The Seven Levels of Mankind

[Alaris]

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2017/06/the-seven-levels-of-mankind.html

I started my blog about 8 months ago, but the above article really serves as the foundation. My father in law wrote an amazing paper on the eight uses of the word "overcometh" in revelation and how they pertain to a successive ladder of rewards we traverse on the path to Godhood. The first seven are given to the seven churches of Asia in chapters 2 and 3--many christians believe these chapters are messages to the ancient christians only and pay them no heed--however, encoded in these messages are they keys to unlock an understanding of eternal progression. The eighth use of overcometh is given near the end of Revelation and is the level exclusive to the Son of God. 

1. Revelation 2:7 To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

2. Revelation 2:11 He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

3. Revelation 2:17 To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

4. Revelation 2:26-28 And to him who overcometh, and keepeth my commandments unto the end, will I give power over many kingdoms; And he shall rule them with the word of God; and they shall be in his hands as the vessels of clay in the hands of a potter; and he shall govern them by faith, with equity and justice, even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star.

5. Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

6. Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

7. Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

8. Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

I have shared my articles over on ldsfreedomforum though I have felt it's time to expand my audience, so here I am. There are seven articles I've written on the seven levels of mankind, all of which are linked on the left. There are articles on the Davidic Servant as well, though I would prefer to discuss those here in a separate thread. Thank you.

Alaris

 

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Alaris
adding the 8 levels of overcoming

[JLHPROF]

These verses refer to the blessings of exaltation and have direct relationship to the things of D&C 76:50-70 and the temple.

(Oh, and be careful advertising - that's a no-no around here)

[Alaris]

19 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

These verses refer to the blessings of exaltation and have direct relationship to the things of D&C 76:50-70 and the temple.

(Oh, and be careful advertising - that's a no-no around here)

My articles / blog have no advertisements. No filthy lucre for me, thank you very much.

I make many - respectful - references to the temple in my articles. As for D&C 76:50-70, you are absolutely correct, though those verses do not delineate the levels of progression - nor do they align them to the patriarchs and dispensations.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Alaris

[Robert F. Smith]

I would appreciate it, if you could categorize or label each of these seven levels.  Are they seven dispensations?  Sequential esoterica?

Quote

1. Revelation 2:7 To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
2. Revelation 2:11 He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
3. Revelation 2:17 To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
4. Revelation 2:26-28 And to him who overcometh, and keepeth my commandments unto the end, will I give power over many kingdoms; And he shall rule them with the word of God; and they shall be in his hands as the vessels of clay in the hands of a potter; and he shall govern them by faith, with equity and justice, even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star.
5. Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6. Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
7. Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
8. Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Robert F. Smith

[Alaris]

11 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I would appreciate it, if you could categorize or label each of these seven levels.  Are they seven dispensations?  Sequential esoterica?

 

Thanks Robert. They are seven levels of eternal progression, and they are indeed sequential. The mystery here is simple, yet profound so there absolutely is an element of esoteric knowledge in accordance to the mysteries as outlined in the scriptures. This is all covered in the articles I have written, but I will address the question here.

As many, if not most, LDS believe, my father-in-law believes these levels of overcoming all occur sometime after the resurrection, in resurrected bodies. Some LDS believe, as I do, that these levels of progression occur simultaneously in worlds such as our own. Meaning, that though we distinguished ourselves premortally through our faithfulness, there is a reason so little has been defined as to what "premortality" is. This is sounding way more mysterious than I intended. Let's get real simple:

The seven levels of progression are aligned to the seven dispensation, though they are inverted. Here is a great PDF that shows the seven great dispensations from LDS.org:

https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/images/gospel-library/manual/32489/32489_000_004_06_dispensation.pdf

There are a few key verses that demonstrate that the first seven levels of overcoming as given in Revelation 2 an 3 are aligned to the dispensations--inverted. The first clue is the third level of overcoming:

Quote

 Revelation 2:17 To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Manna - This clue aligns the third level to Moses and his dispensation. 

The next overt clue is the sixth level of overcoming:

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

New Jerusalem which comes out of heaven - whose dispensation might that be?

Quote

 

Moses 7:62 And righteousness will I send down out of heaven; and truth will I send forth out of the earth, to bear testimony of mine Only Begotten; his resurrection from the dead; yea, and also the resurrection of all men; and righteousness and truth will I cause to sweep the earth as with a flood, to gather out mine elect from the four quarters of the earth, unto a place which I shall prepare, an Holy City, that my people may gird up their loins, and be looking forth for the time of my coming; for there shall be my tabernacle, and it shall be called Zion, a New Jerusalem.

63 And the Lord said unto Enoch: Then shalt thou and all thy city meet them there, and we will receive them into our bosom, and they shall see us; and we will fall upon their necks, and they shall fall upon our necks, and we will kiss each other;

 

New Jerusalem which comes out of heaven - Enoch.  So with these two points we can go ahead and align and then look for more clues.

Levels of Overcoming / Dispensation Patriarchs

1 Joseph Smith

2 Peter

3 Moses

4 Abraham

5 Noah

6 Enoch

7 Adam

Let's look at a few more clues. The 4th level of overcoming - the promised reward for overcoming level 4 - is power over kingdoms and increase. Abraham.

The second level of overcoming - salvation from spiritual death - is overcome through accepting Christ. This aligns to Peter, the first dispensation where the gospel is sent to the world. Baptism brings souls to level 3, or the first level of Israel, God's people. This model helps explain the times and seasons. The time of the gentiles. The time of the law of Moses--why would 1500 years of Israel's descendants be limited to the Law of Moses for the sins of their calf-worshiping fathers? Unless, that is exactly where these souls are on their eternal progression. Initiates. The laws of the temple align perfectly to the levels of Israel - 3-7:

Level / Patriarch / Temple Law

3 / Moses / Law of Obedience

4 / Abraham / Law of Sacrifice

5 / Noah / Law of Gospel

6 / Enoch / Law of Chastity

7 / Adam / Law of Consecration

Each dispensation head epitomized obedience to the law of the gospel that aligns to their respective level. Moses was obedient in the face of the most stubborn man in history. Moses bent his will to God while Pharaoh was obstinate. Obedience lead to deliverance. Abraham obeyed the Law of Sacrifice when he offered up Isaac. Noah obeyed the Law of the Gospel when he preached for 120 years. Enoch built his city ZION - the pure in heart - one heart and one mind - an impossibility without obeying the Law of Chastity (This is why the 144,000 are referred to as virgins in Revelation 14. This is their level.) Adam obeyed the law of consecration when he consecrated his immortality and his world to the progression of souls.

This is a very much condensed version of what I've written in my articles, so I strongly suggest reading them for those who are interested--happy to discuss here!

 

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Alaris

[Five Solas]

On 2/26/2018 at 3:32 PM, Alaris said:

...many christians believe these chapters are messages to the ancient christians only and pay them no heed--however, encoded in these messages are they keys to unlock an understanding of eternal progression.

...

The idea of the Bible containing encoded messages has strong appeal to some folks.  I had an LDS Institute instructor who was a big fan, and that encounter didn't go well for me (at least I felt pretty bad about it at the time, although things can look very different in the rear-view mirror).  I shared it here. 

Why do you think God would use such a technique, Alaris?  And does it change your analysis to know modern Bible translations aren't consistent with the KJV's rendering "overcometh?" 

--Erik

___________________________________________

Under the iron bridge we kissed
And although I ended up with sore lips
It just wasn't like the old days anymore
No, it wasn't like those days
Am I still ill?

--The Smiths, 1984

[Alaris]

34 minutes ago, Five Solas said:

The idea of the Bible containing encoded messages has strong appeal to some folks.  I had an LDS Institute instructor who was a big fan, and that encounter didn't go well for me (at least I felt pretty bad about it at the time, although things can look very different in the rear-view mirror).  I shared it here. 

Why do you think God would use such a technique, Alaris?  And does it change your analysis to know modern Bible translations aren't consistent with the KJV's rendering "overcometh?" 

