Update on Story Re: Missing Kids (Daybell)

[Calm]

Since she is teaching classes, giving talks at PaP conferences (seriously, labeling yourself "pap"*** is not the smartest branding for an organization that wants to appear to be cutting edge in all thing semiChurch related), and podcasting, Melanie  may not be as introverted as she appears and is just subdued by events and exhausted by the drama or maybe she reverted to old habits under stress as she says she grew up in a dysfunctional family.  I should try and find a podcast and listen to her if I am going to continue playing armchair psychologist.

A link below to her book shows it published in Feb 2019, just as things with Chadori are ramping up.  It is even stranger to me that she provides nothing of this in the interview and makes it appear (outside of her class) iirc that she is a mere follower who shows up at events rather than one of the leaders (many, many leaders) of this movement (the end times/prepper/mysteries of God movement, two examples of these groups are Prepare A People--events hosted, collected speakers that they may or may not agree with from what they say; Chad being one, David Warwick being another, Julie Rowe, Shawn Littlebear and a host of others with most sounding on the fringe and the handful I have looked at being self-elevating as opposed to humble, did podcast including with hosts Lori Vallow, Gibb, Daybell, Jason Moew--and AVOW or A Voice of Warning--private message boards within private boards of which Chad has his own, plus published a newsletter or something for them.

At the time she is writing, she is married with four kids, one of whom is Asperger's (did she ever mention this and that she bonded in part by sharing experiences on the autism spectrum.  I got the impression she had little actual interaction with JJ and didn't feel comfortable with him that much,  I assume she still is married in February from the book.  One comment said her divorce was finalized in August 2019....so unlike the calm, dramafree life outside of Lori she portrays in the interview, her own life seems to be in turmoil during this time.  Again a split marriage, quicky divorce, and new boyfriend, though no marriage.  And we don't know if her kids were a big part of her life prior to her going into hiding or not.  Explains why it is easy for her to do so.

https://www.amazon.com/Feel-Fire-Melanie-Gibb-ebook/dp/B07NS93PB9/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Melanie+gibb&qid=1590696067&sr=8-1

 

***Pap:  "bland soft or semiliquid food such as that suitable for babies or invalids" or literally the milk, not the meat. Also:  "reading matter or entertainment that is worthless or lacking in substance"

Foreword of her book by Chad Daybell:  https://www.screencast.com/t/zwNFDCOiP

 

He writes they met in 2017...assuming she is accurate in interviews, this is just hellos, being at same conferences, minimal action till Lori comes along.  However, in the book, she comes up to him and is quite open and soon they are talking like old friends.  Were they inflating their value to each other for the purpose of selling the book or is she trying to downplay her relationship with him?

Edited May 28, 2020 by Calm

[alter idem]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Rather ironic that Melanie was teaching a class for Prepare A People on “Overcoming Self Deception”.

https://player.fm/series/preparing-a-people-podcast-network/ep-05-time-to-warrior-up-melanie-overcoming-self-deception

Saw elsewhere Gibb described as the Arizona rep for Preparing a People. Didn’t see a date, so may be out of date. 
 

Read the article, but won’t watch video till later. We are told in the three segments very little about Melanie Gibb herself and her life outside her interactions with Lori. After reading the email and the synopsis of PAP podcasts with her and David Warwick (her boyfriend at least back in November who she stayed with and who convinced her to go to the police, who is apparently also a visionary of end times), I got to wonder just how deep she actually went into this. The email says Gibb had also recently divorced (another family destroyed by these divergent spiritual beliefs?) and then had a relationship with Warwick (nothing suggesting anything immoral, just both appear to be heavily involved in PAP). 
 

If PAP ever recovers (I suspect they will rebrand), I will be interested to see if Gibb or Warwick continue their association with the group or any other or if either have decided their involvement in end times speculation is unwise. 

I remember from the email that David Warwick at least was wary of Chad and Lori's claims on gathering the144,000 and didn't get involved in it.

I also wonder what the James 's will do now that pap has been hurt by this association. 

[Tacenda]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

Since she is teaching classes, giving talks at PaP conferences (seriously, labeling yourself "pap"*** is not the smartest branding for an organization that wants to appear to be cutting edge in all thing semiChurch related), and podcasting, Melanie  may not be as introverted as she appears and is just subdued by events and exhausted by the drama or maybe she reverted to old habits under stress as she says she grew up in a dysfunctional family.  I should try and find a podcast and listen to her if I am going to continue playing armchair psychologist.

A link below to her book shows it published in Feb 2019, just as things with Chadori are ramping up.  It is even stranger to me that she provides nothing of this in the interview and makes it appear (outside of her class) iirc that she is a mere follower who shows up at events rather than one of the leaders (many, many leaders) of this movement (the end times/prepper/mysteries of God movement, two examples of these groups are Prepare A People--events hosted, collected speakers that they may or may not agree with from what they say; Chad being one, David Warwick being another, Julie Rowe, Shawn Littlebear and a host of others with most sounding on the fringe and the handful I have looked at being self-elevating as opposed to humble, did podcast including with hosts Lori Vallow, Gibb, Daybell, Jason Moew--and AVOW or A Voice of Warning--private message boards within private boards of which Chad has his own, plus published a newsletter or something for them.

At the time she is writing, she is married with four kids, one of whom is Asperger's (did she ever mention this and that she bonded in part by sharing experiences on the autism spectrum.  I got the impression she had little actual interaction with JJ and didn't feel comfortable with him that much,  I assume she still is married in February from the book.  One comment said her divorce was finalized in August 2019....so unlike the calm, dramafree life outside of Lori she portrays in the interview, her own life seems to be in turmoil during this time.  Again a split marriage, quicky divorce, and new boyfriend, though no marriage.  And we don't know if her kids were a big part of her life prior to her going into hiding or not.  Explains why it is easy for her to do so.

https://www.amazon.com/Feel-Fire-Melanie-Gibb-ebook/dp/B07NS93PB9/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Melanie+gibb&qid=1590696067&sr=8-1

 

***Pap:  "bland soft or semiliquid food such as that suitable for babies or invalids" or literally the milk, not the meat. Also:  "reading matter or entertainment that is worthless or lacking in substance"

Foreword of her book by Chad Daybell:  https://www.screencast.com/t/zwNFDCOiP

 

He writes they met in 2017...assuming she is accurate in interviews, this is just hellos, being at same conferences, minimal action till Lori comes along.  However, in the book, she comes up to him and is quite open and soon they are talking like old friends.  Were they inflating their value to each other for the purpose of selling the book or is she trying to downplay her relationship with him?

