All Mtcs Shutting Down

[sunstoned]

12 hours ago, bluebell said:

This is being discussed in a different thread.  There are some similarities but I think the main problem is that the missionaries are not being brought home for the reasons outlined in the prophecy.  Plus, for now, many of them are being reassigned to different stateside missions.

Missionaries were brought home during world war two.   If a global world war where millions died did not quality as a last days calamity, then I am sure that this issue will not either.

[Scott Lloyd]

12 hours ago, rongo said:

A bigger issue within the topic of the OP (MTCs all closed, foreign-assigned missionaries now changed to stateside) is how in the world this is going to work with all of the Asian, African, and Philippines missionaries being reassigned stateside, plus any who currently have a foreign mission call. In the peak of The Surge, missionaries in many wards (particularly in the West) were tripping over each other. Sometimes three or four companionships in a ward. The Tempe Mission president at the time, the seven-footer President Toone, said that he was regularly receiving requests from Salt Lake to take on an additional 30 missionaries every transfer above and beyond whom he was scheduled to receive. They didn't really have any place good to put them, but had to place them nonetheless. 

Our son is doing well in Norway, and they're hoping not to be sent home --- even though they are mostly sequestered in the apartment for the foreseeable future. They would be in a stateside mission, anyway. They do get to get out and take the sacrament to sisters in a neighboring town every Sunday. But, morale is high, and we all really hope they aren't among those who will be reassigned "in the coming weeks" (the president thinks there's a good chance they will be among the last to be forced home). 

The toll and the effect on the foreign missions is going to be catastrophic, and not something that can be rectified quickly. It will take years to recover from calling home the couples and then the missionaries, if foreign levels are ever again reached, if they do a full-out call home. 

For the record, I don't regard this as fulfilling the prophecies, and anyone who knows me knows I pay keen attention to them. The prophecies seem to be a lot more "final" than this reaction to Coronavirus. And, I haven't seen enough of God preaching his own sermons to qualify, in my view.  

Maybe I’m dense, but it’s not self-evident to me that the toll on foreign missions will necessarily be “catastrophic” or require years to rectify. 

[Scott Lloyd]

49 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

Missionaries were brought home during world war two.   If a global world war where millions died did not quality as a last days calamity, then I am sure that this issue will not either.

Unless you take a broader view of the “last days.” 

[Rain]

 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Hard to tell a young bride and groom they can’t get married in the temple as they have been dreaming yet and who knows how long they have to wait.  

For now it makes sense to have the bishop marry in very small ceremony and then have the sealing and reception when this is over.  Thank goodness they changed to policy of marriage no delay for a sealing after a civil marriage.

I wonder how the government is handling civil marriages and applications for marriage licenses as well as driver’s licenses and anything else that requires in person presence. 

AZ just sent an email saying in person motor vehicle stuff will have a changed expiration for this year 6 months after the expiration should have been.  

I thought of how things will be doubled up in about 6 months with long lines.  Fortunately, for line length at least, AZ licenses don't expire till you turn 65.  

[bluebell]

9 hours ago, sunstoned said:

Missionaries were brought home during world war two.   If a global world war where millions died did not quality as a last days calamity, then I am sure that this issue will not either.

I think it did probably did qualify as a last days calamity. This could as well; we’ll see. But I think there are many last day calamities that will happen that don’t qualify as a fulfillment of this specific prophecy. 

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

I think it did probably did qualify as a last days calamity. This could as well; we’ll see. But I think there are many last day calamities that will happen that don’t qualify as a fulfillment of this specific prophecy. 

Or some combination of things, considered collectively, could qualify. 

With our limited mortal perspective, we tend to insist on viewing things in linear sequence or in isolation when it might be better to take a broader view — outside-the-box thinking, as it were. 

[Tacenda]

21 hours ago, Tacenda said:

The first photo isn't from last Sunday. I hate fake news as much as the next guy. https://www.deseret.com/2015/1/9/20475595/utah-airports-jammed-as-missionary-homecomings-become-more-frequent-elaborate

[provoman]

55 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

The first photo isn't from last Sunday. I hate fake news as much as the next guy. https://www.deseret.com/2015/1/9/20475595/utah-airports-jammed-as-missionary-homecomings-become-more-frequent-elaborate

 

For there isn't anything to suggest that the bottom was taken this past weekend. 

And yes "fake news" is not worth the time.

I only saw the photos used as criticism; and knowing at least one of the photos is a misrepresentation, it tends to show is the lengths people will to criticize the church. 

[Bob Crockett]

20 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

That assumes the LDS Church leadership can clearly see any and every fulfillment of prophecy when it occurs.  This is very much akin to the mistaken belief in infallible leaders.  They are humans, and humans have an ungodly propensity to err.

