Ed Smart, father of Elizabeth Smart, Announces he is gay

[Meadowchik]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

Of course not, but he may have started considering what his relationship with the Church was, started questioning it, and then doubting and now doesn’t believe or doesn’t think it is worth the effort in the future. No need to assume an affair even if he has decided that after the divorce he sees no reason not to have a romantic SS relationship.

And it comes across as gossip. 

It's interesting how one's conviction about the church can impact views generally. I was nowhere close to being as feminist as I am now when I believed in the church.

Of course, there are plenty of feminists who have very strong testimonies of the church. We're all different and our testimonies are as different as we are.

I was able to change my views about homosexuality as a believing member. It is strange how I did not allow myself to deeply question sexism, specifically not the complementarian and benevolent kind, until I was able to question the church. Somehow views about my identity and value as a woman in a role was tied to my testimony. I think I can therefore see that, likewise, one's view about their own sexual orientation can be deeply tied to their testimony. 

Maybe there is a bit of "the god of the gaps" in this when it occurs, where a person suppresses their own identity and needs because the way they believe in God compensates--or fills in the missing pieces--to some degree, or at least seems to do so. I suppose that can be connected to how it is not uncommon for people to question their sexuality, social, or political views once their religious beliefs change.

[ALarson]

12 hours ago, alter idem said:

What are the 'brethren' supposed to do about a bisexual man who marries, supposedly happily enough to have five children and then in his 60's decides to leave his wife.  In my opinion, claiming to be 'gay' is to gain sympathy, and it sure seems to be working. His family has my sympathy, he's made choices, and when those choices make his miserable, then he'll get my sympathy.

How do you know he is bisexual?  From his letter, it appears he's known he was gay for a very long time.  I wonder if Ed is one who his local leaders followed the direction from the general authorities at the time and told him he could be cured if he dated and married a woman?  That is just as likely true as him being bisexual.  

I am discouraged to see so many judgmental posts on this thread.  From stating he must have been unfaithful ("infidelity" involved), to following Satan, to now you saying he won't get any sympathy until he's "miserable" and that he's only claiming to be 'gay' (why in scare quotes?) to gain sympathy.

I think the entire family should be in our prayers and that we should love this man as we love his wife and children.  I'm sad he's leaving the church, but I will not pass judgement on him or start "gossip" (thanks Calm for your post) about him.  

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by ALarson

[Kevin Christensen]

There is the unasked question about whether sex addiction could be a factor. A key diagnostic for sex addiction is a conviction that "sex is my most important need," that is,  the first and great commandment, the center and priority of life.  A key result for those who have treated sex addiction through the recovery process is not a change in desire or orientation, but that sex can be optional, and not the most important need.  It happens that ignorance of sex addiction and recovery or denial that it exists both have the effect or removing that option from the discussion .

FWIW 

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

[JAHS]

An interview Smart had with the Salt Lake Tribune

On Friday, this nationally recognized child safety advocate spoke with The Salt Lake Tribune about his decision to now live openly as a gay man, how his coming out was portrayed in the media and how it spread and the reaction he has received.

Here are snippets of that conversation:

How he came out
“I mean, I knew that it would probably come out at some point, just because people can’t leave things alone. I did anticipate that it would happen at some time, but my intention in writing it was to try to let my friends and family know, you know my extended family ... know where things were. So, you know, I was really concerned about how the rumor mill starts," the 64-year-old said.

Smart added that he already had heard gossip about his marital status (Lois filed for divorce July 5), and he wanted to set the record straight. He was, however, discouraged by the way the story was initially framed in The Tribune and elsewhere that he made a public post on social media and then pulled it back.

“It makes it sounds like, you know, I posted on Facebook to make this statement and so forth, which, you know, I thought it would eventually come out but [making a public post], that was not my intention.”

But, he said, he didn’t feel pressured to come out, and he doesn’t feel that he was inappropriately outed by the media.

