Update on Story Re: Missing Kids (Daybell)

[Calm]

1 hour ago, strappinglad said:

Bail reduced to 1 million with monitoring and conditions. IMO she would be much safer in custody. 

I can see a legal issue of unreasonable bail since no murder charges yet and it could go on a long time before judged guilty or innocent.  Lawsuits are likely if she gets acquited for any reason I am guessing.

I agree she would be, but if she truly believes what has been shared, she sees herself as invulnerable.

[Tacenda]

I'll bet this Corona virus is making the Daybell's believe even more that the world is coming to an end in July. The way Lori is smiling and carrying on acting as if nothing is wrong, makes me think that she believes the world will come to an end, and her and those that are special will be taken up.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Tacenda

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I'll bet this Corona virus is making the Daybell's believe even more that the world is coming to an end in July. The way Lori is smiling and carrying on acting as if nothing is wrong, makes me think that she believes the world will come to an end, and her and those that are special will be taken up.

I have been thinking the same thing.

Besides the time the prosecutor was listing all the reasons her bail shouldn't be dropped and when she was paying attention to her own lawyer, she looked like she was rather excited in a little kid way about it all.  She was more or less grinning it seemed to me walking in and out of court and then she was fidgeting until something actually required her attention.

Daybell, otoh, first had on his semiblank, I am being good just sitting here face (he could have been sitting in a church pew) and then when the bail was set at $1,000,000 got a look that was 'what do I do now' and kept it till he left.

I thought it was sweet how the families of the victims, including her adult son, Colby, were all sitting together.  It appears that Larry and Kay Vallow have assumed a parent/grandparent relationship and the younger ones were protective of them while they were drawing them in as family.  Very hard to think Lori Vallow's alleged stories about that family have any truth to them.

[Calm]

According to Julie Rowe, so caution as she may be making it up as she goes along...

Chad Daybell believes he was James the Just in a previous life....you know, brother of that guy, Jesus...nobody special.  Good to see such humility in someone so gifted.    Lori Vallow was his wife, so obviously meant to be together now.

Julie thinks he wasn't making it up though, it was decieving spirits telling him this.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Calm

[bluebell]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

Julie thinks he wasn't making it up though, it was decieving spirits telling him this.

Maybe Julie should contemplate that idea a little more deeply. 

[Kenngo1969]

16 hours ago, Calm said:

According to Julie Rowe, so caution as she may be making it up as she goes along...

Chad Daybell believes he was James the Just in a previous life....you know, brother of that guy, Jesus...nobody special.  Good to see such humility in someone so gifted.    Lori Vallow was his wife, so obviously meant to be together now.

Julie thinks he wasn't making it up though, it was decieving spirits telling him this.

 

9 hours ago, bluebell said:

Maybe Julie should contemplate that idea a little more deeply. 

Some old saying is tugging at the far recesses of my memory ... Let's see ... what is that saying again?  Something about people not throwing hard objects when they, themselves, live in fragile abodes?  Oh, yes!  I remember now!  People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!

[Calm]

Rowe has her destiny, so she probably tells herself she doesn’t care what people think. She was just trying to help out by sending info on her vision of Daybell being innocent and the kids in a safe, bright place back in December; she wasn’t upset they were ignoring her for her own sake. She got her wish for whatever reason she was saying “look at me”. Media is hungry for info on the secret group Daybell and Vallow belong to and she was the only one blabbing.  It is her calling and all. 

Back to her destiny.....She is going to be assassinated by an inside group and then unknown to the world, she will be brought back to life and then help lead the conquest of the earth/gathering by the righteous and become one of the several who are then part of the Davidic kingship...or such was the word a year or so ago (shortly after her excommunication iirc).  Course she may have meant that all symbolically. 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Calm

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Rowe has her destiny, so she probably tells herself she doesn’t care what people think. She was just trying to help out by sending info on her vision of Daybell being innocent and the kids in a safe, bright place back in December; she wasn’t upset they were ignoring her for her own sake. She got her wish for whatever reason she was saying “look at me”. Media is hungry for info on the secret group Daybell and Vallow belong to and she was the only one blabbing.  It is her calling and all. 

Back to her destiny.....She is going to be assassinated by an inside group and then unknown to the world, she will be brought back to life and then help lead the conquest of the earth/gathering by the righteous and become one of the several who are then part of the Davidic kingship...or such was the word a year or so ago (shortly after her excommunication iirc).  Course she may have meant that all symbolically. 

While they all sit in jail! 

