Update on Story Re: Missing Kids (Daybell)

[alter idem]

22 hours ago, Calm said:

I wonder if she had been writing him before this. If not, then I wonder how many other women he had done this with. 
 

So not something Tammy knew about. 
 

Chad made sure to set himself up as the one on the higher plane (many more lives AND a Holy Ghost).  At least in the beginning it sounds like Chad is the dominant one. 
 

I wonder if Lori suggested they divorce and marry...seeing she had done so 3 times already, it wouldn’t seem so disruptive to her. It was Chad whose life would be upended and others not be that understanding if he got divorced to marry another woman. Outside the already believing, his credibility would take a plunge. Not invited to many homes afterwards most likely, not as many looking at him as a pure conduit of spirit. And likely major loss of support from his family, especially his kids. 
 

Not to mention both would lose the stable source of income in their lives.  After so many lives, they deserved some financial comfort, right?

Great point, in both marriages, the other spouse was the breadwinner.  Charles made an excellent living and Lori had no income.  Chad's income was down, he wasn't doing well in the Book business, we know they were having financial problems, but Tammy's job was stable and she was the main breadwinner.  To divorce meant the only income would be from Chad's book business, which was struggling.  But....the insurance money would have made the problem of money go away.  Lori believed she was the beneficiary of Charles' life insurance, but she found out after his death that she was not.  There went one million dollars she'd been expecting.  We know Chad increased Tammy's life insurance, though I don't know when, so that when she died he received at least 430,000 dollars.  It would have kept them in comfort for awhile, even at the rate they spent money, if they hadn't had to start spending it on lawyers' fees.

[katherine the great]

26 minutes ago, alter idem said:

Great point, in both marriages, the other spouse was the breadwinner.  Charles made an excellent living and Lori had no income.  Chad's income was down, he wasn't doing well in the Book business, we know they were having financial problems, but Tammy's job was stable and she was the main breadwinner.  To divorce meant the only income would be from Chad's book business, which was struggling.  But....the insurance money would have made the problem of money go away.  Lori believed she was the beneficiary of Charles' life insurance, but she found out after his death that she was not.  There went one million dollars she'd been expecting.  We know Chad increased Tammy's life insurance, though I don't know when, so that when she died he received at least 430,000 dollars.  It would have kept them in comfort for awhile, even at the rate they spent money, if they hadn't had to start spending it on lawyers' fees.

I wonder how Charles' estate was settled. Since he removed Lori from his life insurance, he may have disinherited her as well. Still, I would imagine that she would have walked away with at least half of the assets he earned during the 12+ years they were married.

[Kenngo1969]

On 5/25/2020 at 6:09 PM, Calm said:

 ...Then when reality came back to bite him full on ...

 

21 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Where?

Sorry.  Couldn't resist!  Carry on!

 

21 hours ago, Calm said:

Oohhh...I can think of a few choice places.

Ouch!   That sounds ... painful!

   

  

[alter idem]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

Be sure and watch the video. 
 

Gibb never comes out and say “kill”, neither does the interviewer. They just said  “passed” over and over.  I wonder if the lawyers or LE told them not to say kill or murder or whether Gibb just can’t handle thinking of their deaths in that way. 

It is hard for me to get where she is in terms of belief. I think from comments she said yesterday she might have a habit to never challenge others’ beliefs, either out of respect or a desire to be open to truth whatever the source. But she does say the teaching of Multiple Mortal Probations is from Satan and because it was taught and believed, people are dead and Lori will now need to admit she is responsible that her family is dead, though she doesn’t quite say it that way. 

I just watched,  I am so glad she went to police rather than lie and cover up. After watching,  I'm more convinced they were having an affair,  and the children are dead. Tylee was missing first, then JJ. 

Important things I noted were that she said JJ was in the way of her mission, she discussed with melani options and sending him to kay was the best. She did believe JJ was a zombie.  Chad told her this. Chad insisted she move to Rexburg.  They were seeing each other behind Tammy's back.  Melani called it a fatal attraction.

She specifically called out the false doctrine of multiple mortal probations and said that it led to deaths. I agree it's a dangerous belief to family and marriages and I think church leaders need to speak out publicly against it because it's gaining adherents among members on the internet, imo. She also recognized their working in the dark, hiding to spread their beliefs among other members. This needs to stop.

