Danzo Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 I was Just curious if people who haven't been baptized yet (youth, children, nonmember spouses, investigators, visitors) feel ostracized. I suspect different wards may treat people differently. I know in my ward, there are nonmember youth that attend, some just have friends here, some are from families that are investigating and some just like scouts.
hearserve Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 We have a number of non-members and former members who attend services and activities regularly. We have a man who, though not polynesian, frequently attends wearing a lava-lava. Non-member wives wearing slacks. Investigators wearing jeans and t-shirts. Multi-color hair on boys/girls/men/women. I've had some approach me and ask if any were offended by their attire/hair/tats, etc. I ask them if any one had ever said or did anything to make them think they weren't welcome, and I've never had any say yes. But then, our ward is located in the liberal bastion of Meridian, Idaho. 3
Tacenda Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 1 hour ago, hearserve said: We have a number of non-members and former members who attend services and activities regularly. We have a man who, though not polynesian, frequently attends wearing a lava-lava. Non-member wives wearing slacks. Investigators wearing jeans and t-shirts. Multi-color hair on boys/girls/men/women. I've had some approach me and ask if any were offended by their attire/hair/tats, etc. I ask them if any one had ever said or did anything to make them think they weren't welcome, and I've never had any say yes. But then, our ward is located in the liberal bastion of Meridian, Idaho. Wow, my ward is pretty basic compared to this. I've only seen one or two at the most wear pants to church in my entire life.
carbon dioxide Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 2 hours ago, Danzo said: I was Just curious if people who haven't been baptized yet (youth, children, nonmember spouses, investigators, visitors) feel ostracized. I suspect that unless they visit regularly, the members will probably not even known they are non-members unless they give that information.
The Nehor Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 I just went and visited some tonight and they said our Ward was, if anything, almost too welcoming. Wife said if they were not so warm and happy it might have been creepy.
Hamba Tuhan Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 10 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I just went and visited some tonight and they said our Ward was, if anything, almost too welcoming. Wife said if they were not so warm and happy it might have been creepy. I don't have enough information to answer the poll -- though I would find it odd that non-members would attend anywhere they felt ostracised -- but you just reminded me of what I do when I give people lifts to church for the first time. If they come from a warm, happy, welcoming culture, I say nothing, but if they're locals, I warn them in advance that they're going to be confronted by sincerely happy people who will want to shake their hands, ask their names, and probably invite them home for tea. If I don't do this, it can really be a bit overwhelming for them, a number of recent converts have told me.
Ginger Snaps Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 I feel like I live in a pretty open-minded ward. Nobody seems to bat an eye if someone comes in jeans or with tats/piercings or smelling of smoke. But I am a lifelong member, so I don't know that I'm in a position to say whether non-members get a sense of ostracism or not. I've never been in those shoes.
Yirgacheffe Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 3 hours ago, Danzo said: I was Just curious if people who haven't been baptized yet (youth, children, nonmember spouses, investigators, visitors) feel ostracized. I suspect different wards may treat people differently. I know in my ward, there are nonmember youth that attend, some just have friends here, some are from families that are investigating and some just like scouts. Why do scouts have to attend church?
Yirgacheffe Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said: I don't have enough information to answer the poll -- though I would find it odd that non-members would attend anywhere they felt ostracised -- but you just reminded me of what I do when I give people lifts to church for the first time. If they come from a warm, happy, welcoming culture, I say nothing, but if they're locals, I warn them in advance that they're going to be confronted by sincerely happy people who will want to shake their hands, ask their names, and probably invite them home for tea. If I don't do this, it can really be a bit overwhelming for them, a number of recent converts have told me. Tea?
Hamba Tuhan Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 22 minutes ago, Yirgacheffe said: Tea? Yep! 1
Danzo Posted January 20, 2016 Author Posted January 20, 2016 28 minutes ago, Yirgacheffe said: Why do scouts have to attend church? They meet at the church and attend some youth activities.
Rain Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 I would be shocked if anyone new, member or not felt ostracized in our ward. Some may feel not warmly welcomed, but I just don't see ostracized. We do our best to welcome everyone, but I can't control how they may feel when they come. 2
Hamba Tuhan Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 8 minutes ago, PeterPear said: Only if they smoke during meetings. We frequently have investigators who leave the chapel and walk to the far side of the car park to have a smoke. But I suspect you meant in meetings. 1
Stargazer Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 7 hours ago, Yirgacheffe said: Why do scouts have to attend church? They don't. I think he meant that some non-members like the scouting program so they come to youth activities, which is when the weekly troop meeting would take place.
