bsjkki Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Calm said: It is a lovely song, but I keep thinking 'you ever read Luke?' Not something she likely forget even if she didn't get all the implications. And then there is the whole being pregnant though a virgin....that should have been a pretty big clue something different was going on. My spouse hates that song because, he always says, “Duh! Yes, she knew. Doesn’t anyone read Luke?” Drives him nuts. Haha..lol 1
Calm Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, mrmarklin said: I’ve been to Israel, and I must say I saw very few people that even came close to resembling the picture of the “real Jesus” above. The Israelis of today are from all over the world genetically speaking. The similarities between modern Jews and Jews of 2000 years ago...there, but lots of other stuff too. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301023/ “It becomes overwhelmingly clear that although Jews maintained detectable vertical genetic continuity along generations of socio-religious-cultural relationship, also intensive horizontal genetic relations were maintained both between Jewish communities and with the gentile surrounding. Thus, in spite of considerable consanguinity, there is no Jewish genotype to identify.” genetic consequences of anti Semitism: https://blogs.plos.org/dnascience/2018/11/08/the-genomic-scars-of-anti-semitism/ Edited September 5, 2019 by Calm 2
MiserereNobis Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 In my regional Catholicism (southwest New Mexico) we have had Jesus in a tortilla and Mary shining from a light bulb. So I'll give a smile and a wink for Obi Wan as Jesus. 3
RevTestament Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 8 hours ago, MiserereNobis said: In my regional Catholicism (southwest New Mexico) we have had Jesus in a tortilla and Mary shining from a light bulb. So I'll give a smile and a wink for Obi Wan as Jesus. About as accurate
Bernard Gui Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 15 hours ago, Jeanne said: Good one...humor at its best...surely a mistake.😄 So, do we laugh with or at her?
Bernard Gui Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 16 hours ago, Ahab said: The reverence of the meeting should be coupled with the message from President Hinckley which was quoted on the bulletin. We all should try to enjoy life more, not just try to endure the challenging moments. The photo, not the comment, draws unwanted and unneeded attention. Sad If it was done on purpose. 1
Jeanne Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 19 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: So, do we laugh with or at her? How about a little of both?? 😀
Amulek Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) I'm having a hard time understanding, even in the world of insta-twitter journalism that we seem to live in, how any writer could possibly think this story was newsworthy. Do click-bait journalists really just sit around all day, trolling social media to try and find posts that can be flipped into an "article" like this? Fascinating. Edited September 5, 2019 by Amulek 2
Tacenda Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 12 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Ah, the anonymous “they.” Almost as ubiquitous as the singular “they.” "They" being news outlets.
Ahab Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: The photo, not the comment, draws unwanted and unneeded attention. Sad If it was done on purpose. You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. You must do what you feel is right, of course. All good is of God and Obi Wan was a pretty good guy, at least in the Star Wars universe. Enjoy life and don't sweat the small stuff!
Scott Lloyd Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Tacenda said: "They" being news outlets. Only slightly less vague than “they.”
