We're Headed Back to Church! Sorta.

[smac97]

Here:

Quote

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is preparing to return to weekly services.

The church, in a letter to local leaders on Tuesday, announced some meetings may resume on a limited basis. All church public gatherings — including sacrament meetings and stake conferences — have been suspended since March 12 due to the coronavirus pandemic.

Weekly Sunday services can begin as soon as this weekend, depending on local government guidelines and authority from the area authority.

The church will use a two-phase approach to returning to full meetings. The first phase will consist of shortened Sunday worship services with up to 99 people. All other meetings will be shortened as well and should follow local government regulations.

The second phase will allow for meetings with more than 100 people.

Yay!

-Smac

[Tacenda]

I'll bet a few would rather stay at home. I watched a youtube of the famous tattoo girl, Al Fox Carraway, and she would rather have church at home. She's as LDS as you can get. I wondered how all of you active feel about this, sounds like Smac likes the idea. I know a lot of people need that social, I'm there with ya! But hopefully people are super careful.

[bluebell]

I just saw this.  I can appreciate how the letter tries very hard to make a point that church will only resume when the area authority gives stake presidents the go a head for individual areas.  It's going to be very weird going back, especially having to keep 6 feet a part.

[bluebell]

1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

I'll bet a few would rather stay at home. I watched a youtube of the famous tattoo girl, Al Fox Carraway, and she would rather have church at home. She's as LDS as you can get. I wondered how all of you active feel about this, sounds like Smac likes the idea. I know a lot of people need that social, I'm there with ya! But hopefully people are super careful.

I'm enjoying home church and am in no hurry to go back at all.  Especially for those with kids, home church is a lot easier.

[JamesBYoung]

strange rodeo, yes

let's remember to do unto others as we would want them to do unto us

[Robert F. Smith]

18 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Here:

Yay!

-Smac

You won't see me there.  Mask or no mask.  I want my vaccine first.

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

You won't see me there.  Mask or no mask.  I want my vaccine first.

I don't know how they're going to sing hymns sitting next to each other, they say the spit flies especially at that time. I need songs if I'm going to church! And the Sacrament trays being held by 100 people....how?? How do we know the hands are clean? Oh well..

[smac97]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I'll bet a few would rather stay at home. I watched a youtube of the famous tattoo girl, Al Fox Carraway, and she would rather have church at home. She's as LDS as you can get. I wondered how all of you active feel about this, sounds like Smac likes the idea. I know a lot of people need that social, I'm there with ya! But hopefully people are super careful.

I have very much enjoyed church services at home.  We spent the better part of last year totally gutting and renovating our downstairs family room, where we have our meetings, so it looks very nice.  Also, the meetings have been meaningful and uplifting.

However, I also treasure my association with the members of my ward.  I look forward to seeing a close friend who is a divorced fellow living on his own, and for whom at-home Church does not quite have the charm felt by people who have family members with them on Sundays.  I also look forward to seeing the boys I teach in Primary.  I also look forward to Gospel Doctrine.  

The community of the Saints means a lot to me.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited May 19, 2020 by smac97

[Amulek]

3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I don't know how they're going to sing hymns sitting next to each other, they say the spit flies especially at that time. I need songs if I'm going to church! And the Sacrament trays being held by 100 people....how?? How do we know the hands are clean? Oh well..

In the pictures, they showed people sitting six feet apart, meaning there is nobody in the pew in front or behind them. The young man administering the sacrament is thus able to take it to each person directly without them having to touch anything but what they are putting in their mouth. And for the water, they used a separate tray for cup disposal (which is a clever use of the extra trays almost every ward I have ever been in has). 

 

[alter idem]

Seems like a lot of hassle,  you'd have to divide up a ward, for more than one service,  cordon off every other pew so deacon could personally serve each person in the row, then a deacon to collect used cups,  only one household to sit in side pew together, and six feet apart from other members. Have to sanitize and clean between each meeting,  it would be an all day affair in some buildings for some of the members. Maybe they could have only those who don't have priesthood in their home to come, others continue home church and maybe ask high risk to stay home.... yea, it would be a lot of work,  imo.

[strappinglad]

8 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I want my vaccine first.

You might have a long wait. Then again , it could be like SARS where just as a vaccine was about to be revealed, the SARS virus faded away. Pesky viruses mutate and hide again. 

