The Large Porn Bubble In The Middle Of The PP

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

My experience is that some men manage to live with that searing for decades, and the addiction is finally revealed by accident such as leaving a computer page open or by a catastrophic action such as abandoning the family or having an affair. 

Agreed

[Jeanne]

8 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Indeed, they seek to keep it a secret, from family, friends (those in their Wards) and continue to attend. This until their conscience is so "seared with a hot iron", and they can not longer endure the shame of being surrounded by those who seek to life the gospel. Being around the Spirit hurts..."...the wicked taketh the truth to be hard"...from the Book of Mormon, in 1st Nepji if I recall. 

Edit to add...

Porn often leads to adultery, and adultery is not q victimless crime. Based on the entire industry or porn and strip clubs, they should both a crime, as they leave countless families in ruins, which is even more destructive to children in those marriages. I know this first hand, as it led my bio-father into becoming a bigamist and leavening my mother (his legal wife, and his three children) homeless for a time...less than a month from Christmas. Any man who would cheat on his wife, would cheat and lie to any employer, and any future wife. I know that those who do this can repent, and become true...and I hope they could or will. It took me many years to forgive him. I never saw him again until his funeral, so thankfully I was able to write him and forgive him before he died. The odd thing that caused me so much to difficultly to forgive, was due to a phone call while I was a teenager (I am the youngest) telling my mom he was saved, and apologized for what he did, but did not ask to speak to any of his children.

So heartbreaking.  Now I, personally can see where Papa's experiences has given him the character and courage to get through this life as well as a great example of strength.

[Calm]

21 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Here's what I don't understand. In the Church If a married fella has sex it's not an addiction, but if a non married guy uses porno, they still have the same body reaction, but sex is good and porn is bad.

Porn and actual sex do not create the identical body reaction.  For one thing, the person is sharing control with someone else; porn gives a person complete control of timing and intensity of experience and relatively instant gratification.  One needs to be aware of more than just oneself with a healthy sexual relationship.  It wires the brain differently and the brain is part of the body.

A married person can have a sexual addiction, btw.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Duncan said:

I liked this not because you went through that situation but because of your willingness to share, it's appreciated!

Thanks, it is hard to do, to share this pain. The good part is that my mother married a Baptist minister and he adopted myself and my two siblings. He was a great father, changing our names from "Nation" to "Lee"...he was a great man. 

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Here's what I don't understand. In the Church If a married fella has sex it's not an addiction, but if a non married guy uses porno, they still have the same body reaction, but sex is good and porn is bad. Why aren't both addictions if the body reacts the same to both stimuli? Your mind can tell the difference between the real thing and not real but your brain can't as evidenced by physiological reactions when a dude sees sexual things. I think we all know what reactions i'm talking about. If porn is an addiction is sex an addiction? If a non married guy goes a week without using it what would happen if a married guy went without a week without sex? I am not arguing for porn use at all just the set up you usually hear in Priesthood classes, "a chemical cocktail is released and it's addicting and you can't stop" so are there different chemical released when a married man has sex if the body reacts the same way? I don't get it

The difference is porn can become and addition, to the point where men can no longer function with women. Not everyone who views porn is an addict, but continued viewing (especially) of sex acts can lead down a path that is difficult to turn back. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

So heartbreaking.  Now I, personally can see where Papa's experiences has given him the character and courage to get through this life as well as a great example of strength.

I thank you...ironically, bad examples can cause others to live better lives. My bio-father made me determined to never cause my wife such pain, or my children. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Bill "Papa" Lee

[mrmarklin]

I believe addiction to porn is rare. 

 

That 70% of LDS, or any group of men see porn occasionally is not surprising.

[dberrie2000]

35 minutes ago, mrmarklin said:

I believe addiction to porn is rare. 

 

 

We had a lot of rare cases attend our addiction recovery class.

[mrmarklin]

2 hours ago, dberrie2000 said:

We had a lot of rare cases attend our addiction recovery class.

Well, one would. 

 

Just like San Francisco where one out of every 3 men are gay. That's not typical. 

[MormonVideoGame]

3 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

I believe addiction to porn is rare. 

It is rare, and it is not considered an addiction in the medical field.  

I don't know anyone "addicted" to porn. Being addicted to porn is like being addicted to MDDB, facebook, youtube, sports, politics. 

2 hours ago, dberrie2000 said:

We had a lot of rare cases attend our addiction recovery class.

