The Large Porn Bubble In The Middle Of The PP

[JulieM]

Is anyone else a bit puzzled by the bubble titled "porn" (the largest one in the center of the power point recently leaked)?  

There seems to almost be an obsession with the leaders on this topic.

Do people really leave the church over porn?  I happen to believe there are very few actual porn addicts in the church and I hate how the youth are riddled with guilt over even viewing it occasionally.  

Anyway, I know this is a sensitive topic, but I doubt people leave to view porn and I feel it's the old "members leave to sin" rhetoric.

 

Edited March 2, 2017 by JulieM

[Benjamin Seeker]

10 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Do people really leave the church over porn?

I think the slide's title "Issues and Ideas Leading Away People Away from the Gospel" leaves room for other possibilities than just leaving the church. For example, people being unable to attain a temple recommend could be seen as coming away from the Gospel. That being said, I think there is also a concern with the loss of the Spirit, which church leaders view as coorelated with weakening of testimony and/or weakening of diligence or persistence,directly or eventually leading to an exit from church activity.

[JLHPROF]

19 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Do people really leave the church over porn?  I happen to believe there are very few actual porn addicts in the church and I hate how the youth are riddled with guilt over even viewing it occasionally. 

Anyway, I know this is a sensitive topic, but I doubt people leave to view porn and I feel it's the old "members leave to sin" rhetoric.

 

I don't think it's that people leave to view porn.
It's that the numbers of those viewing porn, and therefore stuck in sin, are increasing.
 

[RevTestament]

To the extent that it is an addicting type of sin it does tend to lead people away from the Church, as they will lose the gift of the Holy Spirit, if they continue in it. I'm sure many who have left the church due to secularized reasons are also users although that may not come out, so it is probably not part of statistics on the subject. Let's face it, most people who resign from the Church, aren't going to list this as a reason. However, the 12 obviously feel it is at least a contributing factor in people drifting from the Church. I'm inclined to agree.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Is anyone else a bit puzzled by the bubble titled "porn" (the largest one in the center of the power point recently leaked)?  

There seems to almost be an obsession with the leaders on this topic.

Do people really leave the church over porn?  I happen to believe there are very few actual porn addicts in the church and I hate how the youth are riddled with guilt over even viewing it occasionally.  

Anyway, I know this is a sensitive topic, but I doubt people leave to view porn and I feel it's the old "members leave to sin" rhetoric.

 

It often leads to adultery and broken homes. Being a Church who decries sexual sins and is centered around the family, nothing about preaching against the issue is surprising. If anything even more attention should be paid to the topic, and seeking help for those who struggle with this addition. 

[JulieM]

18 minutes ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

I think the slide's title "Issues and Ideas Leading Away People Away from the Gospel" leaves room for other possibilities than just leaving the church. For example, people being unable to attain a temple recommend could be seen as coming away from the Gospel. That being said, I think there is also a concern with the loss of the Spirit, which church leaders view as coorelated with weakening of testimony and/or weakening of diligence or persistence,directly or eventually leading to an exit from church activity.

Yes, I thought of all that and agree.  I think someone would really have to be addicted to porn for this to happen though and I feel that not many are (really addicted).  Maybe I just live a sheltered life.

I believe the guilt members are made to feel (especially the youth) causes more issues and damage than the actual occasional seeing of porn.

I just hate the tremendous guilt that's imposed for this and also for the dreaded "m" word. I believe it's just a normal part of being a teen.

 

Edited March 3, 2017 by JulieM

[VideoGameJunkie]

I think the term porn addiction is thrown around too often. To be a porn addict you have to not be able to go a day without it, while some people are labeled porn addicts who view porn only once every couple of months.

[Benjamin Seeker]

4 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Yes, I thought of all that and agree.  I think someone would really have to be addicted to porn for this to happen though and I feel that not many are (really addicted).  Maybe I just live a sheltered life.

I believe the guilt members are made to feel (especially the youth) causes more issues and damage than the actual occasional seeing of porn.

I just hate the tremendous guilt that's imposed for this and also for the dreaded "m" word. I believe it's just a normal part of being a teen.