[Duncan]

With our Temple being built they have a new meetinghouse so theoretically we could meet there and not have to deal with the riff raff of the other ward BUT it's still a contruction zone so I doubt we'd be able to meet there until the Temple is complete, bummer

[pogi]

My life just got exponentially suckier with this announcement!  I am already working 6 days a week...my work load is going to soar. 7 days a week now?  Yikes.

In Utah, they are going to have to limit meeting sizes to no more than 50 people.  Salt Lake City, West Valley City, Summit and Wasatch Counties (and I think one other) are limited to only 20 people.

I would have liked to see a little more guidelines for reducing high-touch surfaces, such as assigning someone to open doors, etc; encourage members to bring water bottles instead of using water fountain.  Face masks should be required as social distancing isn't realistic - not to mention singing (which spreads it better than coughing).  I would have hoped to see hand sanitizer required before entering the building.  I would like to see singing suspended (not just the choir).  This scares me, the numbers in Utah are not declining and restrictions are getting looser in the State and Church. 

[2BizE]

53 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I'll bet a few would rather stay at home. I watched a youtube of the famous tattoo girl, Al Fox Carraway, and she would rather have church at home. She's as LDS as you can get. I wondered how all of you active feel about this, sounds like Smac likes the idea. I know a lot of people need that social, I'm there with ya! But hopefully people are super careful.

I’m in no rush to return to church, even when the church says it is open.  My family prefers home church.  My kids participate in home, but prefer not to at church. Home church works better for us.  

[The Nehor]

Now have to wait for Area Presidencies to say which stakes are in phase 1 of reopening. One thing I do love about Church uniformity is that unlike our federalized government we do not have to deal with three different groups following different plans and systems and ignoring each other. Phase 1 actually means the stuff in Phase 1. Breath of fresh air.

I am also trying to figure out social distancing by pew. Every third pew? Every fourth?

We have a smaller ward after the recent split but I think we would still need two sacrament meetings to stay under 99. Then again I am in DFW in Texas which has not seen any sustained drop in cases so it may be premature for me to even think about it.

10 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I'll bet a few would rather stay at home. I watched a youtube of the famous tattoo girl, Al Fox Carraway, and she would rather have church at home. She's as LDS as you can get. I wondered how all of you active feel about this, sounds like Smac likes the idea. I know a lot of people need that social, I'm there with ya! But hopefully people are super careful.

I get the desire and share it to a degree but know the actual meetings are important. While I probably get as much or more spiritually from an at-home "meeting" in many ways the church is a collaboration and many do not get as much or more. I am also still having two hours of virtual church meetings even during the quarantine (leadership meetings) and texting and calling other members so I am not missing the fellowship as much as many are.

I am not looking forward to dusting off the old church clothes though. I do not like formal clothing in general and I also really need to get new stuff as I lost over 20 pounds last year and kept putting off getting new stuff. Then again it feels stupid to increase COVID risk to get a new suit so it is either that or looking like someone wearing his big brother's hand-me-downs. Blech.

[bluebell]

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

My life just got exponentially suckier with this announcement!  I am already working 6 days a week...my work load is going to soar. 7 days a week now?  Yikes.

In Utah, they are going to have to limit meeting sizes to no more than 50 people.  Salt Lake City, West Valley City, Summit and Wasatch Counties (and I think one other) are limited to only 20 people.

I would have liked to see a little more guidelines for reducing high-touch surfaces, such as assigning someone to open doors, etc; encourage members to bring water bottles instead of using water fountain.  Face masks should be required as social distancing isn't realistic - not to mention singing (which spreads it better than coughing).  I would have hoped to see hand sanitizer required before entering the building.  I would like to see singing suspended (not just the choir).  This scares me, the numbers in Utah are not declining and restrictions are getting looser in the State and Church. 

They did say this at least:

Quote

 

Please consider the following additional principles and guidelines:

• Use an abundance of caution in protecting the health and safety of members. Pay particular attention to members whose health or age puts them at high risk.

• Advise individuals who do not feel well, or who have been asked to self-quarantine, or who exhibit any of the following symptoms that they should not attend meetings: fever, cough, shortness of breath, headache, runny nose, or sore throat.

• Follow social distancing, handwashing, and other practices described in “Preventative Measures for Members.”

• Follow government regulations in each location regarding public gatherings, including meeting size, frequency, and duration. Please apply government regulations.

