Popular Post Rivers Posted November 15, 2018 Popular Post Posted November 15, 2018 Random thought. I am reading through the Book of Mormon right now and I am always struck by how easily the Lamanites are stirred up with hatred against the Nephites. The Nephite dissenters are always going over to the Lamanites and inciting them to go to war. The Lamanites just want to live their lives but they keep giving in. It really bugs me. Why didn’t the Lamanites have more of a backbone and say, “No. We’re tired of fighting the Nephites. Leave us alone!” They let those dissenters have way too much power over them. I have to wonder what kinds of specific things they were told. There’s a timely lesson here I think. 5
snowflake Posted November 15, 2018 Posted November 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, Rivers said: I have to wonder what kinds of specific things they were told. MAGA!!!! 3
Rivers Posted November 15, 2018 Author Posted November 15, 2018 1 hour ago, snowflake said: MAGA!!!! Hey! No politics! 🙂
MustardSeed Posted November 15, 2018 Posted November 15, 2018 Human beings are so funny. Our patience and self control is so weak. Doesn’t take much for us to turn into children when we get “triggered”.
Storm Rider Posted November 15, 2018 Posted November 15, 2018 3 hours ago, snowflake said: MAGA!!!! haha
Popular Post CV75 Posted November 15, 2018 Popular Post Posted November 15, 2018 3 hours ago, snowflake said: MAGA!!!! Make Amalickiah Great Again! 6
Avatar4321 Posted November 15, 2018 Posted November 15, 2018 I think they were predisposed to be angry at the nephites due to the false traditions in their past
Meerkat Posted November 16, 2018 Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) As you say, "There is a timely lesson here." On 11/15/2018 at 4:26 AM, Rivers said: I have to wonder what kinds of specific things they were told. It was probably similar to families today: "Do your chores. Pick up your toys. Don't fight. Be polite. Listen to your Mother. Obey your Dad. Eat your vegetables. You are a child of God. Tone it down. Choose your friends wisely. Stay away from pot. It will make you paranoid. Think positive. Exercise faith. You can do great things. By the way, we forgot the brass plates back in Jerusalem. Go back and get them from a king who will want to take your stuff and kill you," etc. To which they replied: "The world has changed. You just don't get it. Things were different when you were a kid. We've got more important things to do than listen to you. Your generation is too materialistic. You don't care about the poor or disadvantaged. We do. We will take from the rich and give to the poor, which includes us. You have way too much confidence in a god you can't see. You are the cause of all our problems. Don't talk to us. We aren't interested in anything you have to say." "12 And thus Laman and Lemuel, being the eldest, did murmur against their father. And they did murmur because they knew not the dealings of that God who had created them." 1 Nephi 2:12 Edited November 16, 2018 by Meerkat 1
Alan Posted November 16, 2018 Posted November 16, 2018 21 hours ago, Avatar4321 said: I think they were predisposed to be angry at the nephites due to the false traditions in their past I think Laman and Lemuel felt hard done by, and with some cause in my view. Can't help thinking I would have reacted in similar fashion. 1
Avatar4321 Posted November 16, 2018 Posted November 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Alan said: I think Laman and Lemuel felt hard done by, and with some cause in my view. Can't help thinking I would have reacted in similar fashion. They did try to murder their brother several times. So I can understand a little of what they’re going through but they’re hardly justified 3
cdowis Posted November 16, 2018 Posted November 16, 2018 (edited) On 11/15/2018 at 7:26 AM, Rivers said: Why didn’t the Lamanites have more of a backbone and say, “No. We’re tired of fighting the Nephites. Leave us alone!” Amalickiah and his men went to the court of the Lamanite king and persuaded him to issue a call to arms against the Nephites. However, this proved unpopular with the majority of warriors, having just lost a costly war against the Nephites. The rebels [opposing the call to war] outnumbered the loyalist army that Amalickiah commanded. WIKI The call to war almost caused a civil war among the Lamanites but Amalickiah was eventually able to manipulate them to go to war. Edited November 16, 2018 by cdowis
rockpond Posted November 16, 2018 Posted November 16, 2018 On 11/15/2018 at 5:26 AM, Rivers said: Random thought. I am reading through the Book of Mormon right now and I am always struck by how easily the Lamanites are stirred up with hatred against the Nephites. The Nephite dissenters are always going over to the Lamanites and inciting them to go to war. The Lamanites just want to live their lives but they keep giving in. It really bugs me. Why didn’t the Lamanites have more of a backbone and say, “No. We’re tired of fighting the Nephites. Leave us alone!” They let those dissenters have way too much power over them. I have to wonder what kinds of specific things they were told. There’s a timely lesson here I think. I think it's worth noting the authorship. The Book of Mormon wasn't written as an even-handed history intended to provide the POV for both sides. It was written by Nephites. Compiled by a man who watched the Lamanites slaughter his people from off the face of the earth. In his Reader's Guide, Grant Hardy points out that Nephi nearly always refers to Laman & Lemuel as one entity. It's as if they universally said, did, and thought the same things. That's unlikely. But Nephi wrote it after the familial split had occurred -- probably tough at that point to look back and find any merit in Laman & Lemuel's point of view. 1
strappinglad Posted November 19, 2018 Posted November 19, 2018 Aside from the concept that there must needs be opposition in all things, why not just let L&L go home the first time they complained. I suppose the Middle Eastern family dynamic at the time didn't allow for such parting . Maybe they didn't have much to go home to if Lehi divested himself in order to get the Brass plates etc.
