Survey for those who attended Sacrament Meeting Today (12/23)

[sheilauk]

I ticked no 1, but on reflection, our meeting probably fell within no 2'a parameters!   We only had a sacrament meeting, of about an hour.  We sang 5 carols, primary sang a carol and we had three short talks, one on the gift of Christmas, one on finding peace at Christmas and the rest of the year and one on the birth of Jesus,  delivered by yours truly!  There was a mention of Joseph in Liberty Jail and I mentioned him in my testimony at the end of my talk.  I do think we kept it very much Christ centred but I think most of our sacrament meetings are Christ centred. 

[cdowis]

On 12/23/2018 at 7:01 PM, Judd said:

It was about Christ, but the speakers closed in the name of Joseph Smith.

I can almost guarantee this will end up on an antiMormon web site and people will take it seriously.

Not funny.

[Calm]

6 hours ago, cdowis said:

I can almost guarantee this will end up on an antiMormon web site and people will take it seriously.

Not funny.

If you think it matters, you should keep track of this and then report when and where it happens. 

[cdowis]

12 minutes ago, Calm said:

If you think it matters, you should keep track of this and then report when and where it happens. 

Matters  not to me.
I didn't write the "light minded" (blasphemy) post so I will not be held responsible for its consequences.

Edited December 25, 2018 by cdowis

[california boy]

I know this is slightly off the subject, but I thought some might be interested anyway.  I am visiting friends out of town and was invited to attend an Episcopalian Christmas mass.  Never been to one so I. thought I would go.  First things I noticed is way more casual dress.  No white shirts or ties no suits.  The congregation skewed pretty old.  I wondered who would be attending 20 years from now. No children, but that might be because it was a midnight mass.  They had an earlier service at 6 pm     Also the church was very inclusive.  I noticed quite a few gay couples.  Maybe 10-20% of the congregation.  They tended to be a little younger.  All were invited to fully participate in the service and all were invited to take communion.

This was a Christmas mass so lots of carol singing by both a small choir and the congregation.  What was most different was the service centered more upon worshiping and praising Christ rather than talking about His teachings.  Almost all of what was said was either from the scriptures or set prayers.  You could follow the service of what was being said by following the program they handed out.  The minister gave about an 8-minute talk.  It was the only thing not written out in the program.  There was a lot of standing up and sitting down and the congregation saying certain parts of the service.  Much more interactive than what I was used to.  Anyway,  just interesting to see how others worship.  I would like to go back sometime when it is not a special Christmas service just to see how different it is.  I came away thinking I should do more of this.

[Judd]

1 hour ago, cdowis said:

Matters  not to me.
I didn't write the "light minded" (blasphemy) post so I will not be held responsible for its consequences.

What consequences are those? If someone knows enough context to know what “closing in the name of _____” is, then they know enough to be purposefully ignorant [with an agenda] on the interpretation of the comment. Sounds like any “responsibility” lies somewhere where the comment is simply a medium for their agenda, rather than the source for anything.

Edited December 25, 2018 by Judd

[cdowis]

33 minutes ago, Judd said:

 If someone knows enough context to know what “closing in the name of _____” is, t

Read my first  post

Edited December 25, 2018 by cdowis

[Judd]

2 hours ago, cdowis said:

Read my first  post

I did, and I’m failing to connect the dots. Your scenario puts someone reading this on anti-Mormon website, and amongst all that garbage,  that is a variable having influence on people enough to “have consequences”?

[juliann]

All singing by a pretty good choir with incredible organist along with a pianist. The only speaking was a narration with the choir in the background. The primary did a couple of songs and the congregation joined in with the choir three times. It was stunning. 

[Stargazer]

We only had Sacrament meeting.  As for Joseph Smith, his name might have been mentioned, but only in connection with a closing testimony about the Church.  But I don't recall if it actually happened. 

It was a very uplifting meeting. All in all.  The choir did a good job of singing one intermediate hymn.  Later in the evening we had an hour-long carol service that was even better attended than the sacrament meeting was.  It was fun singing those Christmas songs -- and none of three short messages mentioned Joseph Smith.

All in all, this was a Christ-centered Christmas -- which is as it should be.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Stargazer

[Hamba Tuhan]

6 hours ago, california boy said:

I wondered who would be attending 20 years from now.

Sadly, quite possibly no one. 

[Amulek]

I checked Option 1. Our sacrament meeting was mostly singing with a couple of speakers thrown in for good measure.