• Please return to regular practices slowly, continuing to function remotely using technology while beginning in-person meetings in a phased approach as described below. Priority for in-person gatherings should be given to meetings where ordinances are performed, such as baptisms and sacrament meetings.

 

 

Quote

 

Regularly and thoroughly wash your hands with soap and water or clean them with an alcohol-based hand rub.

Avoid close contact with people who are sick (this may include avoiding shaking hands or other customary greetings).

Avoid touching your eyes, nose and mouth.

Stay home when you are sick.

Cover your cough or sneeze with a tissue, then throw the tissue in the trash.

Maintain at least six feet (two meters) distance between yourself and anyone who is coughing or sneezing.

Clean and disinfect frequently touched objects and surfaces using a regular household cleaning spray or wipe.

Follow public health agency recommendations for using a face mask.

 

The letter also goes on to say (sorry the format is wonky and I'm too lazy to fix it).

Quote

Social distancing. Consider ways to maintain appropriate distance during meetings and classes and when entering and exiting the chapel and classrooms. Individuals from the same household may sit together, but others should sit with appropriate distance. It is recommended that choirs be temporarily suspended. When more members desire to attend. When more members desire to attend than the above guidelines allow, leaders may hold multiple meetings during the day or invite members to attend on alternate weeks. Multiple wards or branches in a meetinghouse. When more than one ward or branch attends in one meetinghouse, stake presidents should temporarily adjust meeting times to avoid overlapping schedules. Areas with large wards. Wards with large attendance at meetings may need to wait to begin holding meetings at the phase-2 level. These wards may also need to alternate weeks of attendance to accommodate all members. On Sundays when members are not participating at the meetinghouse, they can hold home worship services and, when authorized by the bishop, have the sacrament administered at home by a worthy priesthood holder. Meetings Phase 1 Phase 2 Sabbath Day Shortened meetings at the meetinghouse with up to 99 individuals, following local government regulations Meetings at the meetinghouse with 100 or more individuals, following local government regulations All other meetings and activities, including funerals, and weddings Shortened meetings, following local government regulations or may be held remotely using technology Meetings at the meetinghouse may be held following local government regulations. Guidelines for Safely Returning to Church Meetings and Activities May 19, 2020 Page 3 of 4 Primary. During phases 1 and 2, leaders may determine whether to have nursery and some younger Primary classes. They may also determine whether to hold both singing time and classes. Sanitary procedures. Leaders should ensure that buildings are thoroughly cleaned after each set of meetings, especially areas that are touched, such as doorknobs, light switches, water fountains, microphones, and pulpits. Wards may post signs in restrooms as a reminder to wash hands. Where available, hand sanitizer should be provided in meetinghouse foyers. According to local government regulations, members may be encouraged to wear face masks. Wards may consider discontinuing printed programs until conditions return to normal. Blessing of children. The bishop may authorize blessings to be performed either at the family’s home or at the meetinghouse. Baptism and confirmation. Baptism and confirmation requires approval of priesthood leaders with the appropriate keys. Baptismal services may be held with as few as four people, or more where allowed. Others can view the baptism using remote technology. Until sacrament meetings return to normal schedules, converts may be confirmed immediately after their baptism rather than in a sacrament meeting. The Aaronic Priesthood may also be conferred upon males of the appropriate age immediately following their baptism and confirmation, under the direction of the bishop. Administering the Sacrament—General Principles To help keep members healthy and safe, priesthood holders in all cases should follow these general guidelines in the preparation and passing of the sacrament regardless of where it is administered: • Priesthood holders who do not feel well should remain at home. • Where available, priesthood holders may wear face masks while preparing, blessing, and passing the sacrament. • Before preparing, blessing, or passing the sacrament, priesthood holders should thoroughly wash their hands with soap and water for at least 20 seconds. If hand washing is not available, they should use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer. They should then avoid shaking hands or touching their eyes, nose, or mouth before preparing, blessing, or passing the sacrament. • All should cover their cough or sneeze with a tissue. They should then throw the tissue in the trash and wash or sanitize their hands. Surfaces on sacrament trays, including handles, should be cleaned and disinfected frequently. Guidelines for Safely Returning to Church Meetings and Activities May 19, 2020 Page 4 of 4 Administering the Sacrament in Homes • Some members may not be able to gather for a time and should be ministered to individually. Where needed, bishops may continue to authorize worthy priesthood holders to prepare and administer the sacrament at home. If there are no worthy priesthood holders in the home, the bishop may authorize other worthy priesthood holders in the ward to prepare and administer the sacrament in the homes of members who request it. Administering the Sacrament in Meetinghouses* • Bishops may consider adjustments in passing the sacrament. For example, they might ask members to sit in every other bench or have chairs spaced so that priesthood holders can offer the trays to all members, rather than having individuals pass trays down the row.

