Hamba Tuhan Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, JulieM said: Ok, but do you know that Ed Smart has done that? From his Facebook post: 'Lois has been a loyal wife, and extraordinary mother, who has had to endure an impossible part of this journey. I deeply regret the excruciating pain this has caused her'.
JulieM Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: From his Facebook post: 'Lois has been a loyal wife, and extraordinary mother, who has had to endure an impossible part of this journey. I deeply regret the excruciating pain this has caused her'. So from that, you’re stating he’s had an affair? 3
Storm Rider Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 1 hour ago, rockpond said: Wow did this topic explode... 6 pages in 10 hours! It's a terribly sad situation. I hope that the Brethren are taking note. This is part of the problem with our teachings on this: With no great option for faithful gay and lesbian members, many will choose to enter into a mixed orientation marriage. And many of those marriages will end in divorce. Homes, lives, and hearts are torn apart. Current teachings have improved but we still have a long way to go. The Church can always do better, but the long way to go part...that rests solely and completely on the shoulders of each child of God. What are we going to choose? Are going to follow God or not? What saddens me is Brother Smart seems to say that with further study, etc., he has decided to be gay. How do you go from married to "I gotta be gay"? That transition, within the context of the being a disciple of Jesus Christ, needs further discussion. What influences came to bear on the individual that chooses to succumb to their same sex attraction? Is it porn? Is it stepping outside the marriage covenant and having sex with other individuals? What is it and why? Everything I have studied about the teachings of Jesus Christ and his gospel leads me to the understanding that we must die to ourselves and accept his will for us. In so many ways this absolutely directs us to keep our passions in check. Any time we let our passions control our lives we end in heartache and sin. This is a overwhelmingly sad situation and one of great disappointment. A man chooses to walk away from his wife and family because of unbridled passions. This is not Frank Sinatra busting out with "I gotta be me...", but a wholly self-centered, turning from Christ to satiate one's passions. 4
Hamba Tuhan Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, JulieM said: So from that, you’re stating he’s had an affair? I feel like you're intentionally ignoring what I've written in order to score some kind of rhetorical point. Where did I claim he's had an affair? Edited August 17, 2019 by Hamba Tuhan 3
Hamba Tuhan Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Storm Rider said: Everything I have studied about the teachings of Jesus Christ and his gospel leads me to the understanding that we must die to ourselves and accept his will for us. In so many ways this absolutely directs us to keep our passions in check. Any time we let our passions control our lives we end in heartache and sin. Not just passions but desires and appetites. And this is why there can be no 'truce' between any front -- no matter how trendy -- of the Sexual Revolution and the Gospel of Jesus Christ. They are diametrically opposed in root, branch and flower. Edited August 17, 2019 by Hamba Tuhan 4
JulieM Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: I feel like you're intentionally ignoring what I've written. Where did I claim he's had an affair? Were you saying this about Ed Smart? “Precisely. I find it breathtaking that we've reached the point of dressing up bog-standard infidelity as something noble and life-affirming.” If not an affair, what do you mean by “infidelity”? (Sorry if I misunderstood.) 4
Hamba Tuhan Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, JulieM said: If not an affair, what do you mean by “infidelity”? Quoting myself: 'Violating commitments and covenants is, by definition, infidelity'. Quoting the Merriam-Webster Dictionary: Quote 1a: the act or fact of having a romantic or sexual relationship with someone other than one's husband, wife, or partner b: unfaithfulness to a moral obligation : DISLOYALTY People who marry pledge to stick with each other no matter what. Walking away from that pledge when it no longer suits is, by definition, infidelity. I knew the wife of our stake president before they married. After the birth of her first child, her first husband told her that he'd come to realise that he just wasn't attracted to her as a mother -- the pregnancy, the stretch marks, the loose skin, the baby suckling. So he left and found himself a new, more toned, younger wife who didn't want babies. This is the very model of infidelity: he broke his marriage vows. And he did so based on attraction. Yet, oddly, no one seems to have celebrated his choice to be 'true to his real self' in this matter. Edited August 17, 2019 by Hamba Tuhan 3
JulieM Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Quoting myself: 'Violating commitments and covenants is, by definition, infidelity'. Quoting the Merriam-Webster Dictionary: People who marry pledge to stick with each other no matter what. Walking away from that pledge when it no longer suits is, by definition, infidelity. I’m just saying that when someone states a marriage ended because of infidelity, that’s usually saying there was an affair or cheating involved. By your definition, it would seem that every failed marriage involves infidelity and that’s not true, imo. But it’s your choice if you want to say you believe infidelity is why this marriage ended. (I mean that 😊) Edited August 17, 2019 by JulieM 2
