Jump to content
Seriously No Politics ×

Can The Bible Prove The Book Of Mormon Is The Word Of God?


Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Putting this out there for discussion. I know this is a long post, but I say that anyone who believes the Bible and believes in Jesus Christ, and who carefully reads this post, will know that the Bible proves the Book of Mormon is the word of God. (If you are a faithful Latter-day Saint, you will really like this post.)

 

In the Bible, 1 John, chapter 4, we can clearly read the criteria for true prophets and false in verses 1-3:

 

“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

 

“Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

 

“And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”

 

Now that we know God’s criteria for knowing true prophets from false prophets, let’s see if the Book of Mormon prophets confess that “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.”

 

600 years before the coming of the Savior, a Book of Mormon prophet named Nephi wrote that the Messiah of whom the prophets had spoken was the Son of God, and he declared, “The way is prepared for all men from the foundation of the world if it so be that they repent and come unto him.”

 

Lehi, another prophet, told his son Jacob, “There is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh and taketh it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise.

 

“Wherefore, he is the firstfruits unto God, inasmuch as he shall make intercession for all the children of men; and they that believe in him shall be saved.”

 

Nephi prophesied to his people, “Behold, they will crucify him; and after he is laid in a sepulchre for the space of three days, he shall rise from the dead with healing in his wings; and all those who shall believe on his name shall be saved in the kingdom of God. Wherefore, my soul delighteth to prophesy concerning him, for I have seen his day and my heart doth magnify his holy name.

 

“For according to the words of the prophets, the Messiah cometh in six hundred years from the time that my father left Jerusalem; and according to the words of the prophets, and also the word of the angel of God, his name shall be Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

 

“And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this, ye shall in nowise be cast out.”

 

We read in the Book of Mormon that a King named Benjamin foretold the coming of the Savior about 120 years before his birth: “For behold, the time cometh and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

 

“And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary.”

 

After King Benjamin finished his lengthy talk putting forth the precepts of eternal salvation, the people responded: “We believe all the words which thou hast spoken unto us; and also we know of their surety and truth because of the Spirit of the Lord Omnipotent, which has wrought a mighty change in us, or in our hearts, that we have no more disposition to do evil but to do good continually.”

 

Abinadi, another prophet, testified to wicked King Noah and his priests, “I say unto you that salvation doth not come by the law alone, and were it not for the atonement, which God himself shall make for the sins and iniquities of his people, that they must unavoidably perish, notwithstanding the law of Moses.

 

“For behold, did not Moses prophesy concerning the coming of the Messiah and that God should redeem his people? Yea, and even all the prophets who have prophesied ever since the world began—have they not spoken more or less concerning these things?

 

“Have they not said that God himself should come down among the children of men and take upon him the form of man and go forth in mighty power upon the face of the earth?

 

“And have they not said also that he should bring to pass the resurrection of the dead and that he, himself, should be oppressed and afflicted?

 

“I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men and shall redeem his people.”

 

Abinadi prophesied that the Lord would suffer temptation “and yieldeth not to the temptation but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people.

 

“And after all this, after working many mighty miracles among the children of men, he shall be led, yea, even as Isaiah said, as a sheep before the shearer is dumb, so he opened not his mouth.

 

“Even so, he shall be led, crucified, and slain.”

 

Abinadi continued, “And thus God breaketh the bands of death, having gained the victory over death; giving the Son power to make intercession for the children of men.

 

“And now if Christ had not come into the world, speaking of things to come as though they had already come, there could have been no redemption.

 

“And if Christ had not risen from the dead, or have broken the bands of death, that the grave should have no victory and that death should have no sting, there could have been no resurrection.

 

“But there is a resurrection, therefore, the grave hath no victory and the sting of death is swallowed up in Christ.

 

“He is the light and the life of the world; yea, a light that is endless that can never be darkened; yea, and also a life which is endless that there can be no more death.

 

“And now, ought ye not to tremble and repent of your sins, and remember that only in and through Christ ye can be saved?”

