ALarson Posted August 16, 2019 Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) From an article in the Deseret News: https://www.deseret.com/2019/8/15/20807894/ed-smart-father-of-elizabeth-smart-announces-he-is-gay Quote In Facebook message, missing persons advocate says it’s “one of the hardest letters I’ve ever written.” .... “Lois has been a loyal wife, and extraordinary mother, who has had to endure an impossible part of this journey. I deeply regret the excruciating pain this has caused her. Hurting her was never my intent. While our marriage will end, my love for Lois and everyone in my family is eternal,” he wrote. Third District Court records show Lois Smart filed for divorce July 5. The court seals divorce filings. .... Ed Smart said that many people have asked him what coming out means for his relationship with the church, which he said has been a major part of his life and a “great blessing.” He said it’s very important to acknowledge the Lord’s hand in his life, and to do otherwise would be to deny the miracles he’s witnessed. “My faith is strong, and unwavering, however, after considerable study, prayer and pondering I have come to a change in my beliefs. It is because of this change, that I can finally acknowledge and accept my orientation. Had I not had a change in my beliefs, I would have likely remained closeted the rest of my life,” he wrote. “As an openly gay man, the church is not a place where I find solace any longer, “ Smart wrote. “It is not my responsibility to tell the church, its members or its leadership what to believe about the rightness or wrongness of being LGBTQ.” But it appears he did not intend for this to go public: https://fox13now.com/2019/08/15/ed-smart-father-of-elizabeth-smart-comes-out-as-gay/?fbclid=IwAR3EtvNKr-aqRHeyAQwoPND8g6zeI4jgbvIpz1FWUJ9E9rrFAqY3Q5czV2M Quote Ed Smart, father of Elizabeth Smart, comes out as gay; says Facebook post was meant to be private Ed Smart, the father of kidnapping survivor Elizabeth Smart, confirmed to FOX 13 that he came out as gay in a Facebook post — which was quickly removed Thursday because it was intended for friends and family only. Ed Smart said he never intended for the post to be public. So, did the Deseret News have his permission to publish the original article quoting his Facebook post? I can't imagine he believed this news wouldn't be made public in some manner (announcing he's gay and is leaving the church)....but maybe he wanted it to remain private as long as possible? Edited August 16, 2019 by ALarson
JLHPROF Posted August 16, 2019 Posted August 16, 2019 No surprise here. But I feel for the family being split apart by this. 3
Amulek Posted August 16, 2019 Posted August 16, 2019 27 minutes ago, ALarson said: So, did the Deseret News have his permission to publish the original article quoting his Facebook post? Whether or not they sought is permission is secondary to the underlying question: did they need to obtain his permission in the first place? And the answer to that question is invariably "no." For a limited-public figure like Ed Smart, a newspaper wouldn't need his permission to report on his public statements. And despite what one may want or intend, comments made in a public forum - Facebook specifically, or the internet, more broadly - are open for public use, criticism, discussion, etc. 3
ALarson Posted August 16, 2019 Author Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Amulek said: Whether or not they sought is permission is secondary to the underlying question: did they need to obtain his permission in the first place? And the answer to that question is invariably "no." Well, you left off the rest of my quote 😉 50 minutes ago, ALarson said: I can't imagine he believed this news wouldn't be made public in some manner (announcing he's gay and is leaving the church)....but maybe he wanted it to remain private as long as possible? I would hope even if they had a right to publish quotes from his Facebook post (he wrote for family and friends), they would have honored his privacy and IF he requested they not publish any of his post (Facebook), they would have honored that as well. But, maybe they did get his permission (although reading the followup article, it appears he did not want it announced at least yet...). Maybe he should be asking which one of his friends (or family) shared his post? Either way, it's public now....and I have to believe he knew it would become public information eventually. It's too bad that it appears he's leaving the church as well. Edited August 16, 2019 by ALarson
HappyJackWagon Posted August 16, 2019 Posted August 16, 2019 I wonder, at what point will the church recognize it has a problem. It's not just losing the peripheral, undedicated, non-committed members. It is losing tremendous strength and leadership. The LGBT issue is just one of many issues forcing many to make the hard decision to separate from the church. I wish the Smarts all the best. It must be a very challenging time. 4
Tacenda Posted August 16, 2019 Posted August 16, 2019 If the Deseret News broke the news like that, they've lost my respect, wholly.