Thinking Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 Using celebrities to represent Church historical figures has been used before. That's obviously Tony Bennett's image being used to depict Moroni. 😁
Bernard Gui Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ahab said: You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. You must do what you feel is right, of course. All good is of God and Obi Wan was a pretty good guy, at least in the Star Wars universe. Enjoy life and don't sweat the small stuff! Yoda was arguably gooder than Obi Wan. So was Gandalf. Frodo and Samwise were the goodest of all. They made great sacrifices for each other and for the salvation of their world. As much as I love these characters, I wouldn’t put their images next to the Savior on a sacrament meeting program for a joke. Putting fictional characters at the same level as Jesus for a cheap laugh may send a wrong message to members and non-member visitors. I’m reminded of a comment by the Christian American composer Lowell Mason (hymns 100, 125, 201, 218, 268). He once said that if after a service members of the congregation came up to congratulate him on how wonderful his musical performance was, then he felt he had failed in his desire to serve and honor God. During the sacrament, how many members will be chuckling at Obi Wan on the program cover instead of renewing their covenants? Probably more than a few. Doing it on purpose seems to me an action to draw attention to oneself. We’ll have to agree to disagree, which rarely happens. Edited September 5, 2019 by Bernard Gui 3
Stargazer Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Amulek said: I'm having a hard time understanding, even in the world of insta-twitter journalism that we seem to live in, how any writer could possibly think this story was newsworthy. Do click-bait journalists really just sit around all day, trolling social media to try and find posts that can be flipped into an "article" like this? Fascinating. I'd have to say that the answer to your question is: YES. 1
Stargazer Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 19 hours ago, Tacenda said: The photo doesn't look anything like Jesus would have, too. I read an article and this passed around photo is what they predict he actually looked like. Yes, and what do "they" base this on? I'm not saying that this couldn't resemble the Savior when he was in his mortal body. I'm saying that they really have no idea, and they picked an arbitrary model based on whatever data they relied upon. One can go to the middle east and see any number of different faces. Of course, there's always admixtures from elsewhere, so examining today's population is problematic. Only if there were DNA samples available that could be reliably sourced to either Jesus or his family could "they" get any good idea of what He looked like. Fat chance of that, however. If Jesus actually looked like this portrait, I have to say it wouldn't bother me. There may be others whom it would. I do think that there are people who enjoy putting forward a non-conventional image like this specifically in order to get a rise out of people. It doesn't matter what he looked like, in my humble opinion. A black friend of mine kept a painting hung on his living room wall of a black Jesus. Didn't bother me, and in fact the image was quite handsome. 1
Bernard Gui Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, MiserereNobis said: In my regional Catholicism (southwest New Mexico) we have had Jesus in a tortilla and Mary shining from a light bulb. So I'll give a smile and a wink for Obi Wan as Jesus. When I was in Nicaragua, a lady found an image of Mary on a leaf from a palm tree in her yard. Hundreds of people went out to see it. I have a photo of it somewhere. Edited September 5, 2019 by Bernard Gui 1
Ahab Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 20 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: Yoda was arguably gooder than Obi Wan. So was Gandalf. Frodo and Samwise were the goodest of all. They made great sacrifices for each other and for the salvation of their world. As much as I love these characters, I wouldn’t put their images next to the Savior on a sacrament meeting program for a joke. Putting fictional characters at the same level as Jesus on the cover of a program for a cheap laugh may send a wrong message to members and non-member visitors. I’m reminded of a comment by the Christian American composer Lowell Mason (hymns 100, 125, 201, 218, 268). He once said that if after a service members of the congregation came up to congratulate him on how wonderful his musical performance was, then he felt he had failed in his desire to serve and honor God. During the sacrament, how many members will be chuckling at Obi Wan on the program cover instead of renewing their covenants? Probably more than a few. Doing it on purpose seems to me an action to draw attention to oneself. I get your point and respect you for it. I'm just on a different point and I think it is a good one, too. And yes, while I personally would be sitting there thinking about Obi Wan if I saw him on a bulletin cover, I would also then continue to think about what Obi Wan represents as well as what those other people on that bulletin represent as they are supposedly representative images of Jesus Christ. I would think of how all good things are of God even if it is some other person who is doing something good, too. I would contemplate quite a bit about that, and would not see it as some bad thing I had to just "endure" because nobody had actually used an actual picture of Jesus Christ, himself. 20 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: We’ll have to agree to disagree, which rarely happens. Rarely if ever. I am not one of those people who agrees to disagree and instead I think everybody should agree with me when I am in agreement with God. But you go ahead and think what you want, whatever you think. 1
