Update on Story Re: Missing Kids (Daybell)

[Tacenda]

Mr. Daybell will flee without a doubt if allowed out on a lower bail. He's going to hightail it out of this country.

[alter idem]

remains of two children, it was confirmed in the hearing.  Chad is being held on 1 million bond. 

[alter idem]

3 minutes ago, alter idem said:

remains of two children, it was confirmed in the hearing.  Chad is being held on 1 million bail. 

also, the complaint shows the dates Tylee and JJ went missing, it's obvious they are certain it's their bodies. When trying to get the bail set at 1 million, the prosecutor said something to about the state of one of the bodies and used the word 'egregious' and it sounds like Chad tried to destroy the bodies when he knew they were going to discover them.  Anyway, that's what I picked up from watching the hearing.   Chad will be back in court beginning of july sometime.

Edited June 10, 2020 by alter idem
changed to bail for clarification

[bsjkki]

One of kids has been identified according to the grandmother.

https://twitter.com/jlumfox10/status/1270771599377981441?s=20

 

[pogi]

At what point is Lori going to wake up in jail and think...holy ****, what have I done!?  I murdered, or had a part in the murder of my children that I gave birth to and reared and loved!  This was all BS and now my beautiful, innocent children are dead.  Forever.  Because of me.  How does one live with themselves?   These were her kids!!!  I hope their memories haunt her. 

I think of Chad, the morning after he murdered innocent children, did he wake up and slip on a nice clean pair of garments, observing their symbols, and maybe take in a temple session after a hot cup of hot cocoa (because it is evil to drink coffee)?  How does this happen?

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by pogi

[Tacenda]

51 minutes ago, pogi said:

At what point is Lori going to wake up in jail and think...holy ****, what have I done!?  I murdered, or had a part in the murder of my children that I gave birth to and reared and loved!  This was all BS and now my beautiful, innocent children are dead.  Forever.  Because of me.  How does one live with themselves?   These were her kids!!!  I hope their memories haunt her. 

I think of Chad, the morning after he murdered innocent children, did he wake up and slip on a nice clean pair of garments, observing their symbols, and maybe take in a temple session after a hot cup of hot cocoa (because it is evil to drink coffee)?  How does this happen?

 

Thought the very exact thing. When she realizes the children weren't zombies but themselves, that pain will be searing. 

Chad no doubt killed his wife and more than likely the children. He probably needs the death penalty.

[katherine the great]

54 minutes ago, pogi said:

I think of Chad, the morning after he murdered innocent children, did he wake up and slip on a nice clean pair of garments, observing their symbols, and maybe take in a temple session after a hot cup of hot cocoa (because it is evil to drink coffee)?  How does this happen?

Bad choices + justifying those bad choices + unmitigated pride and ego +a touch of mental illness + lust = A recipe for disaster. 

[pogi]

1 minute ago, katherine the great said:

Bad choices + justifying those bad choices + unmitigated pride and ego +a touch of mental illness + lust = A recipe for disaster. 

Do you think he has fooled himself and actually believes his own bullsh**, or does he know what he did?

If he doesn’t know yet, reality is going to sink in pretty quick for him, I would think.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, alter idem said:

I went to look at  the Reddit comment you mentioned (it's on r/LoriVallow subreddit and it's titled 'concerned lds member; I'd link to it, but I'm not sure I'm allowed to.)  and found something else interesting on that page. 

As long as not private, I think okay. Warning should be given if language...which there is in every forum I have read on reddit. There were some pretty foul ones yesterday but hardly surprising now worse fears have been confirmed.

[alter idem]

 

15 minutes ago, Calm said:

As long as not private, I think okay. Warning should be given if language...which there is in every forum I have read on reddit. There were some pretty foul ones yesterday but hardly surprising now worse fears have been confirmed.

Thanks, here is the link: 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/h05e1h/the_bitter_irony/

 

It's titled 'concerned lds member'

[bluebell]

17 minutes ago, pogi said:

Do you think he has fooled himself and actually believes his own bullsh**, or does he know what he did?

If he doesn’t know yet, reality is going to sink in pretty quick for him, I would think.