 

[The Nehor]

54 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

You won't see me there.  Mask or no mask.  I want my vaccine first.

I am guessing long wait assuming vaccine is even possible but I sympathize with the sentiment.

 

52 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I don't know how they're going to sing hymns sitting next to each other, they say the spit flies especially at that time. I need songs if I'm going to church! And the Sacrament trays being held by 100 people....how?? How do we know the hands are clean? Oh well..

Good masks catch most droplets. It is not a perfect seal by any means nor is it a guarantee.

37 minutes ago, alter idem said:

Seems like a lot of hassle,  you'd have to divide up a ward, for more than one service,  cordon off every other pew so deacon could personally serve each person in the row, then a deacon to collect used cups,  only one household to sit in side pew together, and six feet apart from other members. Have to sanitize and clean between each meeting,  it would be an all day affair in some buildings for some of the members. Maybe they could have only those who don't have priesthood in their home to come, others continue home church and maybe ask high risk to stay home.... yea, it would be a lot of work,  imo.

They say work is good for the soul.

13 minutes ago, Duncan said:

With our Temple being built they have a new meetinghouse so theoretically we could meet there and not have to deal with the riff raff of the other ward BUT it's still a contruction zone so I doubt we'd be able to meet there until the Temple is complete, bummer

You shouldn't have to deal with the riff-raff anyways. The instructions are to not have any overlap between wards meeting which is probably one reason they are allowing shortened meetings.

12 minutes ago, pogi said:

My life just got exponentially suckier with this announcement!  I am already working 6 days a week...my work load is going to soar. 7 days a week now?  Yikes.

In Utah, they are going to have to limit meeting sizes to no more than 50 people.  Salt Lake City, West Valley City, Summit and Wasatch Counties (and I think one other) are limited to only 20 people.

I would have liked to see a little more guidelines for reducing high-touch surfaces, such as assigning someone to open doors, etc; encourage members to bring water bottles instead of using water fountain.  Face masks should be required as social distancing isn't realistic - not to mention singing (which spreads it better than coughing).  I would have hoped to see hand sanitizer required before entering the building.  I would like to see singing suspended (not just the choir).  This scares me, the numbers in Utah are not declining and restrictions are getting looser in the State and Church. 

Hand sanitizer stations are supposed to be in our foyers soon. I assume this is a nationwide at least thing but I could be wrong. In Utah there is really not the capacity. Might have to do the members go every other week for 25 minute sacrament meeting and that is it to accomodate.

Also realize that this announcement does not mean Utah is open this Sunday. I think I will have a laugh (and also would not be surprised) if none of the US is judged ready to open and the reopenings all start in other nations. New Zealand is probably ready. Parts of Australia. Hong Kong is ready. South Korea had some setbacks but I think they are good. Vietnam I think. That is off the top of my head. There are probably more.

[pogi]

Those are good, but I think they give too much leeway to let each local unit decide how they are going to run.  These leaders likely have zero public health education to make such decisions as if singing time should be held or not.  It really shouldn’t be an option.  I think there are good general guidelines, but I would have liked to see more specific requirements, rather than suggestions.

I just feel it is too early.  We don’t have an effective treatment or preventive measure.  I don’t think people are especially suffering from having church at home for now.  The risks outweigh the benefits of opening church again, in my opinion.  Make no mistake, we will see Increase in outbreaks, hospitalizations, and likely death from this. But if they are going to open, I feel we could easily make it safer than what is being suggested.

[Raingirl]

54 minutes ago, alter idem said:

Seems like a lot of hassle,  you'd have to divide up a ward, for more than one service,  cordon off every other pew so deacon could personally serve each person in the row, then a deacon to collect used cups,  only one household to sit in side pew together, and six feet apart from other members. Have to sanitize and clean between each meeting,  it would be an all day affair in some buildings for some of the members. Maybe they could have only those who don't have priesthood in their home to come, others continue home church and maybe ask high risk to stay home.... yea, it would be a lot of work,  imo.