[alter idem]

1 hour ago, katherine the great said:

I wonder how Charles' estate was settled. Since he removed Lori from his life insurance, he may have disinherited her as well. Still, I would imagine that she would have walked away with at least half of the assets he earned during the 12+ years they were married.

He did say he didn't want Lori's family to get anything. I don't know inheritance laws in Arizona and Texas,  but she got his immediate belongings,  his sons said she only gave them a couple of inexpensive watches, the cars may have been leases, the houses seem to have been rented.  But she had access to bank accounts and maybe retirement accounts, unless they were tied to the business and not as easily accessible anymore.  Charles and his business associates may have made some changes after she cleaned out that checking account back in January.  Hopefully he did.

[Calm]

4 hours ago, alter idem said:

Great point, in both marriages, the other spouse was the breadwinner.  Charles made an excellent living and Lori had no income.  Chad's income was down, he wasn't doing well in the Book business, we know they were having financial problems, but Tammy's job was stable and she was the main breadwinner.  To divorce meant the only income would be from Chad's book business, which was struggling.  But....the insurance money would have made the problem of money go away.  Lori believed she was the beneficiary of Charles' life insurance, but she found out after his death that she was not.  There went one million dollars she'd been expecting.  We know Chad increased Tammy's life insurance, though I don't know when, so that when she died he received at least 430,000 dollars.  It would have kept them in comfort for awhile, even at the rate they spent money, if they hadn't had to start spending it on lawyers' fees.

In today’s  video, Melanie shares Lori didn’t want another divorce. She was convinced that Charles and likely Tammy would be dying it sounds like by early 2019, so the affair only had a few months at most where she would have been thinking divorce might be necessary to create her dream life of Chad joining her in Arizona (she apparently thought that would happen until August when Chad revealed she was to move to Rexburg).

Melanie also said that Lori was unsure if she or Kay was named the beneficiary, I am thinking this is after she got in and tried to lock Charles out. Any intelligent being would wonder if they had alerted their spouse by doing that. I bet she thought he would be dead before he had a chance to act on his concern. 

[Calm]

4 hours ago, katherine the great said:

I wonder how Charles' estate was settled. Since he removed Lori from his life insurance, he may have disinherited her as well. Still, I would imagine that she would have walked away with at least half of the assets he earned during the 12+ years they were married.

Arizona is a community property state, so the general assumption from discussions I have seen is if the life insurance was bought or paid in part with income while they were married she would get half or at least a prorated amount depending on how much was paid during the marriage even if Charles named someone else. However, if bought before the marriage, there would be no entitlement. 
 

As far as Charles’ estate, it appears there was little there. All properties were apparently leased, cars were leased as well. Houses were expensive and cars were recent/latest models. Lori had charge of the finances because Charles was not good with money (as in paying bills I believe) according to Kay.  Plus there was a $200,000 promissory note that would need to be paid out of his estate (life insurance wouldn’t be touched by that I believe).
 

Some websleuths did income/expense calculations (guesstimates) and there wasn’t much leftover for savings.  Lori had also already cleaned out twice the business accounts.  Once was when she left Charles and JJ the first time and took $35,000 so he couldn’t make payday for employees;in the bodycam Charles says he has $7 which is in his wallet.  Second time was the short ‘reconciliation’. It looks like she learned a commission was coming, agreed to move to Texas with Charles to work on their marriage and then a week or so later when the money came in, emptied that account again over two dates and then took off (I think with JJ this time) back to Arizona. Charles then financed leasing the townhouse for her and the kids and appears to have given up on the marriage, but was killed before he could do anything (iirc he had a business trip, so that may have delayed him taking action).

All that to say I have the impression she had already got most of the money they had, no way would she have drained the business account and not drained any shared personal accounts as well.  And Charles would not have said he only had $7 if he had a private savings account with funds. Anything left would have gone first to the creditors, not leaving much for Lori...which explains why there appears to be no action by her to get the estate settled, instead just leaving it to the state to take care of it as far as can be seen. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

3 hours ago, alter idem said:

They were seeing each other behind Tammy's back.

They even were public in their affections with Melanie seeing it and being told it was okay because while people knew who Chad was (did they or was that just more fantasy?), Tammy was rarely with him in public (I am assuming outside their local neighborhood) and therefore if people saw Lori and Charles together, they would just assume it was Tammy.  
 