You are generally spot-on with your observations.  On occasion you are way off base.

[rongo]

Just spoke with our son. They have been told (he read us something from Salt Lake) that the Church is planning for missionaries in Europe and Eastern Europe to stay. Yay! Apparently, even missionaries in Mexico and Central and South America are going to be brought home in coming weeks  

They anticipate that the Norwegian quarantine lockdown will end on April 13, which is also when our schools are supposed to open again in Arizona. It will be interesting, because neighboring Sweden has been really lassez faire about Coronavirus lockdowns. It will be interesting to see the comparison between the two countries (5 million people in Norway, 10 million in Sweden. Similar immigrant populations). 

https://news.yahoo.com/lockdown-wait-sweden-goes-own-way-003057482.html

Surprisingly, the quarantine missionary work has gone well. They were approached (while maintaining the 2 meter social distance) by a Norwegian/Hungarian college student who is religious and seeking. She said, "Are you missionaries?" and wanted to talk about Bible versions and history, how the Book of Mormon relates to the Bible, etc. Very enthusiastic, and also an avid Trump supporter (she wanted to talk politics, too, and they tried to stay neutral as missionaries). They've also been able to do a surprising amount of activation and getting acquainted work online, although in person would be 1000x better. 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, provoman said:

 

For there isn't anything to suggest that the bottom was taken this past weekend. 

And yes "fake news" is not worth the time.

I only saw the photos used as criticism; and knowing at least one of the photos is a misrepresentation, it tends to show is the lengths people will to criticize the church. 

Just found saw another post, it actually has a caption written on the photo saying PRE COVID19. And then other photos with the caption POST COVID19. So maybe it wasn't fake news or there was miscommunication, don't know. Still trying to get to the truth as to if they were allowed in the airport.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Tacenda

[provoman]

6 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Just found saw another post, it actually has a caption written on the photo saying PRE COVID19. And then other photos with the caption POST COVID19. So maybe it wasn't fake news or there was miscommunication, don't know. Still trying to get to the truth as to if they were allowed in the airport.

Interesting find. 

Post covid 19 could mean pre social distance recommendation from the State.

But, it is interesting that some even decided to use either of those pictures as Utah news outlets had photos of the crowd in the parking garage.

[Bernard Gui]

On 3/23/2020 at 9:46 AM, smac97 said:

Oi.

I generally don't care for Jana Riess, but in this story she is right on the money:

We need to do better.  

Thanks,

-Smac

Couldn't airport security and LEOs prohibit this?

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

The first photo isn't from last Sunday. I hate fake news as much as the next guy. https://www.deseret.com/2015/1/9/20475595/utah-airports-jammed-as-missionary-homecomings-become-more-frequent-elaborate

From the article......"But there is no experience like seeing your child coming home after their mission," he said. "There is so much love in the air you cannot imagine."

I can imagine there might be a little more in the air than love with that many people crowding in, if this is a recent photo. I suppose the more people who are there, the more love abounds, but the air is just fine outside in the parking area.

I don't understand this mentality, but I am a grumpy old man. My parents met me at the Albuquerque airport and we drove home to Los Alamos. They loved me and I loved them. We met our sons in Seattle, but we didn't bring a party with us. We felt the love in our living room. I'm sad to have missed out on all the love at the airport.

 

 

[smac97]

45 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Couldn't airport security and LEOs prohibit this?

I suppose.  I'd rather the members of the Church behave themselves, rather than be compelled to comply with the "social distancing" practices recommended by civil and healthcare authorities, and by the Church.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Bernard Gui]

53 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I suppose.  I'd rather the members of the Church behave themselves, rather than be compelled to comply with the "social distancing" practices recommended by civil and healthcare authorities, and by the Church.

Thanks,

-Smac

One would hope. Our state's shutdown is partially the result of people not heeding the governor's call for social distancing by crowding into parks and beaches. Our LDS activities were shut down early, but there are still a few who think it's ok to mingle just a little bit.

[Robert F. Smith]

3 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

You are generally spot-on with your observations.  On occasion you are way off base.

You've got that right.  To err is human, to forgive divine.

[Avatar4321]

On 3/23/2020 at 10:36 AM, Stargazer said:

Maybe it's a warmup drill for when it does happen for the stated reasons. 😄 

Could be true. President Nelson has been saying we are at a hinge point.

when teaching a lesson a hinge is a point in a lesson when a teacher needs to check whether or not students have grasped a key concept and are ready to move on to study another.

 

[Bob Crockett]

13 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

You've got that right.  To err is human, to forgive divine.

