All Mtcs Shutting Down

[Rain]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Maybe the MTC's will be adapted for other use (I had thought of this when .i heard that some places are using corporate Conference places etc as temporary medical facilities):

https://m.facebook.com/groups/LDSNewsPage/permalink/2723747364523165/

Can't get the image...military putting up beds in a cultural hall in Chile

Having said that...some of the comments are acting like we are the only church doing this.  I highly, highly doubt that.  I have no doubt that many other churches are trying to help in intelligent, safe ways.

I have not specifically heard of any doing it, but I have no doubt you are correct based on what I have seen many churches already doing for other things.

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

Even if we behave ourselves, we are outnumbered everywhere - barring a few exceptions. Thus our behavior won't stop the signs of the times

I don't believe these are signs of the times in the capacity of the world ending, and the second coming happening. But I do believe it is all tied in with air pollution and climate change actually. Air pollution causes more deaths than any virus. 

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Air pollution causes more deaths than any virus. 

Contributes to deaths:

https://www.who.int/health-topics/air-pollution#tab=tab_1

Quote

largely as a result of increased mortality from stroke, heart disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, lung cancer and acute respiratory infections.

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

7 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Couldn't airport security and LEOs prohibit this?

Another POV asking that question:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10216089664504082&id=1523972781

Quote

Unfortunately, this was an epic fail by SLC and the airport leadership. It’s not like a secret that this was happening, and it’s not like airports don’t know how to control vehicle traffic picking up travelers. The numbers of missionaries and airplanes were well known for days and it was in the newspapers as well. There is no excuse for the level of disorganization at the airport. And there’s absolutely no reason to blame it all on the families. There was a good plan, but it was simply not well executed by the airport once the families arrived. The families were ready to do it right.

 When we got there, the orderly process described by the church in our email was not executed the way it was supposed to be by airport personnel. Instead, the airport herded all of the families for thousands of returning missionaries together into one area. Not in an orderly line, like any elementary school can pull off, but in a mass of cars. Then they had the missionaries search through the crowd to try to find their families. It was embarrassingly inept when every other business in the world has figured out how to do things safely at this point.

Our family was fortunate because our missionary found us quickly and we did not have to exit our vehicle. I don’t see any way that the other families could comply with the mess the airport created. Accountability should live with the people who are responsible, not with the families, most of whom did their best to work with the instructions they were given. The Salt Lake City airport totally blew it and it should not have been that hard to do it right.

Hopefully the airport will have figured it out so families less inclined to follow rules won't have the chance to break them and those wanting to do the right thing can do so.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Calm

[provoman]

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10216089664504082&id=1523972781

 

I do not think Joel Coleman has valid point.

The social distancing, group no larger than X was in place well before anyone any family showed up at the airport. So Joel and the other families had sufficient notice.

And as Joel Coleman posted "Some [people] clearly did not use their brains".

Joel then laments that what the Church told him should happen did not happen. Well Joel, Salt Lake City Airport is run by a City Government and not a Religious organization, so it does not matter what was in an email from a religious organization, Stake President, Mission President, Bishop, etc. 

The fact that so many families had made signs also suggests that air port operations should not be blamed for all the families choosing to crowd the terminal building exit in parking garage. 

The fact that large individual groups showed up also suggest that air port operations should not be blamed for all the families choosing to crowd the terminal building exit in parking garage. 

Edited March 25, 2020 by provoman

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, provoman said:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10216089664504082&id=1523972781

I do not think Joel Coleman has valid point.

The social distancing, group no larger than X was in place well before anyone any family showed up at the airport. So Joel and the other families had sufficient notice.

And as Joel Coleman posted "Some [people] clearly did not use their brains".

Joel then laments that what the Church told him should happen did not happen. Well Joel, Salt Lake City Airport is run by a City Government and not a Religious organization, so it does not matter what was in an email from a religious organization, Stake President, Mission President, Bishop, etc. 

The fact that so many families had made signs also suggests that air port operations should not be blamed for all the families choosing to crowd the terminal building exit in parking garage. 

The fact that large individual groups showed up also suggest that air port operations should not be blamed for all the families choosing to crowd the terminal building exit in parking garage. 

I can only say what I would do in this situation...We are not even to go on a beach. Having been warned of the dangers posed by congregating in closely packed crowds and close bodily contact with individuals, I would have sent one family member to the airport to pick up the missionary and have our joyful reunion at home when the quarantine period ended. I see some older people in the photo. That's really putting them and eventually others at risk. Since the missionaries are coming from who knows where and have been exposed to who knows what, perhaps they should have gone immediately into quarantine and then be released to their families at the end of the quarantine. Safety should not take second place to emotion. I'm curious why the missionaries were not immediately put into quarantine instead of being released to families. Makes no sense IMO. 