I found this link that actually works, unlike the others. 

 

[Tacenda]

The above video is an actual podcast with Lori and Melanie, and some dude named Jason. This is interesting to listen to Lori way back then at the start of all of this. I guess they are gatherers and see the end times coming very soon. Melanie sure has changed her tune now. Her eyes are opening up. 

[Calm]

You can see imo the toll the past year has taken on her when you compare her brightness, even a sense of forwardness  coming through imo with her more subdued, tired character now. 

Thanks for posting that. It confirms she was definitely not just an observer of the movement who was attracted, but not fully committed to follow, but as Jason Moew*** calls her the “point person” for likeminded people in the SW area. 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

Watching the video now.  I am still being very troubled with how she is choosing to phrase things as believing in Chad's claims as actual true revelation and not saying anything now that shows a strong rejection of those claims as anything but manipulative BS.  She phrases it as Chad "knew this information" for quite awhile making it sound like she sees it as foreknowledge.  I am not getting any sense of "duh, of course, he knew because it was what he wanted and it happened now because he made it happen by killing her or having her killed".

Hopefully she clarifies later, but the previous videos left me with that feeling, like he was getting actual revelation in her view, he wasn't making it up.  The problem was it was Satan telling him these things and therefore it ended up in evil because its purpose, not that what he was being taught from the other side of the view was false or that it was all make believe on Chad's part or at best a delusion of his.

More soft pedaling...'they both felt Tammy had a mission in the next life, it was time for her to move on'....not 'they were making up a horrible, sappy, sentimental feel good rationalization for their immoral desires to be rid of Tammy just as they made up a evil accusation of Charles as a possessed zombie who therefore needed to die to free the real Charles'.

I get the in part trying to tell it from their side, what they were thinking...but where is the self aware analysis of that behaviour?

So Chad's nervous after the police confrontation, kind of shaky, but Lori is acting like all is right with the world, nothing to see here.

From the way Gibb has described Lori from their first meeting, especially the phone call asking her to lie and now this postwedding cheerfulness as well as the videos of Lori with the police, Lori seems to be bouncily unaware of consequences.  I don't want to say she is fearless, because it comes across as more she doesn't care to concern herself with the possibility that things might not work out the way she wants them to.  If it is fearlessness, it is a childlike fearlessness based on not knowing they can be hurt rather than bravery in the face of danger.  

Maybe she got to that point due to mental illness or Chad feeding her bull about their unstoppable mission to where her certainty is unbreakable, she feels invulnerable.  The only time she seems to have been shaken was when first told Charles was a zombie iirc and that didn't last more than a day and then a few times during her hearings when bail reduction was denied, but even then it is what appears to be a petty annoyance from most of her facial expressions and the overheard remark at the last bail hearing of "that was a waste of money".  Even when questioning, there is this attitude of 'it is all fun, it's great' ("If Chad is Satan, he sure is a good one.") My italics.  There is appreciation there, not concern.

---

Eaton keeps soliciting her feelings that something is off.  "Odd" in this case.  She doesn't usually volunteer that iirc.  She tells the events without much analytical commentary, which Eaton therefore supplies since he wants the drama factor to stay elevated...plus he is likely very curious like the rest of us about how she managed to go along with it so long and so deep (and it was deep even though she keeps trying to maintain emotional distance by saying she didn't buy everything, she was not challenging a hidden, adulterous affair even if perhaps she didn't see anything wrong with falling out of love with your spouse and wanting to marry someone else).

'They don't feel it is unusual because Tammy had a mission, she was suppose to die, she was where she was suppose to be.'....she appears to believe Lori and Chad bought their own bull (I can't call it anything but bull, the deciding for someone else that their mission is to die when it so conveniently lines up with meaning you can hop in bed with your lusted one without fear of being caught).

Eaton keeps trying to frame her reactions as  the more expected kind, calling them to repentance, etc.

----

Alex's death...the bishop calls her about cops being at Zulema's (they are in the same ward, I assume they lived close to each other or he knew they were good friends).  She says "that was an interesting conversation".  I assume she means she is telling him the background of Chad and Lori and their dead spouses and missing kids.  So the bishop knows nothing.  She hasn't talked to him before...maybe at all. Does she know Alex is now married to Zulema?  It has only been two weeks, iirc, if either of them had missed a Sunday, she might not have known about the marriage [added she was still traveling, I assume with David Warwick as he was the friend she went and stayed with after learning the kids were missing.  But I am seriously wondering why she hasn't gone in to talk to him about this group she was with and there is at least one more member of it in her ward?  

Is this demonstrating she was intentionally keeping under the radar of church leadership?

-----

New fact:  Alex was told by someone that Melanie was going to tell the police.  

I don't know if intentional or a habit of speech, but she is sparse with details.  Feel like that may be why Eaton is leading her so much giving out details she likely shared before as in "was that when you called them evil?" and not just providing transition as it "so then Alex died...."

Why doesn't Gibb just say who told him she was going to the police rather that "it was made known to him".  So much easier to just say "Lori told me she told him I was going to the police."

She did it again with "I was asked to go check on...." and Eaton had to ask her who asked...major plot point, people, and she skips it.  It appears to be done without thought, so a habit of speech, but a strange one imo especially since she is giving an interview meant to provide details, so I would have thought her comment would be more data dense.  Definitely have to listen to the podcast to see if this is something new or different than her usual.

It is really bugging me because there are so many more little details I want to know that are getting left out (timing, location, how things looked physically, who says what, etc), stuff is too vague to satisfy me, I don't feel I am understanding the situation better or her better.  She is providing half the puzzle pieces she could hand out.