One of the speakers, in giving her closing testimony, mentioned the restoration of the gospel, but I don't recall her uttering the words "Joseph Smith," specifically. 

Edited December 26, 2018 by Amulek

[BlueDreams]

I would have put "other," if that had been an option. Apparently the ward i attended, their christmas program of singing and such was the week before, because a missionary was coming home. She talked and kept her experiences directly to Christ and what He does for us in our lives. It was a wonderful talk really. There were 2 solo singers with christmas songs and christmas congregation hymns. But the last speaker, a high councilman, oddly used a scripture from Christ about (remembering lot's wife) to then talk about lot's wife and not looking back and such. It wasn't a bad talk, but it felt out of place from the rest of them meeting. It wasn't exactly focus on Christ but it also had no mention of JS....Thus other.

[HappyJackWagon]

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 7:54 AM, cdowis said:

I can almost guarantee this will end up on an antiMormon web site and people will take it seriously.

Not funny.

What is anti-Mormon? IIRC the entire church is now anti "Mormon". True story reported to me by my wife. In her RS class 2 weeks ago the teacher stated that we must not stop our efforts in ridding "Mormon" from our lexicon until it becomes as offensive to us as the N word (only the teacher said the actual word). My wife's jaw dropped. Only one person spoke up with a brief comment about how "Mormon" will never be as offensive as the N word, nor should it be. There was a long, uncomfortable silence, and then the teacher moved on after commenting briefly about avoiding dissension that the spirit wouldn't be chased away. My wife felt very badly that she didn't also say something. Soooo, in my view this teacher is far more anti-Mormon than most critics  But I doubt she has a website.

And come on, "closing in the name of Joseph Smith" was kinda funny.

Our Sacrament meeting was pretty bland. Christmas song for the open and close, regular Sacrament song, and 1 piano medley of Christmas songs.

The bishop called up multiple people from the congregation to share their testimonies and then he read a loosely themed 30 minute Christmas talk (much of which was quoted directly from Pres. Nelson and Elder Holland). I'm confident we can do better and it sounds like many here had much better Christmas worship services than mine. That's a good thing.

Edited December 26, 2018 by HappyJackWagon

[Calm]

4 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

I would have put "other," if that had been an option. Apparently the ward i attended, their christmas program of singing and such was the week before, because a missionary was coming home. She talked and kept her experiences directly to Christ and what He does for us in our lives. It was a wonderful talk really. There were 2 solo singers with christmas songs and christmas congregation hymns. But the last speaker, a high councilman, oddly used a scripture from Christ about (remembering lot's wife) to then talk about lot's wife and not looking back and such. It wasn't a bad talk, but it felt out of place from the rest of them meeting. It wasn't exactly focus on Christ but it also had no mention of JS....Thus other.

Sounds like a New Year's talk (looking forward, not back)

[Prof]

5 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

True story reported to me by my wife. In her RS class 2 weeks ago the teacher stated that we must not stop our efforts in ridding "Mormon" from our lexicon until it becomes as offensive to us as the N word (only the teacher said the actual word). My wife's jaw dropped. Only one person spoke up with a brief comment about how "Mormon" will never be as offensive as the N word, nor should it be. There was a long, uncomfortable silence, and then the teacher moved on after commenting briefly about avoiding dissension that the spirit wouldn't be chased away. My wife felt very badly that she didn't also say something. Soooo, in my view this teacher is far more anti-Mormon than most critics  But I doubt she has a website.

I understand Pres. Nelson wanting us to change the way  we refer to the Church. But I fear that shenanigans like those HJW mentions above will do much more damage than any gains we might get.

In my own ward, I have seen members go far to correct nonmembers about the term Mormon. To the point that I fear the nonmembers may have been offended.

[LoudmouthMormon]

On 12/23/2018 at 5:11 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

On 12/23/2018 at 4:51 PM, LoudmouthMormon said:

I don't think there was a single mention of Joseph Smith, or the word "restored".  The only way you could tell it was a CoJCoLDS service, was the thing started with some releases and callings, and then the sacrament.

I don’t think a meeting about Christ should consciously omit any reference or allusion to the doctrines of the Restoration, since Christ Himself is the author of that Restoration and those doctrines. 

We could hold an interfaith service at some other time. Sacrament meeting is for discussion of pure truth as it has been revealed to us. 

I don’t believe we need to Protestantize or Catholicize our worship services and ignore truths revealed in the latter days just because some among us are over-sensitive to outside criticism. 