--Erik

___________________________________________

Under the iron bridge we kissed
And although I ended up with sore lips
It just wasn't like the old days anymore
No, it wasn't like those days
Am I still ill?

--The Smiths, 1984

The Seven levels of overcoming are given to each of the seven churches in Asia in turn and are all very formulaic. The Lord introduces Himself in a unique way, He delivers a message to the angel over the church, and then He gives a promised reward of overcoming, so I can't imagine modern translations deviating far from this. 

Then there are of course the layers upon layers of understanding to be had by studying and pondering upon these scriptures. 

To answer your question about hidden mysteries and meanings, the Lord taught this concept to His disciples in Matthew 13 explaining to them why He taught in parables. He then Coincidentally quotes Isaiah 6, which is a very important scripture to understand the levels of mankind... Eyes to see, ears to hear, and hearts to understand. 

In fact, the seven levels model explains why some souls see more clearly the mysteries than others. Level six is the level of pure understanding and I believe Isaiah 6 is the ordinance of this level and is aligned to the apostles and the 144,000. 

Of course these mysteries are accessible  to all but certain steps must be followed to "see" them clearly. See what I did there? 

1 Nephi 10:18 For he is the same yesterday, today, and forever; and the way is prepared for all men from the foundation of the world, if it so be that they repent and come unto him.
            19 For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost, as well in these times as in times of old, and as well in times of old as in times to come; wherefore, the course of the Lord is one eternal round.

 

2 Nephi 28:29 Wo be unto him that shall say: We have received the word of God, and we need no more of the word of God, for we have enough!
            30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.

 

And there is a curse attributed to those who say we have enough. 

Alma 12:9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.
            10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.

 

Of course these are all from the Book of Mormon, but you are on a Mormon forum

Edited February 28, 2018 by Alaris

[Five Solas]

10 hours ago, Alaris said:

The Seven levels of overcoming are given to each of the seven churches in Asia in turn and are all very formulaic. The Lord introduces Himself in a unique way, He delivers a message to the angel over the church, and then He gives a promised reward of overcoming, so I can't imagine modern translations deviating far from this. 

Then there are of course the layers upon layers of understanding to be had by studying and pondering upon these scriptures. 

To answer your question about hidden mysteries and meanings, the Lord taught this concept to His disciples in Matthew 13 explaining to them why He taught in parables. He then Coincidentally quotes Isaiah 6, which is a very important scripture to understand the levels of mankind... Eyes to see, ears to hear, and hearts to understand. 

In fact, the seven levels model explains why some souls see more clearly the mysteries than others. Level six is the level of pure understanding and I believe Isaiah 6 is the ordinance of this level and is aligned to the apostles and the 144,000. 

Of course these mysteries are accessible  to all but certain steps must be followed to "see" them clearly. See what I did there? 

...

I will observe LDS like to use Matthew 13:10 and its counterpart in Mark 4:11-12 in curious ways.  On another recent thread a poster pressed the explanation for parables into service to justify the lack of physical evidence for places described in the Book of Mormon.   Bet you didn't see that one coming, did you?  But it all ended nicely, with a fine old photo of a split-window bus & his lovely young bride. 

:0)

I do find your belief in "layers of understanding to be had by studying" much at odds with the New Testament.  When Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes oppose Jesus, it's not for a want of study.  These were highly committed and sincere scholars of the Hebrew Bible/Greek Septuagint.  And they see Jesus a blasphemer.  I suggest that simple fact is the undoing of your whole argument, that like a video game we can work to reach higher levels with increasing insight and power.  We just need the key to unlock the encryption.  As though that were how the Holy Spirit worked. 

I'll close with what Mark 4:11-12 actually says.  From the ESV--

11 And he said to them, "To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that

'they may indeed see but not perceive,
    and may indeed hear but not understand,
lest they should turn and be forgiven.'"

It's not about achieving levels.  It doesn't explain absent Nephite artifacts.  I submit it illustrates election, as Paul will expound upon in later books.  

--Erik

______________________________________________

Dance like no one is watching
Encrypt like everyone is

--Werner Vogels, AWS re:Invent 2017

[Alaris]

The whole basis of the seven levels uncovering was spiritual in nature and not a basis in study like you say. That's why I start every article with an invitation to pray to invite the Spirit of Truth and never ask anyone to take my word for it.

The Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes could not see because of their scholarship. They believed they were the masters of law and understanding. Simple pride. God cannot or does not teach someone something new if it conflicts with something they already "know." Well at least not without some humbling first. He did not leave the prideful Jews without a diagnosis after all as he saw into their hearts. 

Your betting that I didn't see something coming was actually incorrect. Not that I read the thread you linked, but I already had a good sense of your direction. You could prove me wrong as of yet as I try to be open to being wrong. That openness is the only way to discover what is right and true. 

Seek truth in humility, and you will find. 

[The Nehor]

I just reached level 5 this week. What did I win?

[Alaris]

8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I just reached level 5 this week. What did I win?

Read the articles and you will find out! Sadly, it is not until level 6 that you will have overcome the personal challenges that may result in trolling. =-\

Edit: Again, there is no "product" here. These are articles written with no monetization whatsoever. If the nehor was sincerely asking a question I'm happy to address.

Moderator: I will let this go for now because you are participating. We do not allow posters to use this board to advertise their own products. If you want to discuss something give enough information to do it, do not expect people to find it somewhere else.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Alaris

[Five Solas]

11 hours ago, Alaris said:

The whole basis of the seven levels uncovering was spiritual in nature and not a basis in study like you say.

But your exact words were--

23 hours ago, Alaris said:

layers of understanding to be had by studying

Maybe you think levels are uncovered one way and layers another--but your readers must be forgiven any resulting confusion, as the fault is unlikely theirs.

11 hours ago, Alaris said:

The Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes could not see because of their scholarship. They believed they were the masters of law and understanding. Simple pride. God cannot or does not teach someone something new if it conflicts with something they already "know." Well at least not without some humbling first. He did not leave the prideful Jews without a diagnosis after all as he saw into their hearts. 

Your betting that I didn't see something coming was actually incorrect. Not that I read the thread you linked, but I already had a good sense of your direction. You could prove me wrong as of yet as I try to be open to being wrong. That openness is the only way to discover what is right and true. 

Seek truth in humility, and you will find. 

God can teach and He can radically change anyone, in any moment He chooses.  Recall the story of Saul's conversion in Acts 9.  As for your last part, well it feels a little awkward in our moment of disagreement.  You're implying you've obtained your levels/layers/insights, at least to some degree, by exercising humility--and now you admonish me to do the same.  It's an indirect boast that you're more humble than I am--and this discrepancy is the root of our difference.  Actually, that's more than a little awkward.  Undone you are, my friend.

--Erik

____________________________

I saw a light from heaven

--Paul of Tarsus

[Alaris]

1 hour ago, Five Solas said:

But your exact words were--

Maybe you think levels are uncovered one way and layers another--but your readers must be forgiven any resulting confusion, as the fault is unlikely theirs.

God can teach and He can radically change anyone, in any moment He chooses.  Recall the story of Saul's conversion in Acts 9.  As for your last part, well it feels a little awkward in our moment of disagreement.  You're implying you've obtained your levels/layers/insights, at least to some degree, by exercising humility--and now you admonish me to do the same.  It's an indirect boast that you're more humble than I am--and this discrepancy is the root of our difference.  Actually, that's more than a little awkward.  Undone you are, my friend.

--Erik

____________________________

I saw a light from heaven

--Paul of Tarsu

Sauls story is an obvious exception, and not how most are converted... This is akin to interpreting  Elijah's mocking priests of baal as an invitation to mocking others while ignoring essentially  the entire sermon on the mount. Let's destroy the rule once we find an apparent contradiction said no humble, sincere truth seeker ever. Can I use the H word without being accused of pride?

13 hours ago, Alaris said:

The whole basis of the seven levels uncovering was spiritual in nature and not a basis in study like you say. That's why I start every article with an invitation to pray to invite the Spirit of Truth and never ask anyone to take my word for it.

The Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes could not see because of their scholarship. They believed they were the masters of law and understanding. Simple pride. God cannot or does not teach someone something new if it conflicts with something they already "know." Well at least not without some humbling first. He did not leave the prideful Jews without a diagnosis after all as he saw into their hearts. 

Your betting that I didn't see something coming was actually incorrect. Not that I read the thread you linked, but I already had a good sense of your direction. You could prove me wrong as of yet as I try to be open to being wrong. That openness is the only way to discover what is right and true. 

Seek truth in humility, and you will find. 

I bolded the important bits. Studying is necessary. Humility is necessary. Prayer. These are all elements of spiritual learning as covered in Moroni, but it is the Spirit that teaches. Stating one is important does not magically exclude the rest. But you know all this. Contrary to the Contrarian's basis for controversy. 

If you struggled with Moronis promise then this really isn't something for you as each aspect is critical for higher learning.  However, engaging each step in humility and sincerity may also improve your relationships and even your online entanglements.. er.. engagements. 

I hope you'll understand if I am otherwise disinclined to engage in any further attempts at arguing. Thank you for helping bump this thread though.

 

Edited March 1, 2018 by Alaris

[Five Solas]

9 hours ago, Alaris said:

Sauls story is an obvious exception, and not how most are converted... This is akin to interpreting  Elijah's mocking priests of baal as an invitation to mocking others while ignoring essentially  the entire sermon on the mount. Let's destroy the rule once we find an apparent contradiction said no humble, sincere truth seeker ever. Can I use the H word without being accused of pride?

I bolded the important bits. Studying is necessary. Humility is necessary. Prayer. These are all elements of spiritual learning as covered in Moroni, but it is the Spirit that teaches. Stating one is important does not magically exclude the rest. But you know all this. Contrary to the Contrarian's basis for controversy. 

If you struggled with Moronis promise then this really isn't something for you as each aspect is critical for higher learning.  However, engaging each step in humility and sincerity may also improve your relationships and even your online entanglements.. er.. engagements. 

I hope you'll understand if I am otherwise disinclined to engage in any further attempts at arguing. Thank you for helping bump this thread though.

 

When you dismiss my examples as exceptions and tell me you know this because of your superior humility, prayers & study--yes, I agree we're probably done here.  But you are welcome for the bump.

:0)

--Erik

_________________________________________________

The snake behind me hisses
What my damage could have been
My blood before me begs me
Open up my heart again
And I feel this coming over like a storm again
Considerately

--Tool, 1996

[The Nehor]

On 2/28/2018 at 12:19 PM, Alaris said:

Read the articles and you will find out! Sadly, it is not until level 6 that you will have overcome the personal challenges that may result in trolling.

Oh, so that is when life becomes joyless and empty? I will just keep the thetans I still have then.

[RevTestament]

On 2/27/2018 at 9:03 AM, Alaris said:

Thanks Robert. They are seven levels of eternal progression, and they are indeed sequential. The mystery here is simple, yet profound so there absolutely is an element of esoteric knowledge in accordance to the mysteries as outlined in the scriptures. This is all covered in the articles I have written, but I will address the question here.

As many, if not most, LDS believe, my father-in-law believes these levels of overcoming all occur sometime after the resurrection, in resurrected bodies. Some LDS believe, as I do, that these levels of progression occur simultaneously in worlds such as our own. Meaning, that though we distinguished ourselves premortally through our faithfulness, there is a reason so little has been defined as to what "premortality" is. This is sounding way more mysterious than I intended. Let's get real simple:

The seven levels of progression are aligned to the seven dispensation, though they are inverted. Here is a great PDF that shows the seven great dispensations from LDS.org:

https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/images/gospel-library/manual/32489/32489_000_004_06_dispensation.pdf

There are a few key verses that demonstrate that the first seven levels of overcoming as given in Revelation 2 an 3 are aligned to the dispensations--inverted. The first clue is the third level of overcoming:

Manna - This clue aligns the third level to Moses and his dispensation. 

The next overt clue is the sixth level of overcoming:

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

New Jerusalem which comes out of heaven - whose dispensation might that be?

New Jerusalem which comes out of heaven - Enoch.  So with these two points we can go ahead and align and then look for more clues.

Levels of Overcoming / Dispensation Patriarchs

1 Joseph Smith

2 Peter

3 Moses

4 Abraham

5 Noah

6 Enoch

7 Adam

Let's look at a few more clues. The 4th level of overcoming - the promised reward for overcoming level 4 - is power over kingdoms and increase. Abraham.

The second level of overcoming - salvation from spiritual death - is overcome through accepting Christ. This aligns to Peter, the first dispensation where the gospel is sent to the world. Baptism brings souls to level 3, or the first level of Israel, God's people. This model helps explain the times and seasons. The time of the gentiles. The time of the law of Moses--why would 1500 years of Israel's descendants be limited to the Law of Moses for the sins of their calf-worshiping fathers? Unless, that is exactly where these souls are on their eternal progression. Initiates. The laws of the temple align perfectly to the levels of Israel - 3-7:

Level / Patriarch / Temple Law

3 / Moses / Law of Obedience

4 / Abraham / Law of Sacrifice

5 / Noah / Law of Gospel

6 / Enoch / Law of Chastity

7 / Adam / Law of Consecration

Each dispensation head epitomized obedience to the law of the gospel that aligns to their respective level. Moses was obedient in the face of the most stubborn man in history. Moses bent his will to God while Pharaoh was obstinate. Obedience lead to deliverance. Abraham obeyed the Law of Sacrifice when he offered up Isaac. Noah obeyed the Law of the Gospel when he preached for 120 years. Enoch built his city ZION - the pure in heart - one heart and one mind - an impossibility without obeying the Law of Chastity (This is why the 144,000 are referred to as virgins in Revelation 14. This is their level.) Adam obeyed the law of consecration when he consecrated his immortality and his world to the progression of souls.

This is a very much condensed version of what I've written in my articles, so I strongly suggest reading them for those who are interested--happy to discuss here!

 

In the interest of preventing the spread of misinformation - those are not the seven levels of overcoming. 

1st - Adam

2nd - Noah

3rd - Abraham

4rth - David

5th - John the baptist; covenant of Christ

6th - Joseph Smith - covenant to the goyim

7th - covenant of the millennium - hidden manna

The idea that the Rev 2-3 represents seven different levels is incorrect.

I have already said elsewhere that these verses are in fulfillment of YHWH's promise in Isaiah that seven women would take ahold of one man to be called by his name. 

Notice: "I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God"

"and I will write upon him my new name."

"will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."

compare: "1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."

[Alaris]

3 hours ago, RevTestament said:

In the interest of preventing the spread of misinformation - those are not the seven levels of overcoming. 

1st - Adam

2nd - Noah

3rd - Abraham

4rth - David

5th - John the baptist; covenant of Christ

6th - Joseph Smith - covenant to the goyim

7th - covenant of the millennium - hidden manna

The idea that the Rev 2-3 represents seven different levels is incorrect.

I have already said elsewhere that these verses are in fulfillment of YHWH's promise in Isaiah that seven women would take ahold of one man to be called by his name. 

Notice: "I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God"

"and I will write upon him my new name."

"will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."

compare: "1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."

Hey thanks for chiming in. I appreciate the fact you recognize there are seven levels and have a pre-existing interpretation of seven levels. I can't take credit for recognizing these are successive levels of progression, however my analysis of these levels varies quite strongly from my father-in-law's as he, like most LDS, believe the work that must be done beyond the veil happens in resurrected bodies while we become Kings and Priests whereas I believe quite firmly these levels of progression all occur simultaneously. The Kings and Priests are here. They are the 144,000, the seven patriarchs, etc.

If you look at the first two promises and the last two, you can see quite clearly these are successive rewards starting with overcoming physical death, then spiritual death, and then at the end becoming a Son, and then a Father. 

1. Revelation 2:7 To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
2. Revelation 2:11 He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

7. Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
8. Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

After I had aligned the levels to the patriarchs, I realized I was on to something huge here. After that discovery, I had learned about Avraham Gileadi's seven levels of progression he has identified in his studies of Isaiah.  There are a few little differences, but all-in-all these align very nicely:

http://www.isaiahexplained.com/resources/isaiahs-seven-spiritual-levels-of-humanity

~*~*

David is an interesting addition to your levels, and I agree ... somewhat ...

