Update on Story Re: Missing Kids (Daybell)

[pogi]

2 hours ago, alter idem said:

she had pink foam coming from her mouth, which may just be part of the death process, and not indicative of why she died, though.

I worked in hospice and have seen many bodies the morning after their death.  Never once have I seen or heard of pink foam coming out of a recently deceased corpse.  I personally have never seen foam at all.  That is indicative of a drug overdose.  Foaming can be present with severe heart attacks and maybe a couple other causes like rabies and respiratory issues, but there is no reason it would be pink.  Foaming can happen with seizures, but again, it wouldn't be pink, and people don't typically die from seizures.  Chad would have noticed and reported a seizure.   If it was a respiratory issue, she wouldn't have slept through it peacefully without alerting Chad that something is wrong.  Pink indicates either blood or chemicals causing the discoloration. Heart attacks don't cause bleeding or pink foam.  I can't believe there was no autopsy with pnk foam coming out of her mouth.  I can't think of any natural manner of death that would cause pink foam that a person would sleep through. 

Edited June 12, 2020 by pogi

[katherine the great]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Yes, I agree.

Yes, he seems to have a few potential errors in his summary.

Plus, I think it's inappropriate for a doctor to disclaim that he is diagnosing people he's never met, only to then proceed to diagnose them in just about every way he can.

Thanks,

-Smac

Terribly inappropriate! (but I still got a huge kick out of it!)

[alter idem]

55 minutes ago, pogi said:

I worked in hospice and have seen many bodies the morning after their death.  Never once have I seen or heard of pink foam coming out of a recently deceased corpse.  I personally have never seen foam at all.  That is indicative of a drug overdose.  Foaming can be present with severe heart attacks and maybe a couple other causes like rabies and respiratory issues, but there is no reason it would be pink.  Foaming can happen with seizures, but again, it wouldn't be pink, and people don't typically die from seizures.  Chad would have noticed and reported a seizure.   If it was a respiratory issue, she wouldn't have slept through it peacefully without alerting Chad that something is wrong.  Pink indicates either blood or chemicals causing the discoloration. Heart attacks don't cause bleeding or pink foam.  I can't believe there was no autopsy with pnk foam coming out of her mouth.  I can't think of any natural manner of death that would cause pink foam that a person would sleep through. 

I think that since the responders/coroner were not thinking foul play, they did not notify police that her death was possibly foul play.  Chad declined an autopsy, and the body would likely have been immediately embalmed, ready for her funeral in three days.  I recall that Chad said somewhere (this was months ago, I don't remember where I read it) that Tammy woke up in the night with a coughing fit.  He said he then went back to sleep and found her dead in the morning.  But I also thought Chad said he found Tammy on the ground next to the bed, but the neighbor said she was found in bed dead.  There seems to be some discrepancy.   Yea, I don't know about the pink foam, I'm disappointed that the coroner didn't insist on an autopsy, and not leave it up to the family to decide if they wanted one.  It's too bad Idaho did not have a law that would require it when cause of death was not known.  I've also wondered who was home in the house that night.  Also, when Chad found her, which of the children came into the room to see her right after he woke up.  And, who did Chad call?  I assume 911, and it was most likely paramedics and fire dept. that responded.  I wonder if they wrote up a report of their findings.

[alter idem]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Oh shoot, I mean't the person that didn't ask for an autopsy at the get go. Not the current people trying to figure out the cause of death.  And maybe like you mentioned maybe they are making chad sweat it out and confess, hopefully they won't get him a plea deal and a shorter sentence. I can't imagine what his kids are going through. I'm sure after losing their mom, they held tight to their dad. And then now after finding out his evil deeds, they are left with no parent or maybe they'll forgive him. Hopefully their grandparents will be very close, which I'm sure they are. Thanks Alter!

Thanks Tacenda   The Daybell children have been a conundrum from the beginning.  Also, the Cox family.  Neither has been helpful at all in trying to locate the children, and now that they've been found dead in Chad's yard, I find the two families' pronounced silence even more troubling.  It makes me wonder what they knew or what they may have suspected, which they kept quiet.  But, that's just my suspicious nature, I guess.  I'm sorry they lost their mom, what a terrible tragedy, and I especially felt so terrible for the son who was serving a mission at the time, and as his father was hiding and then refusing to cooperate with authorities.

edited to add;  I should say that I think Adam Cox has been helpful; I believe he shared information about what he knew regarding Charles and Lori's marriage and the relationship with Chad during that time.  And, he was not a party to the Cox statement that was offered after the children were found.

Edited June 12, 2020 by alter idem

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

And Lori's first husband's death of an apparent heart attack, I'm suspicious of too. 