The Nehor Posted November 19, 2018 Posted November 19, 2018 We like to imagine we are above and distinct from what we are listening to or reading and can consciously accept or reject it without being influenced but we are not. I have seen a steady diet of talk radio turn sane people into gibbering, hate-filled, angry demagogues. Amalickiah knew what he was doing when he set up towers and had speakers drone on about the evil injustices the Nephites had heaped upon the Lamanites. It was not long before those who feared to fight became eager to fight. 4
Meerkat Posted November 21, 2018 Posted November 21, 2018 On 11/19/2018 at 8:39 AM, The Nehor said: I have seen a steady diet of talk radio turn sane people into gibbering, hate-filled, angry demagogues. And it's a shame. There are many people of good will on all sides. We should try to understand rather than talk past each other. With Thanksgiving coming up, it's good to remember and cut each other slack when we disagree. Mom was liberal out of a compassionate heart. My brothers and me are more conservative, for the same reason in my opinion. It wasn't until after Mom died that I realized we were unnecessarily strident in our views. We missed a wonderful opportunity to better understand the heart and mind of a true liberal who loved people and had great sympathy for the poor and unfortunate. She volunteered regularly as a post natal care nurse for unwed Mothers, after she retired as a public health nurse. I wish I could sit across the table from her this Thanksgiving. She was one of the greatest blessings in my life. 3
Bernard Gui Posted November 21, 2018 Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) On 11/19/2018 at 8:39 AM, The Nehor said: We like to imagine we are above and distinct from what we are listening to or reading and can consciously accept or reject it without being influenced but we are not. I have seen a steady diet of talk radio turn sane people into gibbering, hate-filled, angry demagogues. Amalickiah knew what he was doing when he set up towers and had speakers drone on about the evil injustices the Nephites had heaped upon the Lamanites. It was not long before those who feared to fight became eager to fight. Demagoguery and irrational hatred happen on both sides. Edited November 25, 2018 by Bernard Gui 3
The Nehor Posted November 21, 2018 Posted November 21, 2018 31 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: Demagoguery and irrational hatred happens on both sides. Yes, which is a warning to avoid it no matter which side you are on. Too often I have seen people use that observation as justification for consuming their favored brand of hatred and demagoguery. 2
Hamba Tuhan Posted November 21, 2018 Posted November 21, 2018 On 11/20/2018 at 3:39 AM, The Nehor said: I have seen a steady diet of talk radio turn sane people into gibbering, hate-filled, angry demagogues. Amalickiah knew what he was doing when he set up towers and had speakers drone on about the evil injustices the Nephites had heaped upon the Lamanites. It was not long before those who feared to fight became eager to fight. A member of our bishopric some years back became obsessed with following American politics and especially the 'hate-filled, angry demagogues'. That's all he posts about now on social media. And he's stopped attending church. Tragic but, to me, completely predictable.
Meerkat Posted November 21, 2018 Posted November 21, 2018 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: Yes, which is a warning to avoid it no matter which side you are on. Too often I have seen people use that observation as justification for consuming their favored brand of hatred and demagoguery. Yes. We need to make a conscious effort to enjoy each other. Not every thought needs to be shared. Many opinions won't change, no matter what the rebuttal. So why not ask some questions, and give our loved ones the chance to share what is important to them? We have two children on the opposite side of the aisle from us. They know our opinions from a lifetime of listening to us preach. Now, we listen with interest to them. Why? Because we love them. Beyond this Thanksgiving dinner-- beyond the politics, and beyond this veil of tears they are what we want to hold close more than anything. 1
The Nehor Posted November 21, 2018 Posted November 21, 2018 42 minutes ago, Meerkat said: Yes. We need to make a conscious effort to enjoy each other. Not every thought needs to be shared. Many opinions won't change, no matter what the rebuttal. So why not ask some questions, and give our loved ones the chance to share what is important to them? We have two children on the opposite side of the aisle from us. They know our opinions from a lifetime of listening to us preach. Now, we listen with interest to them. Why? Because we love them. Beyond this Thanksgiving dinner-- beyond the politics, and beyond this veil of tears they are what we want to hold close more than anything. In my family we just deep fry the turkey and everyone is too stuffed afterwords to want to talk at all. 1
JAHS Posted November 21, 2018 Posted November 21, 2018 I think we might get things out of perspective a little when it comes to the time involved which sort of gets lost when condensed into a single small book. The people didn't necessarily "easily" or suddenly get mad and start fighting. I imagine things started to heat up and simmer over time and then eventually come to a boil resulting in war.
Bernard Gui Posted November 21, 2018 Posted November 21, 2018 6 hours ago, The Nehor said: Yes, which is a warning to avoid it no matter which side you are on. Too often I have seen people use that observation as justification for consuming their favored brand of hatred and demagoguery. Yep.
MustardSeed Posted November 21, 2018 Posted November 21, 2018 I think battles occur On 11/15/2018 at 4:26 AM, Rivers said: They let those dissenters have way too much power over them. There’s a timely lesson here I think. This, combined with aggressors not seeing the humanness in the other. Plus laying down weaponry requires a level of maturity and skill that has to intentionally be nurtured. I’m still learning, every day. I have a list of rules for myself that I find helps reduce unnecessary conflict while I drive, while online, with my spouse, and at work. Sometimes I’m successful, other times not. I’m responsible for the failures. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 (edited) On 11/19/2018 at 9:39 AM, The Nehor said: I have seen a steady diet of talk radio turn sane people into gibbering, hate-filled, angry demagogues. A counterpoint, it would seem, to Trump Derangement Syndrome accelerated by a steady diet of cable and mainstream network programming that no longer even pretends to hide its bias. Edited November 26, 2018 by Scott Lloyd 1
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