I think he believes his own crap.  Hopefully he'll come around but considering the emotional toll that accepting reality would have, I think he'll mentally do whatever it takes to stay in the delusion for as long as possible.   This whole thing keeps reminding me of the verses in the scriptures that talk about how satan does not support those he leads astray.  If he's not already I think that soon enough Chad will begin to see cracks in his belief system, unless mental illness is a part of it (which I think it is with Lori). 

[pogi]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I think he believes his own crap.  Hopefully he'll come around but considering the emotional toll that accepting reality would have, I think he'll mentally do whatever it takes to stay in the delusion for as long as possible.   This whole thing keeps reminding me of the verses in the scriptures that talk about how satan does not support those he leads astray.  If he's not already I think that soon enough Chad will begin to see cracks in his belief system, unless mental illness is a part of it (which I think it is with Lori). 

I guess we'll see how effectively he can lead the 144,000 from his small little prison cell. 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, alter idem said:

I went to look at  the Reddit comment you mentioned (it's on r/LoriVallow subreddit and it's titled 'concerned lds member; I'd link to it, but I'm not sure I'm allowed to.)  and found something else interesting on that page.  It is a letter a member wrote  about the efforts of people like Chad and Lori, who are going around in their ward/stake trying to get other members involved in these 'cultish' groups.  This person said they had talked to their church leaders but were told to just ignore them.  I wish they had not blacked out the name of the stake, I think these things need to be made public so that members can protect themselves and they aren't so easily swept under a rug.  These deaths and disappearances happended because of Lori and Chad's strange beliefs, that they have been recruiting unknowing members to join them.

I think Christopher Parret and others at AVOW are still heavily involved in this fringe group that operates within the church, and that's why he's circling the wagons and trying to keep prying eyes out (Onsdag over on websleuths managed to find out some information but he said that Parret keeps the discussion on this to only a loyal following in a private forum.  Just like Hector Sosa was doing on his PTZ private forum, which he disbanded a little while ago over fears that they would be exposed for their activities.

I hope some of the church leadership are investigating this and will recognize it must be addressed and dealt with.

It is highly concerning. I hope some very specific and strongly worded conference talks or other highly publicized forum talks are coming. Emails and such. This has been too long a parasite on the Church and members looking for info on preparedness need to be warned about the wolves out there drawing one in. And those who are drawn to the mysteries need to be pushed towards healthier paths like the temple and warned that NDE stuff is too easy a path for attention for those wannabe celebrities that don’t have the writing skills or charisma to become a popular writer/speaker. 

And this goes beyond just weird practices into immoral and even dangerous ones with those who use alleged premortal sealings to excuse adultery as well as those like the Daybells justifying callous disregard for life through ‘higher laws’.  
 

Julie Rowe did a selfie a day or two on her FB where she is in front of a chapel “welcome” with a frowning face saying ‘I don’t feel particularly welcome’ and she gets a ‘you’re so brave’ response. Right, for standing outside a building.
 

Me, her feeling unwanted...not causing me big issues right now given that her past success, her celebrity status and the example of people hero worshiping her, buying her a house, flying her around, is probably what gave Chad and maybe Lori a real taste for hedge prophethood as that attention and excitement wasn’t going to ever be coming from his writing. 

If anyone comes across a writing campaign to Nancy Grace to cut this woman off from her next media fix, let me know.  I am so sick of her gleefully taking advantage of the Vallow,and Ryan families’ as well as Tammy’s family (spacing on her maiden name)pain when she caused so much of it. 
 

Maybe now the children have been found, the interviewers will be more confrontational about her contributions and continuing con job. 

[alter idem]

I think it's important to remember what started Chad and Lori down this path which has led to so many deaths of innocent people.  Their cultish, gnostic false religious beliefs that they've been trying to gain converts for.  This article explains a lot of what was and still is happening among some LDS members in Rexburg and other areas.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/02/a-look-at-the-religious-circle-surrounding-chad-and-lori-daybell/

 

A couple of excerpts from the article:

Quote

Amber is a Rexburg resident whose marriage recently fell apart partly due to her husband’s involvement with a Latter-day Saint extremist group. We’ve changed her name to protect her identity too.

Unlike Jessica, Amber got involved with these groups online, and her experience was quite different.