“I mean, it is what it is. And I knew that at some point in time, that would come out. I didn’t know when it would come out, and so I would rather have it come out the way that it did versus having some rumors going around, and you know the crazy way things can get twisted.”

Why he came out now
“I think that in April I started feeling like I needed to prepare something, because during Elizabeth’s ordeal, there were things said, and it wasn’t what I wanted to say, and I was not going to allow that to happen again."

(During coverage of his daughter’s 2002 abduction, two Tribune reporters sold information, some of it fabricated, to the National Enquirer, which published a story that made accusations about the Smart family, including about Ed Smart’s sexual orientation. The Enquirer later retracted the story. The two reporters were fired, and The Tribune editor at the time was replaced.)

“I had a very hard time coming to that point (of coming out). Two years ago, I was kind of coming to the realization that I wasn’t broken, that I was basically gay. And so I kept on trying to find a way of reconciling myself, and I have tried so hard. I never want to look back with regret. So I made what I feel is a very big effort to try to make sure that I won’t look back and feel like I’ve made the biggest mistake of my life.”

But, he said, it’s more than about himself. He wants others to know it’s OK to be gay.

“People say ‘well you’ve chosen it’ or ‘circumstances put you in that position,’ and I absolutely do not believe that at all. I believe that I was born that way, and that that never changed in my life. ... You know, growing up, being gay was the worst thing you could possibly have been, and I mean it’s not like what it is today,” he said.

“For those men out there that are struggling in the same position, I just know it’s so incredibly hard to come out. I was talking with someone a couple of months ago, who said to me, ‘Well, you know, Ed, the suicide rate for youth is high, but it doubles for men coming out like you,’ and I was really kind of taken aback by that, but I can certainly understand, because it’s totally disrupting what you’ve built your whole life around, and the debate about whether you should or shouldn’t, or, you know, I’ve learned that so many out there live their life, but they go out on the side, and that was something I absolutely could not do to Lois.”

On how it feels to be out
“It’s just a relief really. I no longer consider myself broken,” he said. “You know, (before coming out), I went and did basically my own reparative therapy trying to fix myself: What’s wrong with me? Why do I have these feelings? I went to the temple three or four times a week and studied and prayed and tried to fix myself.”

Where he stands on his belief in the LDS Church
Smart declined to comment more on his change in beliefs, which he referenced in his letter; however, he did offer some insights on his religious philosophy as it relates to his sexuality:

“I never identified as being gay. I mean, I realized that I had an attraction to men, but I also truly believed in the church, that you were to marry and you were to have children and that was the whole purpose of this life, and, you know, I lived that, and I tried to my best that I could.”

He added that, as far as he knows, he remains a member of the church in good standing.

How Smart’s family and friends reacted to the news
“They’ve been very kind to me. I think it was very difficult to have this kind of come out of the blue. I don’t think any of them knew I was struggling with this, so it was something they were, if you want to call it, blindsided by. I totally get that. They’ve really been very wonderful.”

 

 

 

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, california boy said:

This is seriously one of the most ignorant posts I have seen on this subject.  Total assumptions about something you obviously know NOTHING about.  How do you think gay guys end up in straight marriages?  Figure out the math.  He is 64.  I wonder who was telling him if he just got married, he would become straight?

What is overwhelmingly sad situation and one of great disappointment is the Church putting him in this situation simply because he trusted their "promise from God".  Everything I have studied about the teachings of Jesus Christ is that those teachings should be based on true eternal principles, not false promises.

You are so willing to blindly support the Church.  Perhaps he was too, and that was the beginning of this tragic story.

Agree to the bold. Ignorant, meaning, that Ed Smart didn't just decide he was gay! Storm, if you're reading, what the heck??

Edited August 17, 2019 by Tacenda

[ALarson]

24 minutes ago, JAHS said:

“People say ‘well you’ve chosen it’ or ‘circumstances put you in that position,’ and I absolutely do not believe that at all. I believe that I was born that way, and that that never changed in my life. ... You know, growing up, being gay was the worst thing you could possibly have been, and I mean it’s not like what it is today,” he said.