Joseph Ryan was her third husband.  The first she married right out of high school, I believe they were divorced after a few months.  The second I believe lasted a year and Colby was born during this marriage.  Joseph Ryan adopted Colby and was the biological father of Tylee.  I am thinking they weren't married longer than 5 years, but need to check.  Charles Vallow did not adopt either Tylee or Colby, but Lori and him adopted JJ, who was his nephew's son.  Their marriage lasted about 13 years.  

It has been reported in all cases the husband filed for divorce.  I don't know how significant that is, especially in the context of Joseph Ryan being accused of sexually abusing Tylee and Colby.

[Calm]

49 minutes ago, alter idem said:

should say that I think Adam Cox has been helpful; I believe he shared information about what he knew regarding Charles and Lori's marriage and the relationship with Chad during that time.  And, he was not a party to the Cox statement that was offered after the children were found.

His son, Zac, probably helped as well since he was living with them prior to the first main break where she took the kids, took his truck from the airport parking lot, canceled his ticket (malicious or was she trying to delay him coming home for some reason?).  He supported Charles' claims that she was acting strangely as that is why he took off...(though I haven't read but a few of his Twitter remarks and I am not remembering what others reported of his, remember something like him saying she was bat#*% crazy).

[Calm]

https://mobile.twitter.com/KellyVaughen/status/1271635151533903872

Lighting candles for JJ and Tylee...

Edited June 13, 2020 by Calm

[alter idem]

On 6/12/2020 at 12:19 PM, pogi said:

I worked in hospice and have seen many bodies the morning after their death.  Never once have I seen or heard of pink foam coming out of a recently deceased corpse.  I personally have never seen foam at all.  That is indicative of a drug overdose.  Foaming can be present with severe heart attacks and maybe a couple other causes like rabies and respiratory issues, but there is no reason it would be pink.  Foaming can happen with seizures, but again, it wouldn't be pink, and people don't typically die from seizures.  Chad would have noticed and reported a seizure.   If it was a respiratory issue, she wouldn't have slept through it peacefully without alerting Chad that something is wrong.  Pink indicates either blood or chemicals causing the discoloration. Heart attacks don't cause bleeding or pink foam.  I can't believe there was no autopsy with pnk foam coming out of her mouth.  I can't think of any natural manner of death that would cause pink foam that a person would sleep through. 

Okay, thanks for the information.  I did read on some internet searches that pink foam (I assume what is being described is foam with traces of blood in it, causing it to look pink) can be seen in dead bodies and it is found in dead heart attack victims.  On another forum a nurse said it can be indicative of blood clots in the lungs.  What is interesting to me is that Alex Cox was foaming at the mouth when he died, and the cause of death in his autopsy report was blood clots in the lungs.

I don't know if that means anything, but if they both had foam at the mouth, I'd want the authorities to research it,  just in case it might mean something.

[alter idem]

Saw this comment on an article about this;

 

Quote

Pink froth/foam can happen as a result from cardiac failure as a result from overdose. If the heart does not pump blood forward as it's supposed to do, pressure builds up and forces fluid out of the blood vessels and into the lungs where it then comes out of your mouth or nose. It essentially means you're drowning in your own fluid.

 

[alter idem]

On 6/12/2020 at 1:53 AM, Calm said:

Rat abandoning the ship:

https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/longtime-friend-of-chad-daybell-is-no-longer-sticking-up-for-his-friend
 

I say “rat” because of his treatment of the Woodcocks. No apology to them yet. 
 

 

I saw this and was reminded of exactly what Christopher Parrett's defense of Chad and Lori was, which is posted below.

 

Quote

Thanks for the update. The issue is that people are linking me to Julie’s (Rowe) beliefs, which I studied but rejected. Lori and I have been absolutely silent for three months. I am constrained by my lawyers from saying more until the legal mess is complete, but be assured I will be back. Hopefully, the subscribers will be there when I can fully return to GRI and tell my experiences. I appreciate your support. Chad.”

Parrett also posted these messages after a conversation with Chad.

From the AVOW website.

From the AVOW website.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/02/a-look-at-the-religious-circle-surrounding-chad-and-lori-daybell/

 

Wow.  Can you be more wrong???

He did not apologize for accusing the Woodcocks of being involved in a 'nasty ugly custody case' and for his part in repeating Chad's lies and making it even more difficult to get to the truth.  The grandparents are the victims, mourning the deaths of the children now,  and his vigorous, accusatory defense, should require an apology, imo.

