Update on Story Re: Missing Kids (Daybell)

[Judd]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

I am not watching much news of this type lately - what's the deal- they have some link to the church or something?

Became aware today because of the arrest

Why is this thread here?  To me it's just a crime story.... ??

Well she’s married to Moroni, for starters.

[Calm]

On 2/21/2020 at 9:36 PM, mfbukowski said:

I am not watching much news of this type lately - what's the deal- they have some link to the church or something?

Became aware today because of the arrest

Why is this thread here?  To me it's just a crime story.... ??

Chad Daybell is an Latter-day Saint author and publisher.  Some mainstream books, some more fringe.  He is associated with AVOW, an online prepper group with LDS slant.  Also Preparing a People, who have cut off any connection to him, removed his videos off their site, etc.  

He was, I supposed, considered a minor prophet by some as he had his own visions he published along with Julie Rowe and others.  I think he was the power behind Rowe.  He was her editor and basically told her what he wanted to get a bestseller and she gave it to him,(my interpretation of her description of her working on her first book...chapter too short, suddenly her visions gets much longer and exciting).

He started out in Springville where his wife Tammy is from and eventually moved up to Rexburg due to a vision.  He appears to be deeply involved in an even more fringey and super private group within private pay to access AVOW that believes the world ends in July 2020, I believe in part due to his visions.  Apparently a number of the group moved up to Rexburg, possibly to prepare.  Someone in his ward in Rexburg thinks a number of them appear to have gone missing lately, possibly up in the hills in some compound to wait for the second coming.  I have some little hope kids are there, but unlikely.  Would explain why they refuse to say where they are.  But why dump toys and belongings of kids and family pictures if so?

-----

Lori Vallow got involved in the fringe group after becoming obsessed with his books, attended conferences, gave podcasts, and now apparently thinks she is a god/translated Being who will be one who leads the 144,000 who survive the second coming.  Last June her brother, Alex Cox, shot and killed her estranged husband, claiming self defense. She missed out on the $1 million life insurance because Charles had changed it to his sister when he saw how bonkers Vallow was going.  In September, she moved to Rexburg with her two kids, Tylee (16) and adopted autistic son, JJ (7).  Sept 8 was the last time anyone saw Tylee.  It was in Yellowstone Park with her mom, JJ, and uncle Alex...who apparently likes to kill dogs and has other violent tendencies.  Last time anyone saw JJ was Sept 23.  Vallow had been lying about the kids for months, telling people Tylee was dead or off to college even before their disappearance.

Mid-October, Daybell's very healthy wife of 30 years suddenly dies in her sleep.  No autopsy and Daybell get $430,000 life insurance.  Tammy is buried 3 days later in Springville.  November-Two weeks later, Daybell is in Hawaii marrying Vallow.  No sign of either her kids or his.  They go home, he tells kids still living with him he is moving out to live with his new wife and will be selling the home.  They persuade him to let them live there still (adult children).  He tells Tammy's parents she has no minor children.

November, JJ's grandmother who has had no clue where he was as they just disappeared off the map as far as family was concerned when they moved to Rexburg, sees one of Charles' Amazon accounts being used and sending the package to Rexburg.  She contacts Police and asks for a welfare check for JJ.  Police show up at home, Vallow is not there, but Daybell and Cox are.  Daybell says he barely knows her and doesn't know her phone number. Cox says JJ is with Grandma in AZ.  No kids are found at home.  Police eventually find Vallow, she says JJ is with friend in AZ.  Police leave.  Police contact friend and find out JJ isn't there and that Vallow and Daybell both asked her to lie about it.  Police go back next day, but Vallow and Daybell are gone off to Hawaii and have been there ever since refusing to answer any questions about children.  

Cox gets married in Las Vegas late Nov to a good friend of Vallow's.  A few weeks later Alex Cox, her brother, is found dead with foam in his mouth.  Other bodies attached to him:  possibly Tylee's father the previous year, was cremated so can't have an autopsy.  Cox served time previously for assaulting him outside a custody case over Tyler.  Long time ago Cox was found using his sister's credit card after she was found dead in their shared living quarters.  She was diabetic, unsure her cause of death.  

