The November policy change was reaffirmed as revelation in the Oct. Ensign

[phaedrus ut]

I just saw the October 2016 Ensign article Stand as True Millennials by Russell M. Nelson that reaffirmed the November policy change regarding same sex married couples as officially apostates and denying baptism to their children.  Under section 3 it says

 

Quote

This prophetic process was followed in 2012 with the change in minimum age for missionaries and again with the recent additions to the Church’s handbook, consequent to the legalization of same-sex marriage in some countries. Filled with compassion for all, and especially for the children, we wrestled at length to understand the Lord’s will in this matter.

Ever mindful of God’s plan of salvation and of His hope for eternal life for each of His children, we considered countless permutations and combinations of possible scenarios that could arise. We met repeatedly in the temple in fasting and prayer and sought further direction and inspiration. And then, when the Lord inspired His prophet, President Thomas S. Monson, to declare the mind and will of the Lord, each of us during that sacred moment felt a spiritual confirmation. It was our privilege as Apostles to sustain what had been revealed to President Monson. Revelation from the Lord to His servants is a sacred process, and so is your privilege of receiving personal revelation.

Surveys have show that support for same sex marriage is strongest among millennials and this includes Mormon millennials. Was this a way to draw a line in the sand saying you can't be a "True Mormon Millennial" and support gay marriage because it's literally "the mind and will of the Lord"?

 

Phaedrus 

 

[Tacenda]

Two steps forward, two steps back...I think I'm doing the two-step. I hate reading that this was cemented in the Ensign, but it is what it is I guess. What to do, what to do.

[cdowis]

14 minutes ago, phaedrus ut said:

Surveys have show that support for same sex marriage is strongest among millennials and this includes Mormon millennials. Was this a way to draw a line in the sand saying you can't be a "True Mormon Millennial" and support gay marriage because it's literally "the mind and will of the Lord"?

It means, as Pres. Uchtdorf remarked, there is no sign outside the church that says "Only those with faith this tall can enter."  For some members,  it is just one among many challenges we will face in our lifetime.

"Don't worry about it."  (cdowis)

Edited September 29, 2016 by cdowis

[phaedrus ut]

18 minutes ago, cdowis said:

It means, as Pres. Uchtdorf remarked, there is no sign outside the church that says "Only those with faith this tall can enter."  For some members,  it is just one among many challenges we will face in our lifetime.

"Don't worry about it."  (cdowis)

Mormonism has more tests of orthodoxy and correct faith than any other Christian religion I know.  Sure you can enter the building but if you want to be baptized, advanced in the priesthood, set apart for a calling, or get a temple recommend it requires a interview with an authority who certifies that you have the right beliefs and none of the wrong beliefs.  

My good friends 70 year old parents recently couldn't renew their temple recommends for the first time in 50 years because they support their gay daughter and her wife.  I fail to see where they have sinned or are unworthy of their recommend but apparently the Stake President doesn't agree. 

 

Phaedrus

 

[The Nehor]

18 minutes ago, phaedrus ut said:

Mormonism has more tests of orthodoxy and correct faith than any other Christian religion I know.  Sure you can enter the building but if you want to be baptized, advanced in the priesthood, set apart for a calling, or get a temple recommend it requires a interview with an authority who certifies that you have the right beliefs and none of the wrong beliefs.  

Never heard of the Jehovah's Witnesses I take it? Or the Amish? Or about a dozen other faiths I can think of?

[ERayR]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Two steps forward, two steps back...I think I'm doing the two-step. I hate reading that this was cemented in the Ensign, but it is what it is I guess. What to do, what to do.

You could start campaigning to be elected president of the church.

[Tacenda]

nevermind

Edited September 29, 2016 by Tacenda

[Jeanne]

Very saddened by this..I was hopeful that this would change and yet, I am not surprised.

[phaedrus ut]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Never heard of the Jehovah's Witnesses I take it? Or the Amish? Or about a dozen other faiths I can think of?

I was a student at a large divinity school so I have experienced many different Christian religious groups with various ecumenical events.  I don't know the specifics of the JW's so I don't have an opinion there but I have spent a degree of time with the with a few Amish and Menonnite communities.  I don't know the ultraconservative groups but the rest I wouldn't characterize as having religious test greater than a Mormon renewing their temple recommend.  

[Five Solas]

2 hours ago, phaedrus ut said:

I just saw the October 2016 Ensign article Stand as True Millennials by Russell M. Nelson that reaffirmed the November policy change regarding same sex married couples as officially apostates and denying baptism to their children...

I wonder if by addressing this specific generation by name and admonishing them to be "true millennials," LDS Church senior leadership isn't tacitly acknowledging they have a problem here.  We've discussed this at some length before:

And can anyone imagine an LDS authority 20 years ago saying, "Stand as True Gen-Xers" (which invariably calls to mind musician Billy Idol, who inspired the name & of whom Nelson would likely not approve).  Or 40 years ago, Stand as True Baby Boomers! 

Feels a little silly, doesn't it?

;0) 

--Erik

[smac97]

In a way, I find it grimly satisfying that the Brethren are saying and doing some things that, in my mind, are A) unpopular in the eyes of the World, and B) plainly in accordance with revealed truths and are themselves revelatory.

Our lot as Latter-day Saints is not to adhere to inspired/revelatory counsel from the Brethren because it is popular.  Our lot is to adhere to such counsel because it is right.  And when doing so is right and unpopular, well . . . that's what the Spirit is for.

Thanks,

-Smac

 

Edited September 30, 2016 by smac97

[Gray]

Doubling down on this is very unwise. 