“For those men out there that are struggling in the same position, I just know it’s so incredibly hard to come out. I was talking with someone a couple of months ago, who said to me, ‘Well, you know, Ed, the suicide rate for youth is high, but it doubles for men coming out like you,’ and I was really kind of taken aback by that, but I can certainly understand, because it’s totally disrupting what you’ve built your whole life around, and the debate about whether you should or shouldn’t, or, you know, I’ve learned that so many out there live their life, but they go out on the side, and that was something I absolutely could not do to Lois.”

On how it feels to be out
“It’s just a relief really. I no longer consider myself broken,” he said. “You know, (before coming out), I went and did basically my own reparative therapy trying to fix myself: What’s wrong with me? Why do I have these feelings? I went to the temple three or four times a week and studied and prayed and tried to fix myself.”

Thanks for posting this JAHS.  The bolded parts hopefully will stop those here from posting what they believe must be the truth (ie: infidelity involved..."that he has had or is having an affair", that he's "decided to be gay" "to gain sympathy")  and realize it's much more complicated.  

They are all in my prayers as they continue to hopefully work through this together.  That's very difficult to do in private, but for it to be so public even makes this more painful for all involved, IMO.

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by ALarson

[jpv]

On 8/16/2019 at 8:34 AM, HappyJackWagon said:

I wonder, at what point will the church recognize it has a problem.

It's not just losing the peripheral, undedicated, non-committed members. It is losing tremendous strength and leadership. The LGBT issue is just one of many issues forcing many to make the hard decision to separate from the church.

I wish the Smarts all the best. It must be a very challenging time.

Time will tell which strategy plays out:

RLDS/CoC or LDS.

[Bernard Gui]

25 minutes ago, JAHS said:

An interview Smart had with the Salt Lake Tribune

On Friday, this nationally recognized child safety advocate spoke with The Salt Lake Tribune about his decision to now live openly as a gay man, how his coming out was portrayed in the media and how it spread and the reaction he has received.

Here are snippets of that conversation:

How he came out
“I mean, I knew that it would probably come out at some point, just because people can’t leave things alone. I did anticipate that it would happen at some time, but my intention in writing it was to try to let my friends and family know, you know my extended family ... know where things were. So, you know, I was really concerned about how the rumor mill starts," the 64-year-old said.

Smart added that he already had heard gossip about his marital status (Lois filed for divorce July 5), and he wanted to set the record straight. He was, however, discouraged by the way the story was initially framed in The Tribune and elsewhere that he made a public post on social media and then pulled it back.

“It makes it sounds like, you know, I posted on Facebook to make this statement and so forth, which, you know, I thought it would eventually come out but [making a public post], that was not my intention.”

But, he said, he didn’t feel pressured to come out, and he doesn’t feel that he was inappropriately outed by the media.

“I mean, it is what it is. And I knew that at some point in time, that would come out. I didn’t know when it would come out, and so I would rather have it come out the way that it did versus having some rumors going around, and you know the crazy way things can get twisted.”

Why he came out now
“I think that in April I started feeling like I needed to prepare something, because during Elizabeth’s ordeal, there were things said, and it wasn’t what I wanted to say, and I was not going to allow that to happen again."

(During coverage of his daughter’s 2002 abduction, two Tribune reporters sold information, some of it fabricated, to the National Enquirer, which published a story that made accusations about the Smart family, including about Ed Smart’s sexual orientation. The Enquirer later retracted the story. The two reporters were fired, and The Tribune editor at the time was replaced.)

“I had a very hard time coming to that point (of coming out). Two years ago, I was kind of coming to the realization that I wasn’t broken, that I was basically gay. And so I kept on trying to find a way of reconciling myself, and I have tried so hard. I never want to look back with regret. So I made what I feel is a very big effort to try to make sure that I won’t look back and feel like I’ve made the biggest mistake of my life.”