However, real scientific research shows that "People who consider themselves very religious and view Internet porn even once may perceive they are addicted"

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140212112843.htm

Edited March 6, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[Stargazer]

23 hours ago, rongo said:

Seconded. This sounds like "87% of statistics are made up" . . . 

There's no kind of apparatus for even gathering actual statistics on this. And random sampling from, say, addiction recovery groups would be like Kinsey gathering data from sex offenders in prison . . .  

All we, or Church headquarters, has on this is anecdotal evidence and personal experience --- which, for anyone and by any measure, would indicate that there is a big problem.

I found this article on the Huffington Post: Pornography Addiction Among Men is On The Rise

The article was published in 2014, so it's slightly dated, but I'd guess the problem has gotten worse, as the OP suggests.

[RevTestament]

6 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

You have the right to believe that porn is a sin, it's your religious freedom. 

Watching people sin in this manner, and financially supporting it and enabling it is a sin. There really is no question about it - if one wants to apply the NT standard for sin. To support sin is sin. Which is why Catholic hospitals don't want to perform abortions, etc, etc. 

The OT comparison would be David and Bathsheba. Seeing Bathsheba made David lust for another man's wife. Lusting for others outside the marriage covenant is the start of adultery, and is a sin of the heart according to Yeshua.

I personally believe the pornography epidemic is at least partially responsible for the seeming epidemic of homosexuality. Men don't see women quite the same way, and women get turned off being viewed as a sex conquest so decide they don't like men. Many boys who get exposed to this kind of thing at young ages end up deciding they are gay. For example although Milo Yiannopoulos denies it, I believe his early activities with a priest solidified his homosexuality, and who knows what porn he was exposed to which gave him the idea to consent to that relationship at 13.

[Bernard Gui]

7 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

 

So, do you like watching sports? Porn is like watching sports like wrestling, it is entertainment.

You have the right to believe that porn is a sin. 

No, it's nothing like watching sports. This is deception. Sports can be uplifting and  inspirational, motivating, beneficial, healthy, praiseworthy, something you would want your child to see or emulate, something you could share with family and friends. None of that applies to porn. 

Talk with someone addicted to it or to the wife of an addict. Or read what has been posted above. Then we can talk about it in real terms. Nothing good comes from it.

There's so much more attached to the sin. It becomes a crippling destructive illness and a curse to everyone connected to it.

But always remember, the Atonement can heal all hurt. Freedom is possible.

[Bernard Gui]

5 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

I believe addiction to porn is rare. 

 

That 70% of LDS, or any group of men see porn occasionally is not surprising.

Rare meaning what? How much destruction is acceptable before it is a problem?

See the statistics above.

Over our 9 years experience with family support groups, we have seen a dramatic and tragic increase in porn addiction.

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

It is rare, and it is not considered an addiction in the medical field.  

I don't know anyone "addicted" to porn. Being addicted to porn is like being addicted to MDDB, facebook, youtube, sports, politics. 

However, real scientific research shows that "People who consider themselves very religious and view Internet porn even once may perceive they are addicted"

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140212112843.htm

You can't possibly be more misinformed.

I know many personally. For most it began when they were children and now they are adults in their 20s, 30s, and 40s and can't stop even when faced with the loss of their families, church membership, jobs, and more. For example, a friend who was a highly respected law enforcement officer, father, church leader and secretly addicted to pornography was caught using on the computer in his police cruiser on the job. As things progressed, the extent of his problem and his inability to stop cost him everything I listed above. Who do you know lost it all to watching YouTube or NFL games?

For 9 years Sister Gui and I have met every Wednesday night from 7-9:30 with spouses and parents of loved ones in addiction. Our group has saved lives, including our own. The few times we were sick or unable to attend, the meetings went on with others leading. More and more of the loved ones are not related to substance abusers but to porn abusers and now more frequently both. The destruction accompanying porn addiction for the user and the family is just as devastating as that of drug addiction. It is awful.

The tide is rapidly changing against the deniers, however, as more and more people wake up to the threat it is posing. Children have become the targets. Early exposure is akin to the worst kind of child abuse. Parents must be more vigilant than ever.

This is sad news. It's a hard road, but healing is available. I have seen it happen with my own two eyes.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[dberrie2000]

7 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

However, real scientific research shows that "People who consider themselves very religious and view Internet porn even once may perceive they are addicted"

 

Hi Mormon:

There are things which can have addictive powers on some people after the first exposure. I believe anyone who has a conviction they could be addicted after the first experience is smart to seek help at that point. Burned down houses is not the point one should decide to throw water.