While I'm in total agreement, I don't think any of that was going on.  Nobody was consciously omitting anything.  We weren't going for an interfaith service.  I don't believe anyone was trying to protestantize or Catholicize anything, or ignore any latter day truths, and I know my bishopric well enough to know just about the only experience they have to outside criticism is when I tell them about it.

It was the Sunday before Christmas, the celebration of Christ's birth, and the pure truth came straight out of the bible, written by the people who were there.  Ain't no Nephite ever see no baby Jesus.  Check back with me on Easter Sunday.

Edited December 31, 2018 by LoudmouthMormon

[JLHPROF]

9 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

 Ain't no Nephite ever see no baby Jesus.

I wouldn't be so sure of that.

[HappyJackWagon]

8 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

I wouldn't be so sure of that.

??

Was that a reflexive response of disagreement or do you really think Nephite's saw "baby Jesus"? If they had, how? Where is it recorded and were transporter beams involved?

[Scott Lloyd]

39 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

While I'm in total agreement, I don't think any of that was going on.  Nobody was consciously omitting anything.  We weren't going for an interfaith service.  I don't believe anyone was trying to protestantize or Catholicize anything, or ignore any latter day truths, and I know my bishopric well enough to know just about the only experience they have to outside criticism is when I tell them about it.

It was the Sunday before Christmas, the celebration of Christ's birth, and the pure truth came straight out of the bible, written by the people who were there.  Ain't no Nephite ever see no baby Jesus.  Check back with me on Easter Sunday.

Point taken.

I would take friendly exception, though, to your last sentence. I believe Nephi himself actually saw in vision the newborn Christ child.

And by the way, I think a recitation of portions of that vision recounted in the Book of Mormon would be appropriate for any Christmas-themed sacrament meeting -- as would a recounting of the events among the Nephites leading up to the mortal Advent of Christ. In fact, children singing the popular Primary song "Samuel Tells of the Baby Jesus" has occasionally been a part of our ward's Christmastime sacrament meeting programs in the past and, no doubt, will be in the future.  

Edited December 31, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

7 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

??

Was that a reflexive response of disagreement or do you really think Nephite's saw "baby Jesus"? If they had, how? Where is it recorded and were transporter beams involved?

See my post. Are you forgetting Nephi's vision recounted in 1 Nephi?

[HappyJackWagon]

29 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

See my post. Are you forgetting Nephi's vision recounted in 1 Nephi?

Yes, I was forgetting.

Still, if I had a dream about seeing the Eiffel Tower I wouldn't claim to have seen it.

[Scott Lloyd]

12 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Yes, I was forgetting.

Still, if I had a dream about seeing the Eiffel Tower I wouldn't claim to have seen it.

I think you are trivializing Nephi’s vision, which correlated with the vision of John the Revelator and which have a panoramic view of sacred events to come through history down to the latter days. 

In any event, you didn’t explain how a reference to that portion of Nephi’s vision would be inappropriate in a sacrament meeting program with a Christmas theme. 

[HappyJackWagon]

15 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I think you are trivializing Nephi’s vision, which correlated with the vision of John the Revelator and which have a panoramic view of sacred events to come through history down to the latter days. 

In any event, you didn’t explain how a reference to that portion of Nephi’s vision would be inappropriate in a sacrament meeting program with a Christmas theme. 

I didn't explain something that you just went back and added in the edit of your post? You're right. How thoughtless of me. I'll answer now.

This is the part that was edited after my original reading of your post and response to someone elses post.

Quote

And by the way, I think a recitation of portions of that vision recounted in the Book of Mormon would be appropriate for any Christmas-themed sacrament meeting -- as would a recounting of the events among the Nephites leading up to the mortal Advent of Christ. In fact, children singing the popular Primary song "Samuel Tells of the Baby Jesus" has occasionally been a part of our ward's Christmastime sacrament meeting programs in the past and, no doubt, will be in the future.  

I never said it would be inappropriate, nor do I think it would be inappropriate. It focuses on Jesus at Christmas...which is exactly where focus should be.

[Scott Lloyd]

17 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I didn't explain something that you just went back and added in the edit of your post? You're right. How thoughtless of me. I'll answer now.

This is the part that was edited after my original reading of your post and response to someone elses post.

I never said it would be inappropriate, nor do I think it would be inappropriate. It focuses on Jesus at Christmas...which is exactly where focus should be.

But it relies on ancient scripture that came forth by means of the latter-day Restoration — which I dare say might give some people heartburn who would rather we take a more sectarian approach in our worship services at Christmas time.