But, he said, it’s more than about himself. He wants others to know it’s OK to be gay.

“People say ‘well you’ve chosen it’ or ‘circumstances put you in that position,’ and I absolutely do not believe that at all. I believe that I was born that way, and that that never changed in my life. ... You know, growing up, being gay was the worst thing you could possibly have been, and I mean it’s not like what it is today,” he said.

“For those men out there that are struggling in the same position, I just know it’s so incredibly hard to come out. I was talking with someone a couple of months ago, who said to me, ‘Well, you know, Ed, the suicide rate for youth is high, but it doubles for men coming out like you,’ and I was really kind of taken aback by that, but I can certainly understand, because it’s totally disrupting what you’ve built your whole life around, and the debate about whether you should or shouldn’t, or, you know, I’ve learned that so many out there live their life, but they go out on the side, and that was something I absolutely could not do to Lois.”

On how it feels to be out
“It’s just a relief really. I no longer consider myself broken,” he said. “You know, (before coming out), I went and did basically my own reparative therapy trying to fix myself: What’s wrong with me? Why do I have these feelings? I went to the temple three or four times a week and studied and prayed and tried to fix myself.”

Where he stands on his belief in the LDS Church
Smart declined to comment more on his change in beliefs, which he referenced in his letter; however, he did offer some insights on his religious philosophy as it relates to his sexuality:

“I never identified as being gay. I mean, I realized that I had an attraction to men, but I also truly believed in the church, that you were to marry and you were to have children and that was the whole purpose of this life, and, you know, I lived that, and I tried to my best that I could.”

He added that, as far as he knows, he remains a member of the church in good standing.

How Smart’s family and friends reacted to the news
“They’ve been very kind to me. I think it was very difficult to have this kind of come out of the blue. I don’t think any of them knew I was struggling with this, so it was something they were, if you want to call it, blindsided by. I totally get that. They’ve really been very wonderful.”

 

Having seen several friends and relatives go through this particular situation and some similar things, I have some sense how devastating it is to all who are involved involved. Deception and the feelings of betrayal take a huge toll. I hope they find peace from all they have suffered. 

[ALarson]

3 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Deception and the feelings of betrayal take a huge toll.

Who do you believe deceived or was involved with betrayal here?  Just curious....

4 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I hope they find peace from all they have suffered. 

Me too.....I agree.

[tkv]

Quote

I wonder who was telling him if he just got married, he would become straight?

No support for this assumption. He probably was just telling himself.

Interesting that Lois filed for divorce on July 5.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Kevin Christensen said:

There is the unasked question about whether sex addiction could be a factor. A key diagnostic for sex addiction is a conviction that "sex is my most important need," that is,  the first and great commandment, the center and priority of life.  A key result for those who have treated sex addiction through the recovery process is not a change in desire or orientation, but that sex can be optional, and not the most important need.  It happens that ignorance of sex addiction and recovery or denial that it exists both have the effect or removing that option from the discussion .

FWIW 

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

Kevin, imagine if you were told to marry a man and have a family, but deep down in your soul, you knew you were to be with a woman, but society/your church frowned on it, not only frowned upon it but at one time you'd go to prison or hell for it etc., then would it still be about addiction to sex? Because if it was all about the sex part, I doubt someone like Ed would have held on for so long. In fact a lot of LDS men with these addictions have affairs, but like he mentions in the interview, he would never do that to Lois. 

Think about it, as well as others on here that appear not to understand, Ed is pretty much sacrificing himself, to live how he thought God wanted and the rest of the world wanted him to. He felt like he was broken, and something was horribly wrong with him. Another of his statements in the interview with the trib he mentioned going to the temple 3 or 4 times a week to somehow fix himself. But then he realized that is how the Lord wants him to be, to be how he was born. I guess it's going to take more time with those on this board to understand.

