Update on Story Re: Missing Kids (Daybell)

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

For sure he told her before 2007 because it was the impetus for Alex Cox to attack Joseph Ryan with a stun gun.

Right.  

There is nothing straightforward about this case.

Added:  if Colby had testified in the custody case and the court still found for Ryan, it would explain to a great extent Vallow's distrust of the family court system.  If Charles Vallow hadn't been shot and Tammy Daybell hadn't died, I could see it as almost reasonable to hide her kids if she was afraid of something rather than appealing to LE to help.  However, I can't get past her out there on the Hawaiian beaches while her kids are supposedly in danger and needing to be protected.  Why wouldn't she go into hiding with them rather than starting a new life without them?

I really hope this goes to trial or the police are allowed to release all the info they have got, including perhaps the custody case over Tylee.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Calm

[katherine the great]

11 hours ago, Calm said:

 However, I can't get past her out there on the Hawaiian beaches while her kids are supposedly in danger and needing to be protected.  Why wouldn't she go into hiding with them rather than starting a new life without them?

 

She’s a sociopath. 

[Calm]

3 hours ago, katherine the great said:

She’s a sociopath. 

Possibly, but the way many describe her before is very contradictory. 
 

Do you think there is a possibility that she is hiding them? A possibility higher than just theoretically possible. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Calm

[katherine the great]

39 minutes ago, Calm said:

Possibly, but the way many describe her before is very contradictory. 
 

Do you think there is a possibility that she is hiding them? A possibility higher than just theoretically possible. 

Anything is possible. (at least that's what Cinderella's godmother said) I would be thrilled if that turns out to be the case. Unfortunately, the evidence points elsewhere. 😔

[Maureen]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

...Do you think there is a possibility that she is hiding them? A possibility higher than just theoretically possible. 

In the Dateline episode last night it mentioned that her new "End of the World" beliefs say that people can become "zombies" and they must be killed. Some people that were interviewed said that Lori believed certain people were "zombies" including her own children. I would not be surprised if it was discovered that she killed her children.

M.

[Calm]

46 minutes ago, Maureen said:

In the Dateline episode last night it mentioned that her new "End of the World" beliefs say that people can become "zombies" and they must be killed. Some people that were interviewed said that Lori believed certain people were "zombies" including her own children. I would not be surprised if it was discovered that she killed her children.

M.

Yes, the idea is a dark spirit possesses their bodies and their own spirits are in limbo and can't move on to the next life until their bodies die.  So it is a blessing to the original soul for a zombie to be killed.

 It is extremely concerning to me that Daybell felt confident enough to label Tylee someone who had covenanted with the dark back in October 2018 and that she was willing to continue the relationship with someone who described her child that way.  It most likely means she saw Tylee (not sure if considered possessed at this time or simply evil) in the same way, as someone evil, almost as high a dark rating as her exhuband Ryan who she had accused of physically and sexually abusing her children (I believe the physical abuse has been confirmed by the sister of Ryan, though she says the accusation of sexual abuse was considered inconclusive by the police as Ryan passed a lie detector test, etc...but this is from a report of someone else and not reading her comments myself).  Even Charles, her husband, was rated Light....and he ended up accused of being a zombie and most peobably murdered.

Having a view of someone being willingmy aligned with wickedness...Not a big step from there to seeing it a righteous act to kill someone.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Calm

[Tacenda]

The way they were acting in Hawaii, like a happy newlywed couple, I wonder if it's all an act. Like they made it up that people are zombies and need to die. Just to be able to get the life insurance and get rid of the kids that got in their way. Or not. It's all a puzzle. Or maybe they were living it up before the period of having to use their prepper skills. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

The way they were acting in Hawaii, like a happy newlywed couple, I wonder if it's all an act. Like they made it up that people are zombies and need to die. Just to be able to get the life insurance and get rid of the kids that got in their way. Or not. It's all a puzzle. Or maybe they were living it up before the period of having to use their prepper skills. 

If made up for others, why is Chad sending Lori a “family history”?  Seems unlikely she would share this with others as it was insulting to Alex, giving him a 2. (though some have suggested that would be a way to motivate him to act).  She might have shared it with people she was podcasting with...but the high dark number for Tylee suggests to me it was meant only for Lori. I think it was Chad’s way of alienating her from her daughter, feeding her frustrations with an apparently stubborn teenager.   I think he wanted to be alone with her rather than have Tylee tagging along as apparently she was when her mom went to the conferences ( some have reported seeing her at a camp) and in Hawaii.
 

