Update on Story Re: Missing Kids (Daybell)

[alter idem]

59 minutes ago, Calm said:

Mother and sister of Lori Vallow:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/missing-idaho-kids-lori-vallow-son/#app
 

Haven’t watched it yet, but read the mother, Janis Cox, says she talked to JJ on Oct 1 (last seen Sept 23) and she had the receipts to prove it. 
 

This is the same day and possibly time when Vallow visited the storage unit on her own to rent it. (I got confused about dates). It make create a conflict with the phone call if one assumes she would need to be present when JJ used the phone (I need to find out if phone was hers).
 

That is not a good sign imo given she was months in Hawaii living her life with no kids in sight.  It seems unlikely she would shift to massive interaction to no interaction or apparent caring about their care (buying things for them) unless she felt there was no longer any need for her to do so. 
 

Added:  from websleuths, looks like the phone is Vallow’s as it was used in the ad intending to sell JJ’s service dog, Bailey.

Just watched this.  Interesting that the Mother and sister say they have no idea where the children are and this is because Lori can't tell them because she's in jail. But, she wasn't in jail for what?  some three months, when she moved to Hawaii with Chad and her children were just gone and the police were trying to find out where they were.  Lori was free in Hawaii, and they could have asked her then.  Why didn't they?  

They also insisted that Lori never expressed resentment of her children.  But she did.  If they were to read the police statement Lori gave the morning Charles was killed, Lori expressed resentment about the burden of caring for JJ and said that was why she left him with Charles when she went off to Hawaii a few months before--so Charles could see how hard it was to take care of JJ.  She was complaining that Charles did not help with JJ and it was left on her to do everything for him. 

[alter idem]

10 minutes ago, Calm said:

I don’t remember hearing Alex was a zombie, but certainly possible. 

I believe it was in  the email that surfaced months ago (I think it was read on 'left undone, incomplete investigatons' in about the #4 installment and the transcript was on reddit) that mentioned that the kids and alex were 'zombies'.  I think Charle's was called a zombie in that same email or in another document.  But I'd have to do some searching to be sure.

[Calm]

Watched the interview. Not sure what they said amounted to more than a few minutes. Only ‘hard’ question was why hasn’t Vallow told them where the kids were and their answer was because she was in jail and everything was recorded.  
 

So what about all that time from October 1 to February when she was arrested?  Why not ask Chad?  Or her lawyer could convey reassurances....though I wouldn’t be surprised if they believe their phones are wiretapped, so they aren’t talking about it. However that still leaves October and November where there was no LE action going on save perhaps in Arizona with Charles’ shooting. 

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, alter idem said:

I believe it was in  the email that surfaced months ago (I think it was read on 'left undone, incomplete investigatons' in about the #4 installment and the transcript was on reddit) that mentioned that the kids and alex were 'zombies'.  I think Charle's was called a zombie in that same email or in another document.  But I'd have to do some searching to be sure.

No big deal. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, alter idem said:

Just watched this.  Interesting that the Mother and sister say they have no idea where the children are and this is because Lori can't tell them because she's in jail. But, she wasn't in jail for what?  some three months, when she moved to Hawaii with Chad and her children were just gone and the police were trying to find out where they were.  Lori was free in Hawaii, and they could have asked her then.  Why didn't they?  

They also insisted that Lori never expressed resentment of her children.  But she did.  If they were to read the police statement Lori gave the morning Charles was killed, Lori expressed resentment about the burden of caring for JJ and said that was why she left him with Charles when she went off to Hawaii a few months before--so Charles could see how hard it was to take care of JJ.  She was complaining that Charles did not help with JJ and it was left on her to do everything for him. 

There is no sense of actual curiosity in them or in Melani imo when they respond to this question. It is always “great question” and a light emotional reaction as to any  actual concern, imo. There is no expression of concern for the kids and how lonely they must be for family, etc. It is all just justifying Vallow’s decision to not give out the info. 
 

And no sense of heavy emotion when talking about the media calling for a hanging of Vallow (which is an overstatement of media though I have seen some comments by anonymous posters in various places suggesting something similar, but it reads better to say media than social media for explaining why she isn’t saying anything).  Just some indignation at most. 
 