 

Alma the elder, who believed the words of Abinadi, went among the people of King Noah teaching the words of Abinadi. He taught them about the resurrection of the dead and the redemption that would be brought to pass through the power, and sufferings, and death of Christ and his resurrection and ascension into heaven.

 

In due time, Alma returned to the land of Zarahemla and organized the Church of Christ among the Nephites throughout the land, and all those who desired to take upon them the name of Christ joined themselves to the Church.

 

Not long afterwards, the Lord spoke unto Alma these words: “Blessed is this people who are willing to bear my name; for in my name shall they be called; and they are mine.”

 

The Lord also said to Alma, “Thou art my servant; and I covenant with thee that thou shalt have eternal life; and thou shalt serve me and go forth in my name and shalt gather together my sheep.

 

“And he that will hear my voice shall be my sheep; and him shall ye receive into the church and him will I also receive.

 

“For behold, this is my church; whosoever is baptized shall be baptized unto repentance. And whomsoever ye receive shall believe in my name and him will I freely forgive.

 

“For it is I that taketh upon me the sins of the world; for it is I that hath created them; and it is I that granteth unto him that believeth unto the end a place at my right hand.

 

“For behold, in my name are they called; and if they know me, they shall come forth and shall have a place eternally at my right hand.

 

“And it shall come to pass that when the second trump shall sound, then shall they that never knew me come forth and shall stand before me. (That would include all those who have rejected the true gospel of Jesus Christ that he has restored in these latter days.)

 

“And then shall they know that I am the Lord their God, that I am their Redeemer; but they would not be redeemed.”

 

Alma the younger, after having gone about with the sons of Mosiah seeking to destroy the church of God, and after having had an angel appear unto him to admonish him of his iniquity, and after having been racked with the pains of eternal torment for three days, testified to the people, “I have repented of my sins and have been redeemed of the Lord; behold I am born of the Spirit.

 

“And the Lord said unto me: Marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, must be born again; yea, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters;

 

“And thus they become new creatures; and unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.”

 

Alma explained, “Unless this be the case, they must be cast off; and this I know, because I was like to be cast off.

 

“Nevertheless, after wading through much tribulation, repenting nigh unto death, the Lord in mercy hath seen fit to snatch me out of an everlasting burning, and I am born of God.

 

“My soul hath been redeemed from the gall of bitterness and bonds of iniquity. I was in the darkest abyss; but now I behold the marvelous light of God. My soul was racked with eternal torment; but I am snatched and my soul is pained no more.

 

“I rejected my Redeemer and denied that which had been spoken of by our fathers; but now that they may foresee that he will come and that he remembereth every creature of his creating, he will make himself manifest unto all.

 

“Yea, every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess before him. Yea, even at the last day, when all men shall stand to be judged of him, then shall they confess that he is God; then shall they confess, who live without God in the world, that the judgment of an everlasting punishment is just upon them; and they shall quake, and tremble, and shrink beneath the glance of his all-searching eye.”

 

King Lamoni, a Lamanite who found salvation thru the preaching of Ammon, proclaimed, “Behold, I have seen my Redeemer; and he shall come forth and be born of a woman, and he shall redeem all mankind who believe on his name.”

 

Aaron taught the Lamanites “concerning the coming of Christ, and also concerning the resurrection of the dead, and that there could be no redemption for mankind save it were through the death and sufferings of Christ and the atonement of his blood.”

 

Aaron also expounded unto Lamoni’s father that “since man had fallen, he could not merit anything of himself; but the sufferings and death of Christ atone for their sins through faith and repentance and so forth; and that he breaketh the bands of death, that the grave shall have no victory, and that the sting of death should be swallowed up in the hopes of glory.”

 

In Mormon’s narrative, he wrote, “Thus we see the great call of diligence of men to labor in the vineyards of the Lord; and thus we see the great reason of sorrow, and also of rejoicing—sorrow because of death and destruction among men, and joy because of the light of Christ unto life.”

 

Alma taught the Zoramites to “believe in the Son of God, that he will come to redeem his people, and that he shall suffer and die to atone for their sins; and that he shall rise again from the dead, which shall bring to pass the resurrection, that all men shall stand before him to be judged at the last and judgment day.”