Melani B, the daughter of that sister, is part of the fringe prepper group.  She divorced her husband.  Someone shot at her husband from a car belonging to Charles Vallow.  He went into hiding with their 4 kids, she attempted to get them by trespassing on her inlaws property, then went off and married another prepper.  

Apparently one of the beliefs of the group is you must be married to be saved as one of the 144,000.

Daybell was active in his Rexburg Ward up until he left for Hawaii.  Think he was a ward clerk.  He is no longer listed in ward directory, taken off in December I think.  

No knowledge of Vallow's commitment level.

Julie Rowe, excommunicated self proclaimed prophetess and energy worker, claimed at the beginning Daybell was great guy who had visions his wife, Tammy, was going to die for quite sometime.  Tammy helped Daybell connect with Lori after her death according to Rowe.  The kids were in a wonderful place and the media evil for ignoring her as a valid source.  Then a few weeks later, hey, maybe it wasn't all love and roses.  Daybell had wanted to dump his business and Tammy refused to let him as coowner.  The marriage was strained because of it.  Few weeks later after apparently Daybell publicly rejects Rowe as prophet, she comes out with he's brainwashed his kids, not a nice guy after all.

Other church connection is they attended church twice in Hawaii in January, the ward Vallow had lived in when she used to live in Hawaii with Charles, possibly to try and establish residency to fight extradition or hoping to get bail when the axe finally fell as Vallow had her records transferred there....but not Daybell or the kids.  People are wondering if there is some tieup with him now so they wouldn't transfer them.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I got the feeling she thought she was a Goddess and the rest of us are peasants. Perfect description too Calm. And Chad's face was hilarious. Hope they move her to Rexburg soon. 

Did you see the vid of him walking to the car being followed by people asking "where are the children?"  He must be getting that everytime he leaves the condo.  Someone on Websleuths has been putting up posters all over the area.  A ward member reported when they attended the members were going "why in the world are you here" and mostly keeping away from them.

There is no sense of them being disturbed by anything but their own discomfort...kids?  What kids?  They are angry at the intrusion into their new life in paradise.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Calm

[bsjkki]

@calm That was an amazing synopsis. 👏

[Calm]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

@calm That was an amazing synopsis. 👏

I had to keep editing stuff.  So, so much more weird stuff that creates a better picture of Vallow as psycho, money loving mom, but tried to keep focus on church context. Hope I got the details right as I did it from memory.

It will be interesting if the Church says anything about the fringe group, has any special firesides up in Rexburg to encourage people not to get sucked in, or if they will announce their membership withdrawals publicly.  I highly doubt Daybell or Vallow would do it themselves like Rowe did.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Calm

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

@calm That was an amazing synopsis. 👏

Ditto!

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

Many links to the church. Maybe read the thread from the beginning?

It presumes you are already familiar with the deleted thread.

We have too many threads dedicated to Utah politics excetera. I don't read those. But now it has become National.

I am just looking for like a 25 words or less summary of the connection to the church.

That's okay thanks. I can live without it.

Edited February 22, 2020 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Chad Daybell is an Latter-day Saint author and publisher.  Some mainstream books, some more fringe.  He is associated with AVOW, an online prepper group with LDS slant.  Also Preparing a People, who have cut off any connection to him, removed his videos off their site, etc.  

He was, I supposed, considered a minor prophet by some as he had his own visions he published along with Julie Rowe and others.  I think he was the power behind Rowe.  He was her editor and basically told her what he wanted to get a bestseller and she gave it to him,(my interpretation of her description of her working on her first book...chapter too short, suddenly her visions gets much longer and exciting).

He started out in Springville where his wife Tammy is from and eventually moved up to Rexburg due to a vision.  He appears to be deeply involved in an even more fringey and super private group within private pay to access AVOW that believes the world ends in July 2020, I believe in part due to his visions.  Apparently a number of the group moved up to Rexburg, possibly to prepare.  Someone in his ward in Rexburg thinks a number of them appear to have gone missing lately, possibly up in the hills in some compound to wait for the second coming.  I have some little hope kids are there, but unlikely.  Would explain why they refuse to say where they are.  But why dump toys and belongings of kids and family pictures if so?