“I was trying to make some friends,” Amber said. “Most of my friends from school aren’t LDS, so I wanted to make some more spiritual friends that I could discuss the scriptures I was reading with.”

She was introduced to books on energy healings, visions and prophecies about the Second Coming. Although she wasn’t attracted to the beliefs, her husband was. He began going to meetings where like-minded individuals gathered to discuss religion, and Chad attended some of these meetings, she said.

“Chad doesn’t have a big group of followers in eastern Idaho,” Amber said. “He just goes around to little groups and gives testimony, tells his story, and people believe in the visions he’s having.”

One aspect that seemed to fascinate her ex-husband was the idea of multiple mortal probations, Amber said. According to orthodox Latter-day Saint teachings, this life is a test or probation to see if people will live by God’s commandments. But both Chad and Rowe have taught that people can essentially be reincarnated and live multiple times — and have multiple probations — on earth. (Reincarnation is not accepted Latter-day Saint doctrine.)

In some of these groups, tied into this belief is the idea that a man and a woman might be destined to be together, even if that person is married to someone else. Like multiple probations, this is not a Latter-day Saint belief.

Contrary to LDS norms, Amber said her husband began to take another married woman to a Latter-day Saint temple to receive revelation from God. Temples are places of worship for Latter-day Saints where members perform marriage ceremonies and do spiritual work.

“These people go to the temple and make promises to be together,” Amber said. “They pray about it and feel like they are getting answers.”

In interviews with other former members of these groups, some said things went beyond just temple trips. One east Idaho man, who asked not to be identified, told EastIdahoNews.com that during his time in a group, he was approached by someone who claimed to have received personal revelation that he was supposed to marry the man’s wife.

(According to the church, personal revelation is meant “to help you with your specific needs, responsibilities and questions” often “through the whisperings of the Holy Ghost” — and is not generally given in behalf of other people.)

Amber said her former husband became convinced he was living a higher spiritual law than other members of the church.

“There is a train of thought, that they think that they are living a higher law and are better than anyone else,” Amber said. “That they are living the way Jesus wants them to during the Millennium, and if you disagree with their beliefs, they just tell you you don’t understand the law or you’re not ready.”

So apparently what Lori and Chad were doing was not an isolated incident.

 

Quote

A concept of ‘chosenness’

“The internet has facilitated for these types of groups … a kind of church-within-a-church sensibility,” Utah State University Religion Professor Patrick Mason told EastIdahoNews.com. “They believe they really get it and understand the true church teachings. They are more than happy to go to church with (other) people who are nice church-going folks, but they view these people as not as committed as they are, or as people who just don’t get it.”

Like most major religions, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has seen people with different interpretations on doctrine break off from the main body. Some of these groups don’t actually splinter from the church but remain quietly inside, Mason said.

“The church doesn’t do much to police people’s thoughts,” he said. “People believe lots of things in the church, and as long as people keep those things more or less to themselves, as long as they publicly express adherence to church leaders, they are allowed to have a pretty wide-ranging set of beliefs.”

Expressing these beliefs on forums or on social media allows the people to share these beliefs safely, Mason said, without running the risk of being alienated at church or being disciplined by church leaders.

“It … creates a special sense of ‘chosenness’ within the church, or of being part of an elect or select group of people within the church, and the internet has been absolutely crucial to that,” Mason said.

The concern is not for those who splinter off, but those who remain members and surreptitiously try to convert others to their false beliefs.

 

 

 

 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Mr. Daybell will flee without a doubt if allowed out on a lower bail. He's going to hightail it out of this country.

I can’t see him going off on his own, but if he can help kill his mistress’ kids and live with his family with them buried in the backyard and then murder his wife, he may be made of sterner stuff, especially since the reason he did all this is likely not going to be around for any more butt slapping for a long, long time and by then a good chance she will go ‘ew’, so running off and starting a new life probably sounds good to him right now. 
 

Wonder how his kids who supported him feel. Will they deny it all and claim frame?  Even if someone else killed them, how can he justify the quick marriage and running away to paradise?

[Calm]

2 hours ago, alter idem said:

remains of two children, it was confirmed in the hearing.  Chad is being held on 1 million bond. 