[Tacenda]

On 3/6/2020 at 11:43 PM, Calm said:

I have been thinking the same thing.

Besides the time the prosecutor was listing all the reasons her bail shouldn't be dropped and when she was paying attention to her own lawyer, she looked like she was rather excited in a little kid way about it all.  She was more or less grinning it seemed to me walking in and out of court and then she was fidgeting until something actually required her attention.

Daybell, otoh, first had on his semiblank, I am being good just sitting here face (he could have been sitting in a church pew) and then when the bail was set at $1,000,000 got a look that was 'what do I do now' and kept it till he left.

I thought it was sweet how the families of the victims, including her adult son, Colby, were all sitting together.  It appears that Larry and Kay Vallow have assumed a parent/grandparent relationship and the younger ones were protective of them while they were drawing them in as family.  Very hard to think Lori Vallow's alleged stories about that family have any truth to them.

I'll have to research to see who it was, but it wasn't Colby sitting by them. I first thought the same thing, but remembered this interview with Colby and them not really looking all that alike. 

 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

have to research to see who it was, but it wasn't Colby sitting by them.

Colby was in the group with them as well as his wife behind on the second pew, but the person sitting right next to Kay Woodcock was Brandon B (can’t remember how to spell his last name), the exhusband of Vallow’s niece, Melani (not to be confused with the friend, Melanie Gibb).

[katherine the great]

On 3/6/2020 at 11:43 PM, Calm said:

 She was more or less grinning it seemed to me walking in and out of court and then she was fidgeting until something actually required her attention

Maybe it’s just me but I wanted to reach through the TV and slap her smirky little face.  I’ll repent later. 

[Calm]

Just now, katherine the great said:

Maybe it’s just me but I wanted to reach through the TV and slap her smirky little face.  I’ll repent later. 

Not just you.  Some have said a lot worse.

Hopefully they have another room for the trial so she gets taken out a side door like in Hawaii and doesn't get to parade in front of the family.

[smac97]

On 3/6/2020 at 11:43 PM, Calm said:

Besides the time the prosecutor was listing all the reasons her bail shouldn't be dropped and when she was paying attention to her own lawyer, she looked like she was rather excited in a little kid way about it all.  She was more or less grinning it seemed to me walking in and out of court and then she was fidgeting until something actually required her attention.

Let's not be in too much of a rush to read a lot into her in-court behavior.  People are often very nervous.  They have seen tons of legal procedurals on TV (Law & Order, Perry Mason, etc.), but they don't know how to behave.  They may have been told to "look confident" by their attorney, or by a friend.  

The tension can be thick, particularly where the proceeding is highly adversarial, where substantial wrongdoing is alleged or suspected, where opponents are in close physical proximity to each other, etc.  I have personally had a number of instances where I have had to wait inside the courtroom while the other party leaves or drives away.  I've had sheriff's deputies accompany me to my car a few times, just in case.  I even had a guy confront me in the hallway outside the courtroom, looking for all the world like he wanted to get into a physical fight.  And these are in in civil disputes.  

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

I am just describing the appearance, not what caused it.  It is rubbing people the wrong way.  If the kids are hidden and they bring them out later, I doubt people will consider their choice in a positive light and more likely assume publicity stunt or extortion gone wrong.  I think that is highly unlikely though  

Her behaviour imo was very different this time around than the first two hearings.  I think she likely didn’t know what to do with herself, but the smile on the way in and out as she was walking in front of the family for whatever reason she looks that way makes her look heartless. 
 

Her attorneys will need to work with her if they don’t want to alienate a jury. 

Edited March 9, 2020 by Calm

[Tacenda]

24 minutes ago, Calm said:

I am just describing the appearance, not what caused it.  It is rubbing people the wrong way.  If the kids are hidden and they bring them out later, I doubt people will consider their choice in a positive light and more likely assume publicity stunt or extortion gone wrong.  I think that is highly unlikely though  

Her behaviour imo was very different this time around than the first two hearings.  I think she likely didn’t know what to do with herself, but the smile on the way in and out as she was walking in front of the family for whatever reason she looks that way makes her look heartless. 
 

Her attorneys will need to work with her if they don’t want to alienate a jury. 

To me, she is in another dimension somewhere, she might be insane in fact. Her behavior isn't normal at all. So is Chad Daybell, in another dimension, IMO. 

[smac97]

10 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

To me, she is in another dimension somewhere, she might be insane in fact. Her behavior isn't normal at all. So is Chad Daybell, in another dimension, IMO. 

