When should you resign your L D S membership?

[consiglieri]

15 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

What tripe!

But for anyone here who is interested, see Alma 30:17 to see how Korihor expresses the same or similar thinking.

So you must be one of those who believes the Book of Mormon does quote Shakespeare.

[Scott Lloyd]

26 minutes ago, consiglieri said:

So you must be one of those who believes the Book of Mormon does quote Shakespeare.

Not at all.

But both "Hamlet" and the Book of Mormon tell of individuals who were pretty screwed up in their thinking.

Here's what Korihor said, by the way:

Quote

17 And many more such things did he say unto them, telling them that there could be no atonement made for the sins of men, but every man fared in this life according to the management of the creature; therefore every man prospered according to his genius, and that every man conquered according to his strength; and whatsoever a man did was no crime.

-- Alma 30:17, emphasis mine

Edited December 11, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[consiglieri]

Actually that is substantially different than the quote from Hamlet.

[Teancum]

17 hours ago, Russell C McGregor said:

Is self-righteous piety any worse than self-righteous rebellion?

Years ago in Mad magazine I saw a comic strip that showed three hippies with identical hair, beards and clothes; one was carrying a sign that said, "Ban conformity." The piety of "dissent" -- a dissent that merely follows the views of another crowd -- can be every bit as self-congratulatory and self-righteous as the piety of those at whom you take potshots.

So do try not to be too quick to pass judgement, lest your own judgement come back to bite you.

 1:. Well my guess is both have negative results.

2:. I loved Mad Magazine when I was young.  Your reference was good and well received by me.

3: Russell I agree.  This is why I go very slow,. I hope you can follow your own council.

[Guest]

You should only do so after much fasting and prayer, the same way you gained it. 

[JAHS]

21 hours ago, consiglieri said:

So you must be one of those who believes the Book of Mormon does quote Shakespeare.

Shakespeare can also be found in the Bible:

Psalms 46

3 Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah.

9 He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire.

Edited December 12, 2015 by JAHS

[hagoth7]

On 12/11/2015 at 8:45 AM, hagoth7 said:

...Not that the polka dot statement qualifies the former portion of the statement, just as the "with which I the Lord am well pleased" statement qualifies the former portion of the larger statement. Is it appropriate to snatch just the first half of the statement and affirm that it is still a true statement? To me, it seems a bit of a leap. But I'm willing to stand corrected.

President Benson made it quite clear the church was under condemnation. Has that clear statement been lifted by any authoritative source since?

If not, how is the oft-cited snipped-off phrase "only true and living church" an appropriate abbreviation of the passage's intended meaning?

Thoughts?

For clarity, I meant to say "Note that the polka dot statement..."

The missing "e" distorts my intended meaning. Apologies for the typo.

Edited December 12, 2015 by hagoth7

[consiglieri]

13 hours ago, JAHS said:

Shakespeare can be found in the Bible:

Psalms 46

3 Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah.

9 He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire.

LOL!  I hadn't heard that before.

I think that is not only clever, but an excellent example of how scriptures can be used to proof-text anything.

[Avatar4321]

On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2015 at 9:48 AM, consiglieri said:

If we take President Benson's statement seriously--that the Church is under condemnation--perhaps going somewhere else might be the prudent thing to do?

wouldn't repentance be more prudent than abandonment?

[Five Solas]

4 hours ago, consiglieri said:

LOL!  I hadn't heard that before.

I think that is not only clever, but an excellent example of how scriptures can be used to proof-text anything.

That, or it simply serves to demonstrate Shakespeare had access to the Bible (the 1560 "Geneva" edition, to be exact).  Occam's razor & all...

;0)

--Erik

[hagoth7]

On 12/11/2015 at 8:48 AM, consiglieri said:

If we take President Benson's statement seriously--that the Church is under condemnation--perhaps going somewhere else might be the prudent thing to do?

Withdrawing is certainly one approach. I might find it prudent to withdraw if I were to conclude after careful consideration that those in and/or out of the church might benefit better if I were an outsider. There was a time years ago, during a personal crisis, when I decided to withdraw for completely negative reasons. I am glad I didn't go through with it. (Don't drive angry.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBpw1sdFu2w

Rather than withdrawing, another option is to bear one anothers' burdens, and to build up (rather than tear down), to do what little we each can to see that the condemnation is lifted. President Benson said the issue was a sin of omission, and specifically explained how to come out from under such condemnation.

His message on that topic impressed upon me deeply. He didn't encourage us to throw up our hands, say the sky is falling, give up, and leave. Instead, his plea was for us to roll up our sleeves and get to work with the Nephite record, both in our homes and in society at large.

President Benson's comments have much to do with the motivation behind most of my research/writing, including one of the other things he also requested: screenplays. It all revolves around two steps. Step 1: turning the hearts of the children to their forefathers (to pique more interest in, appreciation for, and pondering of the Nephite record). I don't imagine playing a role in Step 2.

Edited December 13, 2015 by hagoth7