Update on Story Re: Missing Kids (Daybell)

[smac97]

I'm not sure what happened to the thread about the kids missing in Idaho, but here's an update about that story:

Quote

A large group of local and federal law enforcement officers are executing a search warrant of the Salem, Idaho home owned by Chad Daybell and his deceased spouse, Tammy.

The group of law enforcement, including the Rexburg Police Department, Fremont County Sheriff’s Office and the Forensic Unit from the FBI’s Salt Lake City Office, arrived at the home early Friday. Marked and unmarked vehicles surround the rural property at 202 North 1900 East in Salem, Idaho.

Fremont County Sheriff Len Humphries tells EastIdahoNews.com that law enforcement recently obtained sufficient probable cause to get a search warrant for the home. Officers are searching for forensic evidence such as blood or chemicals, which might shed some light on the Daybell case.

“This has been in the works for several days,” Humphries said. “When you are doing an investigation, you have to accumulate evidence, and the process takes time.”

Humphries would not say what the sufficient probable cause was that allowed them to get the warrant. He did say investigators could be at the scene for most of the day.

Humphries also said the search warrant is related to both the missing children and suspicious death cases.

“It’s all related,” Humphries said.

Police are investigating the disappearance of 7-year-old Joshua "JJ" Vallow and 17-year-old Tylee Ryan.

Apparently Chad Daybell and his current wife, Lori Vallow Daybell, are not in custody or otherwise cooperating with law enforcement.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I'm not sure what happened to the thread about the kids missing in Idaho, but here's an update about that story:

Apparently Chad Daybell and his current wife, Lori Vallow Daybell, are not in custody or otherwise cooperating with law enforcement.

Thanks,

-Smac

It shared some personal info of someone not involved so I think the mods hide it just to be careful it not happen again given the connections many members might have in some way. 

[Tacenda]

These people should be arrested and interrogated about the whereabouts of her children, lame!

[sheilauk]

11 hours ago, Tacenda said:

These people should be arrested and interrogated about the whereabouts of her children, lame!

Give the police time.  Given the constraints on them, and the publicity inherent in this case and the seriousness of the allegations,  they likely want to be absolutely sure of their evidence and their case before arresting anyone.  There are consequences for the police once an arrest is made (such as time limits) which can affect their further investigation and collection of evidence.  

ETA also, police need evidence to justify arrest, not just suspicion and the more serious a case the more careful they are about that. Investigate,  get evidence, then arrest and interrogate. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by sheilauk

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, sheilauk said:

Give the police time.  Given the constraints on them, and the publicity inherent in this case and the seriousness of the allegations,  they likely want to be absolutely sure of their evidence and their case before arresting anyone.  There are consequences for the police once an arrest is made (such as time limits) which can affect their further investigation and collection of evidence.  

ETA also, police need evidence to justify arrest, not just suspicion and the more serious a case the more careful they are about that. Investigate,  get evidence, then arrest and interrogate. 

I know what you're talking about, I guess I thought there was some way to make them come in and answer to where their children are. Maybe time isn't the essence, if they're dead. But the trail will go cold as well, possibly. And the children by law are supposed to go to school I thought. Of course there are homeschooled children, but does the state need proof of that as well, I wonder. 

[bluebell]

1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

I know what you're talking about, I guess I thought there was some way to make them come in and answer to where their children are. Maybe time isn't the essence, if they're dead. But the trail will go cold as well, possibly. And the children by law are supposed to go to school I thought. Of course there are homeschooled children, but does the state need proof of that as well, I wonder. 

I'm wondering about this as well.  Why can't police compel legal guardians of minors to either prove they are safe or hold them until they do?  Why isn't refusing to show police that your children are safe an arrest-able offense?  You  can be arrested for refusing to show them your driver's license if you are pulled over while driving, but your children are considered to be in danger and legal guardians are under no legal obligation to prove they are safe?

[Tacenda]

4 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm wondering about this as well.  Why can't police compel legal guardians of minors to either prove they are safe or hold them until they do?  Why isn't refusing to show police that your children are safe an arrest-able offense?  You  can be arrested for refusing to show them your driver's license if you are pulled over while driving, but your children are considered to be in danger and legal guardians are under no legal obligation to prove they are safe?

Yep, thanks for adding to this. Why are people hauled in for the simplest things compared to children missing! Thanks bluebell, this is helpful to see it in perspective. 

