When should you resign your L D S membership?

[JLHPROF]

5 minutes ago, Gray said:

In any case, what if someone feels impressed by the spirit to leave a church (this or any other)?

 

I don't believe God directs people away from this Church.  I really don't.  Anyone that believes that is deceived.  But they have their agency.

And you know what, if they are unhappy in the Church I am sure when they leave they will "feel" much better.  But they will definitely be further away from God.

[Robert F. Smith]

7 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

I don't believe God directs people away from this Church.  I really don't.  Anyone that believes that is deceived.  But they have their agency.

And you know what, if they are unhappy in the Church I am sure when they leave they will "feel" much better.  But they will definitely be further away from God.

Perhaps, but God does often inspire bishops and stake high councilmen to formally decide to eject some members, as much for their own good as for the good of the remaining congregation.

For a member who has become actively hostile and obnoxious in Church meetings (any church or synagogue or mosque), it might be a good idea to take stock and to decide whether resignation is in order.

[Tacenda]

I wonder if the church has evolved to wanting members like me, who are half in, half out to resign.  I feel in my heart they do.  And the missionary efforts are laid elsewhere. 

[KevinG]

2 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I wonder if the church has evolved to wanting members like me, who are half in, half out to resign.  I feel in my heart they do.  And the missionary efforts are laid elsewhere. 

I will be very blunt about my home teaching and missionary efforts.  If I feel that someone is really already out, and we're just pestering them or showing up for debates, I will offer the Bishop's address and tell them that if they have found a truer place for themselves they should get off the fence about it.

On the other hand if someone is genuinely struggling I am as patient as the day is long at trying to answer questions, provide support, and bring them closer to inner circle of activity.

Some people are persistently in doubt or crisis, and it is often wearying or confusing to know how to visit, or how to minister to them.  I do have a lot of self doubt about how much help a visit or discussion really is for those who seem to like being stuck halfway in and halfway out.  So I'm really hesitant to influence at times simply because I don't know what to do for them.

There is no secret message to home teachers to avoid those who are half way in and half way out.  There is probably a lot of confusion as to what to do with those who are perpetually on the fence.  It is almost easier to visit the active, or the inactive than those who we don't know how they really receive us, or when they really need a push one direction or the other.

 

[Gray]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

I don't believe God directs people away from this Church.  I really don't.  Anyone that believes that is deceived.  But they have their agency.

And you know what, if they are unhappy in the Church I am sure when they leave they will "feel" much better.  But they will definitely be further away from God.

 

You make church seem like a terrible trap, JLHPROF. Join because the spirit tells you too. You can trust your ability to discern the spirit then. But don't leave if the spirit tells you to leave. You can't trust your ability to discern the spirit in that special case. Don't leave even if it's causing you significant harm. No matter what, leaving is not an option. 

 

 

[JLHPROF]

Just now, Gray said:

 

You make church seem like a terrible trap, JLHPROF. Join because the spirit tells you too. You can trust your ability to discern the spirit then. But don't leave if the spirit tells you to leave. You can't trust your ability to discern the spirit in that special case. Don't leave even if it's causing you significant harm. No matter what, leaving is not an option.

 

 

"Join because the spirit tells you to, leave because the spirit tells you to"
 

Do you really believe that God is that inconsistent?  I don't.

[Walden]

For me, it came down to a matter of integrity....I could either fake it and live a life that was in opposition to my personal beliefs (a path that was causing much pain and confusion), or I could be honest about my beliefs and live an authentic life.

[Gray]

3 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

"Join because the spirit tells you to, leave because the spirit tells you to"
 

Do you really believe that God is that inconsistent?  I don't.

I wouldn't pretend to know the mind of God. Would you? Certainly we can find many examples in scripture where God is said to have commanded one thing, only to reverse it later. 

[Zakuska]

30 minutes ago, Gray said:

I wouldn't pretend to know the mind of God. Would you? Certainly we can find many examples in scripture where God is said to have commanded one thing, only to reverse it later. 