I won't speculate about her mental faculties.  However, two scriptures come to mind:

Romans 10:

Quote

1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Jacob 4:14:

Quote

Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark, they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may stumble.

Also, Elder Ballard's October 2017 General Conference talk, which included the following counsel (emphasis added) :

 

Quote

We must be careful where our footsteps in life take us. We must be watchful and heed the counsel of Jesus to His disciples as He answered these questions: “Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

 

“And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man [and I add woman] deceive you.”9

 

Today I repeat earlier counsel from Church leaders.

• Brothers and sisters, keep the doctrine of Christ pure and never be deceived by those who tamper with the doctrine. The gospel of the Father and the Son was restored through Joseph Smith, the prophet for this last dispensation.
• Do not listen to those who have not been ordained and/or set apart to their Church calling and are not acknowledged by common consent of the members of the Church.10
• Be aware of organizations, groups, or individuals claiming secret answers to doctrinal questions that they say today’s apostles and prophets do not have or understand.
• Do not listen to those who entice you with get-rich schemes. Our members have lost far too much money, so be careful.

In some places, too many of our people are looking beyond the mark and seeking secret knowledge in expensive and questionable practices to provide healing and support.

 

An official Church statement, issued one year ago, states: “We urge Church members to be cautious about participating in any group that promises—in exchange for money—miraculous healings or that claims to have special methods for accessing healing power outside of properly ordained priesthood holders.”11

 

The Church Handbook counsels: “Members should not use medical or health practices that are ethically or legally questionable. Local leaders should advise members who have health problems to consult with competent professional practitioners who are licensed in the countries where they practice.”12

 

Brothers and sisters, be wise and aware that such practices may be emotionally appealing but may ultimately prove to be spiritually and physically harmful.

___________

9. Matthew 24:3–4.

10. See Doctrine and Covenants 26:2; 28:13; 43:6–7.

11. Church spokesman Eric Hawkins, Sept. 2016.

12. Handbook 2, 21.3.6.

People who quietly and consistently seek guidance from God from A) the scriptures, B) prophets and apostles (and, to a lesser extent, local leaders), and C) personal revelation (study, ponder, pray, etc.) will usually end up avoiding the dangers described above.  If my perspective on any one of these three resources is at odds with the others, then I tend to walk carefully.

Thanks,

 

-Smac

Edited March 9, 2020 by smac97

[Calm]

Since nothing is currently happening (two bail bondmens have said they refused to cover her, though didn't explain if because they view her as too much of a risk...which they should imo...or if they have issues with her being out while refusing to say anything about the children), I am wandering into old news and thought some might find this interesting if they are trying to figure out how all this happened (my advice is give up  human behaviour is excessively complex even when functional):

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/02/charles-vallows-ex-wife-became-concerned-for-lori-daybells-mental-health-over-10-years-ago-and-thinks-his-shooting-death-was-100-planned/?fbclid=IwAR21BElpF1yIA-aaV6vhDWh7v4lj8M3eidTVeVRwvMZPuZVv7aqegA1ZdE0

It is the past occurrences connected with custody cases that is most concerning to me (Lori Vallow making it difficult and running away or making accusations when things don't go her way) along with the reports that she wasn't as directly involved in the child care as one would expect (live in nannies and this report and some others that she takes off constantly).  Custody battles are not good for the children.  Her children seem to have been treated more like possessions than individuals at times.  Whatever the causes, her current behaviour towards both the court and her children doesn't seem to have appeared out of nowhere.

 

[Calm]

Multiple states and the FBI are apparently meeting for Wednesday and Thursday in Salt Lake:

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-southeast-valley/gilbert/gilbert-and-chandler-detectives-to-meet-with-fbi-about-investigations-related-to-lori-vallow-daybell

[Calm]

https://www.deseret.com/u-s-world/2020/3/10/21173308/lori-vallow-case-tammy-daybell-alex-cox-chad-daybell-theory

Not very detailed:

Quote

Sources now tell CBS News “there is digital evidence that links Alex Cox to Tammy Daybell’s death. Her autopsy results are still pending.”

Also:

Quote

PHOENIX (3TV/CBS 5) - Phoenix police say the FBI reached out to them about a month ago in regards to another death involved in the Lori Vallow saga.

Lori's third husband, Joseph Ryan, died in 2018 from an apparent heart attack. His body was cremated. Phoenix police say they provided information to the FBI, but so far, the FBI has not asked them to do any further investigation.

Lori and Ryan divorced in 2004. Court paperwork from 2011 outlined a contentious custody battle over their daughter, Tylee Ryan. Joseph claimed Lori would not let him see his daughter, despite their custody agreement.