See, David failed and lost his exaltation. Joseph Smith said, "the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage" (TPJS, p. 339)"

So that David, the latter-day David, is in the levels, but he represents the 8th patriarch or archangel, ascending to that status from the Seraphim, or the 144,000. I believe he is the angel that speaks for them in Revelation:

Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

He is the head of their order imho and is ascending from their order to the level of Adam, Encoh, Abraham, etc. (Those patriarchs aligned to the levels also - uncoincidentally - match perfectly to the dispensations and patriarchs outlined in the PDF I linked to lds.org in my original post.)

The sixth promise of overcoming - also not coincidentally - aligns perfectly to Isaiah 6, Matthew 13, the Apostles - the Seraphim - the 144,000 - and the law of Chastity. This is why they are described as being virgins seemingly randomly in Revelation 14.

Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

They will be resurrected first, imho - hence firstfruits - the same word Paul used to describe Jesus' being the firstfruits of them that slept. More importantly, here is the sixth promise of overcoming associated with a covenant.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

This is the promised reward aligned to the covenant of the 144,000. Included in the promised reward is the learning and knowing of the name of God the Father. This is why the name is sealed in the foreheads of the 144,000 and the latter-day David tells the four angels to wait until that promise is sealed to all the 144,000--implying there is a probation and trial and / or selection process that must be completed before certain end times events can move forward.

Thanks again for chiming in. No need to take RevTestament's or my word for it alone. Take these words to God for these words are true. 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Alaris

[RevTestament]

12 hours ago, Alaris said:

Hey thanks for chiming in. I appreciate the fact you recognize there are seven levels and have a pre-existing interpretation of seven levels. I can't take credit for recognizing these are successive levels of progression, however my analysis of these levels varies quite strongly from my father-in-law's as he, like most LDS, believe the work that must be done beyond the veil happens in resurrected bodies while we become Kings and Priests whereas I believe quite firmly these levels of progression all occur simultaneously.

Well, again see my comment:

"The idea that the Rev 2-3 represents seven different levels is incorrect."

They are seven steps, but don't represent seven levels in heaven. 

Quote

The Kings and Priests are here. They are the 144,000, the seven patriarchs, etc.

If you look at the first two promises and the last two, you can see quite clearly these are successive rewards starting with overcoming physical death, then spiritual death, and then at the end becoming a Son, and then a Father. 

1. Revelation 2:7 To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
2. Revelation 2:11 He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

7. Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
8. Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

After I had aligned the levels to the patriarchs, I realized I was on to something huge here. After that discovery, I had learned about Avraham Gileadi's seven levels of progression he has identified in his studies of Isaiah.  There are a few little differences, but all-in-all these align very nicely:

http://www.isaiahexplained.com/resources/isaiahs-seven-spiritual-levels-of-humanity

Well, yes and no. You are confusing the 144,000 sealed by the end of the sixth seal in Chap 7 with chapter 14. You can't retroactively apply those steps to say..Adam or Noah. I don't believe those are "successive rewards." They apply to each who overcome.

Quote

David is an interesting addition to your levels, and I agree ... somewhat ...

See, David failed and lost his exaltation. Joseph Smith said, "the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage" (TPJS, p. 339)"

So that David, the latter-day David, is in the levels, but he represents the 8th patriarch or archangel, ascending to that status from the Seraphim, or the 144,000. I believe he is the angel that speaks for them in Revelation:

Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

He is the head of their order imho and is ascending from their order to the level of Adam, Encoh, Abraham, etc. (Those patriarchs aligned to the levels also - uncoincidentally - match perfectly to the dispensations and patriarchs outlined in the PDF I linked to lds.org in my original post.)

David still held a key, and that key is still active. It was not extinguished by his fall. He still managed to reveal the seal, and teach the lesson. He just no longer wields the key. It was retained by Yeshua, and probably given to Michael. The other angel having the seal of the living God could be Joseph Smith, or one subsequent to him, but it is not David. You are proving my point here, that by the end of the sixth seal the 144,000 servants of God led by Yeshua have done their work. They are sealed to God before the great and terrible day of the Lord. So, is the gospel finished?

Quote

The sixth promise of overcoming - also not coincidentally - aligns perfectly to Isaiah 6, Matthew 13, the Apostles - the Seraphim - the 144,000 - and the law of Chastity. This is why they are described as being virgins seemingly randomly in Revelation 14.

Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

They will be resurrected first, imho - hence firstfruits - the same word Paul used to describe Jesus' being the firstfruits of them that slept. More importantly, here is the sixth promise of overcoming associated with a covenant.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

This is the promised reward aligned to the covenant of the 144,000. Included in the promised reward is the learning and knowing of the name of God the Father. This is why the name is sealed in the foreheads of the 144,000 and the latter-day David tells the four angels to wait until that promise is sealed to all the 144,000--implying there is a probation and trial and / or selection process that must be completed before certain end times events can move forward.

Women in revelation usually represent churches. So these 144,000 are not defiled of the Churches, but are aligned solely with the one true Church of God. They are virgins of the seven Churches of Rev 2-3, and know the song of the lamb. They have walked the seven steps, and been made clean before God. Thus, they are called to the wedding supper. Knowing the name of God entails living that name - being that name. That is how one inherits names like angel/messenger.

[Alaris]

4 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Well, again see my comment:

"The idea that the Rev 2-3 represents seven different levels is incorrect."

They are seven steps, but don't represent seven levels in heaven. 

Well, yes and no. You are confusing the 144,000 sealed by the end of the sixth seal in Chap 7 with chapter 14. You can't retroactively apply those steps to say..Adam or Noah. I don't believe those are "successive rewards." They apply to each who overcome.

David still held a key, and that key is still active. It was not extinguished by his fall. He still managed to reveal the seal, and teach the lesson. He just no longer wields the key. It was retained by Yeshua, and probably given to Michael. The other angel having the seal of the living God could be Joseph Smith, or one subsequent to him, but it is not David. You are proving my point here, that by the end of the sixth seal the 144,000 servants of God led by Yeshua have done their work. They are sealed to God before the great and terrible day of the Lord. So, is the gospel finished?

Women in revelation usually represent churches. So these 144,000 are not defiled of the Churches, but are aligned solely with the one true Church of God. They are virgins of the seven Churches of Rev 2-3, and know the song of the lamb. They have walked the seven steps, and been made clean before God. Thus, they are called to the wedding supper. Knowing the name of God entails living that name - being that name. That is how one inherits names like angel/messenger.

I didn't respond to your declarations of "this or that isn't correct" because you don't qualify any of those statements. "That's wrong." OK thanks ... how is it wrong?

They are seven levels - each "church" in Asia is a what? A "church" is a congregation or body of ... people. So many think these are private messages for groups of people who died almost 2,000 years ago, but this is an encoded message - so much of John's Revelation is encoded, which is why the Lord has promised the fullness of the record of John if we are faithful. 

D&C 93:18 And it shall come to pass, that if you are faithful you shall receive the fulness of the record of John.

If you have something tangible to offer as to why you believe these aren't seven levels of mankind, I'm happy to have a substantive discussion with you. "No it's not," isn't productive. I'm happy to discuss your claims if you can show how you've come to those conclusions. 

I submit to you I am not confusing Revelation 7 and 14 and haven't made any such claims about them "retroactively apply[ing] those steps to say..Adam or Noah," and I'm not sure how you've concluded that's what I'm claiming. Revelation 7 and 14 (the portions I quoted) are about the 144,000 who are at the sixth level of overcoming and have qualified that claim substantively. 

You say that angel could be anyone "but it's not David" - the first David or the latter-day David? The throne and kingdom of David is to be given to a new latter-day David. I'm not sure if you read that quote from Joseph Smith - so many LDS just gloss over that quote. What is the throne and kingdom of David?

