Update on Story Re: Missing Kids (Daybell)

[Calm]

Quote

Lori immediately walked up to Chad, and the conversation became personal. Gibb said he shared with her that they had met in a previous life and had been married multiple times before in prior existences.

I wonder if she had been writing him before this. If not, then I wonder how many other women he had done this with. 
 

Quote

She said it was OK they did this because they had been married so many times before, that their (current) spouses would understand someday.”

So not something Tammy knew about. 
 

Quote

Lori had experienced 21 lives, and Chad was on his 31st life, according to the chart. Both had lived five lives on this earth, and Chad was considered a Holy Ghost.

Chad made sure to set himself up as the one on the higher plane (many more lives AND a Holy Ghost).  At least in the beginning it sounds like Chad is the dominant one. 
 

I wonder if Lori suggested they divorce and marry...seeing she had done so 3 times already, it wouldn’t seem so disruptive to her. It was Chad whose life would be upended and others not be that understanding if he got divorced to marry another woman. Outside the already believing, his credibility would take a plunge. Not invited to many homes afterwards most likely, not as many looking at him as a pure conduit of spirit. And likely major loss of support from his family, especially his kids. 
 

Not to mention both would lose the stable source of income in their lives.  After so many lives, they deserved some financial comfort, right?

Edited May 27, 2020 by Calm

[Tacenda]

35 minutes ago, Calm said:

I wonder if she had been writing him before this. If not, then I wonder how many other women he had done this with. 
 

So not something Tammy knew about. 
 

Chad made sure to set himself up as the one on the higher plane (many more lives AND a Holy Ghost. At least in the beginning it sounds like Chad is the dominant one. 
 

I wonder if Lori suggested they divorce and marry...seeing she had done so 3 times already, it wouldn’t seem so disruptive to her. It was Chad whose life would be upended and others not be that understanding if he got divorced to marry another woman. Outside the already believing, his credibility would take a plunge. Not invited to many homes afterwards most likely, not as many looking at him as a pure conduit of spirit. And likely major loss of support from his family, especially his kids. 
 

Not to mention both would lose the stable source of income in their lives.  After so many lives, they deserved some financial comfort, right?

I don't get why people that want to end a marriage just don't divorce rather than kill their spouses, unless it's money motivated. They don't want to pay alimony, or ? And want life insurance. I think that may have been a motive for doofus chad.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I don't get why people that want to end a marriage just don't divorce rather than kill their spouses, unless it's money motivated. They don't want to pay alimony, or ? And want life insurance. I think that may have been a motive for doofus chad.

Status as well.  I doubt Chad wanted to be known as a man who didn’t make it intact through his midlife crisis and who ruined his family instead...which would be guaranteed imo if he stayed in Rexburg.
 

Probably not something that would bother Lori given married almost 30 years to first love isn’t a role she ever had, but that relationship with Tammy meant a lot to Chad if his writings are any indication, at the very least as a badge of honor in the family oriented church community.  Any Saint would see value in his family, only a limited few would see value in his status as a Holy Ghost  unofficially 'sealed' to a woman on her fifth marriage.
 

He wanted both, imo. The stable long term love and support he had from Tammy and the thrill of the secret ‘higher’ so called spiritual life/worship he got through Lori and any others so inclined. 
 

I wouldn’t be surprised if he convinced Lori that secrecy was better and even necessary to their work. Their marriages to their public spouses hid their own private relationship from their enemies might have been how he put it at first.  Or maybe he presented it as their spouses' true selves were fine with it and wanted to support them and only the spouses' weaker mortal selves would be troubled by it. That could be easily morphed into being taken over by a dark spirit or that their true self wanted to die to move on as well as leaving Lori and Chad now able to complete their work together openly.
 

If I can think up these twisted rationales, I am sure those two together could come up with many more. 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Calm

[alter idem]

56 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I don't get why people that want to end a marriage just don't divorce rather than kill their spouses, unless it's money motivated. They don't want to pay alimony, or ? And want life insurance. I think that may have been a motive for doofus chad.