It's a mess during difficult times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[provoman]

On 3/23/2020 at 6:44 AM, smac97 said:

Here:

Thanks,

-Smac

Part of me doesn't want this sign to be real, mainly because I do not think a State entity should have spend money on a message that says follow "your church leadership".  

 

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by provoman

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Since the missionaries are coming from who knows where and have been exposed to who knows what, perhaps they should have gone immediately into quarantine and then be released to their families at the end of the quarantine. Safety should not take second place to emotion. I'm curious why the missionaries were not immediately put into quarantine instead of being released to families

From what I understand they had been in self quarantine for two weeks already, if they had been able to get to the plane without contact with anyone but other missionaries who had self quarantine, they may have assumed sufficient. I suppose no huge problem with 900 missionaries in the MTC under quarantine though. 

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, provoman said:

Part of me doesn't want this sign to be real, mainly because I do not think a State entity should spend on a message that says follow "your church leadership".  

 

 

Church could have done it rather than airport. 

[Tacenda]

20 hours ago, provoman said:

Part of me doesn't want this sign to be real, mainly because I do not think a State entity should have spend money on a message that says follow "your church leadership".  

 

 

Well that's a kick in the pants!

[provoman]

4 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Well that's a kick in the pants!

Yes it is a kick in the pants.

 And thinking on that particular sign, it appears to that it might violate non-discrimination laws.

The sign specifically target a religious group....the sign clearly is not neutral towards religion.

In my opinion, it would be neutral for the sign to Instruct

"No lobby pick up. All must return to their vehicles" 

[Tacenda]

19 minutes ago, provoman said:

Yes it is a kick in the pants.

 And thinking on that particular sign, it appears to that it might violate non-discrimination laws.

The sign specifically target a religious group....the sign clearly is not neutral towards religion.

In my opinion, it would be neutral for the sign to Instruct

"No lobby pick up. All must return to their vehicles" 

You're right, at first glance, it almost appears to be made up because of the wording being just as you say.

[rongo]

1 hour ago, provoman said:

Yes it is a kick in the pants.

 And thinking on that particular sign, it appears to that it might violate non-discrimination laws.

The sign specifically target a religious group....the sign clearly is not neutral towards religion.

In my opinion, it would be neutral for the sign to Instruct

"No lobby pick up. All must return to their vehicles" 

I don't like the sign singling out the Church for targeting (we're sure it's not a photoshopped sign, right?), but at the same time . . . it is only church members who are the problem with the over-the-top airport gatherings for returning missionaries. I mean, there aren't throngs of Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran, etc. people welcoming people home from their "mission trips" (telltale sign of a non-Mormon is that phrase: mission trip) with blown up cardboard missionary likenesses, T-shirts, balloons, signs, etc. That is strictly a Mormon thing. 

An aside: this reminds me of taking the Greyhound from Chicago to Salt Lake to visit my grandparents when I was in high school. In Wyoming, two men seated in front of me started speculating and sharing (mostly inaccurate) stereotypes and expectations of what it would be like when they encounter Mormons in Utah. This discussion continued, and when we pulled into the Greyhound station in Salt Lake, a large Mormon extended family was waiting for someone with the sings, balloons, etc. They started doing the wave when the bus pulled to a stop, and one of the men said, "Look! They're bus worshippers!" 

[Calm]

Do we know for sure who put it up?  Airport, Church, company they chartered the planes from, someone else?

They knew instructions had been sent out through the Church leadership, maybe they assumed some might not yet have read their email with instructions (and in fact this apparently had happened from what I have seen reported) and therefore were directing them in brief language to go read the email if they hadn't yet or needed a refresher.

If they had just said "as instructed", people who hadn't known about the email might not realize that is what they were talking about and even those who had might be confused if there were other instructions.

Quote

No lobby pick up. All must return to their vehicles"

This does not give info on what the missionaries would be doing while family sat in the car.  By pointing them to read or reread the instructions sent out, they were providing them with more info than could be printed on the sign.  It would be more reassuring to have more detailed directions imo.

[Calm]

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/coronavirus-update#missionary-work

Quote

 

Today, we learned that a young missionary serving in Mexico City has tested positive for COVID-19. The young man, who is from Guatemala, is being treated for his mild symptoms. He and his current companion are isolated away from others.

In accordance with established guidelines from public health agencies, notification is taking place for all those with whom the missionary had recent contact. This includes a previous companion who returned to California two days ago and is in self-isolation at home. At this point, that missionary is not showing any symptoms. Medical professionals are working with the missionary and his family to ensure they take all necessary precautions during the next few weeks.

The Church will continue to reinforce established self-isolation procedures for missionaries who are traveling, at home and in the field. We are monitoring rapidly changing world conditions and are making adjustments as warranted. We take very seriously the health and safety of missionaries and the well-being of those around them.