Ezekiel 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

This isn't the original David nor is it Christ. This is the same David of whom Joseph Smith referred when he said, "the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage" (TPJS, p. 339)

This is the throne of Israel - not of Judah as some LDS believe. This is an eternal throne - hence the "for ever" element.

You said, "You are proving my point here, that by the end of the sixth seal the 144,000 servants of God led by Yeshua have done their work. They are sealed to God before the great and terrible day of the Lord. So, is the gospel finished?"

I'm not sure how I've proven your point. Nowhere does Revelation 7 imply the 144,000 have finished their work before the end of the sixth seal. They are sealed by the end of the sixth seal, meaning this group must be ready before the seventh seal is opened. Simple. If that's the case then the simple conclusion is, "OK the 144,000 are sealed and ready let's move on to the next steps."

Joseph Smith: "Men and angels are to be co-workers in bringing to pass this great work, and Zion is to be prepared, even a new Jerusalem, for the elect that are to be gathered from the four quarters of the earth, and to be established an holy city, for the tabernacle of the Lord shall be with them” (HC 2:260)"

So many read the Revelation 7 verses about the 144,000 from a temporal perspective. This is eternal progression and these sealings happen and are being lined up from beyond the veil as indicated by all the angel talk in Revelation including the ascending angel from the East. Just because their sealing is finished in the sixth seal doesn't mean their work even starts in the sixth seal. This also just happens to line up chronologically by chapter since the seventh seal is opened in chapter 8, and the work of the 144,000 is cited in chapter 14.

The law of chastity that aligns to the 144,000 not only makes perfect sense for the reasons I listed above, and aligns sequentially to the levels as shown below, but also aligns to the promise. The name of God and the new name of Jesus Christ are holy - and only someone who has mastered their thoughts and made their mind as sacred as the holy temple may have that name unsealed. This is the trial and promise of their level. Are your thoughts perfect? Fear not, as theirs are not either though that is the step on the ladder they are on.

Joseph Smith: "When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the gospel--you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave." HC 6:306-307

Edit: There are a couple of errors in the graphic I made above I'll need to fix. "Eternal Life" should be "Celestial Kingdom" for Moses' level as Baptism is the ordinance for minimum celestial / lowest degree inheritance. Also, "Second Anointing" and "Calling & Election" may need some work on that chart

Melch Sign II isn't accurate for the barrier between Father and Son - the temple is about getting an audience with the Lord Jesus Christ. Once you do, you will learn the subsequent sign(s) and token(s) to get an audience with the Father. If I get time, I'll update, but the chart should at least present clearly the logic of aligning the levels of progression, the laws of the gospel, the rewards, the ordinances, the signs, the veils, and the ladder Joseph Smith taught us about, etc.

Edited March 2, 2018 by Alaris

[RevTestament]

1 hour ago, Alaris said:

I didn't respond to your declarations of "this or that isn't correct" because you don't qualify any of those statements. "That's wrong." OK thanks ... how is it wrong?

They are seven levels - each "church" in Asia is a what? A "church" is a congregation or body of ... people. So many think these are private messages for groups of people who died almost 2,000 years ago, but this is an encoded message - so much of John's Revelation is encoded, which is why the Lord has promised the fullness of the record of John if we are faithful. 

D&C 93:18 And it shall come to pass, that if you are faithful you shall receive the fulness of the record of John.

If you have something tangible to offer as to why you believe these aren't seven levels of mankind, I'm happy to have a substantive discussion with you. "No it's not," isn't productive. I'm happy to discuss your claims if you can show how you've come to those conclusions. 

Maybe I don't understand what you mean by levels, but you talk about different rewards, etc. I submit to you that all the 144,000 have the same new name. Thus, in this sense they are equal. We have no scripture to support "7 levels." The most one can say is that there are three levels in the celestial kingdom. I believe these pertain to the different titles one may inherit. One is elohim which is a name which applies to the house or family of God.  All those who are sons or daughters of God are in this house. For the reference you want see Ps 82 and others. Another is YHWH. For the reference you want see Jeremiah 33:16. I believe not all elohim are YHWH.  To be quite frank, you have no scriptural support for your conjecture.  I agree with you that the fullness of this gospel is to be revealed, but it was not so to Joseph Smith, but by those for which it is foreordained.  

Quote

I submit to you I am not confusing Revelation 7 and 14 and haven't made any such claims about them "retroactively apply[ing] those steps to say..Adam or Noah," and I'm not sure how you've concluded that's what I'm claiming. Revelation 7 and 14 (the portions I quoted) are about the 144,000 who are at the sixth level of overcoming and have qualified that claim substantively. 

I submit to you that you are. You just don't realize it. The 144,000 sealed are sealed through the sealing power of the angel bearing the seal. That is why I mentioned Joseph, who received this sealing authority through Elijah. These are the prophets and servants of the Lord who were foreordained to this task. Note the reference to earthly tribes. You are using them interchangeably with the 144,000 of Rev 14, and they are not. That is what I am saying. You don't have to believe me, or agree with me. However, I believe it becomes evident from a close examination of the text. Unless you believe that they are sealed to God in the preexistence, there is not another way for them to become sealed by the end of the sixth seal, which is a reference to the earthly period of the first six thousand years of temporal history. See D&C 77:6. So, basically this time is up, and they are sealed.

Quote

You say that angel could be anyone "but it's not David" - the first David or the latter-day David? The throne and kingdom of David is to be given to a new latter-day David. I'm not sure if you read that quote from Joseph Smith - so many LDS just gloss over that quote. What is the throne and kingdom of David?

Ezekiel 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

This isn't the original David nor is it Christ. This is the same David of whom Joseph Smith referred when he said, "the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage" (TPJS, p. 339)

This is the throne of Israel - not of Judah as some LDS believe. This is an eternal throne - hence the "for ever" element.

You said, "You are proving my point here, that by the end of the sixth seal the 144,000 servants of God led by Yeshua have done their work. They are sealed to God before the great and terrible day of the Lord. So, is the gospel finished?"

I'm not sure how I've proven your point. Nowhere does Revelation 7 imply the 144,000 have finished their work before the end of the sixth seal. They are sealed by the end of the sixth seal, meaning this group must be ready before the seventh seal is opened. Simple. If that's the case then the simple conclusion is, "OK the 144,000 are sealed and ready let's move on to the next steps."

OK, I should have known you were talking about the key of David, and concede that it could be referencing  an earthly servant holding this key. However, I do not believe this to be the case. I believe the angel is a reference to Elijah and indirectly Joseph Smith. That is the "message." It was revealed early enough that the servants could be sealed by the end of the sixth seal. In other words I do not believe David is the angel bearing the seal of God. I believe the 144,000 of Rev 7 do finish their earthly work. Any additional work they are doing is not perceptible by man. They are finished with their mortal probations.  This alone largely implies they are not the same 144,000 of Rev 14 since they did not all receive the steps of Rev 2-3. Do you see what I am saying now?

Quote

Joseph Smith: "Men and angels are to be co-workers in bringing to pass this great work, and Zion is to be prepared, even a new Jerusalem, for the elect that are to be gathered from the four quarters of the earth, and to be established an holy city, for the tabernacle of the Lord shall be with them” (HC 2:260)"

So many read the Revelation 7 verses about the 144,000 from a temporal perspective. This is eternal progression and these sealings happen and are being lined up from beyond the veil as indicated by all the angel talk in Revelation including the ascending angel from the East. Just because their sealing is finished in the sixth seal doesn't mean their work even starts in the sixth seal. This also just happens to line up chronologically by chapter since the seventh seal is opened in chapter 8, and the work of the 144,000 is cited in chapter 14.

The law of chastity that aligns to the 144,000 not only makes perfect sense for the reasons I listed above, and aligns sequentially to the levels as shown below, but also aligns to the promise. The name of God and the new name of Jesus Christ are holy - and only someone who has mastered their thoughts and made their mind as sacred as the holy temple may have that name unsealed. This is the trial and promise of their level. Are your thoughts perfect? Fear not, as theirs are not either though that is the step on the ladder they are on.