Matched set, nice. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

At what point is Lori going to wake up in jail and think...holy ****, what have I done!?  I murdered, or had a part in the murder of my children that I gave birth to and reared and loved!  This was all BS and now my beautiful, innocent children are dead.  Forever.  Because of me.  How does one live with themselves?   These were her kids!!!  I hope their memories haunt her. 

I think of Chad, the morning after he murdered innocent children, did he wake up and slip on a nice clean pair of garments, observing their symbols, and maybe take in a temple session after a hot cup of hot cocoa (because it is evil to drink coffee)?  How does this happen?

 

Let’s not forget likely kissed his beautiful wife Tammy he knew was going to be dead in a few weeks...likely murdered by him...and likely smiled at his son’s family living with them, including a new grandchild iirc, while dreaming of abandoning them all for an extended honeymoon on the beach.
 

Hard to believe this is not some cable tv poorly plotted movie (writer had no talent, so did a kitchen sink plot)

[katherine the great]

50 minutes ago, pogi said:

Do you think he has fooled himself and actually believes his own bullsh**, or does he know what he did?

If he doesn’t know yet, reality is going to sink in pretty quick for him, I would think.

Oh I think he's aware of what he did on some level--just suppressing it for now because its so horrific. I think you are right--the reality will eventually sink in once the prison walls fail to fall down. 

[Calm]

53 minutes ago, pogi said:

Do you think he has fooled himself and actually believes his own bullsh**, or does he know what he did?

If he doesn’t know yet, reality is going to sink in pretty quick for him, I would think.

He wanted to sell the house (but his son who owns part of it refused to allow it) after his wife’s death or rather after he killed her (yeah, I know we don’t know, but even if he didn’t do it, he caused it).  Who does that knowing there are fresh dead bodies in the backyard?

Edited June 10, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

4 hours ago, katherine the great said:

Do any of his children still live with him? So little has been said about them that I wonder if they are all grown and living on their own.

The house was actually in Tammy and a son’s name. As I mentioned above, the son wouldn’t let him sell it after Mom died. Wonder if he is wishing he let his dad have his way.  Imagine what it will be like for his little kid to grow up knowing two murdered kids were buried in his backyard...and if his parents see the truth some day, by his grandfather (I am remembering it is a boy, but could be wrong).

Then there is the son who just came back from his mission. He might be staying there as well.  He was the youngest and still on his mission when his mom died. 
 

Iirc, five kids, all but one married. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Calm

[katherine the great]

32 minutes ago, pogi said:

I guess we'll see how effectively he can lead the 144,000 from his small little prison cell. 

Hehe.. I believe the judge ordered him to have no contact whatsoever with any family members of the victims. Having no contact at all with Lori may be too much for him. I do wonder though, until the remains are officially identified if that will be enforceable.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, katherine the great said:

Hehe.. I believe the judge ordered him to have no contact whatsoever with any family members of the victims. Having no contact at all with Lori may be too much for him. I do wonder though, until the remains are officially identified if that will be enforceable.

It has been reported (Melani Gibb’s interview iirc) he and Lori spend hours on the phone daily. Wonder how she managed that. Hope it is not an option now. More likely one will break and confess. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Calm

[bluebell]

The family has confirmed that the remains are J.J. and Tylee.

[katherine the great]

49 minutes ago, Calm said:

It has been reported (Melani Gibb’s interview iirc) he and Lori spend hours on the phone daily. Wonder how she managed that. Hope it is not an option now. More like one will break and confess. 

What isn't clear to me is whether that order is in effect while he is in jail. It seemed to be part of the conditions if he bails out. 

[mtomm]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I can’t see him going off on his own, but if he can help kill his mistress’ kids and live with his family with them buried in the backyard and then murder his wife, he may be made of sterner stuff, especially since the reason he did all this is likely not going to be around for any more butt slapping for a long, long time and by then a good chance she will go ‘ew’, so running off and starting a new life probably sounds good to him right now. 
 

Wonder how his kids who supported him feel. Will they deny it all and claim frame?  Even if someone else killed them, how can he justify the quick marriage and running away to paradise?

My daughter saw one of Chad's children today along with their spouse (this is REALLY close to me) and where they were going and how they looked indicates that this particular child is not doing well and the reality of it all is dawning.