Which makes me ill that in the four years they had lived there Chad had so little public life with Tammy he could now pretend that Lori was Tammy.  Sounds like he never treated her to dinner, never went shopping or walking through parks or even went to the temple much with her like he wanted to do with Lori enough to risk discovery.  And no fear of being discovered by his kids or ward members either. 

Either they thought they would somehow be protected or the time that Chad was living this double life would be so short, there was little risk. 

Since Lori thought Tammy would be dead before she got up there iirc, seems like it was the latter. And either Chad actually believed his own crap or he had a plan to kill his wife already in mind and just hadn’t had a chance to make it work. I wonder if it was Chad who was the ‘paint baller’ and when he couldn’t shoot or something was wrong with the gun, he ran to the backyard and tore off the jacket and mask, hid those and the gun as from pictures there was really no place for the shooter to hide.  

[Calm]

3 hours ago, alter idem said:

He did say he didn't want Lori's family to get anything

Where was that?

That was nasty she wouldn’t even give his sons a couple of his collection of watches, something to remember him by. That shows the pure self centeredness, penny pinching when it came to others, extravagant for her own desires (Hawaii) of Lori by that time...though she managed to wait till on the run to start blowing the money.  A $35 wedding ring and what appeared like not too expensive clothing choices, minimal furniture in her townhouse...outside her personal appearance which perhaps she did herself as she was a trained hair dresser, seems like she may have been saving for her paradise after it didn’t work out with Chad joining her in Arizona. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Calm

[Tacenda]

I wish Melanie had told Tammy Daybell what Chad was doing behind her back and even warned her that Chad and Lori were crazy loons. Or crazy decrepit soulless scumbags. 

[Calm]

I think the video makes it clear that Lori told Melanie that she knew Charles was coming to kill her, she called Alex to come over and protect her, and Alex then killed Charles to prevent him from killing Lori...not because he was actually trying to kill Lori, but because Lori and Alex believed he was going to. 

Summer’s claim she called Alex to persuade him to go over may be a lie or maybe she did call Alex after seeing texts from Charles and Alex and Lori realized no better timing to stop the ‘killer’ while protecting themselves from the law.  Therefore in Lori’s mind she asked Alex to come over because the final decision was hers.

Lori can interpret anything into confirming what she wants. Kay saying ‘it’s not like I am going to kidnap JJ’ somehow means Kay is attempting to kidnap JJ.  Charles could have said to Lori ‘we can be civilized for the sake of our kids’ and Lori could have interpreted that as he was going to go all uncivilized and kill her. Most likely she needed him dead, had bern told by Chad over and over he was going to die, and Charles wanting to kill her justified any action she or Alex took. 

Charles walked into a death trap.

My question is if Chad told her Charles was planning on killing her, hoping it would lead to her turning to Alex to protect her since Chad had named Alex her protector iirc, making official a role Alex had previously assumed (assaulting Joe Ryan for abusing Tylee).  If it went wrong, he could safely assume Alex would be proud to claim full responsibility and Chad would still get his Lori and hopefully a nice payout as well. 
 

Tammy’s death may have been delayed because Chad didn’t have the guts to do it while on his own, but with Lori there pressuring him constantly about when his prophecy was going to be fulfilled and making him take stupid risks already (pretending in public she was Tammy), he probably found the nerve to act. 

[Calm]

42 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I wish Melanie had told Tammy Daybell what Chad was doing behind her back and even warned her that Chad and Lori were crazy loons. Or crazy decrepit soulless scumbags. 

I got the feeling Melanie was more of an observer of life without too many close friends given how quickly she bonded with Lori, but that may be introvert me tempering how quick I bonded when finding someone wanting to talk about what I was interested in). She was already invested in the PAP scene which collected a lot of speculators and she obviously enjoyed and was fascinated by these religious discussions (she expresses no interest in politics or sports, doesn’t watch the news and didn’t know what a burner phone was...sounds like she might isolate herself from the world in many ways) and so while Lori and Chad’s beliefs were “unusual”, she never outright rejected them until later...and possibly even then only the Multiple Mortal Probations theory and that because it leads to excuses for adultery and then coverups and murder. 
 

She never calls the ideas weird or immoral or violent. She is just bewildered rather than indignant, concerned rather than angry. Feeling embarrassed rather than pissed off for the sabotage of her life by people who lied to her and then expected her to take the bullet for them.  Maybe because she has had 5 months to process, but there is no memory of those feelings being expressed either explicitly or implicitly.
 

