safe” and washed their hands and stayed home if they had any sniffles.  The teacher said she had never had a class with so little illness.

 

We had a kid with severe peanut allergy and other with food allergies. The class adjusted, parents either did the right foods or didn’t interfere. 
 

There were also various kids with special needs that were mainstreamed.  The kids in the class did not complain about having to do somethings differently, but instead made sure their friend’s needs were met when they could help out. 
 

If you can get the adults on board, kids will follow. 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Traela said:

I work in a kindergarten, and those kids do NOT social distance.  However, requiring them to wear masks or face shields is completely reasonable.  Little kids are pretty flexible about meeting new rules if the parents are not undermining the school.

There was a Facebook post going around recently about a kindergartener with cystic fibrosis who had to wear a mask to school if he didn’t want to end up in the hospital.  His classmates were totally on board with “we need to keep our friend safe” and washed their hands and stayed home if they had any sniffles.  The teacher said she had never had a class with so little illness.

 

So right on this one, kids are more compliant about the care of others than adults sometimes! 

[Bernard Gui]

9 hours ago, Ahab said:

i can imagine the kinds of things young people need help with.  I just wasn't thinking about babies when I said what I said earlier because with babies it isn't possible to always stay at least 6' away from them to help take care of them.

It does become easier as children get older, though.   To safely wipe a child's nose it would be important to wash your hands both before and after wiping it and while wearing both a mask and a face shield as you do it. 

If they have the COVID thing while they cough or sneeze on your wife, then she would likely catch the COVID thing from them.  Do you understand that? Do you think your wife should risk her health like that if she doesn't need to?

She could teach children how to do some things and do some things for them without compromising her health.  It just takes an awareness of what is risky and coming up with a way to do things safely.

Safety suits, aka PPE, is available and the cost isn't too terribly expensive.  And they do come in several colors, rather than only yellow.

I don’t think you are quite getting the picture of what actually happens in kindergarten. Safety suits are not an option.

[Bernard Gui]

6 hours ago, Tacenda said:

So right on this one, kids are more compliant about the care of others than adults sometimes! 

Well, some kids are and some kids are not. 5 year olds come to school with a huge spread of social, emotional, self-control, and learning skills. Sister Gui belongs to a district-wide sharing group of almost 50 k teachers. They are universally extremely concerned. So far there is has been no viable plan offered to open schools for this age group and school starts up in about 5 weeks.

My daughter Bellalindissima and granddaughter Princesca work in a public library. Princesca contracted COVID two weeks ago. The library was closed and all workers quarantined. Their family was quarantined for two weeks, and then another two weeks were added because the parents tested negative and they had to wait to see if they developed symptoms. Dad cannot go to his work. That’s a month with no income. If a student or teacher tests positive, then all students in the class and their families will be quarantined. At this point the only real option is on-line school. Figure that one out for kindergartners. How many parents can spend that much time with a child? What if there are several kids in the home doing on-line school? And the first death that results from exposure in school? Lawyers’ Nirvana.

Multiply that by 800 kids and 80 staff and the problem starts to come into focus. And that’s just one school.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

17 hours ago, Traela said:

I work in a kindergarten, and those kids do NOT social distance.  However, requiring them to wear masks or face shields is completely reasonable.  Little kids are pretty flexible about meeting new rules if the parents are not undermining the school.

There was a Facebook post going around recently about a kindergartener with cystic fibrosis who had to wear a mask to school if he didn’t want to end up in the hospital.  His classmates were totally on board with “we need to keep our friend safe” and washed their hands and stayed home if they had any sniffles.  The teacher said she had never had a class with so little illness.

 

“Pretty flexible” doesn’t  cut it with COVID, or so we are told every day.

Imagine the logistics of one adult tasked with getting 20-25 kindergartners to keep their masks or shields on all the time, swapping out masks that get damaged, wet, or goobered up, properly disposing used masks, fixing kids who sneeze, cough, or throw up in their masks, constantly washing hands in one sink, sanitizing work places and toilets multiple times per day, etc., etc., etc. And that’s multiplied by the number of classrooms in the school. Keeping them in one room all day even during lunch when the masks come off, or trying to enforce masks and social distancing at recess. Does the teacher have to wash her hands every time she touches a student or a surface they have been touching? How do you social distance on a school bus? It’s simply not viable.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[Tacenda]

6 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Well, some kids are and some kids are not. 5 year olds come to school with a huge spread of social, emotional, self-control, and learning skills. Sister Gui belongs to a district-wide sharing group of almost 50 k teachers. They are universally extremely concerned. So far there is has been no viable plan offered to open schools for this age group and school starts up in about 5 weeks.