Popular Post smac97 Posted August 16, 2019 Popular Post Posted August 16, 2019 42 minutes ago, ALarson said: From an article in the Deseret News: https://www.deseret.com/2019/8/15/20807894/ed-smart-father-of-elizabeth-smart-announces-he-is-gay But it appears he did not intend for this to go public: https://fox13now.com/2019/08/15/ed-smart-father-of-elizabeth-smart-comes-out-as-gay/?fbclid=IwAR3EtvNKr-aqRHeyAQwoPND8g6zeI4jgbvIpz1FWUJ9E9rrFAqY3Q5czV2M If he didn't intend it to go public, he should not have published it on Facebook. Did the FB post have any request for its readers to keep it private? (Even then, keeping the letter private would have only been a courtesy, I think, not a requirement.) 42 minutes ago, ALarson said: So, did the Deseret News have his permission to publish the original article quoting his Facebook post? I don't think permission would be required. It's not like he can make an "invasion of privacy" claim. In any event, this story is being addressed by Newser.com, the Salt Lake Tribune, Towleroad.com, Heavy.com, PinkNews.co.uk, DailyMail.co.uk, and Fox 13 News (which reference the D News item), and also by NBC News, TMZ, Today.com, USA Today, RadarOnline.com, GephartDaily.com (which do not reference D News). 42 minutes ago, ALarson said: I can't imagine he believed this news wouldn't be made public in some manner (announcing he's gay and is leaving the church)....but maybe he wanted it to remain private as long as possible? Hard to say. His daughter's response was apt: Quote “My parents taught me as a young child that they would love me unconditionally no matter what happened,” Smart said. “While I am deeply saddened by their separation, nothing could change my love and admiration for them both. Their decisions are very personal. As such, I will not pass judgment and rather am focusing on loving and supporting them and the other members of my family.” Thanks, -Smac 10
ALarson Posted August 16, 2019 Author Posted August 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, smac97 said: If he didn't intend it to go public, he should not have published it on Facebook. Did the FB post have any request for its readers to keep it private? (Even then, keeping the letter private would have only been a courtesy, I think, not a requirement.) I don't think permission would be required. It's not like he can make an "invasion of privacy" claim. Which is why I stated this: 16 minutes ago, ALarson said: I would hope even if they had a right to publish quotes from his Facebook post (he wrote for family and friends), they would have honored his privacy and IF he requested they not publish any of his post (Facebook), they would have honored that as well. But, maybe they did get his permission (although reading the followup article, it appears he did not want it announced at least yet...). Maybe he should be asking which one of his friends (or family) shared his post? Either way, it's public now....and I have to believe he knew it would become public information eventually. I feel bad for him and for his family....I'm sure this is a very difficult time for them all and my prayers are with them. 4
Popular Post MustardSeed Posted August 16, 2019 Popular Post Posted August 16, 2019 My heart aches for his wife. 7
ALarson Posted August 16, 2019 Author Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, smac97 said: His daughter's response was apt: Quote “My parents taught me as a young child that they would love me unconditionally no matter what happened,” Smart said. “While I am deeply saddened by their separation, nothing could change my love and admiration for them both. Their decisions are very personal. As such, I will not pass judgment and rather am focusing on loving and supporting them and the other members of my family.” I love her response and how she did not say anything about being saddened that her Father is gay....but focused on her parents and their separation. Maybe she will comment on that further (him being gay), but I have to believe she's known for some time. Edited August 16, 2019 by ALarson 2
MustardSeed Posted August 16, 2019 Posted August 16, 2019 I think, how difficult to be a public figure such as Elizabeth under such circumstance. There is the public statement that must be polished, then there is all the human reaction and feeling that must be overwhelming. 2
SeekingUnderstanding Posted August 16, 2019 Posted August 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: My heart aches for his wife. My heart aches for both of them! I posted this in the other thread, but if you haven’t read this you should. It’s Lilly Weed’s response to statements like this: http://joshweed.com/dear-family-and-friends-a-letter-about-my-divorce-written-on-my-16th-wedding-anniversary-by-lolly/ “ So, Lolly, do you think Josh is a selfish, rotten b******? (Please listen to this, because the answer is very important to me.) The answer is no. I don’t think that even a little tiny bit. Josh is the father of my amazing girls. Josh is the best friend I have ever known and he continues to be. Josh is not the villain and I am not his victim. If anything, we are both victims of misguided ideals and incorrect cultural beliefs. Josh is as much a victim as I am. In fact, he is more of a victim that I am. “ “And yet, the way people are responding to our divorce is proof that he is much more the victim of this set-up than I am. Who is everyone instantly blaming? The gay guy. Who does everyone try to support and run to the aid of? The straight spouse. I’d ask you all to consider, why is that the most common response?” “In fact, I’d say Josh needs your love more than I do. I automatically receive sympathy when people hear about our situation and he receives judgment. Please love him. If you know him, believe me when I say he’s still the same Josh you have always known and loved. I promise. In fact, he’s even better.” 3
MustardSeed Posted August 16, 2019 Posted August 16, 2019 Yes I’m extremely familiar with the Weeds. Lolly is one of a kind. 1
