Do you think there has been a revelation from God since Joseph Smith's time?

[california boy]

This kind of relates to the thread about fallibility of prophets.  Though I think it is specific enough to have it's own thread.  The question is:  What revelations from God do you think the prophets have received directly from Him since the time of Joseph Smith?  Do you think that heavenly messengers and even Christ Himself has visited the prophet?  Can any statement by any prophet since Joseph Smith's time start with "Thus sayth the Lord?

I am not talking about feelings of the Spirit that we can all have.  Or perhaps feelings of the Spirit that the prophet has concerning the church.  I am talking about communicating as Abraham of old "face to face as one man speaks to another".   Or is that kind of revelation a thing of the past??  Is the Holy Ghost the only communicator of God's will in the church today?

[RevTestament]

I have received revelations directly from the Lord, although I do not  consider myself to be a prophet.

[Jeanne]

I believe I have had some real goosebumps and tremendous feelings that portended to at least one real prophecy.  But I tend to think that the biggest revelation I have had for myself seem to trump all those other said revelations/policies.  I call them.."ah hah" moments.

Edited to add..No..I don't believe there has been real prophecy ..There hasn't been one thing that has really affected me from Brigham Young and others that followed.  There have been changes, yes, which have been called prophecy..and I hope to see more changes..but so much I have seen as an adult has been actually a cultural or change for the times kind of thing.  I don't see the divine prophecies that others do.

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2016 by Jeanne

[Gillebre]

The Family: A Proclamation To The World.

 

Quote

we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.

 

[Eek!]

I have no problem with accepting Joseph F. Smith's vision (Section 138) as a revelation.

To their credit, when the leadership of the LDS Church has felt the need to put their weight behind something, they have issued an "Official Declaration", rather than trying to write a "Thus saith the Lord" revelation.  The Reorganized LDS Church (now Community of Christ) has produced a number of so-called "revelations" that imo fall flat after having read what Joseph Smith produced. 

[VideoGameJunkie]

Russell M Nelson said the gay policy in November was revelation.

[mfbukowski]

2 hours ago, california boy said:

This kind of relates to the thread about fallibility of prophets.  Though I think it is specific enough to have it's own thread.  The question is:  What revelations from God do you think the prophets have received directly from Him since the time of Joseph Smith?  Do you think that heavenly messengers and even Christ Himself has visited the prophet?  Can any statement by any prophet since Joseph Smith's time start with "Thus sayth the Lord?

I am not talking about feelings of the Spirit that we can all have.  Or perhaps feelings of the Spirit that the prophet has concerning the church.  I am talking about communicating as Abraham of old "face to face as one man speaks to another".   Or is that kind of revelation a thing of the past??  Is the Holy Ghost the only communicator of God's will in the church today?

I also receive revelations all the time and find the ability to do so dependent on how well I am keeping the commandments

And yes I know people who have seen Christ face to face but they are not going to talk about it here, and perhaps you should know that if you do not.

You have painted yourself into an epistemological corner.  Those who have something to say about it certainly will not discuss it here so you "can't get there from here".

And also, whether or not prophets see Christ is unverifiable anyway so it's silly to speculate either way.   The gospel is less than 200 years old, and we still have had our share of changes.  

We make a change and people say the gospel should not change and others say we should make more changes.

It's all just critics spouting off about things they cannot possibly understand.  

[mfbukowski]

If I tell you I know someone who saw Christ you will say "How do you know he is not lying"?

So why do you think Joseph was not lying?

Either you believe or you don't.  No evidence to satisfy curious onlookers is possible

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Gillebre said:

The Family: A Proclamation To The World.

 

 

It turns classical Christianity on its head.!   Absolutely major revelation

[Kevin Christensen]

See for instance, Greg Smith's essay responding to Snuffer:

http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/passing-up-the-heavenly-gift-part-one-of-two/

http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/passing-up-the-heavenly-gift-part-two-of-two/

As well as such esoteric writings such as D&C 136, given to Brigham Youg, D&C 138 given to Joseph F. Smith in 138, excerpts from Three Addresses by President Wilfred Woodruff regarding the Manifesto, as well as other non-canonical accounts, such as gathered by Greg Smith.

