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Will Divisions Regarding Masks Impact Activity?


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As I see large groups of active members and particularly people in my ward get assertive and aggressive about their position on masks I feel more alienated.  I wonder if people will feel like I feel and take that alienation mean a loss of testimony? (I don’t, but I certainly feel less unity and more comfort worshiping from home.)

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I don't know about a loss of testimony because I don't see what masks have to do with testimony. From my own point of view, when church resumes where I live (which is forthcoming) if I feel uncomfortable because people aren't wearing masks and/or physically distancing I will simply choose to remain home. We have been told unequivocally in my ward/stake that staying home is an option without judgement and authorization to continue the sacrament at home is in place. The mask issue seems more social/political than religious. For what it's worth, I live in a place where masks are required in public and where I perceive most church members are in favor of masks. 

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11 minutes ago, Boanerges said:

I don't know about a loss of testimony because I don't see what masks have to do with testimony. 

I think it is the absence from attending in person Church that would be viewed as "loss of testimony".  

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I’m referring more to the experience of looking around and realizing “I have so little in common with these angry and ill informed people” and then feeling a sense of non belonging.  That can make a person question a lot of things, and it does, quite often.  Not just with masks.  
I think this is why politix are discouraged. 

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21 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I’m referring more to the experience of looking around and realizing “I have so little in common with these angry and ill informed people” and then feeling a sense of non belonging.  That can make a person question a lot of things, and it does, quite often.  Not just with masks.  
I think this is why politix are discouraged. 

I hear ya, my son in law and daughter were saying it's bad to breath in carbon dioxide by wearing masks. What to do, what to do. They go to the gym a lot too, I watch their daughter, my granddaughter...and sometimes I just cringe that they may contract covid. 

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1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

As I see large groups of active members and particularly people in my ward get assertive and aggressive about their position on masks I feel more alienated.  I wonder if people will feel like I feel and take that alienation mean a loss of testimony? (I don’t, but I certainly feel less unity and more comfort worshiping from home.)

I have wondered about this.  I'm sure with my work with refugees and asylum seekers and my talking about women has already caused some wondering about my testimony. (Utah in general is somewhat liberal compared to my stake). I'm only in my early 50s and while I am open about my type 1 diabetes it is not something I really talk about with most ward members so I'm not sure if most people would know why I stayed home. I also have not been to many activities in the past few years. 

 

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5 hours ago, provoman said:

I think it is the absence from attending in person Church that would be viewed as "loss of testimony".  

Maybe if your bishop is a caveman.

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4 hours ago, Calm said:

Yes, that is why you hear of such extensive brain damage of surgeons who do hours long surgeries, sometimes multiples per day. (you actually don’t hear of this in case anyone missed my sarcasm)

Any of them go snorkeling?  If so, you might point out that would be much worse if an actual problem. 
 

Carbon dioxide particles are much smaller than the droplets the masks are designed to catch. The CO2 will easily leak out the mask, either through the mask or out the sides. Only airtight masks would be an issue. 

What about OR nurses and techs? Surgeons are generally in the OR for a few hours a week. The nurses and techs are there 40+ hours. I know, I used to be one. No discernible brain damage here, but I suppose that might be debatable by some.

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1 hour ago, Boanerges said:

What about OR nurses and techs? Surgeons are generally in the OR for a few hours a week. The nurses and techs are there 40+ hours. I know, I used to be one. No discernible brain damage here, but I suppose that might be debatable by some.

Good to know. 

I have heard nurses saying the same thing as doctors...’we are in them all day, we would notice’. I have several hospital nurses in the family. One medical doctor (OB). 

The ‘haven’t hurt us’ keep getting posted posted by friends and family on FB, so I can probably find some with some work. 

Edited by Calm
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I say lets have mask and no mask wards just like mask and no mask schools.  It would also be a good study to see who is right.  I can't see me going back to church until I have been vaccinated or the monoclonal antibodies are in widespread use.

Edited by carbon dioxide
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My ward held services in the chapel for the first time since March.  Maybe 70/30 split mask/no mask.   Our Bishop apparently never read the study about indoor spread at the podium, because he wore a mask while seated, but took it off when speaking to us.  Everyone was glad to see each other, nobody made an issue of it.  I mentioned the total lack of fist fights to a counselor, and said I expect them to do better next month.

2 hours ago, the governor of Colorado issued a mandatory mask order for all indoor public gatherings.  Within minutes, my county's Sheriff's Facebook page said they weren't going to do anything to enforce it.  

There's plenty that already divides us.  You might sit at the temple with an evolutionary biologist on one side, and a young earth creationist on the other.   A left winger on one side, a right winger on the other.   A surgeon to your left, a naturopathic healer on your right.   Mask/no mask is just another test for our ability to fellowship as saints despite our differences. 

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Sorry for the meme, but it encapsulates it so well. Maybe if this happened, there wouldn't be the division which appears to be political. xmg7zuvr7bb51.png

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52 minutes ago, T-Shirt said:

The media seems to want to blame the spikes on conservatives

I am seeing a lot of news on young people not wearing masks causing spikes.  For example:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/covid-19-rise-again-ohio-expert-blames-young-people-who-n1232776

I think where some of the blame gets placed on conservatives is the occasional no mask protest, but more from what I have seen blame is laid on conservative leaders for refusing to make mask wearing mandatory or even being dismissive about mask wearing rather than passing Covid around themselves. 
 