Popular Post smac97 Posted August 16, 2019 Popular Post Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) 51 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: I wonder, at what point will the church recognize it has a problem. With the Law of Chastity? I'm not sure I'd characterize this as a problem with the doctrine. Quote It's not just losing the peripheral, undedicated, non-committed members. It is losing tremendous strength and leadership. Alas, yes. But again, I don't think this is attributable to the doctrine, or even the Church's presentation/characterization of it. I think the Church has gone about as far as it can regarding the Law of Chastity and accommodating those who struggle with it. Quote The LGBT issue is just one of many issues forcing many to make the hard decision to separate from the church. I think most of these issues are, as Elder Corbridge put it, "secondary questions." Secondary doesn't mean unimportant, or trivial, or contrived (though I have seen plenty of grievances against the Church which do fit these descriptors). In the end, the decision to stay or leave the Church, and the Gospel it houses, is one of faith. And priorities. Loss of the former will understandably and deeply affect the latter. Quote I wish the Smarts all the best. It must be a very challenging time. Same here. Thanks, -Smac Edited August 16, 2019 by smac97 7
smac97 Posted August 16, 2019 Posted August 16, 2019 32 minutes ago, Tacenda said: If the Deseret News broke the news like that, they've lost my respect, wholly. Could you explain this? What if the Trib had broke this story? Thanks, -Smac 3
provoman Posted August 16, 2019 Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) nothing to see here Edited August 16, 2019 by provoman
JAHS Posted August 16, 2019 Posted August 16, 2019 34 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: I wonder, at what point will the church recognize it has a problem. It's not just losing the peripheral, undedicated, non-committed members. It is losing tremendous strength and leadership. The LGBT issue is just one of many issues forcing many to make the hard decision to separate from the church. I wish the Smarts all the best. It must be a very challenging time. Hard to say whose problem it really is. I have known very dedicated gay members of the church who hold temple recommends and remain celibate. But that has got to be a very hard thing to do. 3
Amulek Posted August 16, 2019 Posted August 16, 2019 33 minutes ago, ALarson said: I would hope even if they had a right to publish quotes from his Facebook post (he wrote for family and friends), they would have honored his privacy and IF he requested they not publish any of his post (Facebook), they would have honored that as well. But, maybe they did get his permission (although reading the followup article, it appears he did not want it announced at least yet...). Maybe he should be asking which one of his friends (or family) shared his post? I guess it depends on how one reads the article. I read it as meaning that he mistakenly used the wrong audience selection when he published his post and ended up posting it as a Public message rather than posting it as a message which was only accessible to his Friends (or custom) list. That is how the public media outlets were able to pick up the story - because it was on his public Facebook page, not necessarily because it was a private message that someone passed on to the media. So, if you were a newspaper outlet, and someone posted a public statement in a public forum, would you even bother to contact them about it in the first place? I tend to think not. You would treat it like any other public social media statement from any other public / limited-public figure. Quote Either way, it's public now....and I have to believe he knew it would become public information eventually. It's too bad that it appears he's leaving the church as well. I agree. 1
MustardSeed Posted August 16, 2019 Posted August 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, JAHS said: Hard to say whose problem it really is. I have known very dedicated gay members of the church who hold temple recommends and remain celibate. But that has got to be a very hard thing to do. I wonder, is it equally hard for unmarried people to remain celibate and faithful? The minute I read your empathy post I thought of my 80 year old aunt- never married. And I fully expect she has never had a sexual experience in her entire life. I don’t know what came first, her weirdness or her celibacy. I say that honestly. 1
JAHS Posted August 16, 2019 Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, ALarson said: From an article in the Deseret News: https://www.deseret.com/2019/8/15/20807894/ed-smart-father-of-elizabeth-smart-announces-he-is-gay But it appears he did not intend for this to go public: https://fox13now.com/2019/08/15/ed-smart-father-of-elizabeth-smart-comes-out-as-gay/?fbclid=IwAR3EtvNKr-aqRHeyAQwoPND8g6zeI4jgbvIpz1FWUJ9E9rrFAqY3Q5czV2M So, did the Deseret News have his permission to publish the original article quoting his Facebook post? I can't imagine he believed this news wouldn't be made public in some manner (announcing he's gay and is leaving the church)....but maybe he wanted it to remain private as long as possible? I posted about this in the News section last night because it was news. Maybe these threads need to be combined by the Mods. Edited August 16, 2019 by JAHS
ALarson Posted August 16, 2019 Author Posted August 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, provoman said: nothing to see here I doubt that's how the Smart family feels. "Nothing"? But I do hope that their privacy will be respected now that people are aware of what they are going through. It's got to be very difficult to go through something like this even privately, but the publicity surrounding it has to make it even more painful for them, IMO.