carbon dioxide Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said: It's not just losing the peripheral, undedicated, non-committed members. It is losing tremendous strength and leadership. The LGBT issue is just one of many issues forcing many to make the hard decision to separate from the church. What do you expect the Church to do? Compromise its standards to maximize membership. Getting rid of the Word of Wisdom would do far more than any LGBT issue. There are far more people in the world who like beer than are gay. Perhaps the best way to retain and gain membership is doing away with all standards. Change the doctrine from Christ saves us from our sins to Christ saves us in our sins. Then we don't have to worry about any sin because its all taken care of. Why even be LDS or anything at that point? Being gay is not a sin but acting on it is. Mr Smart has to make a choice like we all have to make choice with whatever challenges us. What master will we serve. Edited August 17, 2019 by carbon dioxide
Hamba Tuhan Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 20 minutes ago, JulieM said: By your definition, it would seem that every failed marriage involves infidelity and that’s not true, imo. It's not my definition; that's precisely why I quoted from an American dictionary for you. Faithfulness is loyalty. Unfaithfulness is disloyalty. And no, not every failed marriage involves a violation of the marriage covenant, but very often it does. I'm assuming you'd agree the the first husband of my stake president's wife was unfaithful to his marriage vows?
Nacho2dope Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 I don't think if the Church changed its views on homosexuality anything wound change. We would not have this rush of millions trying to join the Church. People would still be upset and still hate the Church. I heard that Greg Prince stated that sixty thousand people left the Church after the November policy (I know there are some other numbers out there). Did those same sixty thousand return once the policy was changed back? I am guessing is a big zero that came back! So what makes anyone think this will be different. People are still leaving over the Priesthood ban, you think they will just let this go? People are leaving over the fact that there are multiple accounts of the First Vision. People will continue to leave with or without a change to the Law of Chasity. I would love to hear others thoughts on this, I could be totally wrong with my opinion here. Thanks 1
Hamba Tuhan Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 17 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: Change the doctrine from Christ saves us from our sins to Christ saves us in our sins. My appreciation for how perfectly the Book of Mormon text was prepared for our day has grown tremendously over the past couple of years. Each of the three anti-Christs in the Book of Mormon preaches a version of this doctrine: no repentance or redemption is needed because you're fine just the way you are. Where I live, we have politicians promising that in power, they'll legislate to stop churches teaching that people need to or even can change. Crazy! 2
longview Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, JulieM said: I’m just saying that when someone states a marriage ended because of infidelity, that’s usually saying there was an affair or cheating involved. By your definition, it would seem that every failed marriage involves infidelity and that’s not true, imo. But it’s your choice if you want to say you believe infidelity is why this marriage ended. (I mean that 😊) Infidelity is not always the same thing as having an affair. But regardless, when he married his wife he made a covenant in a three-way relationship. The third point of the triangle was with God. The highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom requires a husband/wife partnership. This entails being worthy and trustworthy enough to be allowed to invite intelligences to become their spirit children and to proceed with the next Eternal Round for implementing the Plan of Happiness. Bro. Smart not only slimed his wife he also turned against God. He has failed the test. 2
Hamba Tuhan Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Nacho2dope said: I would love to hear others thoughts on this, I could be totally wrong with my opinion here. As a recent Harvard University study found, the people who are walking away from religion in America are those who were always 'moderate' in their convictions. Meanwhile, the strongly committed are actually growing in number. Watering down the doctrines of Christ to appeal to an imaginary pool of moderates itching for a less-restrictive faith is a recipe for a church's decline and ultimate demise. Which may be why so many 'helpful' critics, both internal and external, keep recommending this course ... Edited August 17, 2019 by Hamba Tuhan 4
Nacho2dope Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: As a recent Harvard University study found, the people who are walking away from religion in America are those who were always 'moderate' in their convictions. Meanwhile, the strongly committed are actually growing in number. Watering down the doctrines of Christ to appeal to an imaginary pool of moderates itching for a less-restrictive faith is a recipe for a church's decline and ultimate demise. Agreed, thanks!