I would be surprised if Melanie Gibb was so converted that she would be willing to see Tylee as evil, though perhaps it was JJ that was the line for her and why she refused to lie to police for them.  Her niece, Melani...it might have been used to persuade her, I suppose.  
 

I may be projecting from my impressions of Rowe, but I see Daybell and Vallow as wanting to believe their fantasies as it makes them so important. Convincing others is cream after convincing themselves. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Calm

[katherine the great]

57 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

The way they were acting in Hawaii, like a happy newlywed couple, I wonder if it's all an act. Like they made it up that people are zombies and need to die. Just to be able to get the life insurance and get rid of the kids that got in their way. Or not. It's all a puzzle. Or maybe they were living it up before the period of having to use their prepper skills. 

The picture the spirits are giving me (nod to Lori Rowe) is: Chad was already full of self importance and specialness-maybe a little mental illness in the background- and ripe for a mid-life crisis when he met this little blonde Arizona bombshell who fed his ego with flattery. From that point on, the spouses were doomed as was anyone who got in the way of this unholy union. A whole new spin on breaking bad.

[Calm]

There has been reports by family and friends he was giving out spiritual advice even in high school.  That is a long slow burn for seeing oneself as with a mission to lead others and never getting more than an Executive Secretary calling as far as I have seen.  Semipopular author, but never taken seriously that I remember hearing (in my twoish years of working at a bookstore).  AVOW probably felt like coming home to him and from then on, I am guessing his claims took off as his needs for drama and attention just went up as they were fed.

Julie Rowe's success beyond the usual crowd may have broken any restraint, especially if they were having constant conversations feeding each other's ego....and likely trying to one up each other given Rowe's condemnation of his claiming Davidic leadership even when she was sort of still supporting him (she had claimed the same for herself, but that wasn't apparently mentioned in the interview she had).

Edited May 3, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

On 4/29/2020 at 9:27 AM, Tacenda said:

I've noticed that most of this nuttiness is coming from, and promoted by people my age. (60ish)

Just looked at a site that had their ages...Vallow is 45 and Daybell 51, so not just a 'disease' that hits 60ish people.  I think Rowe is likely in her 40s and Sosa maybe younger.

[smac97]

I'm not sure if this part of the story has been covered, so I thought I'd post it here:

Quote

Email: Lori Daybell asked Chad Daybell to judge missing kids' 'light or dark spirits'
by McKenzie Stauffer | Wednesday, May 6th 2020

As Lori and Chad Daybell are under investigation for the deaths of their previous spouses, newly released emails are shedding light on their "doomsday" religious beliefs.

A year before her children went missing, Lori asked Chad to gauge 17-year-old Tylee Ryan and 7-year-old Joshua "JJ" Vallow's "light or dark spirits."

On Oct. 20, 2018, Chad, an author who captivated Lori with his writing on religious doomsday scenarios, responded in an email.

"Here are the family history documents you requested," Chad wrote in the email obtained by Fox10 Phoenix.

The belief, reportedly upheld by Chad, is that people are reborn, or graduate, to the next level when they die. The documents says most members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are level two, and that the dark side can only match the light, not exceed it.

"2's and 3's are fluid and can change sides during earth life," Chad wrote. "4.1 and above have made covenants to their side. They rarely switch sides."

 

Ryan was listed on the chart as a 4.1D. Her father, Joseph Ryan who previously died, was listed as a 4.3D and "is now sealed away," according to the chart.

Lori, meanwhile, was classified as being on the light side.

Vallow was a 4.2L and his adoptive father, Charles Vallow, scored a 3L.

Wow.  This is some unusual stuff.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited May 6, 2020 by smac97

[katherine the great]

Very unusual. While hundreds of the lightest spirits are male, only six are female. Yeah right. 🙄

Edited May 6, 2020 by katherine the great

[alter idem]

I find Chad's designation to Lori that her daughter Tylee, was a 4.1 Dark, very frightening, in light of her going missing one year later.  When you consider their beliefs that dark spirits can be taken over and they lose possession of their bodies, and there's nothing that can be done to save them unless their body dies (their spirit is then set free) is ominous.  I used to think that Chad was likely not involved in  the disappearance of Lori's children.  Not anymore. Since more information has come to light, I think he's just as involved in what happened to those two children, he knows where they are and IMO, he should be sitting in jail with her, until they tell what they did with them.  

[Calm]

The brother’s (Alex Cox) autopsy should be done and released this week. No news on the wife’s, Tammy Daybell. 

[Calm]

Mother and sister of Lori Vallow:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/missing-idaho-kids-lori-vallow-son/#app
 

Haven’t watched it yet, but read the mother, Janis Cox, says she talked to JJ on Oct 1 (last seen Sept 23) and she had the receipts to prove it. 
 