[Bernard Gui]

2 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Who do you believe deceived or was involved with betrayal here?  Just curious....

Me too.....I agree.

I don’t know the Smarts, but I do know my relatives and friends. The deceiver was the spouse who lived the double life, in one case only for a few years, but in others over decades. All involved children. It devastated them all. They have had an awful journey to find some peace.

[ALarson]

11 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I don’t know the Smarts, but I do know my relatives and friends. The deceiver was the spouse who lived the double life, in one case only for a few years, but in others over decades. All involved children. It devastated them all. They have had an awful journey to find some peace.

Oh...gotcha.  I thought you were stating this is what took place with Ed Smart and Lois.  We definitely do not know if that's the case here.  She may have been aware that he was gay when they married or early in their marriage.  It does sound like it's been a journey of discovery for them both. 

Also, it appears that Ed is doing the honorable thing here and refusing to live a "double life" as you describe above.  I admire him for that....but am sad he feels he needs to leave the church.   I'm sure it's complicated.....

Edited August 17, 2019 by ALarson

[california boy]

2 hours ago, Kevin Christensen said:

There is the unasked question about whether sex addiction could be a factor. A key diagnostic for sex addiction is a conviction that "sex is my most important need," that is,  the first and great commandment, the center and priority of life.  A key result for those who have treated sex addiction through the recovery process is not a change in desire or orientation, but that sex can be optional, and not the most important need.  It happens that ignorance of sex addiction and recovery or denial that it exists both have the effect or removing that option from the discussion .

FWIW 

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

Oh My Gosh.  Can members of the Church realize that being gay is not about sex.  How does this sound to you.  The only reason you married your wife was because you are a sex addict.  Now tell me.  What is the difference from what you PROJECTED and speculated about Bro Smart.  It is this kind of stuff that goes on yet people honestly believe the church is a perfectly safe place for gays to be a part of.

I totally understand why he is leaving the Church.  I did the same thing and I am in no way a sex addict.  Sorry to disappoint you.

Quote

“I mean, I knew that it would probably come out at some point, just because people can’t leave things alone. I did anticipate that it would happen at some time, but my intention in writing it was to try to let my friends and family know, you know my extended family ... know where things were. So, you know, I was really concerned about how the rumor mill starts," the 64-year-old said.

gossip, gossip, gossip.  He really nailed it didn't he.  Now he is a sex addict and gay.

Edited August 17, 2019 by california boy

[ALarson]

13 hours ago, longview said:

Bro. Smart not only slimed his wife he also turned against God.  He has failed the test.

Ugh 😒

"Slimed his wife"?  

Where did he do that....do you have a quote?

Edited August 17, 2019 by ALarson

[rodheadlee]

On 8/16/2019 at 8:37 AM, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Your Aunt’s path was difficult, but not comparable. Being gay means, no flirting dating and no hope for relationship in this life. If you are lucky, in the eternities God will fix part of what you view core to yourself (see Doug Febrezio’s interview with Elder Todd Christoffeeson’s gay brother), and you will be partnered in the eternities. 

 

I think you are wrong. I have been celibate for over 10 years due to physical problems with my spouse. There can be no flirting or hope for a physical relationship until the healing of the resurrection. 

I think each of us thinks our own path is the most difficult and painful.

[california boy]

We have 22 pages on Inclusiveness and gay children of God thread.  After reading this reaction from members of the Church over Ed Smart, and actually every other thread on "the gays" does anyone really thing there is even a remote possibility of inclusiveness happening?  

Whenever the discussion about anything gay comes up, the first response is The Church is not going to change its position on the law of chastity.  That is probably true.  But that is not the only thing that has to change in the Church. IMO, the Church is a long ways away from inclusiveness whether it ever changes its position on gay marriage or not.  He is gay.  He probably is a sex addict.  He probably had an affair.  He probably is bisexual.  He just decided to be gay after 40 years of marriage.  Satan deceived him.  He slimed his wife.  He turned against God.  He failed the test. 