New Fact:  Maybe she is not thinking precisely enough, but Melanie says Lori said a year ago...so before Charles even died...that when she and Chad got married, there would be enough disaster (earthquake first)that no one would be paying attention to them.  Which means she was certain both Tammy and Charles would be dead soon and that she was very aware and didn't care that people would look at their remarriage to each other as something inappropriate if they learned of it.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

About 2/3 of the way through she confirms she still believes that Chad has the Gift of Visions.  However, if he was as much a visionary as he claimed why wouldn't he see this (her in jail, all the attention, police, etc) as it's 'big'.

And then she says "I don't understand how he couldn't see this."  Not that she gets now he wasn't what he claimed to be after all, so he couldn't have seen this coming....at least in a vision (some half baked rational thought would have got him there though).  Is she still leaving the door open for him seeing visions and true ones?

22:33  Oh yeah, she is still a believer!  These doctrines are dangerous and when revealed led to people dying.  God veils us from any kind of knowledge before we come to earth.  Most people don't have that information and there is a reason for that.  God doesn't want us to know because if we believe that we will think, what is the use of this life we can do it in another.  It's not helpful for your progress.  And then it would make the Atonement of Jesus Christ not effective  because you would have to keep repenting.  

And there is no need to repeat because he did it all for us?

So I am thinking she sees this as what happens to those who don't repent, don't accept the Atonement...Multiple Probations is the default if rejecting Christ and if one accepts Christ and his Atonement one can skip all that.  So not quite fullon MMP, I am guessing where to reach exaltation one must do what God did (at least a man does) and be a Holy Ghost and then a Saviour like Christ before becoming a god like Heavenly Father.

Given her more dismissive demeanor in the first interview, Chad’s ideas about light and dark ratings, zombies, portals, and some aspects of the 144,000 she sees as outright false ideas, not true ones that should be hidden.

She seems more like a typical end timer, the ones that feel comfortable mostly about their beliefs as they have been around a long time.  She believes that are visionaries, people with gifts outside the line of authority.  At this point she may see that as better kept to oneself or she just may believe people have to test it all so as not to rely on the “arm of flesh”.  I think she believes in the possibility of multiple mortal probations for those who do not accept the atonement, but believes this should not be taught as it will be used for an excuse for evil choices and desires.  She believes in those on the other side of the veil, both good and bad, are talking to those with the gift, maybe influencing those who without.  

Will listen to the podcast to see what else she might have believed before Chad and therefore likely still believes it.

This is speculation of her belief, I would appreciate it if others listened and see if they interpret it differently...if by chance she could be saying it is dangerous not because it is true, but because it is a lie.

----

She cringed when Eaton asked if lust was part of the Chadori relationship, she was comfortable calling it love, they loved each other so much.  She also flinched I think when Eaton repeated she called them evil, I got the impression she felt shame for having said that.  

After hearing the interview, I think she avoided saying anything negative about anyone.  I think she has come to a very positive view of life, training herself to avoid the negative.  This can be a great strength in going through hards times and a great support to others in need, but I am guessing it might at times get in the way of seeing selfishness and wickedness when it needs to be seen.  She never labels Chad or Lori's motives as selfish or self centered, just wanting to believe, wanting something so much.

----

It is causing some people to really dislike her.  They are interpreting it as not caring for the kids, how can she love Lori and Chad still after what they did to their spouses, their children, their extended families?  

I think she feels secure that Charles, Tammy, Tylee, and JJ are happy in paradise, so she doesn't need to worry about them, but those still here.  I would suspect she would have expressed strong feelings of live towards the Woodcocks and others if asked.  She brightened up dramatically, looked happy rather than the sadness she was carrying the rest of the time when talking about the one relative of Tammy's she connected with (unintentionally) during this time.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

This is the transcript of the police interview Melanie Gibb went as a friend of Lori Vallow at the end of January 2019, I think the day after the bodycam footage of Charles Vallow at his home and shortly before Lori abandons JJ and disappears for almost two months, including going to Hawaii.

From the current interview, Melanie Gibb knows Lori is having an affair with Chad, was there for the phone call where Chad told Lori Charles was a zombie, knows Lori had expected Charles to die on a trip (I think it was this one, but might have been earlier when he was driving rather than flying, I am thinking that is why she took off, she didn't know what to do when he showed up alive, so she drained the business accounts, took anything of value, delayed him as long as possible by canceling his plane ticket and taking his car from the airport parking lot).  Melanie also knows about all the past lives and how they were married so many times teachings.  And likely knows that Lori is believing Tammy will be dead soon as well and she will be married to Chad and no one will notice because of a massive earthquake and other destructions.

Quote

Transcription (with a little commentary)

Jan 31st 2019 –

Lori Vallow, Tylee Ryan and Melanie Gibb arrive at GPD to speak to officers about Lori’s stolen purse and phone that morning.


LV approaches the first officer (O) with a wide smile and shakes his hand. The three of them are then shown to an interview room by two officers (O and O2). LV and TR sit at the table opposite O, and MG and O2 sit on chairs to O’s right.


LV: I don’t think I’ll file a report but my friend who is a police officer told me to file a report, so.

O: okay.

LV: He said it’s just good to have it on record, so

O: Yeah, okay, I’ve got a little bit of info from dispatch.

LV: Yeah.

O: Um, said he stole your phone and your purse

O2: What happened?

LV: My whole purse. So yesterday I got in an argument with my husband on the phone and he was in Texas working, and I found some stuff that he’d been doing, so he was really defensive, and so I took the kids, we spent the night in a hotel cause I knew he was coming home, and um, so this morning when I took my son [redacted] when I went into the school to take him into school, he was waiting somewhere and like stole my purse out of the car. My whole purse, so, my phone, my wallet, my money, my everything was in there. So I didn’t have, I had the door locked but the sunroof was open, because we have a service dog and he was in the car and I didn’t want to, my son was kind of throwing a fit I didn’t want to get them both out of the car cause it was a mess this morning, (laughs - flirty) we didn’t have any of our stuff cause we spent the night in a hotel and he was out of his…element and… So I didn’t lock the door for like the first time ever, and he like whatever. Either got it out, I don’t know if the door was locked he got it out or he reached through the sunroof and just got it. But then he started texting all my family and all my friends and impersonating me, and tried, and got my friend lured over to the [MG tries to interrupt but officer indicates not to interrupt] house to meet him, where he had like kicked in the door to get into the house, and stuff, so.