Calm Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 10 hours ago, ALarson said: Well, it's been stated that he thought he was posting in a private area of Facebook, but it was where all could read it (or something along those lines? I'm not on Facebook, so I'm not sure how it works....). He was posting it for friends as well as for other family members from what he stated: FB is a convenient way to quickly inform lots of people with minimal energy. He probably wasn’t looking forward to possible drama that comes in face to face surprises and so thought it wise to get past the shock before doing the personal touch. But there is a cost for that ease and that is less privacy/confidentiality. He is also old enough to be familiar with other forms of communication that would likely be viewed as more confidential, though they may require more work. A mass email would add the hassle of addressing with a minimal improvement of privacy. A written and mailed note (divorce announcement as opposed to marriage announcement) would encourage keeping it off the internet, imo. However, unless he kept it to a small group he was very familiar with and asked them to respect his privacy, there is no guarantee there is not a gossiper in his group that releases the info publicly no matter what. Someone might even notice the letter laying on a table at the home they are visiting and being a jerk, pry. Imagining the tool you are using is going to behave how you want it to and not how it has been constructed to act, well...people just aren’t paying attention then imo. He has only said he hadn’t intended it to be made so public, not that he felt a victim, etc. Disappointment and maybe some frustration seems a reasonable response to me. Getting upset or angry, that would imo be ignoring his own responsibility for his choice of tool. So if he puts the blame on others (which I haven’t seen imo), I think he would be over reacting. If he is philosophical about it (say ‘disappointed, but I got to remember that is the nature of the beast’), then he would seem like a reasonable individual to me. 1
mrmarklin Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 1 hour ago, JulieM said: So from that, you’re stating he’s had an affair? I think the fact that he’s leaving the Church means that he has had or is having an affair. Being gay, in and of itself is not a sin, and not necessarily a reason to leave the church.
Tacenda Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 (edited) I happen to check his FB a min ago and he posted this: I would like to make a clarification about the letter. Some have represented that I posted this and then took it down. I never posted it until now. I previously shared it through messenger to families and friends. This is the first I have posted it. ME: And here is the message he posted...I hope it clears up a lot of speculations. Dear Family and Friends This is one of the hardest letters I have ever written. Hard because I am finally acknowledging a part of me that I have struggled with most of my life and never wanted to accept, but I must be true and honest with myself. I have been richly blessed in my 64 years on this earth, and I am deeply grateful for the wonderful examples that have been in my life and the gifts that have been bestowed upon me. Of particular importance to me are the opportunities I have had to help and serve my brothers and sisters, my earthly family and in turn, receive help from them. When that happens, each of us becomes better than we were before. It is with this same spirit that I wish to share the news that I have recently acknowledged to myself and my family that I am gay. The decision to be honest and truthful about my orientation comes with its own set of challenges, but at the same time it is a huge relief. I have mostly watched in silence for years as many LGBTQ individuals both in and out of the Church have been victims of ridicule, shunning, rejection and outright humiliation. I didn’t want to face the feelings I fought so hard to suppress, and didn’t want to reach out and tell those being ostracized that I too am numbered among them. But I cannot do that any longer. Some will say that I have wasted my years here by not coming out sooner. Others have said, ”you’re giving up so much for so little, and you know how the Lord feels about gays,” they have concluded that I’ve chosen to waste my remaining years by leaving behind some rich and amazing gifts. Both are inaccurate and fail to do justice to the deep conflict involved in not being honest with myself and others, for so long. Acknowledging I am a gay man, is freeing but it also hurts many of those whom I love very much. In the end, people are free to say what they will, and believe what they want, but there is one voice more important than any other, that of my Savior, who wants each of us to love one another, to be honest and joyful and find a meaningful life. Many have asked what this means in terms of my relationship with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Church and its members have been a major part of my life and a great blessing to me, and for that I will always have a debt of gratitude. It’s very important to me to acknowledge the Lord’s hand in my life, to do otherwise would be to deny the miracles I've witnessed. My faith is strong, and unwavering, however, after considerable study, prayer and pondering I have come to a change in my beliefs. It is because of this change, that I can finally acknowledge and accept my