I can't imagine why he announced he was leaving the Church in the same announcement.  Do you think that would be such a difficult thing to do if you are gay?  Personally, I knew that coming out also meant leaving the Church.  I think Ed Smart realized that as well.

Edited August 17, 2019 by california boy

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I fear this may not be well received, but I feel I must speak the truth in these comments. I am a very close friend of one of the members of the extended “Smart Family”, 40+ years now. So my heart, my love, and compassion, goes out to the entire family. I know the horror that Elizabeth went through, and the the stress that the family went through. My first fear, is that Elizabeth who has become a spokeswoman for so many women, and doing so much for their cause, will now have too much of her time taken up with dealing with questions about her Father. She loves him greatly as she should, but this will put another sexual issue, into a already sexually charged issue, that the harsh will use to drown out the issue she speaks too. I pray that God will give her the strength to deal with both, and the “grace”, to champion the case she speaks for, and the pressure of what those in the media, who is seldom kind, and often crass. 

In addition, I pray that Brother Smart, has always honored his marital vows, as I am sure his wife has. If not, this might be why he says he does not see a place for himself in the Church. Neither divorce, nor just being Gay, is not a reason to leave the Church, unless he has been unfaithful to his wife. If he has not been unfaithful, then there is no reason for him to leave or be disciplined for any reason. When it comes to men, we all struggle with issues concerning sexual desires. For the heterosexuals, we all struggle with attraction to other women, it is just how we are wired. I have, and I am assured that all men have prayed and struggled with lustful thoughts, that flood our minds, at times. I have been married for 43+ years, and while serving in the military, I have had long separations from my wife and family. I have often prayed to Heavenly Father, during my marriage (especially when much younger) that he would just cause every other woman than my wife, to just be completely unattractive to me. In my eight years in the Army, I spent at least two or more years away from my wife. Many other married soldiers I served with, even some good men, gave into that temptation, men who tried, and sadly failed. Sad thing is, under the UMCJ, “Uniform Code of Military Justice”, adultry is a violation that can lead to “Court Marshal”. So, the Church is not the only organization that forbids such behavior, as adultery is not, I repeat, “is not”, a victimless crime. Such behavior by my biological father, is living proof that there are always victims, causing my family to be homeless for a time, lived in shack, until the waiting for public housing. 

Maybe due to my childhood, being unfaithful to one’s husband or wife, was simply never and option. Once I became a husband and a father, ALL THINGS”, became secondary. I became a Husband and Father on the same day, because my wife, already had a one year old daughter, due to a man (18) could not, would not, be faithful, and beat her. So when I said, “I Do”, I did put any and all desires on the back burner. Brother Smart, is a 64 year old Husband and Father, of five children. So (to me) that is the truth that should be his first and foremost concern. So vary often, many talk about “being true, being honest to one’s self”, that whatever people do, between “contenting adults”, is no one’s business. Having come from a broken home, but thankfully my Mother met and married a wonderful man, who gave us all his name. Besides my own personal experience of betrayal, as a Police Officer, I have seen up close and personal the tragedy that can and often does ruin many lives. I have seen the broken families, the shattered lives, and even the deaths, associated with persons who choose to make bad decisions, while giving in to their “desires”, leaving their families, and lives in shambles. I have even had to bury friends, and family as a result of placing “carnal desires”, above all else. I certainly don’t know what goes on in the lives of other people, and their marriages, but have so often been in the front or second row, to watch too many tragedies unfolding. I don’t know, I guess knowing members of Brother and Sister Smart’s Family, so closely, I am heartbroken for all, and devastated. I pray for them all, especially Brother Smart, but am I alone with the idea that Wife, Children, Grandchildren, should come before all else? Am I just too idealistic, to old to understand?  

