Ed Smart, father of Elizabeth Smart, Announces he is gay

[The Nehor]

Who cares? I thought we were past “coming out” being a big newsworthy deal.

[smac97]

1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

Who cares? I thought we were past “coming out” being a big newsworthy deal.

I think most "coming out" and "why-I-left" stories are not newsworthy.

Thanks,

-Smac

[SeekingUnderstanding]

15 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I wonder, is it equally hard for unmarried people to remain celibate and faithful? 

The minute I read your empathy post I thought of my 80 year old aunt- never married.  And I fully expect she has never had a sexual experience in her entire life.  I don’t know what came first, her weirdness or her celibacy.  I say that honestly. 

Your Aunt’s path was difficult, but not comparable. Being gay means, no flirting dating and no hope for relationship in this life. If you are lucky, in the eternities God will fix part of what you view core to yourself (see Doug Febrezio’s interview with Elder Todd Christoffeeson’s gay brother), and you will be partnered in the eternities. 

 

[MustardSeed]

32 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

My heart aches for both of them! I posted this in the other thread, but if you haven’t read this you should. It’s Lilly Weed’s response to statements like this:

http://joshweed.com/dear-family-and-friends-a-letter-about-my-divorce-written-on-my-16th-wedding-anniversary-by-lolly/

“

So, Lolly, do you think Josh is a selfish, rotten b******?

 (Please listen to this, because the answer is very important to me.) The answer is no. I don’t think that even a little tiny bit. Josh is the father of my amazing girls. Josh is the best friend I have ever known and he continues to be. Josh is not the villain and I am not his victim. If anything, we are both victims of misguided ideals and incorrect cultural beliefs. Josh is as much a victim as I am.

In fact, he is more of a victim that I am. “

“And yet, the way people are responding to our divorce is proof that he is much more the victim of this set-up than I am. Who is everyone instantly blaming? The gay guy. Who does everyone try to support and run to the aid of? The straight spouse. I’d ask you all to consider, why is that the most common response?”

“In fact, I’d say Josh needs your love more than I do. I automatically receive sympathy when people hear about our situation and he receives judgment. Please love him. If you know him, believe me when I say he’s still the same Josh you have always known and loved. I promise. In fact, he’s even better.”

One of the forgotten population tends to be spouses.  In our culture of Gay pride we forget that it is entirely human to feel the pain of rejection, regret, insecurity, fear, loss, abandonment, disillusionment, and deep deep sorrow when one is left. 

Spouses today often report that people largely celebrate the partner who comes out- “finally “- but the longer it takes , the more commitment the spouse has invested.  How tragically sad for them, who feel largely forgotten in the party. 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Could you explain this?  What if the Trib had broke this story?

Thanks,

-Smac

I don't think the Trib would, actually. Not without his permission.

ETA: I need to respond to your question Smac, that if the Trib published w/o Ed's permission, would I still be upset, that would be a big yes! But maybe the Des News did have Ed's ok.

BTW, I ran out of my allotment of posts, therefore the need to use this post.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Tacenda

[smac97]

Just now, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Your Aunt’s path was difficult, but not comparable. Being gay means, no flirting dating and no hope for relationship in this life. If you are lucky, in the eternities God will fix part of what you view core to yourself (see Doug Febrezio’s interview with Elder Todd Christoffeeson’s gay brother), and you will be partnered in the eternities. 

I'm not sure we can so easily brush off the struggles faced by single heterosexual Latter-day Saints.

I'm also not sure one-upmanship regarding which struggle is more difficult is helpful in any meaningful way.

Thanks,

-Smac

[ALarson]

10 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I feel so much for their family.  They have already had more trials than most people, and had managed them gracefully and with an impressive strength.  I feel bad that they, especially Lois, are now having to go through another very difficult trial that is again the result of other people's choices.

The ending of their marriage may have been a mutual decision.  Lois is the one who filed for divorce.  Either way, I'm sure it's very painful.  

It is however Ed's own choice to leave the church.  

[smac97]

1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

I don't think the Trib would, actually. Not without his permission.

The Trib has published all sorts of stories without the permission of the subject of those stories.

But assume that the Trib did actually break this story instead of the D News.  Would that forever taint the Trib in your eyes?  Would you lost 100% of your respect for it as a news reporting organization?

Is it possible that news organizations can occasionaller err in their editorial decisions?  And that such errors are not necessarily fatal to their competency as standing overall?