My daughter Bellalindissima and granddaughter Princesca work in a public library. Princesca contracted COVID two weeks ago. The library was closed and all workers quarantined. Their family was quarantined for two weeks, and then another two weeks were added because the parents tested negative and they had to wait to see if they developed symptoms. Dad cannot go to his work. That’s a month with no income. If a student or teacher tests positive, then all students in the class and their families will be quarantined. At this point the only real option is on-line school. Figure that one out for kindergartners. How many parents can spend that much time with a child? What if there are several kids in the home doing on-line school? And the first death that results from exposure in school? Lawyers’ Nirvana.

Multiply that by 800 kids and 80 staff and the problem starts to come into focus. And that’s just one school.

Oh MY!!!!

[Daniel2]

17 hours ago, Traela said:

I work in a kindergarten, and those kids do NOT social distance.  However, requiring them to wear masks or face shields is completely reasonable.  Little kids are pretty flexible about meeting new rules if the parents are not undermining the school.

There was a Facebook post going around recently about a kindergartener with cystic fibrosis who had to wear a mask to school if he didn’t want to end up in the hospital.  His classmates were totally on board with “we need to keep our friend safe” and washed their hands and stayed home if they had any sniffles.  The teacher said she had never had a class with so little illness.

 

What a great and inspiring story.

FWIW, the CDC does recommend that healthy children age 2 and older SHOULD be wearing masks, and I agree that they CAN do that, especially when their parents are on-board and supportive.  From the CDC's website:

Quote

Who Should Wear A Cloth Face Covering?

 General public

 

• CDC recommends all people 2 years of age and older wear a cloth face covering in public settings and when around people who don’t live in your household, especially when other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain

Edited July 22, 2020 by Daniel2

[Daniel2]

6 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Well, some kids are and some kids are not. 5 year olds come to school with a huge spread of social, emotional, self-control, and learning skills. Sister Gui belongs to a district-wide sharing group of almost 50 k teachers. They are universally extremely concerned. So far there is has been no viable plan offered to open schools for this age group and school starts up in about 5 weeks.

My daughter Bellalindissima and granddaughter Princesca work in a public library. Princesca contracted COVID two weeks ago. The library was closed and all workers quarantined. Their family was quarantined for two weeks, and then another two weeks were added because the parents tested negative and they had to wait to see if they developed symptoms. Dad cannot go to his work. That’s a month with no income. If a student or teacher tests positive, then all students in the class and their families will be quarantined. At this point the only real option is on-line school. Figure that one out for kindergartners. How many parents can spend that much time with a child? What if there are several kids in the home doing on-line school? And the first death that results from exposure in school? Lawyers’ Nirvana.

Multiply that by 800 kids and 80 staff and the problem starts to come into focus. And that’s just one school.

I agree that online school seems preferable, from a health perspective, for sure. Clearly, it comes with it's own set of alternate challenges, but from a strictly medical standpoint, and preserving each others' health, online does seem the safest.

[HappyJackWagon]

18 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

You haven't been in a kindergarten class for how many decades now? They are still babies.

My wife teaches the same age group. Masks in early elementary school just aren't feasible, which puts the higher risk individuals in jeopardy. Kids that age won't social distance and they won't be able to wear masks. At that age they are learning how to socially interact with others and how to speak properly etc. It's very tough for that age group to learn from someone when they can't see their face. See the way they form words, or their expressions etc.

My wife isn't high risk but it still makes me uncomfortable. And it comes down to a choice between safety and a job. It stinks. Best of luck to you and your wife, whatever you decide to do.

[HappyJackWagon]

On 7/16/2020 at 11:46 AM, MustardSeed said:

As I see large groups of active members and particularly people in my ward get assertive and aggressive about their position on masks I feel more alienated.  I wonder if people will feel like I feel and take that alienation mean a loss of testimony? (I don’t, but I certainly feel less unity and more comfort worshiping from home.)

In my area members are extremely anti-mask. Masks are an infringement of liberty, yada, yada. They aren't going to wear a mask to church but they will definitely wear a gun on their hip, with or without church policy dictating otherwise. I am expecting to take a lengthy hiatus. 

The rumor on the street is that church will be starting for us in 2 weeks. Guess how much communication we've received about that from ward and stake leaders. Zero. I only know about it because of friends within the stake in other wards who have been told. Their bishops have polled people to gauge comfort levels, needs etc. They've discussed how the wards will split into separate groups for worship. They've discussed how the sacrament will be administered etc. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from our ward. We haven't even heard anything directly from Stake leaders. I assume they're letting ward leadership handle it. It's baffling.