orientation. Had I not had a change in my beliefs, I would have likely remained closeted the rest of my life. As an openly gay man, the Church is not a place where I find solace any longer. It is not my responsibility to tell the Church, its members or its leadership what to believe about the rightness or wrongness of being LGBTQ. I can only believe what I feel is right, but it is my responsibility to continue to grow, progress and mature as a child of loving Heavenly Parents, and to do that in a way that is spiritually healthy for me. I cannot be a successful son, brother, father or even friend if I do not take responsibility for my own spiritual well being, and continue to develop my relationship with the Lord. I love my family and always will. Lois has been a loyal wife, and extraordinary mother, who has had to endure an impossible part of this journey. I deeply regret the excruciating pain this has caused her. Hurting her was never my intent. While our marriage will end, my love for Lois and everyone in my family is eternal. I believe that love is what binds us together. While there are wounds right now, I also know our Savior can help heal the damage which this revelation has brought. Through Christ love will outlast the grief. Living with the pain and guilt I have for so many years, not willing to accept the truth about my orientation has at times brought me to the point where I questioned whether life was still worth living. I can no longer live trying to appease someone else’s idea of who I should be, and have come to the conclusion that it was never my Savior’s intent to change me from the way I was born. Acceptance and love is what makes the world a better place. The crucible of guilt and shame that too many secretly endure is something I wouldn’t wish on anyone. Please know that I appreciate your friendship and fellowship. And just like I did, you must decide what is right for you. That being said, I do hope you choose Christ’s example and walk the extra mile in love and kindness. I don’t believe I was born to endure a life of being someone who I am not. With much love, Ed Edited August 17, 2019 by Tacenda
Popular Post Calm Posted August 17, 2019 Popular Post Posted August 17, 2019 1 hour ago, mrmarklin said: Being gay, in and of itself is not a sin, and not necessarily a reason to leave the church. Of course not, but he may have started considering what his relationship with the Church was, started questioning it, and then doubting and now doesn’t believe or doesn’t think it is worth the effort in the future. No need to assume an affair even if he has decided that after the divorce he sees no reason not to have a romantic SS relationship. And it comes across as gossip. 8
ttribe Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 8 hours ago, ksfisher said: So what signals or communications from God should I be looking for? If, in the past, He revealed His will through His prophets (see Amos 3:7) why not today? If the law of chastity were to change by what means would He use to let His children know? I plainly said that if it works for you, stick with it. I'm not interested in messing with your worldview.
california boy Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 6 hours ago, Nacho2dope said: I don't think if the Church changed its views on homosexuality anything wound change. We would not have this rush of millions trying to join the Church. People would still be upset and still hate the Church. I heard that Greg Prince stated that sixty thousand people left the Church after the November policy (I know there are some other numbers out there). Did those same sixty thousand return once the policy was changed back? I am guessing is a big zero that came back! So what makes anyone think this will be different. People are still leaving over the Priesthood ban, you think they will just let this go? People are leaving over the fact that there are multiple accounts of the First Vision. People will continue to leave with or without a change to the Law of Chasity. I would love to hear others thoughts on this, I could be totally wrong with my opinion here. Thanks People leave because they no long believe the prophet speaks for God. Everything you listed relates to that. 60 thousand left because they did not believe the November "revelation" came from God despite the assurance of President Nelson that it did. Probably just as many left when that "revelation" was dismissed for the very same reasons. It confirmed what many believed in November. 1
california boy Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 5 hours ago, Tacenda said: I happen to check his FB a min ago and he posted this: I would like to make a clarification about the letter. Some have represented that I posted this and then took it down. I never posted it until now. I previously shared it through messenger to families and friends. This is the first I have posted it. ME: And here is the message he posted...I hope it clears up a lot of speculations. Dear Family and Friends This is one of the hardest letters I have ever written. Hard because I am finally acknowledging a part of me that I have struggled with most of my life and never wanted to accept, but I must be true and honest with myself. I have been richly blessed in my 64 years on this earth, and I am deeply grateful for the wonderful examples that have been in my life and the gifts that have been bestowed upon me. Of particular importance to me are the opportunities I have had to help and serve my brothers and