I've long been fond of this report by Brigham Young:

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/097-86.pdf

And a 1974 Conference on ongoing and non-canonical but received and recorded revelations as discussed in Conference by one Boyd K. Packer.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1974/04/we-believe-all-that-god-has-revealed?lang=eng

And of course, D&C 1 on how God has spoken to "others" besides Joseph Smith, which means we can also look at non-LDS accounts with an open mind and discerning spirit.  

Here for example:

http://publications.mi.byu.edu/fullscreen/?pub=1382&index=2

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

Edited June 26, 2016 by Kevin Christensen
Included link to Packer, 1974

[Glenn101]

1978

 

[The Nehor]

I got one yesterday.

[Robert F. Smith]

In his journal, Wilford Woodruff describes a prophet whom he knew as a young man, who preceded Joseph Smith;  Robert Mason, who predicted the rise of the LDS Church as a vision, and told Woodruff that he would be part of it.

[VideoGameJunkie]

The 1978 priesthood ban being lifted definitely.

[TheSkepticChristian]

10 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

In his journal, Wilford Woodruff describes a prophet whom he knew as a young man, who preceded Joseph Smith;  Robert Mason, who predicted the rise of the LDS Church as a vision, and told Woodruff that he would be part of it.

I just wonder, any prophet or apostle that claimed to see Jesus? 

[Robert F. Smith]

Hebrew nābʼî  Aprophet, one called by God@ (Mari nabû “diviner”; Akkadian nabû “to name, call”) = I Corinthians 12:28-29, Ephesians 4:11 prophētēs πρoφήτης Aprophet.@  So too, Hebrew nbʼ “to prophesy” (Arabic nbʼ “to inform, announce”) = Greek prophēmi “to foretell, inform.”[1]

Despite the common notion that prophets lack “an independent will,” according to Yohanan Muffs, a prophet is actually an “agent of the Lord.”[2]  However, Muffs continues, a “prophet has another function: He is also an independent advocate to the heavenly court,”[3] but he is both “the messenger of the divine court to the defendant,” and also “the agent of the defendant, attempting to mitigate the severity of the divine decree.”  In Genesis 18:17-25, for example, “God’s hands are tied until Abraham, a human being, makes a request–that is, until a prophet intercedes.”[4]  So too, Moses argues with God that, deserving or not, God is obligated to clear His own name and reputation by redeeming His people – “even though they do not deserve” it.  Moreover, Heaven forbid that God might breach His own unconditional covenant!![5] (cf. Exodus 32:7-13, Numbers 14:15-16; Deuteronomy 9:26-29)  Prophets might actually carry out divinely ordered executions, as in the case of Samuel slaying Agag, King of the Amaleqites (1 Samuel 15:33),[6] or of Nephi slaying Laban, a Captain of Fifty in Jerusalem (1 Nephi 3:29-4:3,7-18).

“The usual definition of a prophet–someone whose prophecies come true–is really quite superficial,” Muffs points out.  “The first function of a prophet is to announce the Lord’s punishment and to call on the people to repent,” i.e., as “the messenger of the Lord.”  The second “function of the prophet is . . . to go into the breach, to build a protective wall and to prepare for the battle against the Lord.  The prophet is like a mighty warrior, but his only strength is his eloquence, the strength of his prayer, which may deflect the Lord from destroying his people.”[7]  “The breach that the prophet must protect is the breach of sin.  The enemy is not the army of the gentiles that is placing a siege around Jerusalem.  The Lord himself is the enemy, the warrior who is setting his face against Jerusalem to destroy it,”[8] and this was as true for Lehi as it was for Jeremiah.  Muffs concludes: 

Quote

Prophecy does not annihilate the personal independence of the prophet; it demands such autonomy as a prerequisite for the prophetic role.  Only boundless spiritual bravery allows the prophet to suffer the great loneliness of one who stands in the breach, calling on people who do not listen and a God who just might.[9]