 

Alma instructed his son Helaman to bring the message of salvation to the Nephites, stating, “Preach unto them repentance and faith on the Lord Jesus Christ; teach them to humble themselves and to be meek and lowly in heart; teach them to withstand every temptation of the devil with their faith on the Lord Jesus Christ.”

 

Just prior to the birth of the Savior, the Lord spoke to Nephi, this Nephi being the son of Nephi, who was the son of Helaman, and the Lord said, “Lift up your head and be of good cheer; for behold, the time is at hand, and on this night shall the sign be given, and on the morrow come I into the world to show unto the world that I will fulfil all that which I have caused to be spoken by the mouth of my holy prophets.”

 

After his resurrection and ascension into Heaven, the risen Savior appeared to the Nephites and the first thing he said was: “Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world.

 

“And behold, I am the light and the life of the world; and I have drunk out of that bitter cup which the Father hath given me and have glorified the Father in taking upon me the sins of the world, in the which I have suffered the will of the Father in all things from the beginning.”

 

And after the Nephites fell to the earth in astonishment, the Savior said: “Arise and come forth unto me that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.”

 

All of these scriptures and more are in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon truly is a testimony of Jesus Christ written by prophets of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Again, the Biblical criteria for true prophets and false prophets is in 1 John, chapter 4, verses 1-3.

 

“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

 

“Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

 

“And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”

 

Anyone who believes in Jesus Christ and believes what the Bible says will believe the Book of Mormon, and they will know that it is the word of God.

 

Give heed to the words of Nephi, a Book of Mormon prophet who wrote, “And if they are not the words of Christ, judge ye—for Christ will show unto you with power and great glory that they are his words at the last day; and you and I shall stand face to face before his bar; and ye shall know that I have been commanded of him to write these things.”

 

If you have carefully read every word of this post, then I ask do you agree that the Bible proves the Book of Mormon is the word of God?

Edited by Tony Frank
Posted

The word "prove" is too strong.  What might convince one person may not convince another.  The Bible can be used to help people understand or accept the Book of Mormon but that is about as far as one can expect to go with it.

Posted

That's quite the sermon.

The bible provides evidences that can be used in accordance with Hebrews to increase our faith in the Book of Mormon.

But the only thing close enough to be considered "proof" is a spiritual witness and that can only prove to the recipient, not the world. So no, the bible cannot prove the Book of Mormon.

Posted

Anyone could use the critereia you quote from the Bible, write up their own scriptures based on that criteria, and claim the Bible proves their work is the word of God. Nothing can prove any religious writings or doctrines are the word of God. Only the Holy Ghost can do that.

Posted

Are there verses in the Bible that can be interpreted to be consistent with the story of the Book of Mormon? Yes.

Is this proof? No.

 

Playing the devil's advocate, does not the devil know the scriptures and could create a situation that would seem to be consistent with the Bible for the purpose of deceiving the very elect of God?

Posted (edited)

If you have carefully read every word of this post, then I ask do you agree that the Bible proves the Book of Mormon is the word of God?

No.

BTW, I've read similar long claims from Islam and Baha'i. Your post is reminiscent of the rambling writings of Bahá'u'llá, though he goes to great lengths to prove that the Bible and the Quran show his claimed revelations and himself, are of the same divine origin. This proved him not only right, but a Manifestation that is no different than Jesus. Both he and Jesus come in the flesh, as messengers from God who are in essence, GOD. Which of course can only be rightly understood in the spirit and not the flesh.

Islam is a bit different, by reducing Jesus by denying his divinity, accepting him as come in the flesh, as a prophet and messiah. Muhammad also claiming to be THE prophetic messenger for God, though not divine.

Both claim the Bible supports their unique scriptures, and for Robert Smith, vice versa, that their unique scriptures support the Bible.

I'd say all three have a commonality that the Bible is interpreted through a lense of unique scripture, that belongs to each religion, and is held by each as divinely sourced from God.

(Baha'i are pluralistic, and I could see them accepting the Book of Mormon as divine scripture, the same as the Bible, Quran, and the Baghavad Gita. All which of course, prove the revelations of Bahá'u'lláh.)