sisters, my earthly family and in turn, receive help from them. When that happens, each of us becomes better than we were before. It is with this same spirit that I wish to share the news that I have recently acknowledged to myself and my family that I am gay. The decision to be honest and truthful about my orientation comes with its own set of challenges, but at the same time it is a huge relief. I have mostly watched in silence for years as many LGBTQ individuals both in and out of the Church have been victims of ridicule, shunning, rejection and outright humiliation. I didn’t want to face the feelings I fought so hard to suppress, and didn’t want to reach out and tell those being ostracized that I too am numbered among them. But I cannot do that any longer. Some will say that I have wasted my years here by not coming out sooner. Others have said, ”you’re giving up so much for so little, and you know how the Lord feels about gays,” they have concluded that I’ve chosen to waste my remaining years by leaving behind some rich and amazing gifts. Both are inaccurate and fail to do justice to the deep conflict involved in not being honest with myself and others, for so long. Acknowledging I am a gay man, is freeing but it also hurts many of those whom I love very much. In the end, people are free to say what they will, and believe what they want, but there is one voice more important than any other, that of my Savior, who wants each of us to love one another, to be honest and joyful and find a meaningful life. Many have asked what this means in terms of my relationship with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Church and its members have been a major part of my life and a great blessing to me, and for that I will always have a debt of gratitude. It’s very important to me to acknowledge the Lord’s hand in my life, to do otherwise would be to deny the miracles I've witnessed. My faith is strong, and unwavering, however, after considerable study, prayer and pondering I have come to a change in my beliefs. It is because of this change, that I can finally acknowledge and accept my orientation. Had I not had a change in my beliefs, I would have likely remained closeted the rest of my life. As an openly gay man, the Church is not a place where I find solace any longer. It is not my responsibility to tell the Church, its members or its leadership what to believe about the rightness or wrongness of being LGBTQ. I can only believe what I feel is right, but it is my responsibility to continue to grow, progress and mature as a child of loving Heavenly Parents, and to do that in a way that is spiritually healthy for me. I cannot be a successful son, brother, father or even friend if I do not take responsibility for my own spiritual well being, and continue to develop my relationship with the Lord. I love my family and always will. Lois has been a loyal wife, and extraordinary mother, who has had to endure an impossible part of this journey. I deeply regret the excruciating pain this has caused her. Hurting her was never my intent. While our marriage will end, my love for Lois and everyone in my family is eternal. I believe that love is what binds us together. While there are wounds right now, I also know our Savior can help heal the damage which this revelation has brought. Through Christ love will outlast the grief. Living with the pain and guilt I have for so many years, not willing to accept the truth about my orientation has at times brought me to the point where I questioned whether life was still worth living. I can no longer live trying to appease someone else’s idea of who I should be, and have come to the conclusion that it was never my Savior’s intent to change me from the way I was born. Acceptance and love is what makes the world a better place. The crucible of guilt and shame that too many secretly endure is something I wouldn’t wish on anyone. Please know that I appreciate your friendship and fellowship. And just like I did, you must decide what is right for you. That being said, I do hope you choose Christ’s example and walk the extra mile in love and kindness. I don’t believe I was born to endure a life of being someone who I am not. With much love, Ed I could have pretty much written the same letter. The only difference for me is that I knew I would have to come out for a very long time. I was just waiting for my children to no longer be living at home. I like being a dad, and didn't want to be a weekend dad. Quote I can only believe what I feel is right, but it is my responsibility to continue to grow, progress and mature as a child of loving Heavenly Parents, and to do that in a way that is spiritually healthy for me. This is something that I don't think others really can understand. When you feel like you are being dishonest, even lying, about who you are, it stunts your relationship with God. It makes accepting any kind of love impossible. "Would they still love me if they knew I was gay?" The only way to get past that is to be honest with those that you love, no matter how painful you know it will be for you and for everyone. When I came out, I lost just about every friend and family member. Of all those friends I had in my ward and stake, only 2 every contacted me again. My wife never lost faith in me. My children struggled, but soon understood that I loved them and they loved me. Most of my family didn't have anything to do with me for 13 years. I never once regretted for a single moment the decision to finally be truthful in my life. And part of not regretting that decision is how closely that decision has brought me to the Savior. I can't tell you how much deeper my relationship is with Him. This roadblock that kept me from feeling even His love was now taken down. The guy is 64 years old. Those that think this is just about having an affair as being his motivation speak in total ignorance. Judge him all you want. Condemn him for a decision you simply don't understand. It really won't matter one bit for him. He knows what he is doing. And he is willing to pay the price to finally be at peace with God. 4