At the very least their son/brother/uncle is dead and their daughter/sister/aunt may go to prison for a significant time even if not tried or found innocent of murder (SS fraud at the very least).  Plus she is in jail for a good longtime just while the process continues. Where is the worry or frustration or pain this is happening to their family?  Where is the reaching out and giving of support to each other that you see the Woodcocks doing all the time. Where are the “we love you, Tylee and JJ” just in case they are watching it since they have no other way to communicate with these children they say they are certain are alive.

Just not seeing it. 

Wonder if we will see any difference in the next interview. Nothing they said helps Vallow’s case and they just come off as pretty callous or clueless, not really interested.  I wonder if they will learn from their mistakes or just won’t care, thinking they are doing fine. 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

This says no question was off limits, so this was just a preview apparently (got some vertigo going on and it makes it hard to concentrate so I likely missed that...alter, do you remember?)

More detail is given below and likely more in the interview iirc this Friday.

https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing_coverage/missing_idaho_kids/lori-vallows-family-says-she-would-not-hurt-children/article_a674e292-8fbc-11ea-94ff-17505b83fb04.html

Quote

Reporter: "When is the last time you communicated with Tylee?"

Summer Shiflet: "August, before they moved is the last time I saw her. And I texted with her a couple of times. But the last time I texted with her was September 24 on her birthday. She responded and said, 'Thank you Summy. Love you. Happy birthday to you too.'"

Reporter: "And that date is significant because the FBI says that she has not been seen since the beginning of September. Do you believe that that was Tylee who was texting you back?"

Summer Shiflet: "I don’t really have any way to know. I'd like to believe that it is, but I really don’t have any way to know. It could be either way. But as far as I know it was her. I don’t have any reason to think otherwise."

So did Summer just not tell the FBI about the text and if not, why not, or did she tell and they not believe her, so they didn't include it?

Edited May 7, 2020 by Calm

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

Watched the interview. Not sure what they said amounted to more than a few minutes. Only ‘hard’ question was why hasn’t Vallow told them where the kids were and their answer was because she was in jail and everything was recorded.  
 

So what about all that time from October 1 to February when she was arrested?  Why not ask Chad?  Or her lawyer could convey reassurances....though I wouldn’t be surprised if they believe their phones are wiretapped, so they aren’t talking about it. However that still leaves October and November where there was no LE action going on save perhaps in Arizona with Charles’ shooting. 

Exactly what I was thinking!!!

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Exactly what I was thinking!!!

Let us hope lots more comes out in the next interviews since 'no question was barred'.  I doubt it though.

[Calm]

According to a websleuths post, the second (AZ one) video clip of the interview has the family explaining Vallow was receiving threats which is why she moved to Idaho and out the kids into hiding....that does not explain why she then runs off to Hawaii and acts like nothing is happening.  Why didn't she go into hiding with them.  For JJ especially, such long term separation from one of the three people constant in his life, the other parent dead and his sibling still a minor....that would be especially traumatic.

But I am missing it in the clip if it actually says that.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Calm

[alter idem]

12 hours ago, Calm said:

This says no question was off limits, so this was just a preview apparently (got some vertigo going on and it makes it hard to concentrate so I likely missed that...alter, do you remember?)

More detail is given below and likely more in the interview iirc this Friday.

https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing_coverage/missing_idaho_kids/lori-vallows-family-says-she-would-not-hurt-children/article_a674e292-8fbc-11ea-94ff-17505b83fb04.html

So did Summer just not tell the FBI about the text and if not, why not, or did she tell and they not believe her, so they didn't include it?

I guess it was just part of it, but this brings more questions.  They're claiming the FBI was off by a month? Then why didn't they come forward and tell them? It's been months of complete silence. If Summer got a text on sept 24, she could have told the police.  Also a text could be from anyone who had the phone. Lori had Tylee's phone when they found her in Hawaii and a friend got a text in October  but said it wasn't written the way Tylee texted. From these 2 interviews I get the feeling the Cox family wasn't close with Lori and her children. IMO

[Calm]

For some reason, the clip is being clipped for many. I was only able to watch the whole 4ish minutes using the link here:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/id-joshua-vallow-7-tylee-ryan-17-rexburg-sept-2019-mom-arrested-31.517083/page-99#post-16055915

This is where the comment about threats was made. Interviews with the majority of the Coxes as well as interviews with those who they are claiming made threats are to be viewed tonight and tomorrow night. 