I wish she had told the Gilbert? Police that Lori knew Charles was going to kill her and so asked Alex to come over.  But perhaps she did and that made it appear more self defense even if they were prepared for it. 
 

Highly unlikely she told them Lori thought Charles was going to kill her because he was a zombie though. Or told them about the affair. 
 

That troubles me. I think she was more committed to the ideas then she now thinks. She describes herself as holding back from committing to the teachings as in she was only talking about the teachings with others, admiring Chad for being a visionary...she does eventually say you accept things from people with spiritual gifts’ and only afterwards conditions it to Chad maybe just making the claims. 
 

I think therefore she was likely obsessed in general with the ideas of personal visions and the end times and so even if she didn’t fully personally invest in the teachings, she was willing to believe they might be true and therefore act as if they were true. And I think she was of the mindset of keeping things hidden from others as a certain segment of the PAP/AVOW are encouraged to be.  She appears most baffled by the public displays of affection than the affair itself, nonchalantly talking about divorce. 
 

I hope there is something about whether or not she thought Charles was cheating because if she didn’t, I am thinking she was okay with lies being told others to justify immorality and/or violence (I am thinking she bought the previous lives so that what Chad and Lori were doing was just “unusual” and not immoral in her view then and she is making a big thing about it not just because Lori and Chad used it to justify their actions, but because she used it to justify her slilence) that, but when lies are told to her...then she gets the depravity. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Calm

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

I got the feeling Melanie was more of an observer of life without too many close friends given how quickly she bonded with Lori. She was already invested in the PAP scene which collected a lot of speculators and she obviously enjoyed and was fascinated by these religious discussions (she expresses no interest in politics or sports, doesn’t watch the news and didn’t know what a burner phone was...sounds like she might isolate herself from the world in many ways) and so while Lori and Chad’s beliefs were “unusual”, she never outright rejected them until later...and possibly even then only the Multiple Mortal Probations theory and that because it leads to excuses for adultery.
 

She never calls the ideas weird or immoral or violent. She is just bewildered rather than indignant, concerned rather than angry. Feeling embarrassed rather than pissed off for the sabotage of her life by people who lied to her and then expected her to take the bullet for them.  Maybe because she has had 5 months to process, but there is no memory of those feelings being expressed either explicitly or implicitly.
 

I wish she had told the Gilbert? Police that Lori knew Charles was going to kill her and so asked Alex to come over.  But perhaps she did and that made it appear more self defense even if they were prepared for it. 
 

Highly unlikely she told them Lori thought Charles was going to kill her because he was a zombie though. Or told them about the affair. 
 

That troubles me. I think she was more committed to the ideas than she now thinks. She describes herself as holding back from committing, she was only talking about the teachings, admiring Chad for being a visionary...she does eventually say you accept things from people with spiritual gifts’ and only afterwards conditions it to Chad maybe just making the claims. 
 

I think therefore she was likely obsessed in general with the ideas of personal visions and the end times and so even if she didn’t fully personally invest in the teachings, she was willing to believe they might be true and therefore act as if they were true. And I think she was of the mindset of keeping things hidden from others as a certain segment of the PAP/AVOW are encouraged to be.  She appears most baffled by the public displays of affection than the affair itself, nonchalantly talking about divorce. 
 

I hope there is something about whether or not she thought Charles was cheating because if she didn’t, I am thinking she was okay with lies being told others to justify immorality and/or violence (I am thinking she bought the previous lives so that what Chad and Lori were doing was just “unusual” and not immoral in her view then and she is making a big thing about it not just because Lori and Chad used it to justify their actions, but because she used it to justify her silence) that, but when lies are told to her...then she gets the depravity. 

Agree!

[Calm]

One more comment...Gibb seems very passive in the way she describes herself. It is Lori that initiates their relationship.  Lori has to pound on her to convince her she is one of the chosen 144,000.  She doesn’t have much interaction with Charles, they talk about his barbecue skills and he talks about his conversion, but she says nothing about sharing her comments with him. She says she is exchanging ideas, but she never tells where she is the speaker, only the listener.  There appears no expectation of Chad sharing one on one with her, she is fine with Lori being the messenger. She helps Lori think out what to do with zombie JJ, but never follows up by calling Kay to ask how he is doing. She has at most said hello to Kay.  She sounds like she is always sitting back, watching and listening and sometimes asking questions such as ‘why not get a divorce’ or ‘aren’t you afraid of people seeing you kissing’...but never giving opinions.  