-----

Lori Vallow got involved in the fringe group after becoming obsessed with his books, attended conferences, gave podcasts, and now apparently thinks she is a god/translated Being who will be one who leads the 144,000 who survive the second coming.  Last June her brother, Alex Cox, shot and killed her estranged husband, claiming self defense. She missed out on the $1 million life insurance because Charles had changed it to his sister when he saw how bonkers Vallow was going.  In September, she moved to Rexburg with her two kids, Tylee (16) and adopted autistic son, JJ (7).  Sept 8 was the last time anyone saw Tylee.  It was in Yellowstone Park with her mom, JJ, and uncle Alex...who apparently likes to kill dogs and has other violent tendencies.  Last time anyone saw JJ was Sept 23.  Vallow had been lying about the kids for months, telling people Tylee was dead or off to college.

October, Daybell's very healthy wife of 30 years suddenly dies in her sleep.  No autopsy and Daybell get $430,000 life insurance.  Tammy is buried 3 days later in Springville.  Two weeks later, Daybell is in Hawaii marrying Vallow.  No sign of either her kids or his.  They go home, he tells kids still living with him he is moving out to live with his new wife and will be selling the home.  They persuade him to let them live there still (adult children).  He tells Tammy's parents she has no minor children.

November, JJ's grandmother who has had no clue where he was as they just disappeared off the map as far as family was concerned when they moved to Rexburg, sees one of Charles' Amazon accounts being used and sending the package to Rexburg.  She contacts Police and asks for a welfare check for JJ.  Police show up at home, Vallow is not there, but Daybell and Cox are.  Daybell says he barely knows her and doesn't know her phone number. Cox says JJ is with Grandma in AZ.  No kids are found at home.  Police eventually find Vallow, she says JJ is with friend in AZ.  Police leave.  Police contact friend and find out JJ isn't there and that Vallow and Daybell both asked her to lie about it.  Police go back next day, but Vallow and Daybell are gone off to Hawaii and have been there ever since refusing to answer any questions about children.  

Cox gets married in Las Vegas late Nov to a good friend of Vallow's.  A few weeks later Alex Cox, her brother, is found dead with foam in his mouth.  Other bodies attached to him:  possibly Tylee's father the previous year, was cremated so can't have an autopsy.  Cox served time previously for assaulting him outside a custody case over Tyler.  Long time ago Cox was found using his sister's credit card after she was found dead in their shared living quarters.  She was diabetic, unsure her cause of death.  

Melani B, the daughter of that sister, is part of the fringe prepper group.  She divorced her husband.  Someone shot at her husband from a car belonging to Charles Vallow.  He went into hiding with their 4 kids, she attempted to get them by trespassing on her inlaws property, then went off and married another prepper.  

Apparently one of the beliefs of the group is you must be married to be saved as one of the 144,000.

Daybell was active in his Rexburg Ward up until he left for Hawaii.  Think he was a ward clerk.  He is no longer listed in ward directory, taken off in December I think.  

No knowledge of Vallow's commitment level.

Julie Rowe, excommunicated self proclaimed prophetess and energy worker, claimed at the beginning Daybell was great guy who had visions his wife, Tammy, was going to die for quite sometime.  Tammy helped Daybell connect with Lori after her death according to Rowe.  The kids were in a wonderful place and the media evil for ignoring her as a valid source.  Then a few weeks later, hey, maybe it wasn't all love and roses.  Daybell had wanted to dump his business and Tammy refused to let him as coowner.  The marriage was strained because of it.  Few weeks later after apparently Daybell publicly rejects Rowe as prophet, she comes out with he's brainwashed his kids, not a nice guy after all.

Other church connection is they attended church twice in Hawaii in January, the ward Vallow had lived in when she used to live in Hawaii with Charles, possibly to try and establish residency to fight extradition or hoping to get bail when the axe finally fell as Vallow had her records transferred there....but not Daybell or the kids.  People are wondering if there is some tieup with him now so they wouldn't transfer them.

Fabulous!

Thanks so much!

Oh my gosh so much more fodder for the anti's. 

Thank goodness I have not seen any mention of the church so far here in California. That's all we need. More wacko "mormons" in the news.

Thanks Calm

[mfbukowski]

1 minute ago, mfbukowski said:

But why dump toys and belongings of kids and family pictures if so?

Because the world is ending next month!

They don't want to say where the kids are because that will open up the whole Jim Jones thing. ?

[Calm]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

presumes you are already familiar with the deleted thread.