It was interesting that Melanie Gibb suggested to Lori, why didn't they just get divorced?  But Lori said they received revelation they weren't supposed to.  She didn't say who's 'revelation' it was, either Chad or Lori's, but I'd bet it was Chad's.  Lori was old hat at divorce, she'd done it several times, but Chad had been married only once, for 29 years.  I could be wrong, but if I had to guess, I'd say it was Chad who didn't want to divorce and used his usual excuse that he'd gotten a 'revelation' to get his way (just as he did with Tammy when he wanted her to stop playing an online game and when he wanted to move them to Rexburg).   And, I agree, the life insurance is a good reason not to want to divorce, for both of them.

[Calm]

14 minutes ago, alter idem said:

And, I agree, the life insurance is a good reason not to want to divorce, for both of them.

I suspect thoughts about life insurance came later when it became clear things couldn’t continue as is and they would have to choose because at least Lori's marriage wasn’t going to continue.  Likely she didn’t want it to continue and just assumed Chad would go along...and then Chad was trapped, either because Lori would blow up and expose him if he stepped away from her or he was too caught up in his own fantasies to let her go to save his marriage. 
 

I don’t think Lori was as good at hiding things from her family as Chad. She was volatile and just talks incessantly when she talks (which may be why she chooses to say nothing now).  Chad is quieter it seems, less likely to say something in anger I bet.
 

Chad seems to be smart enough also to approach people one on one and maybe was better at reading who was receptive or maybe he just choose among those who can’t to him while Lori reaches out to her friend April who apparently wasn’t as into it as Lori was.

Melanie was apparently able to observe and hear them talk about their relationship in very personal ways, so I may be wrong. Or she just may have been trusted enough to share things with. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Calm

[alter idem]

34 minutes ago, Calm said:

Status as well.  I doubt Chad wanted to be known as a man who didn’t make it intact through his midlife crisis and who ruined his family instead...which would be guaranteed imo if he stayed in Rexburg.
 

Probably not something that would bother Lori given married almost 30 years to first love isn’t a role she ever had, but that relationship with Tammy meant a lot to Chad if his writings are any indication, at the very least as a badge of honor in the family oriented church community.  Any Saint would see value in his family, only a limited few would see value in his status as a Holy Ghost sealed to a woman on her fifth marriage.
 

He wanted both, imo. The stable long term love and support he had from Tammy and the thrill of the secret ‘higher’ so called spiritual life/worship he got through Lori and any others so inclined. 

Yep, I think Chad didn't want the stigma and the loss of reputation of breaking up his 29 year marriage and his family.  And, as you said, he had an image, through his books, writings etc. that he wanted to keep. To me, finding out that the two of them were involved to this extent (him telling her in Oct. that they were married in past lives and the fact that they considered divorce at one time) tell me that they contemplated it, but he likely discouraged it because of the damage to himself.  To me, this makes Tammy's untimely death even more suspicious, but I worry that having already embalmed her body, the autopsy could be inconclusive.  It's extremely hard to prove poisoning when the tissue if full of embalming fluid and the blood gone.  I wonder if any of his children or his parents will have the courage to watch this interview.  

[alter idem]

20 minutes ago, Calm said:

I suspect thoughts about life insurance came later when it became clear things couldn’t continue as is and they would have to choose because at least Lori's marriage wasn’t going to continue.  Likely she didn’t want it to continue and just assumed Chad would go along...and then Chad was trapped, either because Lori would blow up and expose him if he stepped away from her or he was too caught up in his own fantasies to let her go to save his marriage. 
 

I don’t think Lori was as good at hiding things from her family as Chad. She was volatile and just talks incessantly when she talks (which may be why she chooses to say nothing now).  Chad is quieter it seems, less likely to say something in anger I bet.
 

Chad seems to be smart enough also to approach people one on one and maybe was better at reading who was receptive or maybe he just choose among those who can’t to him while Lori reaches out to her friend April who apparently wasn’t as into it as Lori was.

Melanie was apparently able to observe and hear them talk about their relationship in very personal ways, so I may be wrong. Or she just may have been trusted enough to share things with. 