When you are off base I love to yuck it up.  Forgiveness may be divine, but what about mocking and scoffing?

[Robert F. Smith]

4 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

When you are off base I love to yuck it up.  Forgiveness may be divine, but what about mocking and scoffing?

I don't know.  You've got me beat in that dept,  Bob.

[nuclearfuels]

On 3/23/2020 at 11:56 AM, rongo said:

A bigger issue within the topic of the OP (MTCs all closed, foreign-assigned missionaries now changed to stateside) is how in the world this is going to work with all of the Asian, African, and Philippines missionaries being reassigned stateside, plus any who currently have a foreign mission call. In the peak of The Surge, missionaries in many wards (particularly in the West) were tripping over each other. Sometimes three or four companionships in a ward. The Tempe Mission president at the time, the seven-footer President Toone, said that he was regularly receiving requests from Salt Lake to take on an additional 30 missionaries every transfer above and beyond whom he was scheduled to receive. They didn't really have any place good to put them, but had to place them nonetheless. 

Our son is doing well in Norway, and they're hoping not to be sent home --- even though they are mostly sequestered in the apartment for the foreseeable future. They would be in a stateside mission, anyway. They do get to get out and take the sacrament to sisters in a neighboring town every Sunday. But, morale is high, and we all really hope they aren't among those who will be reassigned "in the coming weeks" (the president thinks there's a good chance they will be among the last to be forced home). 

The toll and the effect on the foreign missions is going to be catastrophic, and not something that can be rectified quickly. It will take years to recover from calling home the couples and then the missionaries, if foreign levels are ever again reached, if they do a full-out call home. 

For the record, I don't regard this as fulfilling the prophecies, and anyone who knows me knows I pay keen attention to them. The prophecies seem to be a lot more "final" than this reaction to Coronavirus. And, I haven't seen enough of God preaching his own sermons to qualify, in my view.  

Rongo - I think of Jacob 5 - the last time the trees are pruned, digged about, fertilized, etc. That's where we are.

You're right though - a 1% mortality rate does not = the plagues but that percentage assumes the many national Govt's have been honest and forthright about transmission (not airborne, no vaccine, etc.)

On 3/23/2020 at 10:40 AM, LoudmouthMormon said:

Not one to raise alarm, but it's always good to read up on prophetic last days quotes, to see how close or far away they appear.

https://josephsmithfoundation.org/missionaries-will-the-missionaries-be-called-home-prior-to-calamities-in-the-last-days/

That is how I interpret what is happening. 

Missionaries are called (to serve in their) home (nations)

 

[nuclearfuels]

3 hours ago, smac97 said:

I suppose.  I'd rather the members of the Church behave themselves, rather than be compelled to comply with the "social distancing" practices recommended by civil and healthcare authorities, and by the Church.

Thanks,

-Smac

Even if we behave ourselves, we are outnumbered everywhere - barring a few exceptions. Thus our behavior won't stop the signs of the times

[Calm]

Maybe the MTC's will be adapted for other use (I had thought of this when .i heard that some places are using corporate Conference places etc as temporary medical facilities):

https://m.facebook.com/groups/LDSNewsPage/permalink/2723747364523165/

Can't get the image...military putting up beds in a cultural hall in Chile

Having said that...some of the comments are acting like we are the only church doing this.  I highly, highly doubt that.  I have no doubt that many other churches are trying to help in intelligent, safe ways.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Calm

[rongo]

24 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

Rongo - I think of Jacob 5 - the last time the trees are pruned, digged about, fertilized, etc. That's where we are.

Based on my, my wife's, and my children's patriarchal blessings, I don't think we're there yet.  And, I set a lot of store by them; I don't believe that they are just "whatever" and unimportant. 

That is how I interpret what is happening. 

Missionaries are called (to serve in their) home (nations)

That will certainly happen, but I don't think we're there yet. I do think we're in what Matthew 24 calls "the beginning of the sorrows" (literally in the Greek: birth pains). Like how contraction frequency and severity show that the delivery is approaching. I don't for a moment believe that the missionaries who have been called home are home to stay. I believe that at some point in the relatively near future, missionaries will again be called and sent to foreign countries. I believe that the actual fulfillment of the prophecies will be final, for them "to go no more out." 

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

Even if we behave ourselves, we are outnumbered everywhere - barring a few exceptions. Thus our behavior won't stop the signs of the times

Correct, and that is not our job in any case.  God said he chose Israel because they were few, not because they had numbers on their side (Deut 7:7).

God wants a cadre of faithful priests ready and functioning.  He needs his Saints to provide the proper venue for the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord.  He needs a vast array of functioning holy temples.  That's us.  All of us.