After one visit with Tylee, Lori's brother Alex Cox attacked Joseph with a stun gun and threatened to kill him. Cox was convicted of that crime.

A family member related to JJ and Tylee says that after Joseph's death, Lori told them she received his life insurance policy and planned to share it with Tylee. That family member also said Lori stated Joseph was "evil" and "God took care of him."

https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing_coverage/missing_idaho_kids/police-confirm-fbi-is-looking-into-lori-vallow-s-third/article_379b6a08-6348-11ea-bb63-771d6d243c80.html

I think they are turning up the pressure with intentional leaks...

Edited March 11, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

Passing time...

 

Quote

“He has not been yet, but I’m sure he will be,” Rowe said. “Chad and Lori think that they are a part of the Davidic Presidency. Chad thinks he’s a Davidic President or Davidic Servant that’s going to help translate people and start the Church of the Firstborn and all this stuff, and that is an absolute deception. That’s a lie.” 

This might be amusing in other circumstances given Rowe has talked about how she is one of the Presidency last time I checked her out, the fourth hidden member, The Witness.****

https://www.fox13now.com/news/fox-13-investigates/fox-13-investigates-website-associated-with-chad-daybell-and-his-followers-shuts-down

****http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/68830-hello-new-member-here/?do=findComment&comment=1209798801

 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Calm

[bluebell]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Passing time...

 

This is might be amusing in other circumstances given Rowe has talked about how she is one of the Presidency last time I checked her out, the fourth hidden member, The Witness.****

https://www.fox13now.com/news/fox-13-investigates/fox-13-investigates-website-associated-with-chad-daybell-and-his-followers-shuts-down

****http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/68830-hello-new-member-here/?do=findComment&comment=1209798801

 

It's interesting how many people sit in prison believing that any day God is going to show up and vindicate them.  It just goes to show how easy it is for satan to take something good (like scriptural instances of that happening), twist it, and use it to cause harm and destroy lives. 

[Calm]

Quote

Colby Ryan told me he did get a chance to speak w/ his mother Lori Vallow over the weekend as she remains in jail. He said he pleaded w/ her to do the right thing and it was an emotional conversation. It ended w/ Vallow telling her son she loved him. #wherearethekids

This has got to be doing such a number on this young man, a relatively new parent himself.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jlumfox10

 

[Calm]

https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing_coverage/missing_idaho_kids/cult-member-describes-daybell-vallow-religious-views/article_6e3863ec-634b-11ea-a4b1-2b2bf3dc8637.html

Quote

That is the name of a media organization, which held events and hosted podcasts, which, at times, featured Daybell and Vallow. But in an email exchange, the owner of the organization's parent company stated that there is no connection between Preparing a People and any cult or occult activity.

"Life is sacred to us. We are innocent of any involvement in Chad or Lori’s personal lives (and never knew Lori or any family members). Our relationship was mostly business, both owning our own separate businesses. We have wondered if Chad/Lori used us for their media purposes, without us knowing what was going on behind the scenes. It does feel like a big betrayal, and probably to anyone who attended our events," stated Nancy James.

She also stated that Preparing a People no longer holds events.

Since Vallow was on podcasts on their site iirc, that seems an overstatement or poor management.  I probably should check my memory whether it was their site or AVOW that had "Warrior Up" or whatever the name was.

I wonder if they will simply rebrand and restart the conferences once attention is off of them.  There is money to be

https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing_coverage/missing_idaho_kids/cult-member-describes-daybell-vallow-religious-views/article_6e3863ec-634b-11ea-a4b1-2b2bf3dc8637.html

 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

1) Prelim is being requested to be moved to May.

https://www.deseret.com/u-s-world/2020/3/12/21175816/lori-vallow-daybell-preliminary-hearing-postponed-rexburg-idaho

2) Idaho has a one freebie no questions asked change of judge request for prosecution or defense (allows changing of judge without having to argue cause which apparently rarely succeeds and then you get to argue innfront of a judge that you might have offended or called biased, etc....awkward at the very least).  This judge is the same as the judge over the custody/present the kids to the court issue, so that may be why they want a change or they may want another try at getting her bail reduced before additional charges are brought or for a reason no one else can guess.  https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/northwest/idaho/article241112356.html

3) https://religiondispatches.org/how-the-seven-missions-of-the-doomsday-couple-connect-them-to-the-larger-lds-prophecy-subculture/?fbclid=IwAR0SY4MWh4DMtjSyMWxKU1U05gZRrtSUN0Kk1N_96uaeYLbnkpJkKIVlITo