I think Lori confided a lot in Melani Gibb and I think she might know that the two eventually engaged in a sexual affair.   Chad and Lori believed that they were 'sealed' to each other in the temple by spirits from the other side. Lori had stopped attending church but attended the temple, apparently with a clear conscience about what they were doing. She stopped wearing garments.  Melanie alluded to them not being able worthy to enter the temple, because they wouldn't be able to answer the questions honestly. They had private phones that Chad and Lori used to call each other. They talked about divorcing their spouses.  Charles found the email of Lori dancing and he believed they were having an affair.  We saw in the storage unit security tape, Lori and Chad holding hands and later he slaps her rear.  Lori said Chad had created a 'portal' in her closet so that they could connect 'spiritually'.  I don't even want to say what I"m speculating about that, now that I know they had private phones....  Lori said, that if Chad was a Satan, he was a really good one.  I think Chad is a lot more culpable now, in being a very negative influence on Lori, than I originally assumed.  Charles, in that body cam video when he had to break into his house on Jan 31, 2019, told the police that she'd been having problems for 4 or 5 years, but that's they gotten so much worse the last few months--that's when Chad came into her life.

[Kenngo1969]

23 hours ago, Calm said:

... Then when reality came back to bite him full on ...

Where?

Sorry.  Couldn't resist!  Carry on!

Edited May 26, 2020 by Kenngo1969

[Calm]

I think Lori was likely unsettled for years, but when she met Chad she had something, someone to focus on and he had someone pushing him to push boundaries.  He provided the imagination and the will to dominate, she provided the need to shake things up and the excitement.  A vicious circle with each feeding the indulgent weaknesses in the other rather than supporting self control, etc.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Where?

Sorry.  Couldn't resist!  Carry on!

Oohhh...I can think of a few choice places.

[Kenngo1969]

I've only read the last couple pages of the thread most recently.  That said, I think this is recent enough that it wouldn't have been posted earlier than that in the thread:

https://www.deseret.com/u-s-world/2020/5/26/21270567/lori-vallow-daybell-joshua-jj-vallow-birthday-idaho-police-statement

It's ironic that the cops care more about your kids than you seem to ...  (Yes, I know she thinks they're zombies, or that evil spirits have taken them over, or that they're evil body-doubles, or whatever, but still ... )

[Calm]

Yeah, I just posted one of the birthday articles without comment because I am avoiding those in my attempt not to get too emotionally invested in this.  It is heartbreaking.

He is (hopefully) 8 years old.  What a different day than what was expected by his loved ones a year ago, I am guessing....even if the mess was massive already by that time.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Calm

[Robert F. Smith]

Chad will eventually have to make a deal with the prosecution.  He no doubt knows what happened to the kids, but is likely only an accessory after the fact.  Enough to bargain with.  He will rat our his wife.

[alter idem]

8 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Chad will eventually have to make a deal with the prosecution.  He no doubt knows what happened to the kids, but is likely only an accessory after the fact.  Enough to bargain with.  He will rat our his wife.

That's what I'm thinking too.  It's easier if one of them turns on the other to help the prosecution, for a lighter sentence.  And, I agree, he knows what happened to the children, whether he was actively involved or just knew what Lori did.  I don't know who will break first, and at this point, I'm wondering how much they actually believe that July 22nd is the second coming and when it comes and goes, will that change anything....maybe for Lori it might, if she realizes Chad is not anything he claimed to be, he can't get her out of jail and it becomes in her best interest to admit she's mentally unstable.  

[katherine the great]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Melanie was apparently able to observe and hear them talk about their relationship in very personal ways, so I may be wrong. Or she just may have been trusted enough to share things with.

The spouse's deaths make so much more sense to me after listening to this Melanie. She isn't particularly well spoken but her insight fills in a lot of gaps. The first time Lori and Chad actually meet, he tells her that she is his many-time wife and his chosen gathering companion. Wow! That would be very powerful to someone as emotionally needy as her. Charles seemed like such a good husband but maybe showed his love through providing rather than constant flattery. She needed ALL the attention. She even got mad at her first son for leaving her to get married. Narcissus had nothing on her! I still can't wrap my mind around the children though...