[omni]

27 minutes ago, smac97 said:

In a way, I find it grimly satisfying that the Brethren are saying and doing some things that, in my mind, are A) unpopular in the eyes of the World, and B) plainly in accordance with revealed truths and are themselves revelatory.

Our lot as Latter-day Saints is not to adhere to inspired/revelatory counsel from the Brethren because it is popular.  Our lot is to adhere to such counsel because it is right.  And when doing so is right and unpopular, well . . . that's what the Spirit is for.

Thanks,

-Smac

 

What's odd is that the Lord waited so long to reveal his will (the policy).  Gays have been able marry for years in many parts of the world and have been in committed relationships for much longer.  

Apparently the Lord had been okay with the children of gay couples getting baptized, but changed his mind in 2015.

It's almost as if the revelation was a bit more human inspired rather than divinely inspired.

[Teancum]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Never heard of the Jehovah's Witnesses I take it? Or the Amish? Or about a dozen other faiths I can think of?

CFR  that these or any other faiths have anything like the biannual requirement to be interviewed by two ecclesiastical leaders to participate in their religion's highest rites and ordinances.

[cdowis]

5 hours ago, phaedrus ut said:

Mormonism has more tests of orthodoxy and correct faith than any other Christian religion I know.  

Hallelujah!!

Sure you can enter the building but if you want to be baptized, advanced in the priesthood, set apart for a calling, or get a temple recommend it requires a interview with an authority who certifies that you have the right beliefs and none of the wrong beliefs.  

And you can then come to realize realize that you are not prepared to make those covenants in the temple.  That is the real point of the interview, because entering the temple is a very serious decision, not to be made lightly.

It is not merely a social event.

My good friends 70 year old parents recently couldn't renew their temple recommends for the first time in 50 years because they support their gay daughter and her wife.  I fail to see where they have sinned or are unworthy of their recommend but apparently the Stake President doesn't agree.
 Do you affiliate with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or do you sympathize with the precepts of any such group or individual?  The Bishop is the ultimate judge of this issue.

 

 

[cdowis]

del

Edited September 30, 2016 by cdowis

[carbon dioxide]

6 hours ago, phaedrus ut said:

My good friends 70 year old parents recently couldn't renew their temple recommends for the first time in 50 years because they support their gay daughter and her wife.  I fail to see where they have sinned or are unworthy of their recommend but apparently the Stake President doesn't agree. 

 

Phaedrus

 

Why would their support of their gay daughter even come up in the interview?

Edited September 30, 2016 by carbon dioxide

[cdowis]

27 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Why would their support of their gay daughter even come up in the interview?

 Do you affiliate with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or do you sympathize with the precepts of any such group or individual?

[Duncan]

9 minutes ago, cdowis said:

 Do you affiliate with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or do you sympathize with the precepts of any such group or individual?

Our Stake affiliates with the Catholic Church for a Christmas sing song night thing every year, does that count? Didn't the Church back gay right groups in Utah for fair access to housing? is that different I wonder then what they mean in the TR interview

[Scott Lloyd]

So I guess dropping the reference to President Nelson's talk from the seminary lesson didn't carry the significance some here thought it did. 

[Scott Lloyd]

10 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Our Stake affiliates with the Catholic Church for a Christmas sing song night thing every year, does that count? Didn't the Church back gay right groups in Utah for fair access to housing? is that different I wonder then what they mean in the TR interview

I think it pertains to affiliation with apostate groups such as those practicing polygamy. 

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Teancum said:

CFR  that these or any other faiths have anything like the biannual requirement to be interviewed by two ecclesiastical leaders to participate in their religion's highest rites and ordinances.

CFR that the statement I was responding to specifically required a biannual interview.

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, Five Solas said:

I wonder if by addressing this specific generation by name and admonishing them to be "true millennials," LDS Church senior leadership isn't tacitly acknowledging they have a problem here.  We've discussed this at some length before:

And can anyone imagine an LDS authority 20 years ago saying, "Stand as True Gen-Xers" (which invariably calls to mind musician Billy Idol, who inspired the name & of whom Nelson would likely not approve).  Or 40 years ago, Stand as True Baby Boomers! 

Feels a little silly, doesn't it?

;0) 

--Erik

It is amazing to me how people how fail to grasp even the most basic points when the Apostles speak imagine they have some great insight that enables them to see through the address itself into exactly what may have prompted it.

Hmmm....maybe he was comfortable using the word millenial because it doesn't sound stupid? I am a gen-Xer and we had many similar talks warning us about the pitfalls of life. It is almost as if you are only seeing what you want to see.

4 hours ago, Gray said:

Doubling down on this is very unwise. 

We double down on a lot of things it seems unwise to double down on. Why stop now?

[Scott Lloyd]

8 hours ago, phaedrus ut said:

I just saw the October 2016 Ensign article Stand as True Millennials by Russell M. Nelson that reaffirmed the November policy change regarding same sex married couples as officially apostates and denying baptism to their children.  Under section 3 it says

 

Surveys have show that support for same sex marriage is strongest among millennials and this includes Mormon millennials. Was this a way to draw a line in the sand saying you can't be a "True Mormon Millennial" and support gay marriage because it's literally "the mind and will of the Lord"?

 

Phaedrus 

 

See the quote in my signature, the one from Sister Oscarson. 

[Bobbieaware]

7 hours ago, Gray said:

Doubling down on this is very unwise. 

Is "doubling down on this" still unwise even if President Russell is correct in saying the policy came by way of revelation from God? Or don't you believe President Nelson when he testified President Monson and the other 14 whom we sustain as prophets, seers and revelators received the policy as a revelation from God? Does political correctness and a longing for popularity with the world trump revelation from Almighty God?

Edited September 30, 2016 by Bobbieaware