Or said one thing and did another. (eg. Amos 7)

[why me]

I think that people should resign when they seem to be actively fighting against the church. We have seen a couple of people who were excommunicated for going directly against the church publically. These people should have been true to themselves and resigned. Instead they forced the lds church to excommunicate them. Why? Perhaps it would be better for their exmormon career to have the church do so. Also, I can see people resigning because they do not want to live a hypocritical life. When one no longer believes, and wishes to separate themselves from the lds church, resigning is the best option. But even in this case, I don't think that resigning is necessary. How many people of other faiths do not live their faith and yet, never consider resigning? Many, if not most. So, why should a lds member resign?

[filovirus]

I asked a question a while back on this board. It can be summed up as this: Do those who willingly resign (reject the restored gospel by sending in a resignation letter) ever get rebaptized? The responses showed that only in extremely rare occasions will someone repent and return if they have done so.

I do understand that if a person has made covenants, whether through baptism or one of the higher covenants, and chooses not to live them faithfully, those covenants have no promise. I don't know if God let's a person out of their covenants just by a removal of a name from church records, but my own understanding would lead me to say no.

I hold to the idea that the ease of the repentance process leads to the greater likelihood of repentance. It is easier to return to the restored Gospel if a person's name has never been voluntarily removed. Pascal's Wager holds no real promise until true belief and faithfulness is achieved, but the ease of achieving true belief and faithfulness is greater if a person's name is on the rolls.

Edited December 5, 2015 by filovirus

[Teancum]

19 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

"Join because the spirit tells you to, leave because the spirit tells you to"
 

Do you really believe that God is that inconsistent?  I don't.

 Perhaps it is not God who is inconsistent but those who think God is speaking to them.

[Teancum]

On 12/4/2015, 4:59:12, Russell C McGregor said:

I answered "Other." That's because there's no option for "When you realise you are too apathetic to make an effort to live your covenants."

Incidentally, having a testimony that the Church is true is not a Temple Recommend requirement. I know they don't tell you that at the anti-Mormon "ministry" where you get your (cough) "information" (cough) but there it is.

 

Do you really believe the things you write or are you just sort of the Howard Stern Shock Jock of this board?  How would you react to a skeptic saying something like " the only reason you stay is you are to apathetic to see the evidence is overwhelming that the church is not true."  

Neither approach fosters civil discussion.

 

To your past point I think you are correct. Last TR interviews I had I essentially told my bishop and SP that I have severe questions and doubts on all the belief questions.  But I was able to answer all the practice questions the right way.  They gave me a recommend.  I was left to conclude that belief wa less important than behavior when it comes to getting a TR.

[Teancum]

21 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

 

No, I agree with your purpose.  Returning to God is the purpose.  But God establishes the way, we don't.  It's all about God, not us.

I disagree with your premise that God provides multiple paths back to his presence.  The idea that we each find our own happy happy way back to God is not scriptural.  Christ said the way back to God was narrow and few found it.  There is only one plan of salvation, and the path to exaltation is even narrower.

Its not scriptural in the canon you accept and the way you interpret it.  There are many other traditions and scriptures in the world.  The path to God through religion has never been clear.

[filovirus]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Do you really believe the things you write or are you just sort of the Howard Stern Shock Jock of this board?  How would you react to a skeptic saying something like " the only reason you stay is you are to apathetic to see the evidence is overwhelming that the church is not true."  

Neither approach fosters civil discussion.

 

To your past point I think you are correct. Last TR interviews I had I essentially told my bishop and SP that I have severe questions and doubts on all the belief questions.  But I was able to answer all the practice questions the right way.  They gave me a recommend.  I was left to conclude that belief wa less important than behavior when it comes to getting a TR.

The majority of the times a person goes through the temple, it is for and in behalf of those who have died. The person entering the temple is worthy, but may be skeptical of some church teachings. It is the belief of those who have died to accept the covenants or not the living person performing them

The covenants a person makes for himself are not sealed until they have been sanctified by the HG. This could take anywhere from instantaneous to many years down the road.