[Calm]

The full video for tonight below.  Another tomorrow.  I don't think they did the two women any favors by how they edited those clips.  They removed the context that made them more human in the full video, you could see pain and concern,

 I would like to see if Summer showed or saved the texts Charles sent her as she claims he made threats.  I would think they were either on Charles' phone or hers and if she was worried enough to tell Alex to go over to Lori's as she claims because of them, then she would have intelligently saved them.  That would explain why the police first judged it as self defense.  It does not explain a lot else that went on though.

My opinion is they aren't willing to defend Daybell, so they will likely blame him for anything problematic as they are blaming the Vallows (I think they are taking Lori's explanations of interactions as truth), but they are certain he couldn't brainwash her so I hope they get asked about the wedding dress shopping.  Both Lori and Alex weren't telling them anything or even talking to them it seems before she went to jail as the mom had to tell a mutual friend in Hawaii to pass a message to her.  If it turns out Lori was involved in anything criminal, they helped the prosecution by insisting he she would never crack under pressure from Daybell.

Paranoia on both Lori and Alex's part, fanned by Chad could explain why they saw Charles' family trying to find answers and asking to see JJ as threats.  The emails Kay shared in another video are just her asking what they could do, not threatening imo.  Frustration is showing through at the end, but nothing I saw was a threat.

 

[Calm]

Reaction from the Vallow grandparents including four of Kay's emails she sent to Lori after Charles' death:

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

Old article, but since the Coxes are giving their side, I thought more of the Vallows' POVs might be appreciated.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/02/charles-vallows-son-speaks-out-about-his-dad-his-missing-siblings-and-why-he-was-pissed-off-seeing-lori-daybell/

FYI, the recent Dateline episode apparently has Colby Ryan describing his relationship with his mom and unlike how his Cox grandparents describe it, it was reported he said his mother acted more friend than parent when younger.  That episode should be available this week or next if similar to the first one.  The Vallow sons also described her as taking off and leaving the kids on their own most days.  I know Melani, the niece, was a nanny for awhile and I believe there were others.  

Why I doubt the “hiding them because she loves them” theory...

There is the first established fact that she took off for a month leaving JJ with Charles, complained about how hard it was to take care of him, and wanted Charles to get a taste of it (from a police interview).  

The second established fact is she attempted to sell his service dog and then allowed it to be taken away. That dog was a huge part of the quality of JJ’s life and selling it makes no sense given it was highly trained and wouldn’t be disruptive in the move, imo. Costs of its upkeep would be minimal in comparison to aiding care of JJ.  But the time it took to care for it, groom and exercise it or at least supervise JJ doing those things might have seemed substantial to Vallow, especially if they were moving and she worried about finding a place that would allow it....not sure about rules for renters with service animals (I wonder how she thought she would control JJ’s moods without the dog, the babysitter’s experience in Idaho gives the possibility she might use drugs to make him sleepy, more likely she just gave the job to Tylee).

Third, there is camera evidence she let JJ play outside unsupervised, unwise with a child with his abilities and temperament.  Neighbours complained to Vallow about him.  Are they lying about that and about her calling JJ not her son, but her drugbaby nephew (no need to explain why a nephew isn’t around like a missing son)? 

Charles might have lied about her taking JJ’s medicine, iPad, and the service dog collar, but it makes sense if she was trying to make it harder for Charles to care for JJ to prove her point it was difficult to care for JJ and therefore she deserved more help or whatever she wanted (if that was truly the point of her leaving).  That is, imo, the only reason that comes close to making sense for doing those things.  Iow, if this last is true, she didn’t care about making her son miserable for an extended period of time just to get her own way. 

Even the first two facts alone call into question the descriptions given by her family of her being a devoted mother who would do anything for her kids.  Since Charles traveled a lot with his work, if she was actually the primary caregiver (though there have been hints that it was more Tylee and that might have been why she was homeschooled, to be there to care for JJ), she may have had a valid point she should have been getting more help from him, but you don’t use your kids as pawns when in conflict with your spouse if you care about them.  And you don’t disown them to the neighbours with disdain.