This is the same day and possibly time when Vallow visited the storage unit on her own to rent it. (I got confused about dates). It make create a conflict with the phone call if one assumes she would need to be present when JJ used the phone (I need to find out if phone was hers).
 

Quote

She's invested her whole life in those children," Cox told CBS News' Jonathan Vigliotti. "So we know there's another whole side to this. We don't know what it is. But we know her."

That is not a good sign imo given she was months in Hawaii living her life with no kids in sight.  It seems unlikely she would shift to massive interaction to no interaction or apparent caring about their care (buying things for them) unless she felt there was no longer any need for her to do so. 
 

Added:  from websleuths, looks like the phone is Vallow’s as it was used in the ad intending to sell JJ’s service dog, Bailey.

Added:  looks like the call was made an hour or an hour and a half after her visit to the storage facility.  So enough time to get back home or some place else in the vicinity where JJ was staying. Question I have is who was taking care of JJ at this time while Mom was running errands.  I assume the answer would be Tylee. But prior to this call, neighbours were told JJ was at Grandma’s, so they weren’t likely still at the townhouse. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Calm

[stemelbow]

Geez, at least Jesus taught half of believers will be saved with his parable of the 10 virgins.  The other half Jesus doesn't know. 

Are all light spirits spirits saved?  I wonder.  

[Calm]

Someone on websleuths made the observation there had been no signs of grief from his family (sisters, niece, mother, wife) for Alex Cox’s death. I haven’t watched all the interviews yet, but if they aren’t getting emotional at all, having difficulty discussing his death (I have seen no mention of it in the dissections of all their behaviour on camera), that is very strange. 

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Are all light spirits spirits saved?  I wonder.  

Being a light spirit of high level appears no guarantee one can’t end up possessed, a zombie as JJ was a 4.1 iirc Light.  It can’t be just because of his age or accountability as those 4 and over are said to have made covenants.  

Edited May 6, 2020 by Calm

[stemelbow]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

Being a light spirit of high level appears no guarantee one can’t end up possessed, a zombie as JJ was a 4.1 iirc Light.  It can’t be just because of his age or accountability as those 4 and over are said to have made covenants.  

I cant follow this stuf--it is too nutty to keep straight.  Where does it say JJ was a 4.1?  

[alter idem]

45 minutes ago, Calm said:

Mother and sister of Lori Vallow:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/missing-idaho-kids-lori-vallow-son/#app
 

Haven’t watched it yet, but read the mother, Janis Cox, says she talked to JJ on Oct 1 (last seen Sept 23) and she had the receipts to prove it. 
 

This is the same day and possibly time when Vallow visited the storage unit on her own to rent it. (I got confused about dates). It make create a conflict with the phone call if one assumes she would need to be present when JJ used the phone (I need to find out if phone was hers).
 

That is not a good sign imo given she was months in Hawaii living her life with no kids in sight.  It seems unlikely she would shift to massive interaction to no interaction or apparent caring about their care (buying things for them) unless she felt there was no longer any need for her to do so. 
 

Added:  from websleuths, looks like the phone is Vallow’s as it was used in the ad intending to sell JJ’s service dog, Bailey.

Wow.  It sure took Lori's Mother a long time to speak up.  I was beginning to wonder if any of her family would ever talk.

[alter idem]

32 minutes ago, Calm said:

Being a light spirit of high level appears no guarantee one can’t end up possessed, a zombie as JJ was a 4.1 iirc Light.  It can’t be just because of his age or accountability as those 4 and over are said to have made covenants.  

Also, Charles was rated as a light spirit back in Oct 2018 by Chad, but then later Lori said he was a zombie and  I think Alex, who was a light 2 in  the 'family history', was later claimed to be said by Lori  to be a zombie.  I think I'm remembering that right.

[alter idem]

26 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I cant follow this stuf--it is too nutty to keep straight.  Where does it say JJ was a 4.1?  

He was listed as a 4.2 light on that 'family history' email that Calm posted earlier, it's on page 14.  His name is 'Joshua' Vallow

[Calm]

29 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I cant follow this stuf--it is too nutty to keep straight.  Where does it say JJ was a 4.1?  

I listed the “family history” stuff a few days ago, so a page or two back. 

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, alter idem said:

Also, Charles was rated as a light spirit back in Oct 2018 by Chad, but then later Lori said he was a zombie and  I think Alex, who was a light 2 in  the 'family history', was later claimed to be said by Lori  to be a zombie.  I think I'm remembering that right.

I don’t remember hearing Alex was a zombie, but certainly possible.