I know on the news last night they finally have permission to search Daybell's home. That took way too long too. There are many cases where the police or investigators drop the ball...I consider this to be one. 

[bsjkki]

The Daily Mail story said they were 'on the run.' I'm not sure they know where these two are in order to question them. They did not know the children were missing until  the week of Thanksgiving and then, I thought, the two took off and are in hiding.

Edited January 5, 2020 by bsjkki

[sheilauk]

Apart from the problem that the police may not know where the adults are to arrest them,  the police ability to arrest them would depend on the laws in place.  I don't know whether it's an offence in that part of the USA but in the UK it's not.   Thats not to say that the UK police could do nothing.   If they suspect a child is in danger,  they can force entry and search and arrest parents or others for obstruction if they try to prevent it. I dont know what powers the US police have in this situation, but, sometimes the police seem to be moving very slowly but they have to get things in order and they often have more knowledge than is made known through the press. I believe there will be good reasons why it's taken this long and why the parents haven't been arrested yet.  It may come out in the future.  I'm afraid that real life policing is nothing like the TV dramas! 

Edited January 4, 2020 by sheilauk

[smac97]

7 minutes ago, sheilauk said:

Apart from the problem that the police may not know where the adults are to arrest them,  the police ability to arrest them would depend on the laws in place.  I don't know whether it's an offence in that part of the USA but in the UK it's not.   Thats not to say that the UK police could do nothing.   If they suspect a child is in danger,  they can force entry and search and arrest parents or others for obstruction if they try to prevent it. I dont know what powers the US police have in this situation, but, sometimes the police seem to be moving very slowly but they have to get things in order and they often have more knowledge than is made known through the press. I believe there will be good reasons why it's taken this long and why the parents haven't been arrested yet.  It may come out in the future. 

Both local law enforcement and the FBI are involved.  If there were legal means to compel the parents to cooperate, I'm sure those means would have been utilized by now.

7 minutes ago, sheilauk said:

I'm afraid that real life policing is nothing like the TV dramas! 

Oh, I don't know.  I've watched pretty much every episode of Midsomer Murders, A Touch of Frost, Inspector Lewis, Endeavour, and - best of all - Foyle's War.

I've got the British legal system down pat. 

-Smac

 

[sheilauk]

31 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Both local law enforcement and the FBI are involved.  If there were legal means to compel the parents to cooperate, I'm sure those means would have been utilized by now.

Oh, I don't know.  I've watched pretty much every episode of Midsomer Murders, A Touch of Frost, Inspector Lewis, Endeavour, and - best of all - Foyle's War.

I've got the British legal system down pat. 

-Smac

 

There may not be the means to compel cooperation or the police may not be ready to take that step,  but it's their call not ours as they have the full info.  In addition,  involving more than one agency requires longer planning. 

😏 I've watched all those shows too,  and all the CSI,  law and order,  murder she wrote,  Perry Mason,  Matlock, nypd blue, hill street blues, starsky and hutch, cagney and lacey. .. and books by the score!   Crime is my hobby as well as my job.  I've been in criminal law for over 30 years and I don't have the British system down pat, let alone the US one!  😉  I wish it did work as well as it does on TV!   (I know that you jest,  Smac! )

ETA just realised how the crime as a hobby sentence could sound!   I don't mean I commit crime as a hobby,  but that it's my favourite book, film and TV genre!  ☺

Edited January 5, 2020 by sheilauk

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, smac97 said:

Both local law enforcement and the FBI are involved.  If there were legal means to compel the parents to cooperate, I'm sure those means would have been utilized by now.

Oh, I don't know.  I've watched pretty much every episode of Midsomer Murders, A Touch of Frost, Inspector Lewis, Endeavour, and - best of all - Foyle's War.

I've got the British legal system down pat. 

-Smac

 

The more important question is whether you look good in the wig.