Continued hiatus is looking good. Really good.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Daniel2 said:

I agree that online school seems preferable, from a health perspective, for sure. Clearly, it comes with it's own set of alternate challenges, but from a strictly medical standpoint, and preserving each others' health, online does seem the safest.

Until, we have the problem of working parents.  It seems that so many great options could be out there for families otherwise. I have a friend that teaches and she came up with a great plan where the students would go half day until lunch and then the next group come in for the next half. So no lunch provided, since they can eat at home!  She presented it in a meeting I believe, but the problem is that parents that work, can't be home for that half day.  So what to do, what to do.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Tacenda

[Bernard Gui]

54 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

My wife teaches the same age group. Masks in early elementary school just aren't feasible, which puts the higher risk individuals in jeopardy. Kids that age won't social distance and they won't be able to wear masks. At that age they are learning how to socially interact with others and how to speak properly etc. It's very tough for that age group to learn from someone when they can't see their face. See the way they form words, or their expressions etc.

My wife isn't high risk but it still makes me uncomfortable. And it comes down to a choice between safety and a job. It stinks. Best of luck to you and your wife, whatever you decide to do.

There are many teachers over 60 and many more with health issues. For example, the principle at Sister Gui's school is 53, but she has had 3 heart attacks. What becomes of her if the schools are opened? If they put the high risk people in desk or on-line jobs, there aren't enough younger teachers to fill in the vacancies. Thanks for your kind thoughts. It's a dilemma. 

[Bernard Gui]

The local teachers union has pointed out the interesting fact that the governor, state school board, superintendents, and local school boards and principals are making these decisions about putting kids back in school in meetings via ZOOM or other electronic media, not in rooms with each other. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

In my area members are extremely anti-mask. Masks are an infringement of liberty, yada, yada. They aren't going to wear a mask to church but they will definitely wear a gun on their hip, with or without church policy dictating otherwise. I am expecting to take a lengthy hiatus. 

The rumor on the street is that church will be starting for us in 2 weeks. Guess how much communication we've received about that from ward and stake leaders. Zero. I only know about it because of friends within the stake in other wards who have been told. Their bishops have polled people to gauge comfort levels, needs etc. They've discussed how the wards will split into separate groups for worship. They've discussed how the sacrament will be administered etc. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from our ward. We haven't even heard anything directly from Stake leaders. I assume they're letting ward leadership handle it. It's baffling.

Continued hiatus is looking good. Really good.

Nothing much from my new ward, but my old ward has youtube conversations from the bishop and counselors, by teaching lesson, giving talks, congratulating those getting married, or missionaries leaving and coming home and current news. How I wish more wards could experience it. 

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

In my area members are extremely anti-mask. Masks are an infringement of liberty, yada, yada. They aren't going to wear a mask to church but they will definitely wear a gun on their hip, with or without church policy dictating otherwise. I am expecting to take a lengthy hiatus. 

The rumor on the street is that church will be starting for us in 2 weeks. Guess how much communication we've received about that from ward and stake leaders. Zero. I only know about it because of friends within the stake in other wards who have been told. Their bishops have polled people to gauge comfort levels, needs etc. They've discussed how the wards will split into separate groups for worship. They've discussed how the sacrament will be administered etc. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from our ward. We haven't even heard anything directly from Stake leaders. I assume they're letting ward leadership handle it. It's baffling.

Continued hiatus is looking good. Really good.

Here in Washington, the further you get away from Seattle and Olympia, the less strident the people are about mask wearing. And we have the silliness of banning church and social gatherings, but allowing protests and rioting without restrictions. I'm about 40 miles south of Seattle in Pierce County, and while we have the same limitations put on us, the folks here are not nearly as militant as those up north and down in Olympia. 

We have no indication when church meetings will be resumed. The governor has mandated state-wide masks and limited social gatherings to 5 or 10 people or less (including family groups), depending on county status. 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

There are many teachers over 60 and many more with health issues. For example, the principle at Sister Gui's school is 53, but she has had 3 heart attacks. What becomes of her if the schools are opened? If they put the high risk people in desk or on-line jobs, there aren't enough younger teachers to fill in the vacancies. Thanks for your kind thoughts. It's a dilemma. 

I thought you and your wife, would probably agree with this perspective.

https://blog.usejournal.com/i-spent-three-weeks-in-school-with-kids-under-covid-19-21b78c1a9339

[Ahab]

On 7/22/2020 at 1:13 AM, Bernard Gui said:

I don’t think you are quite getting the picture of what actually happens in kindergarten. Safety suits are not an option.

You could call them Minion suits.  Safety suits should be an option.