There are those who realize there is a change in the presence of the Spirit within them after the first exposure, and seek help to be reunited with the Spirit. Anyone who believes they can maintain the presence of the Spirit without repentance from pornography, is not being honest with themselves--and sometimes the Spirit removes itself from that situation so quickly--it alarms the viewer. They are the wise ones, IMO.

[MormonVideoGame]

8 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

There's so much more attached to the sin. It becomes a crippling destructive illness and a curse to everyone connected to it..

Really? CFR that porn is a destructive illness.  

You won't hear such claims in less religious countries like Sweden, Denmark, Austria. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/04/14/map-these-are-the-worlds-least-religious-countries/

 

[MormonVideoGame]

7 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

You can't possibly be more misinformed.

but you give no references 

[MormonVideoGame]

10 hours ago, Stargazer said:

The article was published in 2014, so it's slightly dated, but I'd guess the problem has gotten worse, as the OP suggests.

It is fine to believe porn is a sin or a problem, but there is no evidence that porn is a significant problem (not statistically) in society. So CFR that porn is a problem (statistically).  I don't know anyone that didn't show up to work because he was watching porn.  

The only problem is divorce, but spouses also leave their husbands for losing religious faith, which is not a good reason.  

Edited March 6, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[Bernard Gui]

57 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said:

Really? CFR that porn is a destructive illness.  

You won't hear such claims in less religious countries like Sweden, Denmark, Austria. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/04/14/map-these-are-the-worlds-least-religious-countries/

 

Really. You seem to be playing with semantics. Addiction to porn is the illness. Heroin, alcohol, cocaine, meth, opiates, PCP, marijuana aren't illnesses, but addiction to them is.

I have already provided non-LDS references on page 4 of this discussion and given examples of working with victims for nine years. I have many more personal contacts with addicts and their families, but I won't detail them here.

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/understanding_why_pornography_addiction_is_a_brain_disease

Perhaps you could attend an ARP meeting in your area to see for yourself what is happening. There are probably several close to where you live. They are anonymous and free. You may find one here:

https://addictionrecovery.lds.org/find-a-meeting?lang=eng

You may also explore these sites.

https://www.overcomingpornography.org/spouses-and-families?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/topics/pornography?lang=eng

http://www.ldshopeandrecovery.com

I encourage anyone who might be reading this and is struggling with this illness to go to these sites. You will find help and hope. It takes great courage to take the first steps, but it may save you and your family.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Tacenda]

9 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Rare meaning what? How much destruction is acceptable before it is a problem?

See the statistics above.

Over our 9 years experience with family support groups, we have seen a dramatic and tragic increase in porn addiction.

Bernard, my husband isn't buying the 70%, did I miss where this was referenced or substantiated?

[MormonVideoGame]

48 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I have already provided non-LDS references on page 4 of this discussion and given examples of working with victims for nine years.

You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet. You can find anything you want to find on the internet. 

CFR from a medical organization or a research paper published in a reputable journal. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[MormonVideoGame]

24 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Bernard, my husband isn't buying the 70%, did I miss where this was referenced or substantiated?

Dr. Barry Komisaruk, a Rutgers University psychologist who has done groundbreaking neuroscience research on the brain during orgasm, also says that there are no studies demonstrating that porn’s effect on the brain resembles addiction 

Few people watch porn for hours every day, "a clearly self-destructive behavior that’s often more about the internet than about porn"

http://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/skeptical-of-the-porn-skeptics/#note12

Porn is not an addiction in the medical field. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[Bernard Gui]

24 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said:

You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet. You can find anything you want to find on the internet. 

CFR from a medical organization or a research paper published in a reputable journal. 

I'm sorry but I have to take a few minutes to stop laughing. I have provided what you need. You'll have to live with it or leave it. 

Will you accept my invitation to attend an ARP meeting? I can help you locate one. Until you do, you have little credibility.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Bernard, my husband isn't buying the 70%, did I miss where this was referenced or substantiated?

Statistics are all over the map. Earlier I cited this article.

https://www.webroot.com/us/en/home/resources/tips/digital-family-life/internet-pornography-by-the-numbers

I'm not sure what rare means or what we are to infer from it. If it means that in a typical ward only 9 or 10 boys and men struggle with porn addiction, is that rare? Even if it were only 2 or 3, we should still be concerned, rare or not. I'm inclined to go with the higher numbers and that they are growing based on my own anecdotal experience and meetings with other ARP workers, but do I have the hard statistics? I don't know how we could obtain current stats or how accurate they might be. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Bernard Gui