The Jaredite equivalent may have been Akkadian muḫḫû, muḫḫūtu, maḫḫû “prophet, ecstatic prophet (Sumerian annibatu), cultic performer” (Sumerian ansala, MU.AN.SAL.LA; luʼede, lu₂-ed₃-de₃; lu₂-al-ed₂-de₃; luguba, lu₂-gub-ba; lunisub, lu₂-ni₂-su-ub, which also correspond variously to Akkadian aḫurrû, kurgarrû, assinnu “cult functionary,” zabbu).[10]   Cf. also Mari āpilu, āpiltu “answerer.”  Such prophets were often organized into a college of seers (barû-college),[11] which performed various cultic divinitory functions, such as liver extispicy,[12] astral magic, etc.[13]  At Ugarit, as in biblical “’consultations’ the ‘messenger’ (malʼāk) of the king and of Yahweh recurs constantly (cf. Jg 13:3ff.; 2 Kg 1:2ff.).”[14]  There are also many other parallels among the prophets of Mari, Ugarit, and Israel.[15]

[1] Cf. H. B. Huffmon, “Ancient Near Eastern Prophecy,” in D. Freedman, ABD, V:477-482.

[2] Yochanan Muffs, “Agent of the Lord, Warrior for the People: The Prophet’s Paradox,” Bible Review, 18/6 (Dec 2002):21.

[3] Muffs,  Bible Review, 18/6 (Dec 2002):21-22.

[4] Muffs,  Bible Review, 18/6 (Dec 2002: 22.

[5] Muffs,  Bible Review, 18/6 (Dec 2002):23-24.

[6] Muffs,  Bible Review, 18/6 (Dec 2002):24.

[7] Muffs,  Bible Review, 18/6 (Dec 2002):27.

[8] Muffs,  Bible Review, 18/6 (Dec 2002):27.

[9] Muffs,  Bible Review, 18/6 (Dec 2002):56.

[10] ePSD.

[11] Ivan Starr, "The Baru Rituals," unpublished doctoral dissertation (Yale Univ., 1974) [bārū "seer"]; A. L. Oppenheim, Ancient Mesopotamia (1964), 206ff.

[12] Cf. A. Finet and J. Aro on liver extispicy in La Divination en Mesopotamie Ancienne, 14e Recontre Assyr­iologique Internationale (1966).

[13] Erica Reiner, “Astral Magic in Babylonia,” TAPS, 85/4 (Philadelphia, 1995), online at https://archive.org/stream/AstralMagicInBabylonia/Reiner_astral_magic_in_babylonia#page/n1/mode/2up ; cf. S. Ahituv in Encyclopaedia Judaica, VI:111-116 (esp. column 114), citing W. Albright, Yahweh and the Gods of Canaan (Garden City, N.Y., 1968), 123-194 (= 107-168 in London ed.).

[14] G. del Olmo Lete, Canaanite Religion, 2^nd ed., 263 n62.

[15] A. Malamat, “A Forerunner of Biblical Prophecy: The Mari Documents,” in P. Miller, ed., Ancient Israelite Religion (Phila., 1987), 33-47; Malamat, Mari and The Early Israelite Experience (Oxford, 1989); Malamat, “Parallels between the New Prophecies from Mari and Biblical Prophecy: 1) Predicting the Death of a Royal Infant,” NABU, 4 (1989):88; cited in del Olmo Lete, Canaanite Religion, 2^nd ed., 48, 262.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Robert F. Smith

[Robert F. Smith]

13 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

I just wonder, any prophet or apostle that claimed to see Jesus? 

Being a prophet or apostle does not require that one actually see Jesus, in vision or in person, although some of them claim to have done so.

[TheSkepticChristian]

3 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Being a prophet or apostle does not require that one actually see Jesus, in vision or in person

I know, but it does make you wonder 

3 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

 although some of them claim to have done so.

after Joseph Smith? For example? CFR 

Edited June 26, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian

[Robert F. Smith]

Just now, TheSkepticChristian said:

I know, but it does make you wonder 

Since Joseph Smith? For example? CFR 

I was thinking of biblical examples, such as Stephen, Abraham, etc., which are rare.