Joseph Smith: "When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the gospel--you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave." HC 6:306-307

Edit: There are a couple of errors in the graphic I made above I'll need to fix. "Eternal Life" should be "Celestial Kingdom" for Moses' level as Baptism is the ordinance for minimum celestial / lowest degree inheritance. Also, "Second Anointing" and "Calling & Election" may need some work on that chart

Melch Sign II isn't accurate for the barrier between Father and Son - the temple is about getting an audience with the Lord Jesus Christ. Once you do, you will learn the subsequent sign(s) and token(s) to get an audience with the Father. If I get time, I'll update, but the chart should at least present clearly the logic of aligning the levels of progression, the laws of the gospel, the rewards, the ordinances, the signs, the veils, and the ladder Joseph Smith taught us about, etc.

I disagree with you about the 144,000 of Rev 7 being some future prophets or servants. To receive the seal inside a time period of a temporal seal, I believe implicitly means they must have come to earth and lived during this temporal time period. It is a reference to the prophets, seers, and servants to date, which includes Adam, etc. So, I do have to agree that Adam's work is not done, but his earthly work is done, along with that of the other 144,000 of Rev 7.  I simply disagree with your chart of the seven or eight different "levels." To me it is just all made up, and completely lacks scriptural support. I respectfully submit you have not yet understood MMP.

[Alaris]

Well you've at least given some substance here rather than just "you're wrong" like your prior two posts, so thank you for that FWIW. Might I suggest in the future, "I disagree and here's why" as it's much more golden rulesy. I'm guessing you wouldn't say that to my face, and not because I'm 6'4" - Bravery behind the safety of anonymity does not excuse us from the second greatest commandment nor does it excuse us from avoiding the spirit of contention.

4 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Maybe I don't understand what you mean by levels, but you talk about different rewards, etc. I submit to you that all the 144,000 have the same new name. Thus, in this sense they are equal. We have no scripture to support "7 levels." The most one can say is that there are three levels in the celestial kingdom. I believe these pertain to the different titles one may inherit. One is elohim which is a name which applies to the house or family of God.  All those who are sons or daughters of God are in this house. For the reference you want see Ps 82 and others. Another is YHWH. For the reference you want see Jeremiah 33:16. I believe not all elohim are YHWH.  To be quite frank, you have no scriptural support for your conjecture.  I agree with you that the fullness of this gospel is to be revealed, but it was not so to Joseph Smith, but by those for which it is foreordained.  

I agree they are on the same level. However, saying I have no scriptural basis for an OP that lists out the scriptural basis ... in the scriptures is well inaccurate to put it non-contentiously.  They are quite plainly and clearly successive rewards. They align to the dispensation heads. I even added my awesome graphic to show as much the supporting evidence as concisely as I can that reinforces these levels of progression. My articles are stock full of scriptural references and basis for my conclusions, yet I have to enunciate that learning by the spirit is paramount here, which I will elaborate on later.

Each dispensation head epitomizes their respective level - all of which is gleaned from the scriptures. Joseph Smith is the only one that requires a little bit of mind flexing to see how he is over level one, but the remaining six - it's as clear as day that they match up perfectly to the promise and to the respective laws of the gospel as they each epitomized that law in their ministry! They give the level or church or congegration of souls over which they preside the ultimate, and sometimes the penultimate (last next to Christ) example of how to overcome for their domain. Noah - Law of the Gospel - Preaching for 120 years. Abraham / Sacrifice. Moses Obedience. Peter - Repentance, overcoming the natural man. Adam consecrated his world. 

Jeremiah 33:6 Behold, I will bring it health and cure, and I will cure them, and will reveal unto them the abundance of peace and truth.

I'm not sure how the above scripture reinforces what you were saying. Perhaps if you can list out the scriptures you reference and break it down that may help me understand better. 

4 hours ago, RevTestament said:

I submit to you that you are. You just don't realize it. The 144,000 sealed are sealed through the sealing power of the angel bearing the seal. That is why I mentioned Joseph, who received this sealing authority through Elijah. These are the prophets and servants of the Lord who were foreordained to this task. Note the reference to earthly tribes. You are using them interchangeably with the 144,000 of Rev 14, and they are not. That is what I am saying. You don't have to believe me, or agree with me. However, I believe it becomes evident from a close examination of the text. Unless you believe that they are sealed to God in the preexistence, there is not another way for them to become sealed by the end of the sixth seal, which is a reference to the earthly period of the first six thousand years of temporal history. See D&C 77:6. So, basically this time is up, and they are sealed.

OK, I should have known you were talking about the key of David, and concede that it could be referencing  an earthly servant holding this key. However, I do not believe this to be the case. I believe the angel is a reference to Elijah and indirectly Joseph Smith. That is the "message." It was revealed early enough that the servants could be sealed by the end of the sixth seal. In other words I do not believe David is the angel bearing the seal of God. I believe the 144,000 of Rev 7 do finish their earthly work. Any additional work they are doing is not perceptible by man. They are finished with their mortal probations.  This alone largely implies they are not the same 144,000 of Rev 14 since they did not all receive the steps of Rev 2-3. Do you see what I am saying now?

I disagree with you about the 144,000 of Rev 7 being some future prophets or servants. To receive the seal inside a time period of a temporal seal, I believe implicitly means they must have come to earth and lived during this temporal time period. It is a reference to the prophets, seers, and servants to date, which includes Adam, etc. So, I do have to agree that Adam's work is not done, but his earthly work is done, along with that of the other 144,000 of Rev 7.  I simply disagree with your chart of the seven or eight different "levels." To me it is just all made up, and completely lacks scriptural support. I respectfully submit you have not yet understood MMP.

I've written seven articles directly on the topic and my articles on the Davidic Servant reinforce these levels of progression and they are all stock full of scriptures and quotes from prophets that add an amazing amount of reinforcement... scripturally and prophetically. 

144,000 - the 144,000 on Revelation 14 are different than Revelation 7? I've never heard that conclusion before. How do you come to that conclusion? Even if it's just, your feeling or direct personal revelation, great! You say you believe the 144,000 in revelation 7 finish their work - based off what? There is no indication to that as they are sealed only - no works are cited at all in chapter 7. As soon as they are sealed John transitions to a different group.

 Again, consider the fact that these 144,000 have been progressing far longer than the rest and there is no indication that these men are mortals only--certainly not exclusively. Joseph Smith said this will be a combination effort of angels and men. In fact there is more indication they are resurrected beings which makes the conclusion they are of one group, or congregation, or church even simpler:

Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

I think perhaps you meant D&C 77:11 rather than verse 6.

D&C 77:11 Q. What are we to understand by sealing the one hundred and forty-four thousand, out of all the tribes of Israel—twelve thousand out of every tribe?

A. We are to understand that those who are sealed are high priests, ordained unto the holy order of God, to administer the everlasting gospel; for they are they who are ordained out of every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, by the angels to whom is given power over the nations of the earth, to bring as many as will come to the church of the Firstborn.

I included the quote from Joseph Smith about the combination effort - I'll just paste it here again for convenience:

Joseph Smith: "Men and angels are to be co-workers in bringing to pass this great work, and Zion is to be prepared, even a new Jerusalem, for the elect that are to be gathered from the four quarters of the earth, and to be established an holy city, for the tabernacle of the Lord shall be with them” (HC 2:260)"

So we learn from this quote that men and angels are co-workers. How many angels? Will the 144,000 be a combination of angels and men? Why 144,000 - why not 144,001? I'll tell you why ... eternal progression is a lot longer than most LDS think. You have to learn to be a God (King Follet Sermon and the ladder quote from Joseph Smith, but I'll let you scroll up for that one.) Back to D&C 77:11 - the 144,000 administer the gospel, have power over nations, and gather the elect. This is the same substance of Joseph Smith's quote above and of Moses 7:62 and countless scriptures that tie these works back to the latter-day David and his work to restore Israel as at first.