Thread wasn't deleted, just a post.  The person was sharing the experience of a relative who knew someone related to the story.  It could have been dangerous for them, so was deleted.

Added:  oops, thread was deleted, not just posts....but that was the reason.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Calm

[mfbukowski]

31 minutes ago, Calm said:

Thread wasn't deleted, just a post.  The person was sharing the experience of a relative who knew someone related to the story.  It could have been dangerous for them, so was deleted.

Without a link to it, it doesn't exist to anyone new to the discussion.

Someone told me to read the thread without a link to even know what he was talking about.

Like an undiscovered species it doesn't pragmatically exist until someone can find out about it.    You know, social constructivism and all that.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Calm]

36 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Someone told me to read the thread without a link to even know what he was talking about.

I believe she (bsjkki) was talking about this thread....but my eyes are out of focus, so my brain may be too.

 I was wrong because I forgot the previous thread disappeared, though it was just one or two posts that I thought were a safety problem (I think I reported it because of poster might not come back to edit it).  I should be shutting down and sleeping.  Maybe mods can't delete individual posts anymore.

Anyway, that old thread would have been started sometime around December 22nd and lasted 2 or 3 days before getting disappeared and info there would be much more scattered and incomplete, so better to just get info here.

If interested, people probably should find one of the good timelines...the websleuths one is excellent and being used by some news orgs.  Tylee's aunt has one and I linked to it in this thread somewhere.  She is a former reporter and it is well organized and readable and iirc, has a "cast of characters" list as well.  Having it in chronological order helps lessen the chaos.

Might be intelligent to start a new thread with the recent surge in interest due to the national News agencies putting it out front.  Maybe tomorrow or rather later today.  Will make a post with reference links all in one spot.  Night.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Calm

[bsjkki]

I’ve seen a few rumors Daybell was excommunicated but that would not my sense if he was still serving as a ward clerk. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8030909/Cult-mom-Lori-Vallow-appears-Hawaii-court-arrest-disappearance-children.html

 

“Chad, 51, is a prolific author of 25 books focusing on doomsday scenarios and near-death experiences. He is what's known as a 'prepper' - someone who is getting ready for the End of Times - and was a member of a group called Preparing a People.  

Last month DailyMail.com revealed that Chad had been kicked out of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints back in the fall after he declared himself a prophet. “

Edited February 22, 2020 by bsjkki

[Tacenda]

Chad seems to be the culprit of creating monsters like Julie Rowe and bigger, Lori. I hope he doesn't go Scott free.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, bsjkki said:

I’ve seen a few rumors Daybell was excommunicated but that would not my sense if he was still serving as a ward clerk. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8030909/Cult-mom-Lori-Vallow-appears-Hawaii-court-arrest-disappearance-children.html

 

“Chad, 51, is a prolific author of 25 books focusing on doomsday scenarios and near-death experiences. He is what's known as a 'prepper' - someone who is getting ready for the End of Times - and was a member of a group called Preparing a People.  

Last month DailyMail.com revealed that Chad had been kicked out of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints back in the fall after he declared himself a prophet. “

The Daily Mail is not known for its accuracy.  A ward member knows he wasn't released from his calling until he left and there has been no council held since that he is aware of, so if excommunicated it was done very unusually and would have been to publicize his getting kicked out....but no publicity, so no excommunication imo.

The stuff that would get him excommunicated without having been there for the council is hidden online in the private groups.  

The fact that he lied and tried to get a friend to lie about whereabouts of JJ was just publicly released, before that it has only been suspicion, so no reason at the criminal end to excommunicate.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

44 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Chad seems to be the culprit of creating monsters like Julie Rowe and bigger, Lori. I hope he doesn't go Scott free.

Possibly.  It seems her behaviour fundamentally changed when she became obsessed with his books, but there was some off behaviour prior to that, especially when she was fighting for full custody of Tylee with her ex-husband, Joseph Ryan (her brother beat him up outside of court and when the court ruled shared custody, she had them move with Tylee to Hawaii so Ryan couldn't get visitation).

Edited February 22, 2020 by Calm

[longview]

3 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Last month DailyMail.com revealed that Chad had been kicked out of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints back in the fall after he declared himself a prophet. “

Her arrest pictures show Lori (Cox?) Vallow's face to be devoid of human compassion and caring.  Looks very hard bitten.  I would not want to be in the same room with her.