Quote

This is not to say that the average Latter-day Saint doesn’t believe in an approaching second coming—they do—but such beliefs are vaguer and set to occur in a remote future. Through a series of books, the earliest of which gained popularity during the Y2K panic, the LDS prophecy subculture developed its own unique expectations for the end that would become increasingly foreign to that of their fellow Latter-day Saints. Particularly influential titles include Roger K. Young’s As a Thief in the Night(1990), John Pontius’s Visions of Glory: One Man’s Astonishing Account of the Last Days (2012), and Julie Rowe’s A Greater Tomorrow: My Journey Beyond the Veil(2014).

The media has given this prophecy subculture unparalleled attention since December 2019 when apocalyptic fiction author and visionary Chad Daybell and his new wife, Lori Vallow—sometimes referred to as the “doomsday couple”—began to appear across various platforms. The details surrounding the disappearance of their children and three mysterious deaths, including their former spouses,are available at any number of major news sources across the country. But few of these outlets have been able to offer much insight into   a document released last week, a numbered list that Chad sent to Lori in January 2019 entitled, “Seven missions to accomplish together,” which reveals how their beliefs relate to this larger movement....

I have wondered if number 2 on the list refers to translation of the scriptures (one of the topics often debated is the How of Joseph's translation so maybe they think it will be helpful in any proselyting to explain, the culture is one that likes to have gaps in knowledge filled) or translation in terms of mortal to immortal.  This author favors the second interpretation.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

An informative video providing a walkthrough of enhanced video of the storage facilities where bikes, toys, and keepsakes of the kids, including pictures, were abandoned by Vallow (I say abandoned because she stopped paying for it, possibly before it was known to be searched though she just might have assumed as soon as the police showed up for the welfare check, they would be seizing stuff eventually).

Things not mentioned and you might not catch if not that familiar with the case....

 Chad Daybell (you can't see clear features, but the outline and characteristics of his walk makes it a very high probability it is him and definitely most likely of the known men associated with Vallow) is visiting the storage facility three weeks before the death of his wife, Tammy.

Possibly not as it appears, but it looks like he gives Vallow a playful butt slap or something on the way out....three weeks before his wife dies mysteriously.

Daybell told his family she was an empty nester with no minor kids...yet he is storing JJ's toys who is only 7.  Why would Vallow have 7 year old toys in her home when she had just moved if no minor kids?  Add the description of the babysitter who took care of JJ mid September of JJ's toys being in a room of their own while he apparently slept on the floor on a mattress in Vallow's room and it seems highly unlikely Daybell didn't know she had minor kids before he told family otherwise...though it is possible Daybell didn't go into the townhouse prior to his wife's death.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/03/enhanced-video-footage-shows-who-visited-lori-vallows-storage-unit-the-same-day-her-relative-was-shot-at-in-arizona/

JJ was probably sleeping in Vallow's room because he was very unsettled by the loss of his service dog, the move, the lack of contact with his dad (he was told his dad was traveling) and other family members (he used to call grandparents and siblings several times a day), and the disappearance of Tylee ( the babysitter said there was no trace of Tylee in the house she saw, though I don't know if she went or saw into all the rooms).  Tylee may have been the primary caregiver.  The exwife of Charles Vallow says her sons told her when they visited their dad and Lori for the summer, Lori would just take off during the day leaving them on their own; the Vallows often had live in nannies to care for JJ even though Lori didn't work; and Tylee was thinking of staying in Arizona before the move to Rexburg area because all her friends were there, but she moved because of JJ needing her.  If Tylee was already gone for several weeks for whatever reason leaving Vallow to care for JJ on her own or requiring her to hire a nanny if she didn't want to (neighbours had complained about JJ's behaviour when she let him go outside without supervision...she told them he was her niece's drug baby, not that he was her son), Vallow may have realized this was not the life she wanted after all (sharing a bedroom with her autistic son stuck in Idaho) and taken measures to remove the second to last obstacle to her Hawaiian dream (Tammy Daybell being the last).

The reporter makes the likely connection between the shooting at Brandon Boudreaux quite clear, which links Vallow to a crime outside of the disappearance of her children...which means likely additional charges.

Police have probably released it to add pressure, imo.  They are likely to keep doing this every few days in hopes eventually either Daybell or her start talking...or friends and family realize there indeed was an affair before Tammy died and therefore loyalty is misplaced.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Calm