[california boy]

20 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

I think you are wrong. I have been celibate for over 10 years due to physical problems with my spouse. There can be no flirting or hope for a physical relationship until the healing of the resurrection. 

I think each of us thinks our own path is the most difficult and painful.

BUT YOU HAVE A WIFE.  Isn't that far more important than sex?  Is it at all possible that someone who is gay wants companionship with someone they love?  I swear church members are obsessed with sex as being the great motivator for having a relationship.  

Let's rewind a bit.  Let's start with the very first time you saw your future wife.  Think about what that was like.  That smile.  The twinkle in her eye.  How exciting it was.  Certainly something you didn't feel ashamed about.  Think about all that lead up to your marriage.  Take away every single kiss you have ever had in your life.  Every hug you ever received from someone who loves you.  Every special dinner that goes on into the night planning and dreaming together about the future.  Think about the family you created, even if it was just the two of you.  Now take ALL of that away.  Think about how your life would have been.  

And think about belonging to a church that caused all of that emptiness to come into your life because its leaders think they know exactly how God feels about gay marriage. So sure they are right, they are willing to sacrifice the plan of any happiness for someone who is gay. 

 

[poptart]

On 8/16/2019 at 8:37 AM, smac97 said:

If he didn't intend it to go public, he should not have published it on Facebook. 

Did the FB post have any request for its readers to keep it private?  (Even then, keeping the letter private would have only been a courtesy, I think, not a requirement.)

I don't think permission would be required.  It's not like he can make an "invasion of privacy" claim.

In any event, this story is being addressed by Newser.com, the Salt Lake Tribune, Towleroad.com, Heavy.com, PinkNews.co.uk, DailyMail.co.uk, and Fox 13 News (which reference the D News item), and also by NBC News,  TMZ, Today.com, USA Today, RadarOnline.com, GephartDaily.com (which do not reference D News).

Hard to say.

His daughter's response was apt: 

Thanks,

-Smac

Actually know people in that boat, they posted something on facebook a while ago now it's biting them. 

[ALarson]

11 minutes ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Neither divorce, nor just being Gay, is not a reason to leave the Church, unless he has been unfaithful to his wife.

Really?

So, do you believe he is he lying when he stated this below?

Quote

I’ve learned that so many out there live their life, but they go out on the side, and that was something I absolutely could not do to Lois.”

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by ALarson

[california boy]

10 minutes ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

I fear this may not be well received, but I feel I must speak the truth in these comments. I am a very close friend of one of the members of the extended “Smart Family”, 40+ years now. So my heart, my love, and compassion, goes out to the entire family. I know the horror that Elizabeth went through, and the the stress that the family went through. My first fear, is that Elizabeth who has become a spokeswoman for so many women, and doing so much for their cause, will now have too much of her time taken up with dealing with questions about her Father. She loves him greatly as she should, but this will put another sexual issue, into a already sexually charged issue, that the harsh will use to drown out the issue she speaks too. I pray that God will give her the strength to deal with both, and the “grace”, to champion the case she speaks for, and the pressure of what those in the media, who is seldom kind, and often crass. 

In addition, I pray that Brother Smart, has always honored his marital vows, as I am sure his wife has. If not, this might be why he says he does not see a place for himself in the Church. Neither divorce, nor just being Gay, is not a reason to leave the Church, unless he has been unfaithful to his wife. If he has not been unfaithful, then there is no reason for him to leave or be disciplined for any reason. When it comes to men, we all struggle with issues concerning sexual desires. For the heterosexuals, we all struggle with attraction to other women, it is just how we are wired. I have, and I am assured that all men have prayed and struggled with lustful thoughts, that flood our minds, at times. I have been married for 43+ years, and while serving in the military, I have had long separations from my wife and family. I have often prayed to Heavenly Father, during my marriage (especially when much younger) that he would just cause every other woman than my wife, to just be completely unattractive to me. In my eight years in the Army, I spent at least two or more years away from my wife. Many other married soldiers I served with, even some good men, gave into that temptation, men who tried, and sadly failed. Sad thing is, under the UMCJ, “Uniform Code of Military Justice”, adultry is a violation that can lead to “Court Marshal”. So, the Church is not the only organization that forbids such behavior, as adultery is not, I repeat, “is not”, a victimless crime. Such behavior by my biological father, is living proof that there are always victims, causing my family to be homeless for a time, lived in shack, until the waiting for public housing. 