Thanks,

-Smac

[MustardSeed]

1 minute ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Your Aunt’s path was difficult, but not comparable. Being gay means, no flirting dating and no hope for relationship in this life. If you are lucky, in the eternities God will fix part of what you view core to yourself (see Doug Febrezio’s interview with Elder Todd Christoffeeson’s gay brother), and you will be partnered in the eternities. 

 

No disrespect intended.  I think my aunt comes to mind because I don’t think she has ever given herself permission to bat an eye at a man.  I guess you’d have to know her. 

I think she lost hope long ago, literally lost hope that she really only had for a year.  She was morbidly obese and had the surgery, which gave her hope. When nothing came of it, she lost hope again. 

Being gay is nothing like being heterosexual I get that.  I’m just wondering what it’s like for any human being to never have a sexual experience.  How that impacts the human psyche. Mine is not a political statement to suggest “well my backwards aunt can do it why can’t the Gays”. 

Incidentally, I had a boyfriend once tell me that I would get extra points in heaven for remaining celibate before marriage because for me it was harder, being easy to look at.  He claimed that the semi beautiful people had it easier. 

Anyway I digress.  I need my own thread for meandering. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

2 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

One of the forgotten population tends to be spouses.  In our culture of Gay pride we forget that it is entirely human to feel the pain of rejection, regret, insecurity, fear, loss, abandonment, disillusionment, and deep deep sorrow when one is left. 

Spouses today often report that people largely celebrate the partner who comes out- “finally “- but the longer it takes , the more commitment the spouse has invested.  How tragically sad for them, who feel largely forgotten in the party. 

I think this is fair to an extent, especially in the public square. I wonder though for Brother and Sister Smart... Brother Smart was closeted until recently, lives in Utah, and likely most of his friends and associates are active members of the church. In their circle of friends, which of them do you think is receiving unconditional love and support and who is being blamed, do you think? Lilly’s post would be a good place to start for answers.

For me I can’t say which path (being gay or being married to someone gay) would be more difficult. My heart aches for her pain and his pain. It makes me angry that we (collectively) dogmatically caused such unnecessary pain here. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

7 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I'm not sure we can so easily brush off the struggles faced by single heterosexual Latter-day Saints.

I'm also not sure one-upmanship regarding which struggle is more difficult is helpful in any meaningful way.

Thanks,

-Smac

As evidence, I ask in all sincerity, which group is more likely to go through the painful process of leaving the church? Gays or singles?

[The Nehor]

31 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I wonder, is it equally hard for unmarried people to remain celibate and faithful? 

The minute I read your empathy post I thought of my 80 year old aunt- never married.  And I fully expect she has never had a sexual experience in her entire life.  I don’t know what came first, her weirdness or her celibacy.  I say that honestly. 

I am not sure my life counts as celibate but I am pretty sure the weirdness came first.

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

As evidence, I ask in all sincerity, which group is more likely to go through the painful process of leaving the church? Gays or singles?

Neither tend to last long. Also there is a huge overlap in there.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Neither tend to last long. Also there is a huge overlap in there.

Perhaps I stand corrected?

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I wonder, at what point will the church recognize it has a problem.

It's not just losing the peripheral, undedicated, non-committed members. It is losing tremendous strength and leadership. The LGBT issue is just one of many issues forcing many to make the hard decision to separate from the church.

I think your question assumes some things that haven't actually been proven. I don't know that when a person leaves the church over doctrinal issues it does means the church has a problem.

I'm not saying that to be unsympathetic or to mean that the church and it's members shouldn't care when people leave, I just mean that as sad as it is, and as important as it is to do what we can to mitigate it, that the gospel doesn't change to keep more people in the church isn't a bad thing.

When Christ started to lose disciples during His mortal ministry, it wasn't a sign that He needed to 'recognize He had a problem' and make changes.  The people's changing responses to Christ's teachings were about the people, not Christ.  The assumption that the more acceptable the idea or doctrine, the more likely it is to be God's will, doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

(And of course I'm not saying that a teaching being unpopular means it's more likely to be God's will either.  It's popularity, the ease at which people accept it or reject it, or whether or not it's difficult or easy for someone to live has no bearing on whether or not it's true.)

Edited August 16, 2019 by bluebell

[california boy]

48 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Yes I’m extremely familiar with the Weeds.  

Lolly is one of a kind. 