[pogi]

1 hour ago, alter idem said:

Okay, thanks for the information.  I did read on some internet searches that pink foam (I assume what is being described is foam with traces of blood in it, causing it to look pink) can be seen in dead bodies and it is found in dead heart attack victims.  On another forum a nurse said it can be indicative of blood clots in the lungs.  What is interesting to me is that Alex Cox was foaming at the mouth when he died, and the cause of death in his autopsy report was blood clots in the lungs.

I don't know if that means anything, but if they both had foam at the mouth, I'd want the authorities to research it,  just in case it might mean something.

Pulmonary embolism (PE) aka blood clot in lungs, is one of the things I was thinking when I said "respiratory issues" could cause pink froth.  I ruled it out though because I was under the assumption that the story was that she died peacefully in her sleep.  I now understand that she woke up in a "coughing fit".  That is indicative of PE.  She would not have just gone back to sleep though if it was massive enough to be fatal.  It would have been blatantly obvious that it was an emergency.  If it was PE that killed her, he would have known that something was terribly wrong and he would have been negligent not to call an ambulance.

PE's do not usually cause sudden death.  Only 25% of people will die suddenly from PE (they don't go back to sleep, unless sleep = dead).  23% will die within 3 months, over 30% will die after 6 months, and over 37% will die after 1 year of diagnosis.  See: https://www.bing.com/search?q=how+fast+can+you+die+from+pulmonary+embolism&form=EDGEAR&qs=PF&cvid=88e00de8d9e94bb0a2e8e04825053821&cc=US&setlang=en-US&plvar=

So, to have 2 relatively young and healthy people with no known risk factors, and who have close ties to Chad, die suddenly within a very short amount of time of each other from a massive acute PE, seems beyond believable.  Unless it wasn't naturally caused:

Quote

Another misdiagnosis possibility is that a particular medication or substance may be the real cause of the disease. Certain medications, chemicals, toxins or substances may possibly be underlying causes of Pulmonary embolism. Side effects of medications, or exposure to toxins, chemicals, or other substances may cause a symptom or condition. Hence, they become possible underlying causes of Pulmonary embolism but are often misdiagnosed or overlooked as a cause.  

https://www.rightdiagnosis.com/p/pulmonary_embolism/medic.htm

I hope that is not what happened.  What a cruel way to kill someone. You would have to be the devil himself to sit and watch and do nothing while someone close to you dies slowly in extreme panic, coughing with shortness of breath, and fatal heart arrhythmia and/or cardiogenic shock.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by pogi

[Calm]

48 minutes ago, pogi said:

the story was that she died peacefully in her sleep.  I now understand that she woke up in a "coughing fit". 

The “story” has a couple of versions from Chad (such as a little coughing the night before, found her on the floor, next to him in bed off the top of my head). Probably the most accurate ones will come from the ones living there (besides Chad) now that they know the truth about the dead children. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/06/with-heavy-hearts-police-identify-remains-found-on-daybell-property/

Tylee's friend at vigil:  https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2605131416416323&id=516059045086376

Edited June 13, 2020 by Calm

[Tacenda]

I know there are other videos of the vigil but this seems complete with Nate, from Eastern Idaho News. He speaks with Lori's friend April from Hawaii that is there. I'm still watching from the beginning.

 

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, pogi said:

Pulmonary embolism (PE) aka blood clot in lungs, is one of the things I was thinking when I said "respiratory issues" could cause pink froth.  I ruled it out though because I was under the assumption that the story was that she died peacefully in her sleep.  I now understand that she woke up in a "coughing fit".  That is indicative of PE.  She would not have just gone back to sleep though if it was massive enough to be fatal.  It would have been blatantly obvious that it was an emergency.  If it was PE that killed her, he would have known that something was terribly wrong and he would have been negligent not to call an ambulance.

PE's do not usually cause sudden death.  Only 25% of people will die suddenly from PE (they don't go back to sleep, unless sleep = dead).  23% will die within 3 months, over 30% will die after 6 months, and over 37% will die after 1 year of diagnosis.  See: https://www.bing.com/search?q=how+fast+can+you+die+from+pulmonary+embolism&form=EDGEAR&qs=PF&cvid=88e00de8d9e94bb0a2e8e04825053821&cc=US&setlang=en-US&plvar=

So, to have 2 relatively young and healthy people with no known risk factors, and who have close ties to Chad, die suddenly within a very short amount of time of each other from a massive acute PE, seems beyond believable.  Unless it wasn't naturally caused:

https://www.rightdiagnosis.com/p/pulmonary_embolism/medic.htm

I hope that is not what happened.  What a cruel way to kill someone. You would have to be the devil himself to sit and watch and do nothing while someone close to you dies slowly in extreme panic, coughing with shortness of breath, and fatal heart arrhythmia and/or cardiogenic shock.