And last when the police calls even though she is shocked that Chad asked her to lie, she only answers questions asked as in JJ is not with her and it isn’t until she talks it over with her boyfriend that she figured out she should volunteer information.  Introvert that I am in strange situations, I still gush when stressed and the police likely couldn’t get me to shut up, I would be repeating it over and over. 
 

There is a strange mix of quiet confidence and insecurity coming from her, very passive. Even this interview, she is very led by Eaton, doesn’t get sidetracked much in a very complicated narrative (though this could be editing) and only really speaks to her own agenda at the end.  This could be from trauma of the past year, she was teaching a RS class when they first met at church (evening church class means RS most likely), but it was very consistent. I didn’t feel there were hints of other more outgoing attributes from her. 
 

All that to perhaps provide an explanation of how she managed to watch this train wreck from the beginning and did nothing even after two people had died (though we haven’t heard the story of Tammy’s death yet) until her face was rubbed in it with the likely death of two children. Maybe even more important though was the attempt to make her an active participant. I wonder how she would have responded if they had phoned someone else and she just heard it on the news. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Calm

[smac97]

I'm not sure if this video has been posted in this thread.  It's a police "bodycam" recording of Charles Vallow speaking to the police outside his house in the evening about Lori Vallow.  The recording shows a date of January 31, 2019, around six months before he was shot and killed by Lori's brother, Alex Cox.

Some excerpts:

Quote

Police Officer: "What makes her a danger to herself and to others?"
Charles Vallow: "She's threatened me.  Murder me.  Kill me."
Police Officer: "She threatened to murder you?"
Charles Vallow: "Yes."
Police Officer: "How did she do that?"
Charles Vallow: "{Pointing} My bishop's right there in the car.  He was on the phone with me today when she said 'I will have you destroyed.'"
...
"She's lost her mind.  I don't know how to say it.  We're LDS.  She thinks she's a resurrected being, and a god, and a member of the 144,000..."
...
"Psychologically, she's gone.  Something's happened to her."
...
Police Officer: "She said she would murder you through a spiritual..."
Charles Vallow: "No, she said 'I can murder you.'"
Police Officer: "'I can murder you.'  And she's talking in a spiritual..."
Charles Vallow: "{She said} 'I will kill you.'  No, she's talking physically.  'I will kill you 'cause you're not Charles, and nobody will care.'"
Police Officer: "Okay.  So she at this point doesn't think you are her husband?"
Charles Vallow: "She thinks I'm Mick Schneider."
Police Officer: "Who's Mick Schneider?"
Charles Vallow: "I have no idea."
...
Charles Vallow: "She took my car and my keys.  I have no keys to get in.  The garage door opener.  She knows what she's doing.  She took $35,000 out of our bank account today.  I can't make payroll Friday.  {Garbled.}  It's just, she changed our bank account numbers.  I've had to change it myself to get back in, and I saw the money's gone.  I have seven bucks to my name."
...
Charles Vallow: "I love her to death.  This is killing me, officer.  Our 13th anniversary is next month.  We've had a great marriage.  All of the sudden, the last month it just blew up.  She's just lost connection."

Charles seems very credible here.  He is upset, but his demeanor is reasoned and articulate.

Very sad.  I hope the police are able to sort out what happened to him (and, I think, with Tylee and JJ).

Thanks,

-Smac

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by smac97

[katherine the great]

The third part of Melanie Gibb's interview with East Idaho news. Or: https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/05/part-3-melanie-gibb-discusses-mysterious-deaths-a-shooting-confronting-chad-and-lori-and-her-message-for-them-nowmelanie-gibb-part-3/ 

Parts are absolutely cringe-worthy when she goes into "testimony mode". It's really hard for me to understand why she goes on about how much Lori loves Chad. That isn't love. It's absolute obsession--almost the opposite of love. No mention at all of the possibility of mental illness or enormous egos--just a well-meaning, lovestruck, misguided couple led astray by false doctrine. I understand the reporter needed to give her time to make a personal statement to Chad and Lori in exchange for all of the insight she previously offered but I suspect, if she continues to open her eyes, she will someday wish she hadn't. She seems like a decent person and I'm sure this has all been very hard for her.