O: And he did that this morning?

LV: Last night.

O: Last night.

LV: That’s [why?] I’m glad we weren’t there.

O: Right. Okay.

MG: When I got there I’m like, ‘Lori?’ ‘Where’s Lori?’

LV: Well he texted [shouts over MG] her from my phone because he was pretending to be me, saying ‘oh come meet me at the house’, whatever…so.

O: Okay. [Asks MG] How did he, what did he say to you, then?

MG: He said, ‘can you come to the house now?’ And I said ‘sure’. And [I?] proceeded to act like he was himself.

TR: Do you have those text messages on your phone?

MG: I don’t have it on my phone. But, so when I got there I said um, ‘you’ve been using Lori’s phone to connect with me’. He was ‘sorry, I’ve deceived you’. I said ’Oh, okay, how you doing, luckily there were some other people there that were…

LV: [interrupts] So he got, he was changing the locks and probably having the door fixed where he’d kicked it in.

MG [shouting over Lori] the locksmiths were there, the locksmiths were there, so they were there, but there was a white suburban which I, you know, I don’t know, I don’t know where he got that car but anyway, there was a few vehicles so I didn’t know, you know, who, I, I, I suspected it would be her.. I should have noticed that your car wasn’t there, but I didn’t notice that.

O: Okay [to LV] what kind of car do you drive?

LV: An Infiniti QX80

TR: Black.

O; So you got to the house, and then, you got there, he said ‘yeah I deceived you’ and then? What was he calling you there for?

MG: He wanted me to come over there and get some information about her, pretty much.

O: Oh okay, what did he ask you?

MG: He was asking like, ‘what’s got into her?’, like

LV: [interrupts] where is she, right?

MG: ‘Where is she?’ Course I didn’t say where she was. I didn’t know where she was, she didn’t actually tell me.

LV: I didn’t tell anybody what hotel we’re at cause I said it’s safer for everybody to not know [laughing]

MG: He just basically wanted me to take a side of things and just say

LV: [interrupts] Told her how crazy I was and stuff like that.

MG: Right. 

O: Hmm. What was your name?

MG: Melanie.

O: Your last name?

MG: Gibb.

O: Okay, just for documentation later, what’s your date of birth? [redacted]

O: So okay, he had you come there, he was asking you questions, so like is this something that’s happened before, is this like…?

LV: Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah, we’ve had to leave and go to hotels just until he calms down or something. You know. So, we’ve done that before.

O: What is it, like that motivates him doing this kind of stuff, is it, does he say why?

LV: He just goes nuts sometimes.

O: Just goes nuts sometimes?

LV: [shouts over him] But, this time I caught him cheating and I had evidence and I told him about it and he travels a lot for business so, I told him about it, and told him not to come home and that his stuff would be gone and that his car would be gone and all those things (Tylee puts her hand over on the table in front of LV, in a quieten down motion) (lots of laughter from LV and MG) So he was a little mad..

MG: She’s just trying to protect herself.

LV: But I just left with the kids cause I don’t want them in all the drama (says with a sickly smile and turning to look straight at Tylee by her side), so

TR: Yeah.

O: So then he took your phone and purse and has he tried to make contact with you since?

LV: He’s tried to contact me through her… I don’t have a way to be contacted (lots of cross-talking and inaudible words)

MG: I didn’t know what her ph…, I couldn’t contact her

LV: Nobody could contact me, I just went and bought a phone so I could have a phone, a little throwaway phone so I could

O2: Have you called him to ask him if he’d bring your stuff back?

LV: Well he talked to her about it (points at MG) so he says sh…

MG: Yeah. I said would you be willing to give me the purse for Lori? You know. Um. And he goes ‘no, unless she does this, this and’ you know ‘all these things done.

O2: Don’t speak in generalities, we want specifics.

MG: Oh sorry. He wants me to meet him at therapy today,

LV: [for some money or something?] (lots of cross-talking hard to decipher who says what) –

MG: He [wasn’t going to?] give you the purse he’s just is saying he’d give it to me if I meet him there. (I think this is MG, could be LV): I don’t really want to talk to him today if I don’t have to.

O2: Okay, so if we get, if we have him bring the purse back are we all good? Like, I mean, you’re not willing to meet with him at, with the therapist or anything?

LV: Well…

O2: To try to get it back?

LV: I don’t want to meet him, cause I don’t know, (childish voice) he’s very sneaky, so like what he’ll do is meet me in the parking lot and mess around with me, you know, whatever, like he’s not going to just…

O2: What if we call him and see if he’ll come here

LV: [continues shouting over O2] …let me walk into therapy but

O2: and we can facilitate him giving your purse back?

LV: (sheepishly & unconvincingly) that will be fine, if you want to try that (mouse-like voice). (louder) I know he has it because he, he’s texting and (shouting) all my family, and the kids too!

MG: Definitely, so we know it was him that took the purse. Because he had her phone.

O: What’s he texting you? (to TR)

TR: Um, he, I have the text (pulls out her phone). He was basically just texting me

LV: (interrupts) He’s acting like my son was in danger, ‘I’ve been worried about JJ’s safety and…’

TR: (raises her hand to Lori and says okay, then shushes her)

LV: And things and texting her like he’s gonna

TR: So he at first text me, ‘are you doing okay today, hey girl are you [redacted] please [redacted] your mum I may not be home for a bit, love you, sent me a strange link to a website about our church,

LV: about [??cussing??] people

TR: Yeah, um said this is what’s happening, and then he text me at almost midnight ‘I’m so [redacted] but I have no choice, I’m just sick [redacted] danger, I had no choice’. Which I’m, he didn’t file a police report or anything as far as we know, so I’m just assuming he was trying to get a response, and then ‘I love you’. He was

O: A police report about what?