california boy Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 12 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: I don’t think so. Smac is quite right. Provenance means a written record. There is no extant written record of the ban being mandated by revelation. Doesn’t say that it didn’t stem from revelation, only that there is no written record of such. Kind of shows the problem with everyone blindly accepting anything the prophet says as coming from God doesn't it. Think of all those families denied temple blessings because people assumed BY spoke for God. And every prophet after him supported that erroneous belief. Those prophets thought they didn't have the right to change the opinion of BY. Not one of those prophets were able to say, wait. this is just a personal statement? And what about all of those people who said that there was a promise from God that one day the ban would be lifted? Wouldn't that be a personal statement and not some revelation from God? Amazing how far down the rabbit hole something like this can go. That lasted what? almost 150 years? Or are you arguing that it was a revelation? Or do you just want it both ways? 2
Nacho2dope Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 1 hour ago, california boy said: People leave because they no long believe the prophet speaks for God. Everything you listed relates to that. 60 thousand left because they did not believe the November "revelation" came from God despite the assurance of President Nelson that it did. Probably just as many left when that "revelation" was dismissed for the very same reasons. It confirmed what many believed in November. I completely agree, people believed more in the policy then the Prophet. I hadn’t heard anyone left when the policy was changed back, but I would not doubt it. Thanks for sharing. I think to add to this, people no longer believe the Prophet or God and they start to believe Satan. James E. Faust shares this “Much of what comes from the devil is alluring and enticing. It glitters and is appealing to the sensual parts of our nature. His message sounds so reasonable and easy to justify. His voice is usually smooth and intriguing. If it were harsh or discordant, nobody would listen, nobody would be enticed. Some of Satan’s most appealing messages are: Everyone does it; if it doesn’t hurt anybody else, it’s all right; if you feel there is no harm in it, it’s okay; it’s the “cool” thing to do. Satan is the greatest imitator, the master deceiver, the arch counterfeiter, and the greatest forger ever in the history of the world. He comes into our lives as a thief in the night. His disguise is so perfect that it is hard to recognize him or his methods. He is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.”
california boy Posted August 17, 2019 Posted August 17, 2019 8 hours ago, Storm Rider said: The Church can always do better, but the long way to go part...that rests solely and completely on the shoulders of each child of God. What are we going to choose? Are going to follow God or not? What saddens me is Brother Smart seems to say that with further study, etc., he has decided to be gay. How do you go from married to "I gotta be gay"? That transition, within the context of the being a disciple of Jesus Christ, needs further discussion. What influences came to bear on the individual that chooses to succumb to their same sex attraction? Is it porn? Is it stepping outside the marriage covenant and having sex with other individuals? What is it and why? Everything I have studied about the teachings of Jesus Christ and his gospel leads me to the understanding that we must die to ourselves and accept his will for us. In so many ways this absolutely directs us to keep our passions in check. Any time we let our passions control our lives we end in heartache and sin. This is a overwhelmingly sad situation and one of great disappointment. A man chooses to walk away from his wife and family because of unbridled passions. This is not Frank Sinatra busting out with "I gotta be me...", but a wholly self-centered, turning from Christ to satiate one's passions. This is seriously one of the most ignorant posts I have seen on this subject. Total assumptions about something you obviously know NOTHING about. How do you think gay guys end up in straight marriages? Figure out the math. He is 64. I wonder who was telling him if he just got married, he would become straight? What is overwhelmingly sad situation and one of great disappointment is the Church putting him in this situation simply because he trusted their "promise from God". Everything I have studied about the teachings of Jesus Christ is that those teachings should be based on true eternal principles, not false promises. You are so willing to blindly support the Church. Perhaps he was too, and that was the beginning of this tragic story. 4
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