Now whether the youth would obey mandatory rules or not in the face of a mostly united ‘establishment’ of middle agers and seniors, who knows. 

Edited by Calm
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2 hours ago, T-Shirt said:

In my opinion, most of those who are vocal about not wearing masks are not doing so because they think the virus is not real, they do it because they believe it is government overreach and possibly unconstitutional.  They are concerned about freedom being taken away by those sworn to protect it.  They are concerned that once the camel gets his nose inside the tent, you eventually get the whole camel.  I don't necessarily agree, but I respect them for their desire to stand for and protect the constitution.  In addition, many of them still wear masks but they do so, not because government demanded it, they do it because they feel it is prudent.  I believe most feel that they would be happy to follow government and scientific recommendations, they just don't feel they have the authority to mandate it.

That being said, anecdotally, when I see people without masks, they are almost always young people who just don't seem to care.  I live in a very liberal state and I guarantee that these young people are not conservatives.  I think the statistics in states that are seeing large spikes in cases, also, bare this out.  These spikes are largely being caused by young people going to bars and other social gatherings feeling, apparently, untouchable.  These young people are not crazed Trump supporting conservatives, they're just young people who think they can't get sick. The media seems to want to blame the spikes on conservatives, but this is just not born out by statistics.  Florida and Texas governors do not deny the efficacy of wearing masks nor do they tell people not to wear them, in fact they strongly encourage people to wear them, but they don't feel they have the right to require it.  It is young people, by and large, who are ignoring the recommendation to wear masks in these states.  California is also seeing substantial spikes.  California is a very liberal state and has been much more strict in their shut down and yet you see the same pattern there.

I am conservative and I believe people should wear masks.  Our governor has mandated it.  I think the constitutionality of this mandate is reasonably debatable, but I still wear one.  Not because of the governor, but because I believe it is the right thing to do.  I wish everyone felt the same way, especially young people.  If they did, there would be no need for mandates.

Some of it is young people here in AZ no doubt about it, but about an equal measure is those who refuse to do it because of their rights.  We have a lot of people, including a congressman saying that the media is making it worse than it is and then cherry picking the graphs from the state health department site to prove they are right.

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1 hour ago, california boy said:

I live in San Francisco and I ride my bike a lot throughout the city.  I rarely see anyone, young or old not wearing a mask.  I wear my mask while bike riding.  I don't think I am at risk to myself or others because I am never in close proximity to anyone, but I think it sends a message that we are all in this together and we all need to watch out for others.  Anything we can do to cut down on the exposure to this virus is exactly what we should be doing.  It makes me sad that helping others and ourselves from getting sick has become a political statement.  

There is a reason why surgeons and nurses wear masks while dealing with sickness.  Would these people be ok with their surgeon saying, sorry, I don't believe in masks, and it is a big hoax, so I am just going to operate on you without a mask today.  It is my constitutional right to do so. 

I would consider wearing it more outside, but it is too hot.  Once I get in the parking lot and past where I will come across most people (I tend to park farther back) I take it off. High 90s is not terrible with it, but once we hit 103/4 it will be off as soon as safe.  It's almost 9pm here and still the temp is 102.

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2 hours ago, Rain said:

  It's almost 9pm here and still the temp is 102.

At moments like these I am okay with Utah...but I still prefer Canada 🇨🇦 in the summer!

Edited by Calm
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11 hours ago, bluebell said:

I’m not sure on that, but in my area there are some members who refuse to go to church if masks are required. It’s interesting the hills some people choose to die on. 

I will refuse to go if masks aren't required. Instructions from my bishop indicate they will be in our ward. Our ward is resuming meetings, but it's not my group's turn until next week. And masks are required in public in my state anyway.

Edited by Boanerges
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11 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

My ward held services in the chapel for the first time since March.  Maybe 70/30 split mask/no mask.   Our Bishop apparently never read the study about indoor spread at the podium, because he wore a mask while seated, but took it off when speaking to us.  Everyone was glad to see each other, nobody made an issue of it.  I mentioned the total lack of fist fights to a counselor, and said I expect them to do better next month.

2 hours ago, the governor of Colorado issued a mandatory mask order for all indoor public gatherings.  Within minutes, my county's Sheriff's Facebook page said they weren't going to do anything to enforce it.  

There's plenty that already divides us.  You might sit at the temple with an evolutionary biologist on one side, and a young earth creationist on the other.   A left winger on one side, a right winger on the other.   A surgeon to your left, a naturopathic healer on your right.   Mask/no mask is just another test for our ability to fellowship as saints despite our differences. 

There's a little difference though. I don't care if the guy sitting next to me believes in a literal flood or Jonah's fish story while I believe neither are literal. In the end we still get the same meaning and can easily co-exist without the other actually even knowing. The mask is much more outward, and the guy sitting next to me not wearing a mask could be putting me in danger. That's a bit different than a religious/philosophical dichotomy in belief. 

Edited by Boanerges
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