TR: Err, I don’t know, but he was acting like he did something [?]. ((my note - I’m assuming this was to do with Charles getting a committal order for Lori))

O: And then those text messages came from, do you have it entered as Mom’s phone?

TR: No that was from him.

LV: No that was before, that’s before, he didn’t take the purse until 8:30 this morning

TR: This was last night.

LV: At school.

TR: And he was sending word for word this same text to my cousin, like

O: What’s his name?

LV: Charles

O: What’s his phone number? [redacted] Does he have the same last name as you?

LV: Yeah Vallow. Mhm. Charles Vallow. So my friend told me, my friend that’s a police officer, he said go file a report, file a [(garbled words) restraining order?] all that stuff, I don’t want to do all that stuff, I just wanted it to be on record and if we can get the purse back that’ll be lovely, cause all my stuff is in there. I’m really mad about my lip gloss. (laughter) He has all the cards with all the stuff, so he’s mad cause I took the money out of our account but it’s a joint account, so he wants me to give him money, and

O2: Okay, that’s all a civil issue. Purse? There’s no reason why he’s walking around with your purse, your I.D., that he doesn’t have a right to.

LV: Right, that’s what I’m saying, all the rest of the stuff is our joint stuff together, so.

O: Alright, um, we’re going to leave the room temporarily, we’re going to try to give him a call, see if we can’t get this rectified.

LV: (saccharin voice) That’d be great.

TR: Thank you.

O: You’re welcome.

Officers leave room

O2: Do you want to make this call or do you want me to call

O: I don’t know, this one’s a little confusing for me, honestly, laughs.

 

Judge for yourself if Melanie is participating in a deception or not.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/id-joshua-vallow-7-tylee-ryan-17-rexburg-sept-2019-mom-arrested-30.515204/page-40#post-15996249

[Calm]

In the first interview this is what Melanie says about Charles:

Quote

Gibb never saw Charles lose his temper but says he and Lori often argued. She confided in Gibb that they were having marital problems, and there was a lot of contention.

“He was trying to do things to help her and please her, and she seemed like she was struggling to be happy by that,” Gibb says. “She seemed a little frustrated with him. They had something going on that I didn’t quite understand.”

Nothing about Charles allegedly cheating, nothing about whether or not Lori had to routinely leave the house with JJ out of fear of Charles' temper.

I so wish Eaton had asked her about this interview.  I wonder if it was off the list because she might have to testify about it.  All I remember was about her waiting outside while Lori was getting her mental evaluation.

There is a little more detail in the video...Eaton asks Gibb if she ever saw Charles angry, etc. and she says no...says yes for Lori.

I may watch the second video later as I want to be sure I heard what I thought I heard as well as if there was more said.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Calm

[Tacenda]

I wonder what all of these people think about what has happened. Rachael Dixon's podcasts are still up, maybe I'll listen to a couple.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Tacenda

[Tacenda]

https://www.annielytics.com/blog/personal/timeline-events-around-disappearance-of-tylee-ryan-jj-vallow/

This timeline is put out by Joe Ryan's sister and is probably not new news to any of you on this thread and maybe has already been shared but wanted to share in case it might be helpful. Makes me wonder how these people's deaths surrounding Lori, could have been masked to look like heart attacks or blood clots or natural causes, etc. I wonder if there is some kind of drug that is invisible to the eye that could cause deaths like these. 

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Tacenda

[Tacenda]

11 hours ago, Calm said:

You can see imo the toll the past year has taken on her when you compare her brightness, even a sense of forwardness  coming through imo with her more subdued, tired character now. 

Thanks for posting that. It confirms she was definitely not just an observer of the movement who was attracted, but not fully committed to follow, but as Jason Moew*** calls her the “point person” for likeminded people in the SW area. 

I found this youtube of the lady that actually saved a few of these podcasts and most likely where someone got the very first warrior up podcast, I'm following her because she is going to post more hopefully soon. I emailed her for information, because she mentions that if you email her she'll be able to give some links, unless I misunderstood her. But I did send an email. So I guess I'll see what she says. 

 

[alter idem]

On 5/28/2020 at 2:19 PM, Calm said:

Since she is teaching classes, giving talks at PaP conferences (seriously, labeling yourself "pap"*** is not the smartest branding for an organization that wants to appear to be cutting edge in all thing semiChurch related), and podcasting, Melanie  may not be as introverted as she appears and is just subdued by events and exhausted by the drama or maybe she reverted to old habits under stress as she says she grew up in a dysfunctional family.  I should try and find a podcast and listen to her if I am going to continue playing armchair psychologist.

A link below to her book shows it published in Feb 2019, just as things with Chadori are ramping up.  It is even stranger to me that she provides nothing of this in the interview and makes it appear (outside of her class) iirc that she is a mere follower who shows up at events rather than one of the leaders (many, many leaders) of this movement (the end times/prepper/mysteries of God movement, two examples of these groups are Prepare A People--events hosted, collected speakers that they may or may not agree with from what they say; Chad being one, David Warwick being another, Julie Rowe, Shawn Littlebear and a host of others with most sounding on the fringe and the handful I have looked at being self-elevating as opposed to humble, did podcast including with hosts Lori Vallow, Gibb, Daybell, Jason Moew--and AVOW or A Voice of Warning--private message boards within private boards of which Chad has his own, plus published a newsletter or something for them.