On websleuths someone has claimed that a child or spouse still has claims on life insurance in AZ even if a different beneficiary is named.  The idea is Vallow is hiding JJ so the grandparents can’t claim she is an unfit mother and take him out of her care so she loses all ability to claim a major part of the million.  And Tylee is volunteering to hide to care for JJ.  I can see where Charles’ attempt to get her mentally evaluated and possibly committed in early 2019 might have put that idea in her mind, but who hides their kids for half a year or more because they don’t want to lose them?  Unless the plan was to put JJ into permanent hiding until he was an adult, eventually when he became available she would have had to confront the custody claims if she really believed the Vallows were that threatening.  However, everything she has done makes her look more unfit, not less.  There is no logical reason imo in the custody case to fear harm for JJ, so hiding him isn’t about keeping him safe, but only under her control...which isn’t love.  (Assuming the Coxes’ claims are accurate, which unfortunately I doubt even if they appear to believe them.)

For the Coxes’ beliefs for be true, there would have to be an extended conspiracy by family and neighbours in AZ and neighbours at least in Idaho.  It gets too improbable.  Their insistence that she is a practically perfect mom is too easily disproven and therefore makes the rest of their claims less credible. They would have done better if they admitted she had issues, but then approached it as lines she wouldn’t cross (physically harming her children).

 

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Calm

[Tacenda]

On 5/6/2020 at 5:12 PM, Calm said:

There is no sense of actual curiosity in them or in Melani imo when they respond to this question. It is always “great question” and a light emotional reaction as to any  actual concern, imo. There is no expression of concern for the kids and how lonely they must be for family, etc. It is all just justifying Vallow’s decision to not give out the info. 
 

And no sense of heavy emotion when talking about the media calling for a hanging of Vallow (which is an overstatement of media though I have seen some comments by anonymous posters in various places suggesting something similar, but it reads better to say media than social media for explaining why she isn’t saying anything).  Just some indignation at most. 
 

At the very least their son/brother/uncle is dead and their daughter/sister/aunt may go to prison for a significant time even if not tried or found innocent of murder (SS fraud at the very least).  Plus she is in jail for a good longtime just while the process continues. Where is the worry or frustration or pain this is happening to their family?  Where is the reaching out and giving of support to each other that you see the Woodcocks doing all the time. Where are the “we love you, Tylee and JJ” just in case they are watching it since they have no other way to communicate with these children they say they are certain are alive.

Just not seeing it. 

Wonder if we will see any difference in the next interview. Nothing they said helps Vallow’s case and they just come off as pretty callous or clueless, not really interested.  I wonder if they will learn from their mistakes or just won’t care, thinking they are doing fine. 

IMO, they are the zombies! Or in some kind of trance, mainly Melani during last Friday's Dateline. Is there another interview on the horizon?

Edited May 8, 2020 by Tacenda

[Calm]

Tonight there is another segment of the interview with the Cox family, other members. 

[Calm]

From a transcript of part of the interview...

Janis Cox:  

Quote

And I know that Lori has always protected them. If everyone knew how far she had gone to protect them, their whole lives,

That is a weird phrasing, not "how much she had done", but "how far she had gone"....hints at extreme behaviour.  I am wondering if she is referring to the custody battle with Ryan, moving to Hawaii so as to avoid parental visits, and the possible request of Alex to attack her ex-husband....or something else or maybe just poor phrasing.  I so wish Loew had asked for examples.

Quote

She did have some major fears, that were real, to her. She didn’t share them all with me.

Again a weird phrasing, "major fears, that were real, [sic, there shouldn't be a comma to make sense] to her".  Hints that Janis thinks her daughter may have been paranoid.

Quote

She doesn’t blame other people, she takes responsibility for herself.

That is not how the police interviews sound like.

Quote

His mother had been drug, drug mother, he was born addicted to drugs, and he only weighed 1 lb 9 oz. They didn’t know of course then that he was autistic. But she was dedicated to him from the moment he came home.

They didn't get custody until he was 9 months old iirc.  He was living with Kay and Larry for those 9 months.  I can see being affectionate, but dedicated?  If she meant when adopted, she is phrasing it such it appears Lori is the one who struggled those early months to help him survive.  

I wonder how old he was when he left the hospital.

Quote

Before she accused Charles of cheating he never said one bad word about Lori ever. Not once.