[Calm]

2 hours ago, alter idem said:

It was interesting that Melanie Gibb suggested to Lori, why didn't they just get divorced? 

I was rather shocked by that...but I guess I am old school concerning divorce as a negative, more extreme to be avoided if at all possible  experience (I wonder if it still rates next to death of a spouse in terms of life stressors).  I would have thought with Tammy at least, she would be saying Chad should be faithful to that family....and Lori had minor kids, but Melanie also was aware there was contention in that marriage and had been for sometime...notice btw even saying there was conflict she presents it as Charles trying to make Lori happy, boy him trying to get his own way or being demanding.

It suggests to me Lori and Chad's relationship was not only intense, but likely sexual or at least she suspected it to be.  (Someone else reported seeing them at a camp together and them acting like a couple so he was shocked to learn they were not married, but I am not sure the timing works out for that claim.)  If they were breaking covenants they had made with Charles and Tammy even if for good reason, it makes much more sense to dispense with the other marriages.  If they were faithful to their marriages, I would expect counseling to step back into more of a friendship, but I guess they were way past that from the instant they met the way she describes it.

[bluebell]

13 minutes ago, alter idem said:

That's what I'm thinking too.  It's easier if one of them turns on the other to help the prosecution, for a lighter sentence.  And, I agree, he knows what happened to the children, whether he was actively involved or just knew what Lori did.  I don't know who will break first, and at this point, I'm wondering how much they actually believe that July 22nd is the second coming and when it comes and goes, will that change anything....maybe for Lori it might, if she realizes Chad is not anything he claimed to be, he can't get her out of jail and it becomes in her best interest to admit she's mentally unstable.  

I agree with you.  I'm guessing this mess will be at a standstill until after July 22nd.  It's only at that point, when Christ doesn't come and she's not vindicated through supernatural means, that I think she'll crack and finally explain where the kids are.

[Calm]

15 minutes ago, alter idem said:

That's what I'm thinking too.  It's easier if one of them turns on the other to help the prosecution, for a lighter sentence.  And, I agree, he knows what happened to the children, whether he was actively involved or just knew what Lori did.  I don't know who will break first, and at this point, I'm wondering how much they actually believe that July 22nd is the second coming and when it comes and goes, will that change anything....maybe for Lori it might, if she realizes Chad is not anything he claimed to be, he can't get her out of jail and it becomes in her best interest to admit she's mentally unstable.  

From what I have read of her family (dad, sister Stacey who died), they aren't willing to back down, but then they were in more control of their lives and could always move.

Chad was, according to Gibb in a clip, probably terrified and he looks angry and fearful at times in videos, unlike Lori.  I think he is more connected with reality and how others can harm him.  Lori has been able to leave or find others to protect her from what I can tell, though I wouldn't ever describe her life as charmed.

[Calm]

Finally having a chance to watch the video, she talks about those who passed on and says Tammy and Charles and then JJ and Tylee. I am guessing she believes the kids are dead. This may come out tomorrow if not today explicitly. 
 

back to the vid, lot more info in the video than the article, so should watch...

Both the Coxes and she use "goal" rather than "purpose".  Does that sound natural to the rest of you?  Just curious, don't see it as significant.

I want to know what things Gibb was teaching in church classes ( where she met Lori, sounds like evening RS) given she was attending a number of these events and later made podcasts,  it concerns me.

Tammy and probably the kids did not come to the events.  Gibb didn't have a lot of interaction with Charles.

Sounds like Charles would try to please Lori and do things for her, but it never satisfies her.

Chad was more private and the Lori would share it with others.  Chad talked to both men and women, Gibb doesn't know if he told anyone else he was married to them in other lives.

Chad was 'told' he was not to get a divorce.

She uses the source of Chad's teachings as "the adversary".

Preparing the People were clueless, had no knowledge.  She was "sucked into it", she spent a lot time with Lori, every day at first and then later not so much (wondering if she means after the move)...Gibb rarely talked to Chad.

Gibb says Alex was unaware of Chad's teachings, etc. until later on. 

Chad and Lori, in some sense, saw themselves as leaders eventually but wasn't that organized at the beginning.