[TheSkepticChristian]

1 minute ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I was thinking of biblical examples, such as Stephen, Abraham, etc., which are rare.

So any 20th or 21st century prophet or apostle that claimed to see Jesus? 

[Five Solas]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

It turns classical Christianity on its head.!   Absolutely major revelation

Heh.  Given Joseph Smith repudiated the tenets of the Christian Faith (e.g., ex nihilo creation, the Trinity, the Incarnation) and substituted altogether different ideas from the 1830's to the mid 1840's--I think it's safe to say that whatever the 1990's LDS Church achieved with their Family Proclamation, it was comparatively modest... 

;0)

--Erik

 

[Robert F. Smith]

16 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

So any 20th or 21st century prophet or apostle that claimed to see Jesus? 

If so, they haven't confided that to me.  Of course, as pointed out by Mark Bukowski, they would be unlikely to do so.

[Robert F. Smith]

9 minutes ago, Five Solas said:

Heh.  Given Joseph Smith repudiated the tenets of the Christian Faith (e.g., ex nihilo creation, the Trinity, the Incarnation) and substituted altogether different ideas from the 1830's to the mid 1840's--I think it's safe to say that whatever the 1990's LDS Church achieved with their Family Proclamation, it was comparatively modest... 

;0)

--Erik

 

Yes, he did repudiate the tenets of false christianity and restored true Christianity (the restoration of all things in the last days).  Everything seems small after that.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, california boy said:

This kind of relates to the thread about fallibility of prophets.  Though I think it is specific enough to have it's own thread.  The question is:  What revelations from God do you think the prophets have received directly from Him since the time of Joseph Smith?  Do you think that heavenly messengers and even Christ Himself has visited the prophet?  Can any statement by any prophet since Joseph Smith's time start with "Thus sayth the Lord?

I am not talking about feelings of the Spirit that we can all have.  Or perhaps feelings of the Spirit that the prophet has concerning the church.  I am talking about communicating as Abraham of old "face to face as one man speaks to another".   Or is that kind of revelation a thing of the past??  Is the Holy Ghost the only communicator of God's will in the church today?

Brigham Young

Yes, Oct 4, 1918, section 138, Joseph F Smith...if memory serves. Revelation and vision of Slavation for the Dead. 

Wilford Woodruff...end of polygamy Declaration 1 (Manfesto) 

Spencer W Kimball...end of ban concerning Priesthood Declaration 2

 

[CV75]

5 hours ago, california boy said:

This kind of relates to the thread about fallibility of prophets.  Though I think it is specific enough to have it's own thread.  The question is:  What revelations from God do you think the prophets have received directly from Him since the time of Joseph Smith?  Do you think that heavenly messengers and even Christ Himself has visited the prophet?  Can any statement by any prophet since Joseph Smith's time start with "Thus sayth the Lord?

I am not talking about feelings of the Spirit that we can all have.  Or perhaps feelings of the Spirit that the prophet has concerning the church.  I am talking about communicating as Abraham of old "face to face as one man speaks to another".   Or is that kind of revelation a thing of the past??  Is the Holy Ghost the only communicator of God's will in the church today?

When using the term, “face to face, as one man talketh with another,” it is good to understand that “man is spirit” and that man’s physical element “is the tabernacle of God.” So yes, that kind of communication happens all the time.

The Holy Ghost communicates nothing the Lord hasn’t said or approved first as The Messenger. His primary role is to witness that the Lord approved the message.

The phrase, “Thus sayeth the Lord” goes without saying, according to D&C 68:4. The same with the term, “direct.” It wouldn’t surprise me that heavenly messengers and Christ have visited any of the prophets since Joseph Smith’s time (or vice-versa, according to D&C 138). And so of course any statement can be prefixed with, “Thus sayeth the Lord.” And any calling the prophet issues is essentially a "Thus saith the Lord" type of communication.