So it is not his cheating that triggered his accusations of her, but Lori's own behaviour in her accusation of his cheating....during the same time that she is sending an email of her dancing to Daybell and he is sending her emails about how they were married and had kids together in past lives, including JJ and niece Melani, but not Tylee (looks like he really didn't want her in his life).  Janis or Summer said the only thing Lori and Charles argued about was Tylee, I am thinking Daybell knew that among other things (like Lori taking her along on trips) and saw that relationship as interfering with his own with Vallow.

Charles claims, iirc, that he has no clue about a dating site profile, which was probably Lori's evidence he was cheating.  Anyone could have set that up as far as I am aware.  I wonder if they can track the original IP.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/id-joshua-vallow-7-tylee-ryan-17-rexburg-sept-2019-mom-arrested-32.520745/page-2#post-16057731

Summer:

Quote

I spent a lot of time with Lori and Alex um leading up to Charles’ death and I know that there was never any kind of discussion like that about it.

And yet her sister never invited her to her weddings and apparently had no contact with her from before her wedding until she was arrested because Summer uses the excuse Vallow is in jail for why she isn't asking her where the children are.  Vallow kept things from her when she wanted to.  Alex never told his family he got married. He wasn't sharing everything either.

Alex lived nearby, how long does it take to decide someone needs to die and talk about options.  Even if Summer suggested him coming over that day, they could have decided that would be a good opportunity and changed plans...which last minute changes would explain some of the significant differences in their stories of what happened (mainly when the shooting occur) if one stuck more to the script for a different scenario while the other was saying what actually happened.

Quote

 I feel like Kay could have handled this uh a lot of different ways, and she could have gone and filed in court for JJ she could have done things a lot of ways. She did this very strategically and deliberately um this is somebody who’s hurting and in pain because she’s lost her brother and I understand that but this is a revenge situation, this is not a, um, this is something that could have been settled much quieter and calmly, and it didn’t have to get to this level. Lori is the legal parent of both Tylee and JJ. She has a right to live wherever she wants to live and raise them and not include anybody in their lives that she doesn’t feel is good for them, that’s her right as a parent. She should not be forced to do any of the things that she’s been asked to do. That’s not, it’s not okay.

There is no evidence that Kay did anything until she asked for a welfare check in November.  Where is the strategy?  It is not like Lori would have been unfamiliar with custody battles as she went through ten years with Ryan in one.

If threats were made, why not go to police?  She went to police to report her purse was stolen by her husband, seemed comfortable with them on that occasion and after the shooting.

Quote

[Charles] Took JJ.

After Lori took off...there was no comment made about her doing that.  I wonder if they even knew at the time.  I wonder if Charles contacted one of them to find out where Lori had gone and that was how they found out.  

Edited May 8, 2020 by Calm

[bsjkki]

https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/uncle-of-missing-idaho-kids-died-of-natural-causes-autopsy-report-says

Autopsy report for Alex Cox released. He died of natural causes but also had Narcan in his system.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/05/read-the-medical-examiner-and-toxicology-reports-on-alex-cox/

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by bsjkki

[Calm]

Interviewer:

Quote

I’ve spoken to people who live near Chad and they say ‘we follow Chad’. They look at Chad like he is some sort of messiah.

I don't like the sound of that.  Makes him sound more of a leader than I assumed given his lack of charisma in anything I have seen him in (he either looks like someone eager to please, disoriented, or cowed).

[Calm]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/uncle-of-missing-idaho-kids-died-of-natural-causes-autopsy-report-says

Autopsy report for Alex Cox released. He died of natural causes but also had Narcan in his system.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/05/read-the-medical-examiner-and-toxicology-reports-on-alex-cox/

 

The Narcan was probably administered by the EMTs because they thought he might be ODing.  Though you can get it if you are around narcotics as a safety measure.  Utah was giving them out free a few years ago.  Don't know if that program has continued.  I am reading it is standard in that there are few reasons not to give it, as it won't cause other problems and a huge benefit if an overdose.

 That was really bad timing for Lori if purely natural.  I wonder if he heard about the exhumation and that stressed him enough to trigger a heart or asthma attack.  But sounds like random blood clot affecting him for the previous week.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

12 hours ago, Calm said:

On websleuths someone has claimed that a child or spouse still has claims on life insurance in AZ even if a different beneficiary is named.

