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When should you resign your L D S membership?

Five Solas

By Five Solas
in General Discussions

When should you resign your L D S membership?  

40 members have voted

  1. 1. When should you resign your LDS membership?

    • Never!
      13
    • When you’ve become committed to an alternative worldview/theology (e.g., atheism, Islam, traditional Trinitarian Christianity)
      7
    • When you’re not committed to an alternative but you're nonetheless confident the LDS view is wrong (e.g., Joseph Smith didn’t see God, there never were any “Nephites”)
      3
    • You just don’t have & can't get a proper LDS testimony (e.g., no matter how many times you read the BoM, you can’t look your bishop in the eye and say you “know the Church is true”)--you’re getting older and life is passing you by (e.g., your lack of a temple recommend due to your lack of proper testimony makes it impossible to find a spouse within the church)
      2
    • Other
      15

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FormerLDS Experienced

FormerLDS

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, bluebell said:

So a person who is saved has Christ living with him even while he molests a child and then kills him or her?  That's your belief?  They can do horrible things, but their soul has Jesus Christ.  Is that right?

Imagine two corpses lying in a morgue.  One had been dead for over a year and one was pronounced dead only five minutes ago.

Which one is more dead?  

Likewise all sin is equally sinful to God.  All sin placed His Son on the cross.

Teancum Grand Master

Teancum

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, FormerLDS said:

Perhaps you should look it up.

Again, why is it those who claim you have to do something in order to have eternal life are never actually doing that which they claim?

The answer my dear LDS Christian friends is a plain as the nose on your face.

You do not have eternal life.  Period.  And according to what the Bible plainly says, those who do not have eternal life DO NOT have Jesus Christ.

What better reason to resign your LDS membership than over the very words of Jesus Christ?

Pure and utter poppycock.  Were you really ever LDS?  I will ask you like you have asked others here...have you ever read the Book of Mormon?

1
FormerLDS Experienced

FormerLDS

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Calm said:

Former LDS from what I remember of his previous posts used to believe the Bible is inerrant.  I am wondering if he has changed his belief and thus I phrased it that way.  Just interested in his response given his apparent rejection of the copies of the ancient manuscripts.

 

8 hours ago, Zakuska said:

1 John 3

 20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 
 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

 1 John 5

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

You don't "BELEIVE" in Jesus unless you keep ALL of his commandments.

If you don't keep Gods commandments you don't know/love Jesus or God the Father. Nor do you have Etneral Life.

Those who have the Son have eternal life.  How can you have Jesus Christ within you and not have his sinless perfection?

Though my body of flesh is still sinful, Christ has washed me and cleansed me from within, and I am sinless and perfect and meet that requirement through him forever more.

"Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me."

I have eternal life.  I could never say that as an LDS Christian.

Again, logical, sensible reason to resign your LDS membership.

Zakuska Grand Master

Zakuska

Posted
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, FormerLDS said:

 

Those who have the Son have eternal life.  How can you have Jesus Christ within you and not have his sinless perfection?

Though my body of flesh is still sinful, Christ has washed me and cleansed me from within, and I am sinless and perfect and meet that requirement through him forever more.

"Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me."

I have eternal life.  I could never say that as an LDS Christian.

Again, logical, sensible reason to resign your LDS membership.

You don't have the son unless you keep his commandments.

John 14:15

 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. "

1 John 2:5

4The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked. 

Even Paul agrees with Jesus and John on this point.

Romans 6

15 - What then? Shall we sin because we are not under Law but under grace? Certainly not!

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin [leading] to death, or of obedience [leading] to righteousness?

Paul continues...

Gal 3

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

What did Christ say the seed of Abraham would do?

John 8

38 "I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father."

39 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you are Abraham's children, do the deeds of Abraham.

 

Edited by Zakuska
1
Dgal Enthusiast

Dgal

Posted
Posted

Not sure how to answer this question. It makes the church sound like a club and not a church. How do you resign from God's church?!?!

JLHPROF Grand Master

JLHPROF

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, FormerLDS said:

I believe the Bible is inerrant.

Based on?

Spiritual witness?

The fact that it is almost entirely true and inspired leads to the idea that it is inerrant?

1
bluebell Grand Master

bluebell

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, FormerLDS said:

Imagine two corpses lying in a morgue.  One had been dead for over a year and one was pronounced dead only five minutes ago.

Which one is more dead?  

Likewise all sin is equally sinful to God.  All sin placed His Son on the cross.

Great.  

Now could you answer the questions I actually asked? :)

1
Zakuska Grand Master

Zakuska

Posted
Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, FormerLDS said:

Imagine two corpses lying in a morgue.  One had been dead for over a year and one was pronounced dead only five minutes ago.

Which one is more dead?  

Likewise all sin is equally sinful to God.  All sin placed His Son on the cross.

If all sin is "equal" in the eyes of God then the Bible lied.

1 John 5

 16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Edited by Zakuska
Russell C McGregor Veteran

Russell C McGregor

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, FormerLDS said:

Discussing copies of ancient manuscripts is completely worthless to me.  I'm sure you have a point and I'm sure whomever's books you've been meticulously absorbing have absolutely no bias with respect to their outcome.

If God created this world in seven days like he said he did, and if God could do all things miraculous within the scriptures like he said he did, then I chose to believe that he has enough power to preserve his written word from the time it was given to man until now like he said he did.  

Call for references, please. Where and when did God say that He has preserved "his written word from the time it was given to man until now?"

 

1
FormerLDS Experienced

FormerLDS

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Russell C McGregor said:

Call for references, please. Where and when did God say that He has preserved "his written word from the time it was given to man until now?"

 

Psalms 12:6-7  "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.  Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."