[alter idem]

13 hours ago, Calm said:

I got the feeling Melanie was more of an observer of life without too many close friends given how quickly she bonded with Lori, but that may be introvert me tempering how quick I bonded when finding someone wanting to talk about what I was interested in). She was already invested in the PAP scene which collected a lot of speculators and she obviously enjoyed and was fascinated by these religious discussions (she expresses no interest in politics or sports, doesn’t watch the news and didn’t know what a burner phone was...sounds like she might isolate herself from the world in many ways) and so while Lori and Chad’s beliefs were “unusual”, she never outright rejected them until later...and possibly even then only the Multiple Mortal Probations theory and that because it leads to excuses for adultery and then coverups and murder. 
 

She never calls the ideas weird or immoral or violent. She is just bewildered rather than indignant, concerned rather than angry. Feeling embarrassed rather than pissed off for the sabotage of her life by people who lied to her and then expected her to take the bullet for them.  Maybe because she has had 5 months to process, but there is no memory of those feelings being expressed either explicitly or implicitly.
 

I wish she had told the Gilbert? Police that Lori knew Charles was going to kill her and so asked Alex to come over.  But perhaps she did and that made it appear more self defense even if they were prepared for it. 
 

Highly unlikely she told them Lori thought Charles was going to kill her because he was a zombie though. Or told them about the affair. 
 

That troubles me. I think she was more committed to the ideas then she now thinks. She describes herself as holding back from committing to the teachings as in she was only talking about the teachings with others, admiring Chad for being a visionary...she does eventually say you accept things from people with spiritual gifts’ and only afterwards conditions it to Chad maybe just making the claims. 
 

I think therefore she was likely obsessed in general with the ideas of personal visions and the end times and so even if she didn’t fully personally invest in the teachings, she was willing to believe they might be true and therefore act as if they were true. And I think she was of the mindset of keeping things hidden from others as a certain segment of the PAP/AVOW are encouraged to be.  She appears most baffled by the public displays of affection than the affair itself, nonchalantly talking about divorce. 
 

I hope there is something about whether or not she thought Charles was cheating because if she didn’t, I am thinking she was okay with lies being told others to justify immorality and/or violence (I am thinking she bought the previous lives so that what Chad and Lori were doing was just “unusual” and not immoral in her view then and she is making a big thing about it not just because Lori and Chad used it to justify their actions, but because she used it to justify her slilence) that, but when lies are told to her...then she gets the depravity. 

I think this is true. I believe Melani accepted most of what she was told,  because she was already open to these kinds of things,  being involved with preparing a people. At pap conferences,  there is a lot of out of the mainstream beliefs and attitudes,  and the people who attend are very open to this and surely believe the presenters and participants are sincere. From listening to her, I think she was trusting of them until the fateful day they called and asked her to lie, the horrible feeling she had, that warned her something was very wrong, turned it all upside down.  Then she started to really think about it all, and the scales fell away. Imo.

I need to take a look at the zombie email again,  I think it talked about melani gibb. I wonder if the friend melani mentions talking to was the author of that email. I believe it was someone who had Melani's notes on chad a Lori's beliefs,  I think. 

[katherine the great]

13 hours ago, Calm said:

I got the feeling Melanie was more of an observer of life without too many close friends given how quickly she bonded with Lori, but that may be introvert me tempering how quick I bonded when finding someone wanting to talk about what I was interested in).

Very astute observation. She basically admits later that she was "seduced" (my word-not hers) by Lori's charisma--although she views it as  "love" while I see it as Lori's need for a minion following. I feel kind of sorry for Melanie because it was exciting stuff and now that "friend" and fun is gone out of her life.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, alter idem said:

Then she started to really think about it all, and the scales fell away. Imo.

Not quite all yet though though, imo.  I haven’t watched the last yet, but I don’t get the sense of her leaving the search for so-called deeper doctrine behind. 

[Calm]

From the article KTG links to:

Quote

Lori knew the scriptures well and reads them while she sits in a Madison County Jail cell. Chad video chats with her, and they discuss religious doctrines that Gibb  says do not represent teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Lori isn’t going to turn on Chad as long as they have this bonding time together. There is just something wrong that she is still getting her fix even in jail and Daybell gets to glow in her idolization.

Quote

“These doctrines are dangerous, and look what they lead to. They lead to people dying. If that doctrine was not revealed … then these people would not have died. … This has got to be such a painful thing for her to come to believe so that she realizes at some point she’s gone against what is true. That would be hard to take in – especially as much as she loves God,” Gibb says.