Going to church is worth whatever work it takes. There are those who have had to endure worse, and still do, to be able to go. 

[amo]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I'm enjoying home church and am in no hurry to go back at all.  Especially for those with kids, home church is a lot easier.

You can't imagine how blessed I have felt each pandemic Sunday, as a priesthood holder father, to officiate the sacrament to my dear family at home and have the opportunity to actually tailor teach and be taught to/by them. 

Yes, it will be weird to go back and let somebody else try to do the same...

[The Nehor]

13 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

I’m in no rush to return to church, even when the church says it is open.  My family prefers home church.  My kids participate in home, but prefer not to at church. Home church works better for us.  

Many have learned this lesson and I am getting that disappointment all over social feeds from people I know. Most are stalwarts and not the kind of people who just want to sleep in on Sunday. Oddly I am hearing similar kudos to remote secular schooling. Where parents can be involved the kids are thriving. I hope secular society starts looking around at what changed and what we learned and takes the good instead of trying to rush headlong back into the old way. 

I would keep holding those meetings at home. I keep remembering what Elder Bednar was reported to say about us not recognizing the church in a few years. I expect home-based Church to be around to stay though I do not expect sacrament to stay at home. We do need some fellowship.

I am just going to keep my seatbelt fastened and keep popping my vitamins.  

[amo]

2 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

Going to church is worth whatever work it takes. There are those who have had to endure worse, and still do, to be able to go. 

I'd rather stay home...

[pogi]

8 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

 

Also realize that this announcement does not mean Utah is open this Sunday. I think I will have a laugh (and also would not be surprised) if none of the US is judged ready to open and the reopenings all start in other nations. New Zealand is probably ready. Parts of Australia. Hong Kong is ready. South Korea had some setbacks but I think they are good. Vietnam I think. That is off the top of my head. There are probably more.

I hope you are right.  However, they kind of leave it up to local areas to decide in accordance with local regulations.  There are no regulations in Utah preventing meetings of up to 50 people, so we could potentially start seeing rotating meetings of 50.

[The Nehor]

7 minutes ago, pogi said:

Those are good, but I think they give too much leeway to let each local unit decide how they are going to run.  These leaders likely have zero public health education to make such decisions as if singing time should be held or not.  It really shouldn’t be an option.  I think there are good general guidelines, but I would have liked to see more specific requirements, rather than suggestions.

I just feel it is too early.  We don’t have an effective treatment or preventive measure.  I don’t think people are especially suffering from having church at home for now.  The risks outweigh the benefits of opening church again, in my opinion.  Make no mistake, we will see Increase in outbreaks, hospitalizations, and likely death from this. But if they are going to open, I feel we could easily make it safer than what is being suggested.

I share your concern and I hope that the Area Presidencies who are supposed to give guidelines will tailor instructions accordingly. The Church is always in a bind when it comes to general instructions. If they make them too strict some wards may have trouble following them. If they keep those guidelines and allow for exceptions then you risk everyone starting to imagine they are an exception. I agree that, absent something changing, we are going to see outbreaks and hospitalizations but the way everything is opening in the US specifically that is going to happen anyways. I plan to quarantine myself as I reasonably can over the next month at least.

I am also not convinced the US is going to open up in the next few weeks. It might but the way the general closure was enacted by the apostles there had to be a general opening before any church could open. There were church closures in parts of the world before the general closure and a general opening could likewise start with only a few countries or even just a few stakes.

[The Nehor]

10 minutes ago, pogi said:

I hope you are right.  However, they kind of leave it up to local areas to decide in accordance with local regulations.  There are no regulations in Utah preventing meetings of up to 50 people, so we could potentially start seeing rotating meetings of 50.

Only if the Area Presidency authorizes it and this is not said much but in the announcement the Area Presidency needs to consult with the Seventy and the Apostles and I suspect they need to sign off on it. I do not think we will have rogue area presidents jumping ahead of sanity.

I don't know where the church is in regards to where they think the US is in this pandemic but they are well informed and they are working with experts and the guy in charge, while not explicitly an expert in epidemiology, does understand health and has so far shown a lot of caution. The Church shut down before most of the world did.