Maybe due to my childhood, being unfaithful to one’s husband or wife, was simply never and option. Once I became a husband and a father, ALL THINGS”, became secondary. I became a Husband and Father on the same day, because my wife, already had a one year old daughter, due to a man (18) could not, would not, be faithful, and beat her. So when I said, “I Do”, I did put any and all desires on the back burner. Brother Smart, is a 64 year old Husband and Father, of five children. So (to me) that is the truth that should be his first and foremost concern. So vary often, many talk about “being true, being honest to one’s self”, that whatever people do, between “contenting adults”, is no one’s business. Having come from a broken home, but thankfully my Mother met and married a wonderful man, who gave us all his name. Besides my own personal experience of betrayal, as a Police Officer, I have seen up close and personal the tragedy that can and often does ruin many lives. I have seen the broken families, the shattered lives, and even the deaths, associated with persons who choose to make bad decisions, while giving in to their “desires”, leaving their families, and lives in shambles. I have even had to bury friends, and family as a result of placing “carnal desires”, above all else. I certainly don’t know what goes on in the lives of other people, and their marriages, but have so often been in the front or second row, to watch too many tragedies unfolding. I don’t know, I guess knowing members of Brother and Sister Smart’s Family, so closely, I am heartbroken for all, and devastated. I pray for them all, especially Brother Smart, but am I alone with the idea that Wife, Children, Grandchildren, should come before all else? Am I just too idealistic, to old to understand?  

I am so interest to hear what members of the Church think of your post.

[rodheadlee]

9 minutes ago, california boy said:

BUT YOU HAVE A WIFE.  Isn't that far more important than sex?  Is it at all possible that someone who is gay wants companionship with someone they love?  I swear church members are obsessed with sex as being the great motivator for having a relationship.  

Let's rewind a bit.  Let's start with the very first time you saw your future wife.  Think about what that was like.  That smile.  The twinkle in her eye.  How exciting it was.  Certainly something you didn't feel ashamed about.  Think about all that lead up to your marriage.  Take away every single kiss you have ever had in your life.  Every hug you ever received from someone who loves you.  Every special dinner that goes on into the night planning and dreaming together about the future.  Think about the family you created, even if it was just the two of you.  Now take ALL of that away.  Think about how your life would have been.  

And think about belonging to a church that caused all of that emptiness to come into your life because its leaders think they know exactly how God feels about gay marriage. So sure they are right, they are willing to sacrifice the plan of any happiness for someone who is gay. 

 

Everything you say is true. These things keep me somewhat focused.  But there can still be no flirting or hope of a physical relationship until after the resurrection and healing. 

[ksfisher]

10 hours ago, ttribe said:

I plainly said that if it works for you, stick with it.  I'm not interested in messing with your worldview.

Great, don’t mess with my worldview.  I am interested to know how you believe God would communicate a change in the law of chastity to His children.

[Tacenda]

46 minutes ago, california boy said:

I am so interest to hear what members of the Church think of your post.

Once again, it's all about sex with members of this church. I hope to high heaven Papa will speak with his gay daughter about his post. I can't understand why they won't understand that it is in your DNA to love the same sex. They cannot seem to understand it at all. 

ETA: Nehor, I can't respond to your comment that it's not in California Boy's DNA, because I used all of my allowed posts for now. Here is a study: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26572-largest-study-of-gay-brothers-homes-in-on-gay-genes/

I'm sure there are more to correlate, maybe I'll post them as I see them.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Tacenda