Edited by saemo
Posted

And then we have the question of why believe either.

It's the spirit or nothing. Every world religion has their scriptures.

Posted

Can The Bible Prove The Book Of Mormon Is The Word Of God?

No, but the Book of Mormon can prove the Bible is the Word of God.

 

Sort of circular reasoning. You are assuming that the person already has proof that the Book of Mormon is the word of God (again the word "proof" not a good word to use). This might work for faithful LDS members but not for someone outside the church who doesn't believe in either. But having two separate sets of scripture testifying of Jesus Christ might be helpful for some.

Posted

Curiously, this contradicts a canonised scripture, and central narrative of the restoration.

 

On the contrary, Mormon's last words before he died state that those who believe the Bible will believe the Book of Mormon.

 

 8 Therefore repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus, and lay hold upon the gospel of Christ, which shall be set before you, not only in this record but also in the record which shall come unto the Gentiles from the Jews, which record shall come from the Gentiles unto you.
 
 9 For behold, this is written for the intent that ye may believe that; and if ye believe that ye will believe this also; and if ye believe this ye will know concerning your fathers, and also the marvelous works which were wrought by the power of God among them.
 
 10 And ye will also know that ye are a remnant of the seed of Jacob; therefore ye are numbered among the people of the first covenant; and if it so be that ye believe in Christ, and are baptized, first with water, then with fire and with the Holy Ghost, following the example of our Savior, according to that which he hath commanded us, it shall be well with you in the day of judgment. 
Posted

... do you agree that the Bible proves the Book of Mormon is the word of God?

Yes, when I use a peculiar definition of proof.

Like how pure alcohol is the highest rating of proof when it is pure alcohol, any scripture is as much proof as any other scripture that all scripture is scripture/the word of God.

Posted (edited)

To the question: Can _____ Prove _______ Is The Word Of God?

 

The answer is always no. 

Edited by Gray
Posted

On the contrary, Mormon's last words before he died state that those who believe the Bible will believe the Book of Mormon.

 

 8 Therefore repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus, and lay hold upon the gospel of Christ, which shall be set before you, not only in this record but also in the record which shall come unto the Gentiles from the Jews, which record shall come from the Gentiles unto you.

 

 9 For behold, this is written for the intent that ye may believe that; and if ye believe that ye will believe this also; and if ye believe this ye will know concerning your fathers, and also the marvelous works which were wrought by the power of God among them.

 

 10 And ye will also know that ye are a remnant of the seed of Jacob; therefore ye are numbered among the people of the first covenant; and if it so be that ye believe in Christ, and are baptized, first with water, then with fire and with the Holy Ghost, following the example of our Savior, according to that which he hath commanded us, it shall be well with you in the day of judgment.

Never did any passage of scripture come with more power to the heart of man than this did at this time to mine. It seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my heart. I reflected on it again and again, knowing that if any person needed wisdom from God, I did; for how to act I did not know, and unless I could get more wisdom than I then had, I would never know; for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible.

Posted (edited)

Can The Bible Prove The Book Of Mormon Is The Word Of God?

No, but the Book of Mormon can prove the Bible is the Word of God.

Sort of circular reasoning. You are assuming that the person already has proof that the Book of Mormon is the word of God (again the word "proof" not a good word to use). This might work for faithful LDS members but not for someone outside the church who doesn't believe in either. But having two separate sets of scripture testifying of Jesus Christ might be helpful for some.

Even non-believers admit that the Bible is an authentic ancient document, even though it is clear that one cannot prove any of the extraordinary religious events in the Bible (Exodus, Resurrection, etc.).  Thus, the Bible cannot be used to verify the Book of Mormon.

 

Indeed, although it is easy to see that, in the case of Bayesian Probability theory, the normally subjective application of the theory to the Bible suffers from a fatal confirmation bias,[1] no such limitation applies to serious application of such scholarship to the Book of Mormon.  That is, one does not have to Aprove@ the Book of Mormon true, but (due to its very improbable origin) merely to provide a cumulative Abody of data@ which raises the level of likelihood to Aprobable.@[2]  The preponderance of evidence willy-nilly carries the day.  This means that the Book of Mormon can actually be used to verify the Bible, but not vice-versa.