1
Russell C McGregor Veteran

Russell C McGregor

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, FormerLDS said:

Psalms 12:6-7  "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.  Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."

Two problems using this as a prooftext:

  1. It isn't God who's saying it. It is addressed to God, by the psalmist. This is what happens when you worship the Bible instead of actually reading it for comprehension.
  2. It doesn't say that the words of the LORD will be preserved in their written form, in all popular translations.

Sorry.

4
Scott Lloyd Grand Master

Scott Lloyd

Posted
Posted

I didn't vote, but I would have selected "other," had I been so inclined.

When should you resign from the Church?

When you can no longer control your compulsion to try to refashion the Church according to your own political, social, theological or other whims.

I want you in the Church, but not under those circumstances.

 

1
Teancum Grand Master

Teancum

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Based on?

Spiritual witness?

The fact that it is almost entirely true and inspired leads to the idea that it is inerrant?

Don't you base almost all of your own views on a spiritual witness?  That is about all you have for the LDS truth claims.

Zakuska Grand Master

Zakuska

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, FormerLDS said:

Psalms 12:6-7  "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.  Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."

If Gods word is perfectly preserved as he gave it... in its entirety... every Jot and Tittle as you pretend then why does he say the opposite to the Prophet Jeremiah?

Jer 8

8 “How can you say, ‘We are wise,
and the law of the LORD is with us’?
But behold, the lying pen of the scribes
has made it into a lie."

 

 

Edited by Zakuska
halconero Grand Master

halconero

Posted
Posted
On December 9, 2015 at 7:08 PM, FormerLDS said:

Discussing copies of ancient manuscripts is completely worthless to me.  I'm sure you have a point and I'm sure whomever's books you've been meticulously absorbing have absolutely no bias with respect to their outcome.

If God created this world in seven days like he said he did, and if God could do all things miraculous within the scriptures like he said he did, then I chose to believe that he has enough power to preserve his written word from the time it was given to man until now like he said he did.

I'm sure the spherical-earth believers had the same lively discussions in their day with the flat-earth believers, but no avail because they had an opposing point-of-view on a fundamental level which completely negated taking the other side seriously (even though they were scholars of their time). 

So whatever Bart and Wright (and whomever else you're reading) cough up, I'm sure sounds great, but to me just sounds like a bunch of flat-earth nonsense.  I'm just not interested in why that crowd thinks the Bible is wrong, mistranslated, etc...

  

As I said before, I'm not consulting from copies of ancient manuscripts, but the manuscripts themselves. Most recently the Papyrus 47 contained at the University of Michigan, and the few pictures I was allowed to take on my phone.

With regards to books I'm consulting...well...I'm not really consulting anything at the moment. 

To be honest, I have no problem with God conserving his word, and I'm not necessarily accusing the KJV translators of major errors either. What I'm accusing you is not understanding the transition semantics and syntax have made in the past 400-years. Surely you acknowledge that languages change, or do you believe that Middle English or old Anglo-Saxon are the same as Modern Euroamerican English?

Again, I don't want to detract from the point of this thread, but I'll happily create a new one to discuss the points you raise. Five Solas is generally pretty gracious in debate, even if I disagree with him. If you have concerns with my bias, problems with translation, or manuscripts, please provide specifics.

I'll reiterate my invitation: Do you want to have a substantive debate/discussion on this, or would you rather continue accusing me of bias, of relying on inaccurate manuscripts, or other notions of dishonesty without any basis? Seriously, let's hash this out together. It can only serve to enrich us both. Competing ideas serve to strengthen or demolish one another, whether you deem the opposing argument "worthless" or not.

1
Five Solas Mentor

Five Solas

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On 12/8/2015 at 10:56 AM, Russell C McGregor said:

Call for references that I have ever claimed to be able to read minds, discern the human heart, etc.

 

 

CFR that I ever claimed that you ever claimed to have made an explicit claim to read minds, etc...

;0)

And before you blast away with yet another righteously indignant post--you might consider what's implicit in your post back on page two ("the resident proselytizing anti-Mormon started this thread in order to promote leaving the Church").  That, my friend, constitutes mind-reading.  Albeit not a successful example--in my previous post I explained my motive for the thread.  You missed, again. 

--Erik 

Five Solas Mentor

Five Solas

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Less is more sometimes, FormerLDS.  Don't feel you need to get the last word on every point raised and don't take threads too far off topic.  Pace yourself & stay awhile.  Be good to have you around. 

:0)

--Erik

2
saemo Mentor

saemo

Posted
Posted (edited)

I voted Never, because, well, I don't see the point in jumping through the hoops for an organization from which, I left. The hoop jumping is for its believers! :lol::D

Edited by saemo
1
Deborah Grand Master

Deborah

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, saemo said:

I voted Never, because, well, I don't see the point in jumping through the hoops for an organization from which, I left. The hoop jumping is for its believers! :lol::D

I so agree, lol.

Anakin7 Veteran

Anakin7

Posted
Posted

    No once saved Always saved is in The Holy Bible one needs to do something with Jesus Christ Grace in Rightiousness to connected to Him to accept/access/acticate it to cleanse them.

The Atonement it Is The Central Doctrine

           In His Eternal Debt/Grace

                        Anakin7

consiglieri Grand Master

consiglieri

Posted
Posted
On ‎12‎/‎4‎/‎2015 at 9:28 PM, Mystery Meat said:

Never. No one should ever give up their membership in the only true and living church on the face of the whole earth. That would seem to be...silly.

I suppose one might consider resigning upon concluding that it is not the only true and living church on the face of the whole earth . . .

Mystery Meat Veteran

Mystery Meat

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, consiglieri said:

I suppose one might consider resigning upon concluding that it is not the only true and living church on the face of the whole earth . . .

True. People are given agency to be wrong.

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