"Portal" was not a physical transportor as taught in Visions of Glory, but a place that allowed for a spiritual connection between Chad and Lori.

Zulema was a church member and her and Alex only got together towards the end (don't know when that means).

Edited May 27, 2020 by Calm

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I've only read the last couple pages of the thread most recently.  That said, I think this is recent enough that it wouldn't have been posted earlier than that in the thread:

https://www.deseret.com/u-s-world/2020/5/26/21270567/lori-vallow-daybell-joshua-jj-vallow-birthday-idaho-police-statement

It's ironic that the cops care more about your kids than you seem to ...  (Yes, I know she thinks they're zombies, or that evil spirits have taken them over, or that they're evil body-doubles, or whatever, but still ... )

Like someone said at that birthday celebration (I believe it was there), there is a way to prove the children are alive without exposing where they're at. This leads me to believe they are in heaven. Why don't lori and chad just give prove that they are alive, if they are.

It's been said that Lori is probably the most hated woman out there. I wonder how she is treated in jail? I guess when/if she goes to prison it may get bad, unless they protect her. I believe that everyone deserves to be proven guilty, but the proof is in the pudding in this case because there is no reason they can't somehow figure out a way to prove they're alive.  

Edited May 27, 2020 by Tacenda

[Robert F. Smith]

6 hours ago, katherine the great said:

The spouse's deaths make so much more sense to me after listening to this Melanie. She isn't particularly well spoken but her insight fills in a lot of gaps. The first time Lori and Chad actually meet, he tells her that she is his many-time wife and his chosen gathering companion. Wow! That would be very powerful to someone as emotionally needy as her. Charles seemed like such a good husband but maybe showed his love through providing rather than constant flattery. She needed ALL the attention. She even got mad at her first son for leaving her to get married. Narcissus had nothing on her! I still can't wrap my mind around the children though...

Yeh, Lori even won $17,000 on Wheel of Fortune in 2004.  That may have made her feel special.

[Calm]

And she ran for Mrs. Texas in 2004.  Joseph Ryan files for divorce in August 2004.  One of these days I need to see if the contest took place in the middle of the divorce.

Added:  Nope..that was likely in spring unless they changed it.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

Lori is too comfortable with all the lies. The kids are gone. I just don’t see any other possibility. 
 

Quote

After Lori told Gibb in September that JJ was a zombie, the two decided it would be best to have him stay with his grandmother in Louisiana.

According to Gibb, Lori said, “He’s in the way of our mission, so we need to send him to Kay’s house.” 

“We talked about Kay, and we talked about some of her family members that could actually take him on. … We talked about what that conversation would be like with Kay, and she wasn’t sure if Kay would really receive him. … That was the plan that I knew of – he’s going to Kay’s house. … That’s what I believed was going to happen, so I left thinking that’s where he was going … Kay’s for sure,” Gibb said. “I didn’t doubt that.”

Gibb returned home to Arizona and spoke with Lori a few times. Lori told her about meeting Kay at the airport and leaving JJ with her. Gibb didn’t think anything of it until two days before Thanksgiving. She was in Utah for the holiday, and Chad called her out of the blue. She says he sounded scared and nervous.

“I still get emotional about it. He said, ‘Melanie, It’s Chad. When the police call, don’t pick up the phone,” Gibb recalls. “My heart just dropped. I was so confused. … He said, ‘Yeah, the police are at Lori’s house checking on JJ.’ I’m like, ‘JJ’s not with Kay?’ (Chad replied), ‘No.’ My heart dropped deeper, and I just knew something was wrong, but I didn’t know. I didn’t understand.”

Gibb wasn’t sure what was going on and hung up the phone. Lori then called and sounded upbeat, cheerful and unworried.

“She said, ‘Kay is trying to kidnap him,’ and I said, ‘How do you know that?’ ‘Well, through the emails.’ I said, ‘I have not read your emails. What did they say?'”

Lori replied that the emails from Kay said, “It’s not like I’m going to kidnap JJ or anything.”

“She led me to believe that everything was fine and that she was protecting JJ … and not just Kay, but it felt like many people were after him,” she recalls. 