 

My guess is the 12 are more concerned with married men who watch porn, which from my anecdotal experience with members I know is more common than I originally thought.

[Duncan]

I think whatever the reasons people view porn are the issue, porn seems easy to attack but just doing that doesn't solve your problem. For example if you view porn because you're bored then solve that and hopefully your porn problem will go away. Mind you it's supposed to be worse then cocaine addiction but i've heard other things too are worse then a cocaine addiction, makes you think cocaine can't be all that bad

[CV75]

59 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Is anyone else a bit puzzled by the bubble titled "porn" (the largest one in the center of the power point recently leaked)?  

There seems to almost be an obsession with the leaders on this topic.

Do people really leave the church over porn?  I happen to believe there are very few actual porn addicts in the church and I hate how the youth are riddled with guilt over even viewing it occasionally.  

Anyway, I know this is a sensitive topic, but I doubt people leave to view porn and I feel it's the old "members leave to sin" rhetoric.

 

The slide is about leaving the Gospel, not leaving the Church.

The slide shows "porn" tied in the 4^th place of 17 bubbles, the largest being disagreement with Church policies, and the smallest John Dehlin. How do you propose that porn helps members stay in the Gospel more than say, John Dehlin’s ideas?

How do Church leaders show they preoccupy or fill their minds continually, intrusively, and to a troubling extent on this subject?

Why do you conclude that the motive for leaving the Gospel is to view porn, when the concern is that using it has leads people to leaving? "I want to view porn, so i will abandon the teachings of Christ" -- just doesn't work that way. A developing interest in something someone finds more enticing than the Gospel is what leads people away from their "first love."

[JulieM]

10 minutes ago, CV75 said:

The slide is about leaving the Gospel, not leaving the Church.

 

The slide shows "porn" tied in the 4^th place of 17 bubbles, the largest being disagreement with Church policies, and the smallest John Dehlin. How do you propose that porn helps members stay in the Gospel more than say, John Dehlin’s ideas?

Many inactive members still love and live the gospel of Jesus Christ.  I don't know about John Dehlin, but leaving the Mormon church is not the same as leaving the gospel, IMO.  I have no idea how Dehlin feels about Christ and his teachings.  But I know many wonderful Christians who are not members or who are inactive members of the church.

 

Edited March 3, 2017 by JulieM

[bsjkki]

I would say porn is that big a problem in the church and a huge stumbling block for  those in the church to remain. Viewing porn draws people away from the spirit and then from the church. It becomes ritualistic and people have a hard time giving it up. It is a huge problem with millennials and with the young married couples. I know many who have overcome this even when the addiction led to more grievous sins. I think studying what counseling helps the most is crucial. Many don't seek help because of fear of it becoming known and shame. Just this week, I heard of two couples who no longer attend the temple because they watch porn together. 

[Johnnie Cake]

The cure to watching porn? Start posting here, I mean who has any time left...am I right?

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Johnnie Cake said:

The cure to watching porn? Start posting here, I mean who has any time left...am I right?

You said it!

[mfbukowski]

I was thankful to realize that "PP" stood for power point.

You can't imagine what I was visualizing.

[Meadowchik]

4 hours ago, JulieM said:

Yes, I thought of all that and agree.  I think someone would really have to be addicted to porn for this to happen though and I feel that not many are (really addicted).  Maybe I just live a sheltered life.

I believe the guilt members are made to feel (especially the youth) causes more issues and damage than the actual occasional seeing of porn.

I just hate the tremendous guilt that's imposed for this and also for the dreaded "m" word. I believe it's just a normal part of being a teen.

 

I'll never forget this news story since I was also at BYU at the time. Another BYU student attempted to kill his pregnant wife because he was addicted to porn and he feared her reaction:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/995977/Poisoner-gets-15-years-in-prison.html

[Meadowchik]

5 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

It often leads to adultery and broken homes. Being a Church who decries sexual sins and is centered around the family, nothing about preaching against the issue is surprising. If anything even more attention should be paid to the topic, and seeking help for those who struggle with this addition. 