The new paradigm here that is uncomfortable for likely the vast majority of LDS to the point of extreme cognitive dissonance is that these levels of progression occur simultaneously. Please allow that to sink in, as it is fairly evident you haven't considered that statement based off comments. Level six is high up - that is why there are only 144,000. The next level up - there are only seven ... soon to be eight by my humble estimation. Level Eight? One. Now, consider the fact that the numbers seven and eight are sacred numbers all over the place - why? Seven represents completion. Eight represents renewal or rebirth ... resurrection. These symbols themselves are clues that we see every single day that few contemplate - the week. The days of the week. Why age 8? What does that symbolize? The rainbow is even a symbol of these levels of progression. How many see the Sabbath and its change from the seventh day to the first day as actually a change from 7 to 8 - the first day of the next week? I had some struggle getting that concept across in  a separate thread, albeit I presumed the leaving the dot connecting was respecting the reader's intelligence.

I was going to write an article where the rainbow was going to be one section--the more I studied and contemplated I realized this would be a lengthy article just on the rainbow! 

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2017/07/the-levels-of-mankind-rainbow.html

That's a lighter article on scripture comparatively speaking, but there are still quite a few. This article ties in the symbols of the rainbow to the prior articles, so I still recommending starting with the first article in the series.

Two final thoughts for you moving forward:

Number one: I get it. I can't image learning these truths in any other way than through the path I have traveled. I don't expect anyone to read these articles and be like, "welp, I'm convinced," unless they are at that line and precept or perhaps have lines and precepts beyond this understanding. I'm not trying to reach everyone with these articles, which is why I post these in LDS forums for those LDS only who are here to teach and to learn rather than to contend and argue--and within that subset only LDS who are ready for such information. If you haven't given space to plant these seeds they will never grow or take root. If you aren't open to considering these truths you will not be open to pondering them or praying about them. I have, and I have received witness after witness that these levels, or congregations, of mankind are true. 

Alma 32:28 Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.

Number two: I am grateful for you chiming in here RevTestament. I don't have to be right at the expense of your being wrong - I can tell you why I disagree and why and hope and pray we all come to a unity of faith together. Inserting pride or contention into the process will only thwart those efforts and ZION is upon us. Truth illuminates and chases away darkness all on its own. If you believe something that you presume disqualifies my beliefs, let us talk substantively about why as we are gathered together in the name of the Lord.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Alaris

[Alaris]

Rather than create a separate thread for each article in my series, I figure I'll just post one at a time with some excerpts to generate discussion and then move on to the next if and when discussion tapers off. 

My second article in the series discusses the first four levels in detail.

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2017/07/the-first-four-levels-of-mankind.html

Level One is related to the first estate and is overcoming evil. I have reserved even mentioning "chakras" yet on my blog as the mere mention of the word makes many LDS twitch. However, there is absolutely truth to the chakras and how they each are paired with a gland in the body. The base chakra is located at the root of the spine and is related to the adrenal gland - fight or flight ... the most "base" of all the glands. Traversing that base chakra has only one of two outputs - human waste and human life. This is not a coincidence but a symbol of the first level, which sorting took place prior to this world in the war in heaven. There were only two outputs - those who live and will receive resurrection as their reward and those who die to all things spiritual and are essentially waste. None of this paragraph is in the article, as I will eventually write a supplementary article on the chakras, but I chose to do that late in the process to prevent the mistaken conclusion that chakras are foundational to understanding the truth of these levels of progression.  

Revelation 2:7 To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

The first reward is granted to those who raised their arms to the square and sustained Jehovah, His plan, and His noble and great ones who help execute the Great Plan of Happiness. The tree here represents the tree of life in the garden of Eden and its fruit which grants immortality. The resurrection is the reward for overcoming the first estate--basic knowledge among we Latter-day Saints.

How is Joseph Smith the dispensation patriarch over level one souls? Well, we have very little of the premortal life and war revealed at this time; however, I believe when this data comes to light, we will see that Joseph Smith's ministry extended back into this time just as Michael's extends forward to the end of the Millennium where he presents his world for Celestial inheritance to the Son and to the Father.

Understanding how to overcome the first estate and how to be overcome by the first estate is essential in understanding how Joseph Smith's mortal ministry stands as an exemplary model to this congregation of souls--the same as all patriarchs to their respective order. Again, this is supplemental information from which I plan to write a future article just on Joseph Smith and his first estate stewardship. 

Abraham 3:27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

Why did Satan fall? 

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Pride and rejection. Satan's pride set himself up for a fall through failure. He failed to be chosen, though he was an angel in authority. He likely would not have fallen had he been chosen, though the execution of his prideful plan would never have worked. Pride ... then rejection or failure = fall.

D&C 76:25 And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son,

26 And was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him—he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.

27 And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!

His falling was quite a big deal given the fact he was a son of the morning. So, how did Joseph Smith's life exemplify how to overcome the first estate? For starters, his life was full of chastisement, and his life was full of rejection and failure. Yet despite all these failures, he never rebelled but laid the foundation for establishing the Kingdom of God on Earth. Some of Joseph Smith's failures include: Failure to establish ZION though it was commanded of him to do so, failure to create a currency and banking system, failure to establish a safe community for the Saints, failure to retain early and later LDS leadership, failure to become President of the United States, etc. The last failure is an important symbol as this failure to be elected, or chosen (though the process is extremely different from a monarchical election) is what drove Satan to fall.

Yes, Joseph Smith demonstrated to the level one souls how to live a life full of humbling circumstances and failure and not only how to not rebel but how to ultimately succeed through repeated failures. This may seem like a silly justification - It took me a while myself to see how Joseph Smith is the steward of the first estate - however, deep down, all of these failures in his life were not only trying for Joseph himself but for the early Saints as well. We LDS know there are lessons to be learned from adversity and Joseph Smith is a prime example - but few LDS know that his life, as all dispensation patriarchs lives, are a model for one specific congregation of souls and the challenge they must face to overcome:

D&C 121:7 My son, peace be unto thy soul; thine adversity and thine afflictions shall be but a small moment;

8 And then, if thou endure it well, God shall exalt thee on high; thou shalt triumph over all thy foes.

D&C 121 epitomizes this penultimate example (second to final next to Jesus) of overcoming pride, failure, and adversity that is the theme of Joseph Smith's ministry. 

D&C 121:34 Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?

Being chosen - selection. This failure at being chosen is the root cause of rebellion and it's foundation is pride. Joseph was not immune:

D&C 121:1 O God, where art thou? And where is the pavilion that covereth thy hiding place?

But he did overcome and was never overcome by failure, by adversity, and by pride though his life was rife with these tests, moreso than any other patriarch. And the timing of the patriarch over the first estate's mortal ministry? This is the last dispensation or last call before the time of the gentiles ends and the gathering of Israel begins to prepare for ZION and the millennium. 

----

Level two is overcoming the second state, or the natural man and as the sustaining vote was the outward ordinance - you bet that voting to sustain the plan of the Father as proposed by the Son was an ordinance - the ordinance to overcome the second estate is, unsurprisingly, baptism. 

Level three is where things get a bit tricky, as the idea that there is a test and trial beyond the second estate that occurs in this same temporal existence is new to most LDS. However, understanding level three, level three's patriarch, and when the time of the trial of level three souls occurred answers several important questions. Why were the Israelites condemned to the lesser Law of Moses as we do not believe in original sin? In other words, the Israelites were worshiping a golden calf and had the higher law withheld from them for 1500 years--that is a long time to be restricted to the lesser law for the sins of the parents! However, level three is the initiate order of Israel - the youngest of the "new" souls to being God's chosen people. The Law of Obedience as given in the temple is how their level is overcome. 

D&C 121:24 But they hardened their hearts and could not endure his presence; therefore, the Lord in his wrath, for his anger was kindled against them, swore that they should not enter into his rest while in the wilderness, which rest is the fulness of his glory.