Calm Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Stargazer said: If Jesus actually looked like this portrait, I have to say it wouldn't bother me. The only thing that strikes me as off if the deer in the headlight or furrowed brow or whatever (strikes me differently at different times) look. Don't usually see reconstructive pictures with emotion. Edited September 5, 2019 by Calm
Stargazer Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Calm said: The only thing that strikes me as off if the deer in the headlight or furrowed brow or whatever (strikes me differently at different times) look. Don't usually see reconstructive pictures with emotion. If they had made the model smile that might have been better. But I get the impression that they weren't trying to make the model look pleasing. Borderline grumpy or better yet, gormless, is much better. That image actually looks like he had just seen something he couldn't explain. Edited September 5, 2019 by Stargazer
Tacenda Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 48 minutes ago, Stargazer said: Yes, and what do "they" base this on? I'm not saying that this couldn't resemble the Savior when he was in his mortal body. I'm saying that they really have no idea, and they picked an arbitrary model based on whatever data they relied upon. One can go to the middle east and see any number of different faces. Of course, there's always admixtures from elsewhere, so examining today's population is problematic. Only if there were DNA samples available that could be reliably sourced to either Jesus or his family could "they" get any good idea of what He looked like. Fat chance of that, however. If Jesus actually looked like this portrait, I have to say it wouldn't bother me. There may be others whom it would. I do think that there are people who enjoy putting forward a non-conventional image like this specifically in order to get a rise out of people. It doesn't matter what he looked like, in my humble opinion. A black friend of mine kept a painting hung on his living room wall of a black Jesus. Didn't bother me, and in fact the image was quite handsome. I'm just saying that sometimes some of the LDS artists paint Jesus to be much more white than I believe he would have been, that's all.
Stargazer Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 10 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I'm just saying that sometimes some of the LDS artists paint Jesus to be much more white than I believe he would have been, that's all. I don't disagree! I understand why my black friend had a portrait of a black Jesus -- I didn't ask him, but I think it is probably because he found it easier to relate to Jesus Christ as someone who looked a bit like him. I don't see anything wrong with it, either. But those who insist against all likelihood that he looked like, say, Obi Wan Kenobi as portrayed in the Star Wars prequels, need to get a grip. Here's a good one I like that isn't Nordic at all. Looks quite Jewish, if a bit idealized: 1
Stargazer Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 This whole conversation reminded me of a couple of scenes in the John Denver/George Burns film "Oh God!"
california boy Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 20 hours ago, Tacenda said: The photo doesn't look anything like Jesus would have, too. I read an article and this passed around photo is what they predict he actually looked like. There is a painting of Christ being baptized by John the Baptist in the Los Angeles temple baptismal room. I don't know if this is Mormon folklore or not, but I was told that David O McKay once said that painting looks the most like Christ than any other painting. Of course I had to check it out the first time I was in the Los Angeles temple. The one thing I will say about the painting is Christ does not look so white as most paintings of him. Can anyone verify that David O McKay actually made such a statement?
Calm Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 Just now, california boy said: There is a painting of Christ being baptized by John the Baptist in the Los Angeles temple baptismal room. I don't know if this is Mormon folklore or not, but I was told that David O McKay once said that painting looks the most like Christ than any other painting. Of course I had to check it out the first time I was in the Los Angeles temple. The one thing I will say about the painting is Christ does not look so white as most paintings of him. Can anyone verify that David O McKay actually made such a statement? I have heard similar things said of other pictures so it sounds like a typical folktale...whether there was one that actually got recognition, don't know.
Ahab Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 57 minutes ago, Calm said: The only thing that strikes me as off if the deer in the headlight or furrowed brow or whatever (strikes me differently at different times) look. Don't usually see reconstructive pictures with emotion. Maybe that was the way he looked when he looked at the Sadducees (who were sad, you see, because they didn't believe in the resurrection). Or just anytime he looked at some people who weren't thinking or acting intelligently. As someone who experienced every emotion we have I imagine he knew what it felt like to be taken aback a bit by how some people choose to live their lives, or by what they are thinking when they aren't using all of their wits. I can also see what could be his expression of concern for their welfare.
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