smac97 Posted August 16, 2019 Posted August 16, 2019 28 minutes ago, ALarson said: Which is why I stated this: Quote I would hope even if they had a right to publish quotes from his Facebook post (he wrote for family and friends), they would have honored his privacy and IF he requested they not publish any of his post (Facebook), they would have honored that as well. I'm not sure that news outlets should base their editorial decisions on individual preferences for privacy. Nevertheless, you may have a point. Upon further consideration, I am not sure how newsworthy this story is. I've previously criticized the Trib for publishing not-very-newsworthy stories as news (pertaining to the Church and/or its members): Quote A letter to the Trib's editor: Quote Lately, I’m having a difficult time figuring out if I’m receiving the right newspaper. I’m sure I’m not alone in getting extremely tired of seeing all the LDS-themed stories taking up so much of the front page of The Trib. Last Sunday was no exception, with fully the entire front page and four of the first section’s 10 pages about FLDS girls marrying, and a woman being thrown out of BYU-Idaho. If the plan is to attract more LDS readers, it’s apparently having the opposite result, based on letters from people canceling their subscriptions. I’m getting very close. You’re not going to attract LDS to The Trib — you’re just pushing away us gentiles. I’m sure I speak for many in asking you to go back to printing real news — especially on the front page. We’re really not that interested in reading all the Mormon stories — we read The Trib to avoid them for a while. If it’s important, fine — but most of the stories aren’t. If we wanted to read about those things, we’d subscribe to the Deseret News. There’s a reason we don’t. I'm of two minds on this issue. On the one hand, I do find the Trib's coverage of Mormonism to be . . . patchy. It does seem to go out of its way to publish stories about controversies about the Church, some of which simply don't seem to be very newsworthy. Take, for example, Peggy Fletcher-Stack's absurd story about the anonymous woman who was deprived of a temple recommend because she wouldn't cover up while nursing the foyer, and how this led to "Mormon feminists" launching "a churchwide letter-writing campaign, urging LDS officials to issue a 'statement of support for nursing mothers.'" I've never met Peggy Fletcher-Stack, but I was actually embarrassed for her. She seriously submitted this for publication? This gossippy silliness? A letter-writing campaign about "nursing mothers" is newsworthy? What's next? "This just in! Intrepid reporter Peggy Fletcher-Stack reports that Eliza Q. McMormon of Manti was just asked by his bishop to help with an assignment at the cannery! With only two days notice! Outraged supporters of Eliza are creating a Facebook page urging LDS officials to issue a statement to bishops telling them that at least three days notice should be given for cannery assignments! Return to Peggy's column in the Tribune tomorrow for further updates on this developing drama!" On the other hand, I genuinely do want to hear news about Mormonism, and there are times when the Trib's coverage is helpful. But in the aggregate, I think the author of the above letter has a point about the Trib needing to "go back to printing real news." The more I think on it, the more I think this story is not newsworthy, and that the D News would have been better off leaving it unreported (though, as you suggest, the story would likely have come out eventually regardless). 28 minutes ago, ALarson said: I feel bad for him and for his family....I'm sure this is a very difficult time for them all and my prayers are with them. Same here. Thanks, -Smac
bluebell Posted August 16, 2019 Posted August 16, 2019 I feel so much for their family. They have already had more trials than most people, and had managed them gracefully and with an impressive strength. I feel bad that they, especially Lois, are now having to go through another very difficult trial that is again the result of other people's choices. 1
smac97 Posted August 16, 2019 Posted August 16, 2019 38 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: My heart aches for his wife. Same here. To have gone through such a tremendous struggle re: the loss of their daughter, only to have the marriage end years later is . . . probably the result of a confluence of multiple factors to which I am not privy, such that I should refrain from making any inferences or conclusions or speculations about this family. Let's instead pray for each and all of them and hope they find solace in these difficult circumstances. Thanks, -Smac 4
Amulek Posted August 16, 2019 Posted August 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, Amulek said: That is how the public media outlets were able to pick up the story - because it was on his public Facebook page, not necessarily because it was a private message that someone passed on to the media. After reading the Deseret News article, it appears I was mistaken. It does indeed sound like he sent the message to friends / family, and someone forwarded it to the Deseret News. They contacted him about it, and he confirmed that he is the one who wrote it. No idea if he requested they not publish anything about it, but just wanted to revise my original thoughts without simply editing them out of my previous post.
Recommended Posts