Gibb says the emails did not sound like a threat, but Lori insisted everything was fine. She then allegedly told Gibb to lie to detectives.

“She asked me to tell the police that JJ was with me. I was going to drive to Arizona for Thanksgiving, and he was going to go with me,” Gibb says. “She had made it sound like we had arranged it or something … she was going to come down there later and pick him up. It was a foreign idea. … I can’t even tell you how uncomfortable (it was).”

Then, a more bizarre request.

“She said, ‘I told the police that you were at ‘Frozen 2’ with JJ.” Gibb said. “(Lori said), ‘Get your cell phone out and take a picture of random kids running around to make it look like you (have) him with you.'”

Gibb refused to do what her friend asked and says she had a gut feeling that “something was terribly wrong.” It would not go away, and that’s when she decided she needed to talk to the police.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/05/part-2-melanie-gibb-describes-zombies-jjs-disappearance-and-the-fatal-attraction-between-chad-and-lori-daybell/

[Calm]

Be sure and watch the video. 
 

Gibb never comes out and say “kill”, neither does the interviewer. They just said  “passed” over and over.  I wonder if the lawyers or LE told them not to say kill or murder or whether Gibb just can’t handle thinking of their deaths in that way. 

It is hard for me to get where she is in terms of belief. I think from comments she said yesterday she might have a habit to never challenge others’ beliefs, either out of respect or a desire to be open to truth whatever the source. But she does say the teaching of Multiple Mortal Probations is from Satan and because it was taught and believed, people are dead and Lori will now need to admit she is responsible that her family is dead, though she doesn’t quite say it that way. 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

Borrowing a post from Websleuths that summarizes much of the important new stuff:

Quote

• Lori was collecting around $6,000 a month from survivor benefits for Colby [Calm:  don’t think Colby was included as he was not a minor] and Tylee from Joe's death and from disability benefits for JJ;

• Lori sold the claim of herself bring threatened by CV by telling MG there was a $3 million policy on her life and the dark spirit that inhabited CV’s body (“Ned Snyder” or “Ned Schneider,” someone they once knew…?) was after that money;

• Lori did not want to move to Rexburg. She wanted Chad to come to Arizona, but told MG that was not what revelation told her to do;

• MG did not see Tylee while she visited in Rexburg and did not find the claim that Tylee was attending BYU believable;

• MG did see JJ during that visit, but Lori told MG that JJ had become a zombie and was pointing out things he was doing or saying as indicators. MG found this claim unbelievable as JJ didn’t seem different than he’d been in her presence in the past. Lori told MG that JJ would be going to live with Kay so “he would not get in the way of her and Chad’s mission.” Lori also said Kay was a zombie; 

• MG had lots of doubts about Chad’s and Lori’s strange revelations, some of which she expressed to Lori. Alex told MG he truly believed the teachings about zombies inhabited by dark spirits;

• Chad and Lori told MG they would be traveling to California with Chad’s children for Thanksgiving and that Tylee and JJ would not be with them. (MY NOTE: And what of Tammy?); [Calm:  Tammy died in October, so I believe this was from a phone call after her death] 

• MG was caught entirely by surprise and was troubled by Chad’s call (in all his nervousness) a few days before Thanksgiving asking her not to answer the call when police called asking about JJ because MG had been led to believe JJ was going to live with Kay;

• Lori instructed MG to take photos with kids around to look like MG was at movies with JJ (as Lori had told police MG was). MG said Lori was upbeat in that call, told her everything was fine. MG was dumbfounded by the request;

• MG chose to tell the police the truth rather than participate in advancing Chad and Lori’s lie; and

• MG urges others who may have heard Chad’s revelations to reflect upon whether so much darkness and death is consistent with what they know from the Gospel - that in Christ’s time on earth, he didn’t kill, but rather healed those who suffered and brought light and clarity rather than darkness, secrecy, and confusion.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/id-joshua-vallow-7-tylee-ryan-17-rexburg-sept-2019-mom-arrested-34.524243/page-18#post-16103412

Edited May 27, 2020 by Calm