Yes it could be all the issues associated with porn use: unhealthy marriages or remaining single...if bishops are reporting difficulty because of a large portion of members struggling with porn, one can assume the problem might handicap the entire ward including missionary, reactivation, and general edification efforts, which can all be linked to activity in the Church.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Duncan said:

I think whatever the reasons people view porn are the issue, porn seems easy to attack but just doing that doesn't solve your problem. For example if you view porn because you're bored then solve that and hopefully your porn problem will go away. Mind you it's supposed to be worse then cocaine addiction but i've heard other things too are worse then a cocaine addiction, makes you think cocaine can't be all that bad

Agree unless it is an actual addiction. The problem is that some members of the church describe any porn use as an addiction. Porn use is a sin but use does not constitute an addiction any more then an LDS person liking a beer every weekend makes them an alcoholic.

I think porn addiction is underreported due to its normalization. I have said before that I expect porn addiction to be the next major health crisis in America and still expect this to happen. All that being said, a 15 year old who looks at porn every few weeks is probably not an addict.

[The Nehor]

3 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

Yes it could be all the issues associated with porn use: unhealthy marriages or remaining single...if bishops are reporting difficulty because of a large portion of members struggling with porn, one can assume the problem might handicap the entire ward including missionary, reactivation, and general edification efforts, which can all be linked to activity in the Church.

As a single guy I wish I could be offended but yeah, it is a problem amongst my peer group.  

[JLHPROF]

5 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

I think the term porn addiction is thrown around too often. To be a porn addict you have to not be able to go a day without it, while some people are labeled porn addicts who view porn only once every couple of months.

Addiction isn't measured in frequency but in ability to resist.
If you only viewed once a year but you were unable to NOT view once a year you are addicted.  It's an issue of where the control lies.

[Meadowchik]

26 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

As a single guy I wish I could be offended but yeah, it is a problem amongst my peer group.  

No one is immune.  A friend of mine was grateful a few weeks after her daughter started kindergarten that they had had a family talk warning of pornography just prior to it. Their daughter was approached by another six year old showing porn on his phone.

And there are adolescents struggling with porn addiction. 

[Meadowchik]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Addiction isn't measured in frequency but in ability to resist.
If you only viewed once a year but you were unable to NOT view once a year you are addicted.  It's an issue of where the control lies.

I think a doctor might only consider that  addiction if the person only typically desired sexual arousal once a year. Addiction is also about the inability to delay gratification. So delaying wanted gratification 364 days out of 365 could point to a healthy ability to delay and to not being addicted. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Meadowchik

[The Nehor]

16 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Addiction isn't measured in frequency but in ability to resist.
If you only viewed once a year but you were unable to NOT view once a year you are addicted.  It's an issue of where the control lies.

It depends. I have a friend in the Addiction Recovery Program who told the story (without giving a name) of someone who could get off cocaine for about a year but about every year had a life-destroying month. If someone is bored and looks at porn once a year or every three months because they want it it is not an addiction. If they are fighting tooth and nail with their brain chemistry DEMANDING gratification it probably is an addiction. People make plenty of bad choices that do not involve addiction. Otherwise you would have to argue that relationships (good and bad) are addictive.

[Duncan]

and there are bad habits, compulsions which may not be addictive. For example I watch Jimmy Fallon every night with cheese slices, meat and sometimes a coke or pepsi but when I haven't done that I don't go through withdrawals or I am not crawling on my hands and knees across the street to indulge in these things

[Calm]

6 hours ago, Duncan said:

but i've heard other things too are worse then a cocaine addiction, makes you think cocaine can't be all that bad

I wouldn't make that assumption.  I used to wake up sick as a dog every morning because my night time narcotic had worn off just an hour or two earlier.  I can't imagine what it would be like for something like cocaine considering that my dose was so low and I didn't  even get a wee high off of it.  Talk faster for a bit was all it did.  Even a small bit though over time the body gets used to and weaning off of it is like a long drawn out case of flu in the middle of a panic attack.  I had to live in a bathtub for a week or more...and I was only physically addicted, not emotionally ( forgot to take it all the time).