25 Therefore, he took Moses out of their midst, and the Holy Priesthood also;

26 And the lesser priesthood continued, which priesthood holdeth the key of the ministering of angels and the preparatory gospel;

27 Which gospel is the gospel of repentance and of baptism, and the remission of sins, and the law of carnal commandments, which the Lord in his wrath caused to continue with the house of Aaron among the children of Israel until John, whom God raised up, being filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother’s womb

The preparatory gospel. Preparing for what? Why then? Remember, the dispensations are aligned in inverse order to the levels of progression. Joseph Smith is aligned to the baseline congregation of first estate souls and as you traverse the dispensations in inverse order you arrive at Adam and then back to God's presence. This progression is hidden in a simple inverse linearity. The will is what must submit to God to overcome the Law of Obedience, and the test of wills is central to Moses' ministry with Pharoah being possibly the most stubborn man in history. Moses overcame by submitting his will to God's. His inability to enter the promised land in this life is a grand symbol of this order of souls who will not return to their ultimate promised land until after they overcome the test and trial of this life.

This is the reward promised to the Israelites aligned to this order:

Revelation 2:17 To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Manna was obviously aligned to Moses' dispensation and ministry and it sustained the Israelites during their wandering in the wilderness. The stone is given to those entering the celestial kingdom for the first time and reveals the mystery of the higher orders of celestial glory.

D&C 130:10 Then the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17, will become a Urim and Thummim to each individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known;
11 And a white stone is given to each of those who come into the celestial kingdom, whereon is a new name written, which no man knoweth save he that receiveth it. The new name is the key word.

This was symbolized by Moses who was unable to enter the promised land in life. The promised land - the celestial kingdom which is promised through adherence to the Law of Obedience - is attained after this life. 

---

Level four souls aligned to Abraham and the Law of Sacrifice is the next dispensation in inverse order. Abraham's offering of his son is the penultimate example of sacrifice next to Christ, and the order of level four souls, their time (similar to the time of the gentiles) lasted for 430 years from Israel and his sons being saved by Joseph in Egypt through the years of Israel's captivity to Moses liberation. For over 400 years, the Israelites sacrificed their land, their riches, and their lives. Why would God allow his chosen to be captive for so long ... unless this was the test and trial over those souls whose progression is set to the Law of Sacrifice. Here is their reward:

Revelation 2:26-28 And to him who overcometh, and keepeth my commandments unto the end, will I give power over many kingdoms; And he shall rule them with the word of God; and they shall be in his hands as the vessels of clay in the hands of a potter; and he shall govern them by faith, with equity and justice, even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star.

This reward is aligned quite nicely to the promise given to Abraham of increase. This is no coincidence.

---

I'd like to circle back to D&C 121 in closing - the section that demonstrates the central theme to Joseph Smith's life and example. Not coincidentally, it fits in perfectly with these themes, and especially the fact that these simultaneous ascension of souls has been hidden from us until now:

D&C 121:26 God shall give unto you knowledge by his Holy Spirit, yea, by the unspeakable gift of the Holy Ghost, that has not been revealed since the world was until now;

27 Which our forefathers have awaited with anxious expectation to be revealed in the last times, which their minds were pointed to by the angels, as held in reserve for the fulness of their glory;

28 A time to come in the which nothing shall be withheld, whether there be one God or many gods, they shall be manifest.

29 All thrones and dominions, principalities and powers, shall be revealed and set forth upon all who have endured valiantly for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

30 And also, if there be bounds set to the heavens or to the seas, or to the dry land, or to the sun, moon, or stars—

31 All the times of their revolutions, all the appointed days, months, and years, and all the days of their days, months, and years, and all their glories, laws, and set times, shall be revealed in the days of the dispensation of the fulness of times

 

Edited March 5, 2018 by Alaris

[thaabit]

The church clearly attests at least 5 levels of glory composed of the Telestial, Terrestrial, and 3 levels of Celestial.  The D&C gives some explanations of the 3 major levels, but I've never seen any official declarations as to the gradations of the Celestial levels.  Most theories I've heard on them will say something like married vs single, but that is only two levels.  That there could be other sublevels is possible, imo.  The Ascension of Isaiah suggests at least 7 levels with many being split into a left and right division.  He is told he cannot ascend beyond the 7th heaven and then be able to return to his body iirc (insinuating further levels).    Also, Gileadi gleaned 7 spiritual levels from Isaiah with some correlations to Alaris' ideas, though not an exact mapping (not all levels of glory): http://www.isaiahexplained.com/resources/isaiahs-seven-spiritual-levels-of-humanity

 

[Raymond Ellis]

I think the idea of seven levels of progression is not correct. Because the kingdom of God within, Luke 17:21, is much simpler than that. Seven in the Bible refers to the seven spirits of God in the heart of a child of God, and they are graduated from least to most intelligent; and they are used as guides to everyday living, where one's actions proceed from least precise to most precise, whatever the task. Everything depends on humbling oneself and becoming as a little child or one cannot experience the kingdom of God -- 3Nephi 11:38,39. There are no ladders of progression, your either a child of God or your not -- why do you complicate things? Because your using your reason instead of relying on direct truths from God: D&C section 9, verse 8: you must study it out and then ask God if it is right and if it is right he will cause your heart to burn with the spirit. When as a child of God you have 7 spirits in your heart then there are seven degrees of truth, from somewhat true to totally true or Holy Spirit.

There are actually ten spirits to begin with (Daniel 1: 10 days and ten times) but God expects us to learn to live in the top 7 most-intelligent: Abraham 3: 18-19. Verse 19: there are two spirits one more intelligent than the other, and there shall be another spirit more intelligent than they, I am the lord thy God I am more intelligent than they all. But you might think that Abraham is about the spirits of the stars and planets only, but the truth is everything we can see is made out of balls of spirits that we cannot see. The edge or Firmament spirit is the spirit of God. Galaxies are the largest and lightest souls with innumerable-to-man spirits and a very highly-intelligent firmament spirit. Heavier souls of the stars within the galaxy are made out of a fewer number of rings or shells, and have a less-intelligent firmament than a Galaxy does. Next comes planets. Then all humans flora and fauna and atoms, all with souls.

How can we obtain this 'pearl of great price' in our hearts? It helps to honour your father and mother, and to seek out a path with heart. A path with heart gives you great peace and pleasure to traverse its length, it is a talent bestowed by parents or grandparents.

Do what your parents say but with a spirit of precision not a spirit of might or power (Zech. 4:6: not by might nor by power but by my spirit says the Lord.) then you can love God more than your parents. God is precise: Hebrews 4:12:( For the word of God is living and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing, to the dividing asunder of the soul and spirit of the joints and marrow and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.) and King David as a lad with precision sling-shots. If you love God then choose to solve any problem by being precise, and then if opposition increases choose to be even more precise, even if you suffer defeat (or death), and God will carry you on his shoulders like a parent carrying a child; then you will be like a surfer who catches a giant wave that carries him all the way to the beach.

I like what President Dieter F. Uchtdorf said in Feb. 2018 Ensign page 80: Isn't it a remarkable feeling to belong to a church that embraces truth -- no matter the source... and we believe God will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God: Articles of Faith verse 9.

[Raymond Ellis]

I said you complicate things because of your Reason. That means by the power of your mind you create ideas that you feel the scriptures represent. A child of God does not create ideas with power. If you use power you force the scriptures into a meaning, whereas the opposite is to allow the scriptures to speak meaning.

There are many writers who force the scriptures into a meaning, a meaning of might or power. Many Christians and Mormons fall into the trap of trying to worship both the Holy Spirit and the spirit of power. There are four ways people worship power, Isaiah 66:17: Idol: a group that worships a man or thing to bestow power, emotional colour gold, number 9; Mouse: clever words or precise-small actions that glamorize power, yellow, 8; Swine: unnaturally high intensity or lust, green, 6; Abomination or Might: a dark, slow, heavy spirit that is the accumulation of facts or actions to make a strong argument or immoveable fortress, black, 2. This is the false work-self soul, there is also a false work-sex soul and a false sex-self soul; the lust colours respectively are: Royal Blue and Maroon.

Zech. 5: the spirits of two false prophets: the perjurer is green-lust; the heavy lid on the basket is the abomination spirit, which is set up by worshipping lustful sex or maroon.

3Nephi: 11:38-39 You must repent and be baptised in my name and become as a little child or you can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God. Verily, verily I say unto you this is my doctrine and whosoever builds upon this builds upon my rock and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.