The temple is also a great place to meditate and reflect on issues of belief a person may have. Is there not a better place to ask questions to God than in his own home?

So yes, worthiness is the deciding factor.

Edited December 5, 2015 by filovirus

[Russell C McGregor]

On ‎06‎/‎12‎/‎2015‎ ‎6‎:‎46‎:‎49‎, Teancum said:

Do you really believe the things you write or are you just sort of the Howard Stern Shock Jock of this board?  How would you react to a skeptic saying something like " the only reason you stay is you are to apathetic to see the evidence is overwhelming that the church is not true."  

Neither approach fosters civil discussion.

 

To your past point I think you are correct. Last TR interviews I had I essentially told my bishop and SP that I have severe questions and doubts on all the belief questions.  But I was able to answer all the practice questions the right way.  They gave me a recommend.  I was left to conclude that belief wa less important than behavior when it comes to getting a TR.

As I think you realise, the resident proselytizing anti-Mormon started this thread in order to promote leaving the Church.

 

I don't support that program, and I don't admire devious methods of propagating that message.

 

If you don't like my approach, you are under no obligation to read my posts.

 

[Teancum]

31 minutes ago, Russell C McGregor said:

As I think you realise, the resident proselytizing anti-Mormon started this thread in order to promote leaving the Church.

 

I don't support that program, and I don't admire devious methods of propagating that message.

 

If you don't like my approach, you are under no obligation to read my posts.

 

 

1:. I don't pay much attention to the originator of this thread.   I did not know this board had a resident anti Mormon.

2:. I am happy to hear it.

3:. I can't help myself.   You are far to amusing at times in a strange sort of way.  

[Russell C McGregor]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

 

1:. I don't pay much attention to the originator of this thread.   I did not know this board had a resident anti Mormon.

2:. I am happy to hear it.

3:. I can't help myself.   You are far to amusing at times in a strange sort of way.  

 

You mean like that TV show, "Seconds From Disaster?"

 

[Teancum]

52 minutes ago, Russell C McGregor said:

 

You mean like that TV show, "Seconds From Disaster?"

 

I have not see the show but from the sounds of it yea that may be a good description.  :-)

[Damien the Leper]

On 12/4/2015 12:00:48, JLHPROF said:

Since when was religion all about "you".

Since religion isn't about God. Faith, covenant and relationship are central to God. I'm starting too see why Judaism isn't a religion. Jews are and always will be the people of God. No amount of Christian revisionism will change this or supersede the covenant made with Israel.  

[JLHPROF]

2 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

Since religion isn't about God. Faith, covenant and relationship are central to God. I'm starting too see why Judaism isn't a religion. Jews are and always will be the people of God. No amount of Christian revisionism will change this or supersede the covenant made with Israel.  

The Covenant was made with all of Israel, not just the tribe of Judah (Jews).

[halconero]

7 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

Since religion isn't about God. Faith, covenant and relationship are central to God. I'm starting too see why Judaism isn't a religion. Jews are and always will be the people of God. No amount of Christian revisionism will change this or supersede the covenant made with Israel.  

Depends on your definition on religion.  

Are we talking about religion in the Greco-Roman context, the modern popular usage, or the agnostic religious studies sense? 

I can't resist a good ribbing.

[FormerLDS]

I chose to leave when I realized that the Bible did not support LDS interpretation.  Specifically, when I chose to believe that Jesus Christ would give me eternal life immediately upon asking Him by His atonement alone and not by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.  

[halconero]

3 minutes ago, FormerLDS said:

I chose to leave when I realized that the Bible did not support LDS interpretation.  Specifically, when I chose to believe that Jesus Christ would give me eternal life immediately upon asking Him by His atonement alone and not by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.  

I'm glad you were able to find your own connection with God via the Bible and delve into studying it.

I disagree with your assessment on grace and the atonement, but that's not the topic of this thread so I'll leave it at that.

[sunstoned]

Never mind