Her language is strange here, as if the doctrine Chad was teaching is actually from a revelation.  Does she ever say “false doctrines” or “false teachings”?  What is the truth that she has gone against?  The marriage covenant of the Daybells?  What part of the Gospel has Lori misunderstood?

That she even uses “doctrine” feels off for our greater culture, but maybe typical of the PAP group. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Calm

[Tacenda]

Listened to part 3..thoughts that come to me are, can an autopsy report show suffocation because I think that's how Chad killed Lori, or could suffocation have caused a blood clot in Alex, because I'm still suspicious of his death being natural. Also, I like what Melanie said about revelations being our own personal revelation, not someone else's and to beware of false doctrines because of the dangers. And last thing, I wonder how one can watch the podcast that she created, it would be something!

[Calm]

I wanted to check out how tight Melanie was with PAP and if she might still be involved with them or if she has put that behind her. 
 

Cane across the alleged email from Feb that is consistent with most details given in the interview and adds a few more. Has not been confirmed as accurate and has at least one detail wrong (John the Beloved rather than James the Just.) Wonder how much of the more extreme phrasing was the writer’s and how much actually from those involved.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/f0to1n/email_about_daybells_was_removed_from_the/

Edited May 28, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

Rather ironic that Melanie was teaching a class for Prepare A People on “Overcoming Self Deception”.

https://player.fm/series/preparing-a-people-podcast-network/ep-05-time-to-warrior-up-melanie-overcoming-self-deception

Quote

This is a special feature focusing on an amazing Class Melanie Gibb taught at a Family Camp this past summer 2018. Melanie shares a snippet of the experiences that changed her life from dark into day when she surrendered her will to the Savior's love, and gave up her perceptions, self-deceptions, and deceits to understand the world of love that heals all. Melanie will be sharing much more in the book she is writing about the process of becoming a "new creation" in the Lord. To contact Jason Mow, Melanie or Lori, email them at: timetowarriorup@gmail.com. To buy Jason's Books "A Hero Rises," and "Teancum: The Ghost Soldier 1 & 2" go to his website: www.TheWarChapters.com These Books are also available at Deseret Book & Amazon. For more free Educational & Inspiring Videos, visit us at: www.PreparingAPeople.com

Saw elsewhere Gibb described as the Arizona rep for Preparing a People. Didn’t see a date, so may be out of date. 
 

Read the article, but won’t watch video till later. We are told in the three segments very little about Melanie Gibb herself and her life outside her interactions with Lori. After reading the email and the synopsis of PAP podcasts with her and David Warwick (her boyfriend at least back in November who she stayed with and who convinced her to go to the police, who is apparently also a visionary of end times), I got to wonder just how deep she actually went into this. The email says Gibb had also recently divorced (another family destroyed by these divergent spiritual beliefs?) and then had a relationship with Warwick (nothing suggesting anything immoral, just both appear to be heavily involved in PAP). 
 

If PAP ever recovers (I suspect they will rebrand), I will be interested to see if Gibb or Warwick continue their association with the group or any other or if either have decided their involvement in end times speculation is unwise. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Listened to part 3..thoughts that come to me are, can an autopsy report show suffocation because I think that's how Chad killed Lori, or could suffocation have caused a blood clot in Alex, because I'm still suspicious of his death being natural. 

Suffocation leaves signs depending on how it was done...bruising around the mouth or broken hyoid bone for example. I believe there is typically bloodshot eyes, petechial hemorrhaging...always one of the first things checked in those crime shows.

https://www.encyclopedia.com/science/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/asphyxiation-signs

https://www.encyclopedia.com/science/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/petechial-hemorrhage

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8934706/

Haven’t seen any speculation blood clots can be caused by suffocation from medical experts talking on websleuths that I remember, so probably unlikely. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Calm

[ksfisher]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Listened to part 3..thoughts that come to me are, can an autopsy report show suffocation because I think that's how Chad killed Lori, or could suffocation have caused a blood clot in Alex, because I'm still suspicious of his death being natural.

"Throughout the investigation of a death by suffocation or smothering the pathologist will look for the tell tale signs: the bloodshot eyes, the high levels of carbon dioxide in the blood and will also look for bruising around the nose and mouth and may even collect trace evidence such as hairs and fibres from around the nose and mouth of the deceased."

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/suffocating-and-smothering.html