[Calm]

There are reports, but I haven't read everything that gets posted on Websleuths so haven't seen the documentation, that there are many court cases involving Vallow's father refusing to pay his taxes.  He appears to be an anti-government type.  If brought up in this atmosphere, it could have driven Vallow's fascination with all things Chad.

Websleuths respects the privacy of those not directly involved, so nothing else has been posted about Vallow's extended family outside the public appeals of her older son, Colby Ryan, who appears shocked and heartbroken by it all (he has been making public appeals to his mom since it broke).

Edited February 22, 2020 by Calm

[mfbukowski]

Well since the end is coming in a few days, either they killed the kids so they don't have to go through the misery of the last days, and went on a last trip to Hawaii or the kids are with the prepper group, safe with the rest of the "ward".

And a good prepper will never reveal the location of his stash. You have lived your whole life finding a place to get away from people.

[Calm]

From Lam's Twitter

Quote

New documents filed in AZ about the attempted murder of Brandon Boudreaux. Brandon + his attorney say Alex Cox was the shooter and that his ex-wife Melani has confessed (to her new husband) that she set up the attempt on his life.

Melani also knows what happened to the kids according to Brandon.  She was living next door to Vallow in Rexburg and was very close to her aunt and as gung ho into the end times stuff.  If anyone does know besides Vallow now Cox is dead, it would be her even more than Daybell imo as I can see Daybell perhaps preferring not to know details and just helping to cover up the disappearances while Melani was getting 'help' with her plans to remove her husband as an obstacle from Alex, which highly suggests Vallow's involvement.

Her new husband stated that he is afraid for the safety of his own kids and gave up visits with them as a result.  Got to wonder if he is afraid for his own life.

It is coming across to me as less an extended group of fringe end times and more a family centered obsession around Daybell, whether he was seduced into it by the practical worship of him as a prophet by the three or created the situation himself, who knows.  That the death of Daybell's wife was one of the last things that happened seems like maybe he was not so committed about it or maybe he saw Vallow first as just a follower, but when Tammy won't descend into the deep crazy and Vallow offered herself as eager replacement as time was getting short, his plans of his partner in the work changed (not many months till 2020 if he truly believes that and from conversations with friends back to mission days he has always presented himself as a visionary, so quite possibly a true believer and not just a power hungry sociopath....it would explain the years of being the great friend and father).

Anyway, when good friends (Melani Gibb) and new husbands (can't remember his name) are refusing pretty quickly not to go along with the crazy, it loses the feel of some sort of movement.  More like Vallow was the center of Alex and Melani's universe and she wanted Chad to be hers.

If so, I have much less hope that the kids are alive.  No movement means most likely no hidden place in mountain where way too committed end timers are hanging out and could hide kids...unless there is more than one crazy going on.  The mountain men couldn't bring forward the kids without exposing they exist, so they are stuck.  Daybell and Vallow could think they get the power in July and so they just need to wait it out, and why not in comfort.

Would really like to know if the July 2020 is a solid belief or was just something talked about as a vague possibility of something happening.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Calm

[bsjkki]

Here is a news story explaining this latest development. https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/court-documents-detail-how-lori-vallows-niece-may-have-information-on-missing-children.amp?__twitter_impression=true

[bsjkki]

Also JJ was seen on a ring doorbell 9/17. 

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/jj-vallow-caught-on-ring-doorbell-video-in-the-last-known-recorded-sighting-of-the-now-missing-7-year-old

Edited February 23, 2020 by bsjkki

[bsjkki]

Also heard, Alex Cox was involved with an ‘accidental discharge’ of a firearm at a Rexburg apartment complex. I found a police report for such an incident Nov. 5th but it did not name names. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by bsjkki

[Calm]

19 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

fireman

Sure that is what you mean?  

Can someone get accidentally fired or does that mean he lost his job due to an accident?  

I am betting autocorrect strikes again.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

Also heard, Alex Cox was involved with an ‘accidental discharge’ of a firearm at a Rexburg apartment complex. I found a police report for such an incident Nov. 5th but it did not name names. 

Haven't seen that one before as far as .i can tell, not on two very thorough timelines I checked.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Calm