[smac97]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7854133/Doomsday-cult-member-mom-threatened-kill-husband-five-months-shot-dead.html

Quote

• Lori Vallow is on the run from police with her new husband Chad Daybell
• The pair are persons of interest in the disappearance of Lori's children, Joshua 'JJ' Vallow, seven, and Tylee Ryan, 17 
• They are believed to be members of a dangerous doomsday cult 
• Lori's previous husband, Charles Vallow, described her as being 'infatuated' with doomsday and near-death experiences in a divorce petition filed last February 
• During a January 29 phone call, Lori allegedly told Charles that she was a 'God assigned to carry out the work of the 144,000 at Christ's second coming'
• She allegedly threatened to murder Charles if he 'got in the way of her mission'  
• On July 11, Charles was shot dead by Lori's brother, Alex Cox
• In November, Lori married Chad, whose wife Tammy died two weeks earlier
• Cox joined the list of mysteriously deceased family members on December 12
• The complex web of deaths surrounding Lori and Chad came to light in mid-December amid a multi-state police search for Joshua and Tylee 

Quote

Timeline of Joshua and Tylee's disappearance 

July 11: Lori Vallow's husband, Charles Vallow, killed in self-defense by her brother, Alex Cox, in Arizona following an argument between the three people

August: The last time Joshua's grandparents, Kay and Larry Woodcock, said they saw the boy via FaceTime 

August: September: Lori moved children Joshua and Tylee to Rexburg, Idaho

September 23: The last time Joshua was seen at his school in Idaho

October: Activity found on a Venmo account that may belong to Tylee

October 19: Chad Daybell's wife, Tammy Daybell, dies at their home in Rexburg. Officials rule her death to be of natural causes

October 22: Tammy is buried in Springville, Utah

Late October:  Lori and Chad get married

November 26: Out-of-state relatives ask Idaho police to perform a welfare check on Joshua. Lori and Chad claim he is in Arizona with a family friend. Police also learn Tylee has not been seen since September, either

November 27: Police execute a search warrant at Lori and Chad's home, discovering the couple have fled the city

December 11: Tammy Daybell's body is exhumed from the Utah cemetery

December 12: Lori's brother, Alex Cox, believed to have died in Arizona

 

Weird stuff.  I hope the kids turn up safe.

Edited January 5, 2020 by smac97

[LoudmouthMormon]

On 1/4/2020 at 9:47 AM, bluebell said:

Why can't police compel legal guardians of minors to either prove they are safe or hold them until they do?

Because of the 4th amendment. 

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

So no, cops can't just go and demand to see people's kids, and imprison them until they cooperate.  They need a reason, a warrant or probable cause.

[bluebell]

3 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Because of the 4th amendment. 

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

So no, cops can't just go and demand to see people's kids, and imprison them until they cooperate.  They need a reason, a warrant or probable cause.

But isn't the fact that the kids can't be found and have been missing for weeks probable cause?  

[smac97]

https://www.wonkette.com/doomsday-cult-mother-with-missing-kids-claimed-she-was-a-god

Seems derivative (a compilation of links).

[Tacenda]

17 minutes ago, smac97 said:

https://www.wonkette.com/doomsday-cult-mother-with-missing-kids-claimed-she-was-a-god

Seems derivative (a compilation of links).

Hum, I wonder where she gets the idea that she is a God....

[smac97]

6 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Hum, I wonder where she gets the idea that she is a God....

Where, indeed.

Every good precept can be distorted and perverted.

Thanks,

-Smac

[bsjkki]

7 hours ago, bluebell said:

But isn't the fact that the kids can't be found and have been missing for weeks probable cause?  

From my understanding, the cops got a request for a welfare check on the kids. They conducted that check. They were told the kids were elsewhere. Investigated the claim. The kids were not where they were told they were. They went back and the Daybell's had run and no one knows where they are.

Edited January 7, 2020 by bsjkki

[stemelbow]

Quote

Chad — who has published several books about doomsday or near-death experiences — told his friend Julie Rowe that he had visions about first wife Tammy Daybell’s death.

“He was emotionally distraught, he was crying and he said that his angels had told him that he was going to lose Tammy,” Rowe told news station Fox13.

Earlier this year, Chad spoke on the phone to Rowe and relayed again his premonitions about Tammy’s death.

“And I asked him, ‘Do you still see Tammy dying?’ And he said, ‘Yes I do,’” Rowe said.

Three weeks later, 49-year-old Tammy was found dead in her home from what authorities initially determined were natural causes. But her body has been exhumed and authorities are awaiting toxicology results about her cause of death, police said.

Within weeks of her death, Chad married Lori Vallow Daybell, authorities said.