 

 

 

 

https://www.cardiosmart.org/healthwise/ue40/84/ue4084 Here is info about having pink foaming mucus.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/186328

Maybe this is how they did it to both Tammy and Alex. 

Just 2-3 ml of air injected into the cerebral circulation can cause death

Edited June 13, 2020 by Tacenda

[Judd]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

https://www.cardiosmart.org/healthwise/ue40/84/ue4084 Here is info about having pink foaming mucus.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/186328

Maybe this is how they did it to both Tammy and Alex. 

Just 2-3 ml of air injected into the cerebral circulation can cause death

That’s much easier said than done.

[Calm]

Remembering Tylee:

https://m.facebook.com/134640763365616/posts/1624109344418743/

[alter idem]

23 hours ago, pogi said:

Pulmonary embolism (PE) aka blood clot in lungs, is one of the things I was thinking when I said "respiratory issues" could cause pink froth.  I ruled it out though because I was under the assumption that the story was that she died peacefully in her sleep.  I now understand that she woke up in a "coughing fit".  That is indicative of PE.  She would not have just gone back to sleep though if it was massive enough to be fatal.  It would have been blatantly obvious that it was an emergency.  If it was PE that killed her, he would have known that something was terribly wrong and he would have been negligent not to call an ambulance.

PE's do not usually cause sudden death.  Only 25% of people will die suddenly from PE (they don't go back to sleep, unless sleep = dead).  23% will die within 3 months, over 30% will die after 6 months, and over 37% will die after 1 year of diagnosis.  See: https://www.bing.com/search?q=how+fast+can+you+die+from+pulmonary+embolism&form=EDGEAR&qs=PF&cvid=88e00de8d9e94bb0a2e8e04825053821&cc=US&setlang=en-US&plvar=

So, to have 2 relatively young and healthy people with no known risk factors, and who have close ties to Chad, die suddenly within a very short amount of time of each other from a massive acute PE, seems beyond believable.  Unless it wasn't naturally caused:

https://www.rightdiagnosis.com/p/pulmonary_embolism/medic.htm

I hope that is not what happened.  What a cruel way to kill someone. You would have to be the devil himself to sit and watch and do nothing while someone close to you dies slowly in extreme panic, coughing with shortness of breath, and fatal heart arrhythmia and/or cardiogenic shock.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for this information, that is very interesting.  I have felt that if Chad wanted his wife dead, and she woke up in a coughing fit and was clearly in distress, he couldv'e not gotten treatment.  All we have to go on is Chad's word that she was fine the day before and just died during the night, that he woke up to find her dead.  Maybe she died shortly after the coughing fit, since as far as what he told us, he didn't even get up with her, he just heard her coughing and went back to sleep. 

But, personally I'm suspicious of the story he's told.  And since his grown children who lived in the house aren't talking, we don't know what they knew about her distress during the night.

Also, Alex Cox autopsy report gave cause of death as blood clots in the lungs, but here's what we do know from the 9 11 call.  His wife's son found him on the floor in the bathroom, and he was not dead.  He called 911 and died quickly, so that's weird.  If she had blood clots in the lungs and so did Alex Cox, then I see that as a possible evidence of foul play that some kind of toxin might have caused it. 

[Calm]

My guess is this is hardest on the children of Lori and Chad and likely imo hardest on Colby because he has no siblings to share his burden plus it sounds like Lori wasn’t that great of a paternal figure in his life growing up and he appears to have lacked for good father figures outside Charles who iirc would have entered his life when he was around 12.  (Tammy sounds like she was a great mother.)  

He may be friends with Charles’ sons, but that has to be awkward.  I don’t know if he has any relationship with Anne Cushing, Tylee’s aunt on her dad’s side and somehow I doubt the Coxes are a great comfort at the moment.  I think it is wonderful that the Woodcocks have welcomed him, hopefully the support from them and others as well as his wife and her family will help him not feel alone.  Got to be hard given he was already dealing with a baby with health issues (his mom couldn’t even spare him more than a few hundred for medication for her sick grandchild while she was living it up in Hawaii at a high end resort with a plastic bag full of cash...just makes me ill) and then all this hanging over him for a year and a half, just getting worse as time went on.  
 

https://www.postregister.com/news/crime_courts/lori-vallows-son-speaks-out-following-discovery-of-tylee-and-j-j-s-remains/article_d047330e-00bf-55f3-90f1-4c4cd3750844.html

Quote

Colby Ryan issued his first statement regarding the deaths of his two siblings, Tylee Ryan and J.J. Vallow, through his Instagram account on Saturday...