Jeanne Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 11 hours ago, Danzo said: They meet at the church and attend some youth activities. This is a good thing..in my old ward when I was in my late teens, a non-member came to Sacrament Meeting on tesitmony Sunday and went straight to the pulpit an lit in on everybody about his son being excluded in scouts..because he didn't always attend meetings an stuff..I will never forget that!
Danzo Posted January 20, 2016 Author Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) In my neck of the woods, the biggest problem with people feeling welcome at church activities (If they are not members) seems to be more along the area of class differences rather than religious differences. One of my biggest complaints has always been the youth dances. They have come up with some weird rules on what people can wear (no denim) which well off people wouldn't have a problem with, but some of the poorer people who are not members (or they are members of the Hispanic branch) might not understand. I find it strange that someone could be kicked out of a church dance for wearing their best clothes, what they just wore to attend the temple or sacrament meeting. I also remember the case of an instigator, who was fairly poor attending our church with his son, who was probably 8 or 9. In his primary class, one of the other children asked him why he didn't wear his nice clothes to church (He was wearing his nicest clothes) which caused the parents to feel uncomfortable. I understand BYU has similar rules that appear to be based more on economic class than on actual standards of modesty. I think the youth dances are worse than BYU because BYU is a private institution where people are warned sufficiently ahead of time what to expect, whereas the youth dance activities are sponsered by the stake and should (in theory, at least) only be worried about standards of modesty and not on particular styles of clothing. I think we as church members need to be aware that our definition of modesty should not mean rich peoples clothing. Edited January 20, 2016 by Danzo 4
Jeanne Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 4 minutes ago, Danzo said: In my neck of the woods, the biggest problem with people feeling welcome at church activities (If they are not members) seems to be more along the area of class differences rather than religious differences. One of my biggest complaints has always been the youth dances. They have come up with some weird rules on what people can wear (no denim) which well off people wouldn't have a problem with, but some of the poorer people who are not members (or they are members of the Hispanic branch) might not understand. I find it strange that someone could be kicked out of a church dance for wearing their best clothes, what they just wore to attend the temple or sacrament meeting. I also remember the case of an instigator, who was fairly poor attending our church with his son, who was probably 8 or 9. In his primary class, one of the other children asked him why he didn't wear his nice clothes to church (He was wearing his nicest clothes) which caused the parents to feel uncomfortable. I understand BYU has similar rules that appear to be based more on economic class than on actual standards of modesty. I think the youth dances are worse than BYU because BYU is a private institution where people are warned sufficiently ahead of time what to expect, whereas the youth dance activities are sponsered by the stake and should (in theory, at least) only be worried about standards of modesty and not on particular styles of clothing. I think we as church members need to be aware that our definition of modesty should not mean rich peoples clothing. I just don't think God cares what kind of pants you have on...I hope some rules change for everyone.
Danzo Posted January 20, 2016 Author Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Jeanne said: I just don't think God cares what kind of pants you have on...I hope some rules change for everyone. I think he might care, I just don't think we should. Have been poor in the past, I remember when people had been inspired unexpectedly given away clothing for our daughter who needed new pants (her old ones were wearing out), so I do have a testimony that God does care what kind of pants one has on. Edited January 20, 2016 by Danzo 2
Doctor Steuss Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 I personally feel that use of the term "nonmember" rather than "guest" can in itself cause feelings of exclusion. This is only a recent feeling of mine though, and I'm not sure what exactly triggered it -- at a recent openhouse event though, the use of the term "nonmembers" to a room full of investigators made me bristle a bit. May have just been indigestion though (my wife is in the habit of buying tamales out of people’s car trunks).
cinepro Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 How would I know if the nonmembers in my ward feel ostracized or not? I certainly never waste my time talking to them. 1
Zakuska Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 Nonmembers ostricized? We dispensed with that year s ago... now we are working on ostricizing the faithful members.
Calm Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 7 hours ago, Doctor Steuss said: I personally feel that use of the term "nonmember" rather than "guest" can in itself cause feelings of exclusion. "Nonmember" would seem strange to me outside a discussion that requires one to use that distinction such as we have on the board. IIRC, most of the time in my experience leaders just use "visitor" but guests would work well an an open house where people have been actually invited as opposed to just possibly dropping in (not that guest would be a problem there, but visitor might be more likely to occur to the leader to use it). 1
3DOP Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 One cannot be "ostracized" from an organization of which one is not a member. It would be most unnatural if non-members of any organization should expect to immediately feel at home when they come as non-members. Of course. They are not at home. They are non-members. "Ostracization of non-members" is oxymoronic. It is linguistically impossible. If one wants to feel a part of any organization, one can seek to join, and only then does one qualify for ostracization. That is because only members of organizations can be ostracized. 4
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