So, her brother helped kill her ex-husband in self-defense, while the ex-husband was reportedly afraid for his life, after threats from his wife?  and then her brother too ends up dead?  And it turns out his wife dies after he seemingly appears distraught of prophesying of her death, then marries his new wife a couple of weeks after his beloved wife died?  And two kids are missing still?

Sounds like prepper hysteria got the best of these two.  

 

 

[smac97]

Julie Rowe has posted a video about her relationship with Chad Daybell:

Here's an interesting bit (at about 4:55):

Quote

 

Eric: Speaking of news media, Julie, as I watch these, they are making a pretty compelling case about some of the accusations against them {Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow}.  You think it's possible that Chad and his new wife, Lori, are innocent of any foul play?

Julie: {Laughing} Not only is possible, I know he is.  I know Chad Daybell's heart.  I know him.  

 

She also distances herself from "Preparing a People."  She also states that the Church "didn't get {her} back" (did not support her) when negative media coverage about her was circulating, and that the media in part caused her excommunication (9:40).

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited January 6, 2020 by smac97

[stemelbow]

Thanks for the update, Smac.  I started watching/listening to the video but couldn't get much more past a minute or two.  I'm not into energy sessions and prophesying the death of someone, concluding she doesn't really have much to add to the story.  As it is friends and family of killers sometimes come out surprised, so I don't know her claimed knowledge means much.  

[Calm]

3 hours ago, smac97 said:

Julie Rowe has posted a video about her relationship with Chad Daybell:

Here's an interesting bit (at about 4:55):

She also distances herself from "Preparing a People."  She also states that the Church "didn't get {her} back" (did not support her) when negative media coverage about her was circulating, and that the media in part caused her excommunication (9:40).

Thanks,

-Smac

That podcast and comments was, imo, "All About Me" (she made a big deal about reaching out to media and getting ignored, but she was still pushing it and kept talking about her own security issues, support or lack thereof for her, etc and then how she could 'scan' anyone making snide comments about her...would that qualify as psychic stalking?) and very little additional facts about the case.  She did him no favor to claim he had told her he had visions of his wife's death years ago and it was going to happen sooner rather than later, etc.  That could be used to claim premeditation if the autopsy finds evidence of homicide.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Thanks for the update, Smac.  I started watching/listening to the video but couldn't get much more past a minute or two.  I'm not into energy sessions and prophesying the death of someone, concluding she doesn't really have much to add to the story.  As it is friends and family of killers sometimes come out surprised, so I don't know her claimed knowledge means much.  

If it turns out her mentor/publisher/'bosom buddy, now semi-estranged friend who didn't really have her back, but all is forgiven' is a murderer or hooked up with a murderer, it blows her credibility as a seer (as she describes it, not as Latter-day Saint doctrine).  She has to take the position he is being wronged, imo.  I don't know how often she gets people coming to her without first contact with her fans, but if there are still some attracted by her public reputation, she has to publicly defend the context of her 'calling'...which means defend him at this point.  If she is tied into the same cult he is, then waiting in anticipation that he might be found a murderer and then coming out that she was aware of his turning to the dark side but was told to stand back...that would likely alienate the alleged cult members who will see him as a victim no matter what.

Combine that with her apparently intense need to stay relevant and willingness to take risks  (thus we got almost specific timelines from her, something unusual imo and what made her top dog until one after another date was blown past without the foreseen disaster)...we get this podcast.

I would love to know why she is doing it in the car and if other podcasts are done that way (a cheap soundproofing option perhaps or avoiding someone?)

[smac97]

An update:

Quote

Family members of two missing Idaho children are expected to speak at a press conference Tuesday morning.

Larry and Kay Woodcock, grandparents of 7-year-old Joshua Vallow, are expected to speak at the Rexburg Standard Journal newspaper at 11:30 a.m. Tuesday. KSL will be providing a live stream of the press conference, which can be accessed here.

Joshua and his 17-year-old sister, Tylee Ryan, have been missing since September. Their mother and stepfather, Lori and Chad Daybell, have not been cooperating with police in their investigation into the children’s disappearance.

The Daybells have been named persons of interest in the case but have not been charged with any crimes.

Several family members have made pleas for the Daybells to cooperate with police. On Friday, police served a warrant on the Daybells’ home and seized 43 items, including computers, cellphones, journals and other items.

The video is streaming as I write this.

It sounds like they are offering a reward for information about the whereabouts of the kids (or at least the boy).

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited January 7, 2020 by smac97