Actually she is not one of a kind.  I think this is a common reaction when someone who was told to marry by the Church comes out.   My wife is very similar.  Our friendship has endured and she looks at both of us for being victims of a Church policy that is just not healthy.  

What did anyone think was going to happen?

[smac97]

14 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

As evidence, I ask in all sincerity, which group is more likely to go through the painful process of leaving the church? Gays or singles?

Again, I'm also not sure one-upmanship regarding which struggle is more difficult is helpful in any meaningful way.

Thanks,

-Smac

[bluebell]

29 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Who cares? I thought we were past “coming out” being a big newsworthy deal.

It think it's only news because he is Elizabeth Smart's dad and previously professed that faith in the teachings and doctrines of the church got his family through her kidnapping.

[The Nehor]

14 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Perhaps I stand corrected?

It was not a correction and I am not implying that most single people in the church are secretly gay. I was just saying that gay active members are generally single now, absent cases like California Boy which I believe are decreasing because Priesthood leaders were told to stop making presumptuous promises on behalf of God that it will “work out” if they just marry. They should have known better without that counsel.

Both leave. In my experience men leave more then women. Women for many years got promises that their loneliness would be compensated for. Men got blamed for their single status. To be fair in many cases the blame was very warranted. I am not sure about my case. Many guys were tired of being told to just keep going and have faith and it will work out. I fought tooth and nail to get integrated into my current ward and am fortunate the ward needs every body to fill callings. In a strong ward singles generally wind up as Single Adult Reps which is the most depressing calling I have ever had.

Edited August 16, 2019 by The Nehor

[HappyJackWagon]

25 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I think your question assumes some things that haven't actually been proven. I don't know that when a person leaves the church over doctrinal issues it does means the church has a problem.

I'm not saying that to be unsympathetic or to mean that the church and it's members shouldn't care when people leave, I just mean that as sad as it is, and as important as it is to do what we can to mitigate it, that the gospel doesn't change to keep more people in the church isn't a bad thing.

When Christ started to lose disciples during His mortal ministry, it wasn't a sign that He needed to 'recognize He had a problem' and make changes.  The people's changing responses to Christ's teachings were about the people, not Christ.  The assumption that the more acceptable the idea or doctrine, the more likely it is to be God's will, doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

(And of course I'm not saying that a teaching being unpopular means it's more likely to be God's will either.  It's popularity, the ease at which people accept it or reject it, or whether or not it's difficult or easy for someone to live has no bearing on whether or not it's true.)

That's a fair point.

I'm looking at "problem" from the standpoint of lost revenue (tithing), loss of human capital (dedicated workers to hold callings and serve), loss of leadership etc. It's true, that if they don't value those things on a temporal basis, and they aren't concerned about the loss of souls (they are stewards)  then there may not be a problem. OR if they don't view those things as controllable or their responsibility, that would also explain it.

 

[6EQUJ5]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

I think most "coming out" and "why-I-left" stories are not newsworthy.

And yet here you are commenting.

[smac97]

8 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

That's a fair point.

I'm looking at "problem" from the standpoint of lost revenue (tithing), loss of human capital (dedicated workers to hold callings and serve), loss of leadership etc.

I wonder if Jesus thought his Bread of Life sermon was a "problem" along these lines (see John 6).  I really doubt it.  "When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?"  (John 6:61)

The Law of Chastity prohibits things like adultery, fornication, and homosexual behavior.  I think these are truths which have become hard to hear for people of our day, not unlike the truths in the Bread of Life sermon were hard to hear for the people in Jesus' day:

Quote

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 ¶ From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

(John 6)

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

Just now, 6EQUJ5 said:

And yet here you are commenting.

I am not a news organization.

I also just made some comments to my wife about how nice it is that our friend Dave just arrived at our house to start the drywall remodeling work on our basement.  That I am commenting about this doesn't make it "newsworthy."

Thanks,

-Smac

[6EQUJ5]

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

If he didn't intend it to go public, he should not have published it on Facebook. 

An older, kind, and probably not technically savvy man posts personal -- not to mention respectful and reasonable -- message on FB.  You decide to take a dump on him. Nice work.

 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

5 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I am not a news organization.

I also just made some comments to my wife about how nice it is that our friend Dave just arrived at our house to start the drywall remodeling work on our basement.  That I am commenting about this doesn't make it "newsworthy."

Thanks,

-Smac

Aren’t topics that vast numbers of people want to comment on by definition newsworthy?