At the time she is writing, she is married with four kids, one of whom is Asperger's (did she ever mention this and that she bonded in part by sharing experiences on the autism spectrum.  I got the impression she had little actual interaction with JJ and didn't feel comfortable with him that much,  I assume she still is married in February from the book.  One comment said her divorce was finalized in August 2019....so unlike the calm, dramafree life outside of Lori she portrays in the interview, her own life seems to be in turmoil during this time.  Again a split marriage, quicky divorce, and new boyfriend, though no marriage.  And we don't know if her kids were a big part of her life prior to her going into hiding or not.  Explains why it is easy for her to do so.

https://www.amazon.com/Feel-Fire-Melanie-Gibb-ebook/dp/B07NS93PB9/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Melanie+gibb&qid=1590696067&sr=8-1

 

***Pap:  "bland soft or semiliquid food such as that suitable for babies or invalids" or literally the milk, not the meat. Also:  "reading matter or entertainment that is worthless or lacking in substance"

Foreword of her book by Chad Daybell:  https://www.screencast.com/t/zwNFDCOiP

 

He writes they met in 2017...assuming she is accurate in interviews, this is just hellos, being at same conferences, minimal action till Lori comes along.  However, in the book, she comes up to him and is quite open and soon they are talking like old friends.  Were they inflating their value to each other for the purpose of selling the book or is she trying to downplay her relationship with him?

I wondered the same thing, especially in re reading the 'Zombie email'.  At the time I heard it, I felt that Melanie G. was in the thick of it, that she was as involved and believing and likely she was, at least with the 144,000 and they're all being special people with special end times missions.  However, it could be that she wasn't as knowledgeable about the dark spirits and zombie stuff, as that seemed to come later.  Chad sent the email to Lori about it in fall of 2018, but at that time, Charles was still considered a light spirit.  And her own marriage was fell apart and she was dating David Warwick by Fall 2019, and he is also a 'visionary' involved with PAP, as I understand.  I suspect she is now trying to distance herself from it, just as Melani Pawlowski was doing.  And, also how the Cox family has acted like they have no knowledge of this stuff at all. I doubt they had no clue.

 

I still find it interesting that Julie Rowe was so vocal about her own special 'mission' and importance to end times, she was making her podcasts and she seemed to be the one who was way out on the fringe, but then, we come to find out that Chad is right out there too, he just wasn't sharing this information with the world, I guess he was being discreet, sharing it only with certain hand picked individuals and I find it surprising, that I didn't get any whiff of it, considering on another forum, we had some people who would share with us what was happening with this group over at AVOW, but the only thing I recall that got out about Chad was his 'train dream'.  

I wonder if Chad's bishop in Rexburg is holding a disciplinary court on him, I hope they got it started before the Covid shutdown.  If not, I hope they'll call him in as soon as they can to answer for his heretical teachings and the allegations that he's been teaching them to others and also his alleged affair with Lori Vallow last year. Chad's family needs a wake up call that he is in up to his ears in this whole mess.

[alter idem]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I found this youtube of the lady that actually saved a few of these podcasts and most likely where someone got the very first warrior up podcast, I'm following her because she is going to post more hopefully soon. I emailed her for information, because she mentions that if you email her she'll be able to give some links, unless I misunderstood her. But I did send an email. So I guess I'll see what she says. 

 

Thanks for sharing that, Tacenda!

[alter idem]

16 hours ago, Calm said:

Watching the video now.  I am still being very troubled with how she is choosing to phrase things as believing in Chad's claims as actual true revelation and not saying anything now that shows a strong rejection of those claims as anything but manipulative BS.  She phrases it as Chad "knew this information" for quite awhile making it sound like she sees it as foreknowledge.  I am not getting any sense of "duh, of course, he knew because it was what he wanted and it happened now because he made it happen by killing her or having her killed".

Hopefully she clarifies later, but the previous videos left me with that feeling, like he was getting actual revelation in her view, he wasn't making it up.  The problem was it was Satan telling him these things and therefore it ended up in evil because its purpose, not that what he was being taught from the other side of the view was false or that it was all make believe on Chad's part or at best a delusion of his.

More soft pedaling...'they both felt Tammy had a mission in the next life, it was time for her to move on'....not 'they were making up a horrible, sappy, sentimental feel good rationalization for their immoral desires to be rid of Tammy just as they made up a evil accusation of Charles as a possessed zombie who therefore needed to die to free the real Charles'.

I get the in part trying to tell it from their side, what they were thinking...but where is the self aware analysis of that behaviour?

So Chad's nervous after the police confrontation, kind of shaky, but Lori is acting like all is right with the world, nothing to see here.

From the way Gibb has described Lori from their first meeting, especially the phone call asking her to lie and now this postwedding cheerfulness as well as the videos of Lori with the police, Lori seems to be bouncily unaware of consequences.  I don't want to say she is fearless, because it comes across as more she doesn't care to concern herself with the possibility that things might not work out the way she wants them to.  If it is fearlessness, it is a childlike fearlessness based on not knowing they can be hurt rather than bravery in the face of danger.  

Maybe she got to that point due to mental illness or Chad feeding her bull about their unstoppable mission to where her certainty is unbreakable, she feels invulnerable.  The only time she seems to have been shaken was when first told Charles was a zombie iirc and that didn't last more than a day and then a few times during her hearings when bail reduction was denied, but even then it is what appears to be a petty annoyance from most of her facial expressions and the overheard remark at the last bail hearing of "that was a waste of money".  Even when questioning, there is this attitude of 'it is all fun, it's great' ("If Chad is Satan, he sure is a good one.") My italics.  There is appreciation there, not concern.

---I think Lori is a Narcissist.  I remember Charles' ex wife saying that Lori seemed to love drama and excitement of going to court with custody issues (It was an interview she gave months ago),  while everyone was stressed and unhappy, she seemed to be enjoying being in the spotlight.  We've all wondered why she doesn't just tell where the children are (that is if they are alive)  but she's dragging this out.  And when she and Chad were in Hawaii, being hounded by reporters, she seemed non-plussed, but Chad was uncomfortable.

Eaton keeps soliciting her feelings that something is off.  "Odd" in this case.  She doesn't usually volunteer that iirc.  She tells the events without much analytical commentary, which Eaton therefore supplies since he wants the drama factor to stay elevated...plus he is likely very curious like the rest of us about how she managed to go along with it so long and so deep (and it was deep even though she keeps trying to maintain emotional distance by saying she didn't buy everything, she was not challenging a hidden, adulterous affair even if perhaps she didn't see anything wrong with falling out of love with your spouse and wanting to marry someone else).