 

[bsjkki]

19 minutes ago, Calm said:

My guess is this is hardest on the children of Lori and Chad and likely imo hardest on Colby because he has no siblings to share his burden plus it sounds like Lori wasn’t that great of a paternal figure in his life growing up and he appears to have lacked for good father figures outside Charles who iirc would have entered his life when he was around 12.  (Tammy sounds like she was a great mother.)  

He may be friends with Charles’ sons, but that has to be awkward.  I don’t know if he has any relationship with Anne Cushing, Tylee’s aunt on her dad’s side and somehow I doubt the Coxes are a great comfort at the moment.  I think it is wonderful that the Woodcocks have welcomed him, hopefully the support from them and others as well as his wife and her family will help him not feel alone.  Got to be hard given he was already dealing with a baby with health issues (his mom couldn’t even spare him more than a few hundred for medication for her sick grandchild while she was living it up in Hawaii at a high end resort with a plastic bag full of cash...just makes me ill) and then all this hanging over him for a year and a half, just getting worse as time went on.  
 

https://www.postregister.com/news/crime_courts/lori-vallows-son-speaks-out-following-discovery-of-tylee-and-j-j-s-remains/article_d047330e-00bf-55f3-90f1-4c4cd3750844.html

 

That is heart breaking.

[Calm]

It is unfortunate that this is now all public so Colby and others can’t choose who to share their struggles with and have to worry about being confronted by it at any moment except perhaps in their own home...where distraction and temporary distancing for some peace and rejuvenation may be harder to come by. 
 

But this is the nature of the beast since the family were driven to make public appeals when private and legal attempts to find the children didn’t work. 

[Calm]

I am posting this go fund me link not as a solicitation (though feel free to donate  ), but because it gives a firsthand view of Colby’s experiences dealing with constant media seeking interviews, his job or rather job loss, and safety issues as well as the other expected issues of having a mother accused of killing your siblings and a sick baby.  Most media info is just about his reactions to his case and not his personal life with its complications. 
 

https://www.gofundme.com/f/1vwzigc140

[Calm]

Daybell’s move:

https://www.ktvb.com/mobile/article/news/crime/missing-rexburg-kids/chad-daybells-attorney-says-hes-not-guilty-and-wants-a-jury-trial/277-64de57cd-474d-44e4-9cb9-7c0d9b3ab4af

If it is true as reported by some that he sat in his car for quite some time watching LE, but took off as soon as they found the remains, I don’t see how he is going to convince anyone he didn’t know they were there and was hoping they wouldn’t be found or couldn’t face being with his kids as they waited knowing the moment of exposure was coming and seeing it dawn on them what he was willing to do to them as well as those poor children and their mother. 
 

Hum....the choice of lawyer not a good look for him, but maybe he didn’t have much choice. 
 

https://www.idahopress.com/members/nampa-attorney-john-prior-sentenced-120-days-for-battery/article_ae5d8f30-2e27-11e2-9e9b-0019bb2963f4.html

Edited June 16, 2020 by Calm

[Tacenda]

20 minutes ago, Calm said:

Daybell’s move:

https://www.ktvb.com/mobile/article/news/crime/missing-rexburg-kids/chad-daybells-attorney-says-hes-not-guilty-and-wants-a-jury-trial/277-64de57cd-474d-44e4-9cb9-7c0d9b3ab4af

If it is true as reported by some that he sat in his car for quite some time watching LE, but took off as soon as they found the remains, I don’t see how he is going to convince anyone he didn’t know they were there and was hoping they wouldn’t be found or couldn’t face being with his kids as they waited knowing the moment of exposure was coming and seeing it dawn on them what he was willing to do to them as well as those poor children and their mother. 
 

Hum....the choice of lawyer not a good look for him, but maybe he didn’t have much choice. 
 

https://www.idahopress.com/members/nampa-attorney-john-prior-sentenced-120-days-for-battery/article_ae5d8f30-2e27-11e2-9e9b-0019bb2963f4.html

Calm, did you do some investigating?  😁

[Calm]

31 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Calm, did you do some investigating?  😁

Lol, just a bit.  Someone made a weird comment about his lawyer, so I checked it out.

The stuff about Daybell is off Websleuths as usual.  I never did find out what the source was for him running at that time.  There is a video of his getting nabbed by the cops, the driver appears to be quite excited on seeing he is arrested.  I gather from online comments of those who live in the area they are very, very unhappy with him now.

They flooded the town and surrounding area with ribbons for a memorial for the kids.  They are taking the deaths hard.  Going to be hard to find a jury.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Calm