Someone else who actually lives in AZ has corrected this claim.  Arizona apparently allows people to name who they want, no permission of spouse is needed.

Looked into it further.  Appears the answer is "it depends".

https://www.insure.com/life-insurance/spouse-right-to-life-insurance-money.html

Kay Woodcock has said nothing about this when asked about possible issues.  She has said Vallow can have all the money if she just says where the children are.  There is no evidence that Vallow has an attorney working on this.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Calm

[alter idem]

15 hours ago, Calm said:

The full video for tonight below.  Another tomorrow.  I don't think they did the two women any favors by how they edited those clips.  They removed the context that made them more human in the full video, you could see pain and concern,

 I would like to see if Summer showed or saved the texts Charles sent her as she claims he made threats.  I would think they were either on Charles' phone or hers and if she was worried enough to tell Alex to go over to Lori's as she claims because of them, then she would have intelligently saved them.  That would explain why the police first judged it as self defense.  It does not explain a lot else that went on though.

My opinion is they aren't willing to defend Daybell, so they will likely blame him for anything problematic as they are blaming the Vallows (I think they are taking Lori's explanations of interactions as truth), but they are certain he couldn't brainwash her so I hope they get asked about the wedding dress shopping.  Both Lori and Alex weren't telling them anything or even talking to them it seems before she went to jail as the mom had to tell a mutual friend in Hawaii to pass a message to her.  If it turns out Lori was involved in anything criminal, they helped the prosecution by insisting he she would never crack under pressure from Daybell.

Paranoia on both Lori and Alex's part, fanned by Chad could explain why they saw Charles' family trying to find answers and asking to see JJ as threats.  The emails Kay shared in another video are just her asking what they could do, not threatening imo.  Frustration is showing through at the end, but nothing I saw was a threat.

 

It is not surprising that her mother and sister are defending her absolutely and I agree, if possible they'll want to blame Chad for the things Lori has done.  I really want to hear their explanation for why Lori bought her wedding rings a couple of weeks before Chad was even free, Tammy was still alive!  And her shopping for wedding dresses around the same time.  Pretty hard to explain away those things.  I believe I read on Websleuths (it's been a couple of months ago) that friends said to the Cox family,  Lori could do no wrong, she was the darling.  I think that explains some of what I have read about her personality.  So, to me, their completely believing anything she claims is consistent with that.

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, alter idem said:

Lori could do no wrong, she was the darling.

That would explain the mother's reaction when the sister emphasized she had never been invited to any of Lori's weddings and why she followed it with a 'no big deal' that sounded more habitual to me than thought about.  I wonder if she is used to playing second fiddle and having her concerns pushed aside in favor of her sister's.

Janis also comes across as minimizing Lori's bad judgment calls ( a few husbands they didn't like as opposed to marrying a pedophile as they belive Ryan to have been) while Summer says it as "a lot of bad  mistakes".

Edited May 8, 2020 by Calm

[alter idem]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

The Narcan was probably administered by the EMTs because they thought he might be ODing.  Though you can get it if you are around narcotics as a safety measure.  Utah was giving them out free a few years ago.  Don't know if that program has continued.

That was really bad timing for Lori if purely natural.  I wonder if he heard about the exhumation and that stressed him enough to trigger a heart or asthma attack.  But sounds like random blood clot.

To put 'natural causes' as the reason for the death of a man as young as he was, seems wrong, if he was in good health.  This seems like they should be able to say what happened.  Did he die of a blood clot?  Did he die of a heart attack. Or just admit,  'we don't know why he died'.   Imo, it's not natural for a healthy young man to just die. Maybe i'm expecting too much.

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, alter idem said:

To put 'natural causes' as the reason for the death of a man as young as he was, seems wrong, if he was in good health.  This seems like they should be able to say what happened.  Did he die of a blood clot?  Did he die of a heart attack. Or just admit,  'we don't know why he died'.   Imo, it's not natural for a healthy young man to just die. Maybe i'm expecting too much.

He was 51, I thought he was younger than Lori, but he was older.

He also appeared to have high blood pressure, untreated.  Some artery buildup as well, though I am not reading in depth to see how bad it was if that is mentioned.

A websleuther mentioned it was not uncommon for long haul truckers to have issues with blood clots, which makes sense.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Calm