'They don't feel it is unusual because Tammy had a mission, she was suppose to die, she was where she was suppose to be.'....she appears to believe Lori and Chad bought their own bull (I can't call it anything but bull, the deciding for someone else that their mission is to die when it so conveniently lines up with meaning you can hop in bed with your lusted one without fear of being caught).

Eaton keeps trying to frame her reactions as  the more expected kind, calling them to repentance, etc.

----

Alex's death...the bishop calls her about cops being at Zulema's (they are in the same ward, I assume they lived close to each other or he knew they were good friends).  She says "that was an interesting conversation".  I assume she means she is telling him the background of Chad and Lori and their dead spouses and missing kids.  So the bishop knows nothing.  She hasn't talked to him before...maybe at all. Does she know Alex is now married to Zulema?  It has only been two weeks, iirc, if either of them had missed a Sunday, she might not have known about the marriage [added she was still traveling, I assume with David Warwick as he was the friend she went and stayed with after learning the kids were missing.  But I am seriously wondering why she hasn't gone in to talk to him about this group she was with and there is at least one more member of it in her ward?  

Is this demonstrating she was intentionally keeping under the radar of church leadership?

-----In the 911 call, Zulema's son didn't even seem to know that Alex was married to his mother.  I wonder if many even knew about the marriage since her son didn't know--two weeks after it happened.  I agree, I think Melani G. had not talked to her Bishop about any of this, I think they were all staying under church radar.  Do you remember a couple of months ago, the leaked posts by Hector Sosa on his private website (I think it was Pathway to Zion??), he was telling his members that they were closing the website and everyone should not share any of the doctrines they'd talked about amongst themselves at church meetings. They were to keep a low profile, obviously because Hector felt they'd  be called in by the Bishops, if they started sharing these beliefs.  I don't know if these were all the same beliefs, but I bet they shared a few of the same.

New fact:  Alex was told by someone that Melanie was going to tell the police.  

This could have surely unsettled Alex, and if he had anything to do with the disappearance and possible deaths of the children, Alex would have known that his involvement, would lead straight back to Lori.

I don't know if intentional or a habit of speech, but she is sparse with details.  Feel like that may be why Eaton is leading her so much giving out details she likely shared before as in "was that when you called them evil?" and not just providing transition as it "so then Alex died...."

Why doesn't Gibb just say who told him she was going to the police rather that "it was made known to him".  So much easier to just say "Lori told me she told him I was going to the police."

She did it again with "I was asked to go check on...." and Eaton had to ask her who asked...major plot point, people, and she skips it.  It appears to be done without thought, so a habit of speech, but a strange one imo especially since she is giving an interview meant to provide details, so I would have thought her comment would be more data dense.  Definitely have to listen to the podcast to see if this is something new or different than her usual.

It is really bugging me because there are so many more little details I want to know that are getting left out (timing, location, how things looked physically, who says what, etc), stuff is too vague to satisfy me, I don't feel I am understanding the situation better or her better.  She is providing half the puzzle pieces she could hand out.

New Fact:  Maybe she is not thinking precisely enough, but Melanie says Lori said a year ago...so before Charles even died...that when she and Chad got married, there would be enough disaster (earthquake first)that no one would be paying attention to them.  Which means she was certain both Tammy and Charles would be dead soon and that she was very aware and didn't care that people would look at their remarriage to each other as something inappropriate if they learned of it.

I think Lori and Chad got together in a romantic way in the Fall of 2018, him immediately telling her they'd been married in past lives.  I think they were planning for a while, but maybe the plans to get rid of spouses was more thinking that God would get rid of them for  them, at that time.  But it wasn't happening quick enough for them and Chad insisted they were not to get divorced, but wait for their spouses to die.  Lori was frustrated that Charles didn't die on his business trip in the summer, and Chad was frustrated when Lori was rid of Charles that Fall, but Tammy was stubbornly not dead yet.  

The earthquake is interesting, this is something Julie Rowe and Hector Sosa have been claiming in their visions for several years now.  Interesting that Chad and Lori believed in that Earthquake that was supposed to happen in the Fall of some year.  

I think Melani G. is still holding back because she was really a believer at one time, and still likely believes some of the things they all believed.  I'm not sure she has yet come to the conclusion that it was all lies and deception.  That she'd been deceived. 

[Calm]

7 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I found this youtube of the lady that actually saved a few of these podcasts and most likely where someone got the very first warrior up podcast, I'm following her because she is going to post more hopefully soon. I emailed her for information, because she mentions that if you email her she'll be able to give some links, unless I misunderstood her. But I did send an email. So I guess I'll see what she says. 

 

👍

[Calm]

2 hours ago, alter idem said:

And, also how the Cox family has acted like they have no knowledge of this stuff at all. I doubt they had no clue.

Summer lived nearby, iirc. And Lori gushed it all according to Melanie, at least to those who knew something. I just don’t see her keeping quiet with Summer unless she gave off vibes she wouldn’t accept it.  But Lori can keep her mouth shut when she wants to. And she never invited Summer to her weddings, so maybe she didn’t need another minion. Plus maybe Summer wasn’t into idol worship/protection duty as much as Alex was. 
 

Alex was apparently clueless in the beginning, but he was there apparently for when Chad came out to speak, so I see no reason to assume Lori intentionally excluded her family. 
 

Quote

by Hector Sosa on his private website (

Yep, I was just going to mention it in response to Tac’s ‘wonder what these people think now’ question. 
Sosa acted like he knew it all, mouthed the same conspiracy the Coxes did iirc, completely supportive of Chadori...I don’t know if he knew the extent as there does seem to be both cooperation and competition among the so-called visionaries.  He definitely made it very clear (unintentionally)that the subculture of this mentality found deception easily acceptable in service of their cause...and that can be too easily rationalized into service of anything if one is using visions and newly revealed ‘doctrine’ to rewrite the rules already. 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Calm

[Tacenda]

4 hours ago, alter idem said:

I think Lori and Chad got together in a romantic way in the Fall of 2018, him immediately telling her they'd been married in past lives.  I think they were planning for a while, but maybe the plans to get rid of spouses was more thinking that God would get rid of them for  them, at that time.  But it wasn't happening quick enough for them and Chad insisted they were not to get divorced, but wait for their spouses to die.  Lori was frustrated that Charles didn't die on his business trip in the summer, and Chad was frustrated when Lori was rid of Charles that Fall, but Tammy was stubbornly not dead yet.  

The earthquake is interesting, this is something Julie Rowe and Hector Sosa have been claiming in their visions for several years now.  Interesting that Chad and Lori believed in that Earthquake that was supposed to happen in the Fall of some year.  

 

I love that we got some little earthquakes in both Utah and Idaho, like HF was teasing them, that is if HF even controls the weather, haha.

[alter idem]

On 5/29/2020 at 3:04 AM, Calm said:

This is the transcript of the police interview Melanie Gibb went as a friend of Lori Vallow at the end of January 2019, I think the day after the bodycam footage of Charles Vallow at his home and shortly before Lori abandons JJ and disappears for almost two months, including going to Hawaii.

From the current interview, Melanie Gibb knows Lori is having an affair with Chad, was there for the phone call where Chad told Lori Charles was a zombie, knows Lori had expected Charles to die on a trip (I think it was this one, but might have been earlier when he was driving rather than flying, I am thinking that is why she took off, she didn't know what to do when he showed up alive, so she drained the business accounts, took anything of value, delayed him as long as possible by canceling his plane ticket and taking his car from the airport parking lot).  Melanie also knows about all the past lives and how they were married so many times teachings.  And likely knows that Lori is believing Tammy will be dead soon as well and she will be married to Chad and no one will notice because of a massive earthquake and other destructions.

Judge for yourself if Melanie is participating in a deception or not.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/id-joshua-vallow-7-tylee-ryan-17-rexburg-sept-2019-mom-arrested-30.515204/page-40#post-15996249

Melanie Gibb was at Lori's side, backing her up, no question. I wonder how much she knew of the truth, at the time.  Lori makes me feel ill, I can't imagine what Charles had to go through having a spouse turn into your biggest nightmare. It's just sickening to think what his last few months of marriage were like, and we know how it ended.

Lori is a liar, and manipulative, she thrives on drama, she creates it, those poor children didn't have a chance once she went down this path. 

I'm surprised the police didn't see her contradictions, did she lock the car or didn't she? She claims Charles was cheating but no evidence has come to support it, but lori wants to paint herself the victim,  she knows all the crap she's pulled to get him upset, she took his truck,  he still didn't know what she did with it, she'd taken all their money,  taken all his clothes, but she gives the police her whitewash version. Her version is she found evidence her husband was cheating while he was on business oot, she takes the kids and hides at a hotel. She accuses him of kicking the door in (the police did it). Did the police interviewing even wonder why Charles couldn't get in his own home? Did they read that police report? I doubt it,  they never read any of the past files they had on any of them when they investigated Charles' violent death. There was obviously more to this. What is terrible too is lori involving her daughter in this charade. 

[alter idem]

14 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I love that we got some little earthquakes in both Utah and Idaho, like HF was teasing them, that is if HF even controls the weather, haha.

When we had those earthquakes I wondered if they were all happy,  thinking the big one was coming.  I think some who share their visions, dreams of catastrophe,  want things to happen to prove them right, and of course,  it'll help sell books, subscriptions etc.

[Calm]

53 minutes ago, alter idem said:

Did they read that police report? I doubt it,  they never read any of the past files they had on any of them when they investigated Charles' violent death

One was Gilbert police, the other Chandler as Lori had moved. I don’t know if the one for the shooting had access to the files of the domestic conflict or whatever it would be called. Ridiculous if they didn’t.  They knew she had just moved there. 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

54 minutes ago, alter idem said:

Melanie Gibb was at Lori's side, backing her up, no question. I wonder how much she knew of the truth, at the time. 

The way she spoke of it, the affair pretty much was in from the first meet. And the get together had to be in the first house prior to Charles’ bodycam. Plus the zombie stuff that Lori told Charles, Melanie was there. So she knew of the affair, knew that Lori thought Charles was a zombie, and if Charles talked to her that morning as she reports, he would have told her Lori threatened him surely?

Now maybe she was quiet because Tylee was in the room and she didn’t want to hurt/freak her out, but she could have shared by going back in without Lori and she didn’t. 
 

I get the police thought it was trivial and didn’t want to waste resources on it and she was making a report and not being interrogated, but no follow up it seems. I guess they figured that was the domain of marriage counselors and divorce lawyers.

[alter idem]

52 minutes ago, Calm said:

The way she spoke of it, the affair pretty much was in from the first meet. And the get together had to be in the first house prior to Charles’ bodycam. Plus the zombie stuff that Lori told Charles, Melanie was there. So she knew of the affair, knew that Lori thought Charles was a zombie, and if Charles talked to her that morning as she reports, he would have told her Lori threatened him surely?

Now maybe she was quiet because Tylee was in the room and she didn’t want to hurt/freak her out, but she could have shared by going back in without Lori and she didn’t. 
 

I get the police thought it was trivial and didn’t want to waste resources on it and she was making a report and not being interrogated, but no follow up it seems. I guess they figured that was the domain of marriage counselors and divorce lawyers.

Yea, hindsight is 20/20....  I'm sure they just saw it as a domestic dispute, non violent, just a married couple having a spat, they probably took the report, filed it and that was it.  Charles seemed to be alone in his fears that something was really 'off' with Lori and that her behavior was escalating and his concerns for his own safety were valid.

[Tacenda]

12 hours ago, alter idem said:

When we had those earthquakes I wondered if they were all happy,  thinking the big one was coming.  I think some who share their visions, dreams of catastrophe,  want things to happen to prove them right, and of course,  it'll help sell books, subscriptions etc.

I thought the same.

[Tacenda]

Here is a podcast with Julie Rowe. Haven't listened yet, should be interesting. https://www.yearofpolygamy.com/uncategorized/181-part-one-american-prophetess-an-interview-with-julie-rowe/