[1] Cf. Stephen Unwin, The Probability of God: A Simple Calculation that Proves the Ultimate Truth (Crown Forum, 2003) versus Herman Philipse, God in the Age of Science? A Critique of Religious Reason (Oxford Univ. Press, 2012), part I.

[2] James Joyce, ABayes' Theorem,@ Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Sep 30, 2003, online at http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/bayes‑theorem/ ; David Howie, Interpreting Probability: Controversies and Developments in the Early Twentieth Century, Cambridge Studies in Probability, Induction and Decision Theory (Cambridge Univ. Press, 2002).

Edited by Robert F. Smith
Posted

Never did any passage of scripture come with more power to the heart of man than this did at this time to mine. It seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my heart. I reflected on it again and again, knowing that if any person needed wisdom from God, I did; for how to act I did not know, and unless I could get more wisdom than I then had, I would never know; for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible.

How would you answer if someone asked you if any scripture could prove to you that it is the word of God?

My answer would include the idea that only scripture could prove to me that it is.

Posted

 

Even non-believers admit that the Bible is an authentic ancient document, even though it is clear that one cannot prove any of the extraordinary religious events in the Bible (Exodus, Resurrection, etc.).  Thus, the Bible cannot be used to verify the Book of Mormon.

 

Indeed, although it is easy to see that, in the case of Bayesian Probability theory, the normally subjective application of the theory to the Bible suffers from a fatal confirmation bias,[1] no such limitation applies to serious application of such scholarship to the Book of Mormon.  That is, one does not have to Aprove@ the Book of Mormon true, but (due to its very improbable origin) merely to provide a cumulative Abody of data@ which raises the level of likelihood to Aprobable.@[2]  The preponderance of evidence willy-nilly carries the day.  This means that the Book of Mormon can actually be used to verify the Bible, but not vice-versa.

[1] Cf. Stephen Unwin, The Probability of God: A Simple Calculation that Proves the Ultimate Truth (Crown Forum, 2003) versus Herman Philipse, God in the Age of Science? A Critique of Religious Reason (Oxford Univ. Press, 2012), part I.

[2] James Joyce, ABayes' Theorem,@ Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Sep 30, 2003, online at http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/bayes‑theorem/ ; David Howie, Interpreting Probability: Controversies and Developments in the Early Twentieth Century, Cambridge Studies in Probability, Induction and Decision Theory (Cambridge Univ. Press, 2002).

 

Sorry. I do not understand anything you said here. But I'm pretty sure I don't agree with it.

Posted

That's quite the sermon.

The bible provides evidences that can be used in accordance with Hebrews to increase our faith in the Book of Mormon.

But the only thing close enough to be considered "proof" is a spiritual witness and that can only prove to the recipient, not the world. So no, the bible cannot prove the Book of Mormon.

 

OK. So how about this. Can anyone who believes the Bible and believes in Jesus Christ use the Bible to KNOW from 1 John, chapter 4, verses 1-3 that the Book of Mormon is the word Of God?

 

As I stated in my OP, 1 John 4:1-3 states the criteria for knowing true prophets from false prophets; “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”

 

The Book of Mormon is all about Jesus Christ coming to Earth, taking upon him flesh and blood, suffering and dying for the sins of man, and being resurrected on the third day, which means the Book of Mormon prophets clearly meet Johns criteria as stated in 1 John 4:1-3. The Book of Mormon states very clearly that “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.”

Posted

Anyone who believes in the Bible and the Book of Mormon (presumably due to spiritual witnesses) has no need of scripture from either one to prove the other. They may see the connections such as you mention as faith strengthening (I would agree).

As for "knowing" the Book of Mormon is the word of God when one already believes it is...faith vs knowledge is a different discussion, but scripture doesn't change belief to knowledge.

Posted

Anyone who believes in the Bible and the Book of Mormon (presumably due to spiritual witnesses) has no need of scripture from either one to prove the other. They may see the connections such as you mention as faith strengthening (I would agree).

As for "knowing" the Book of Mormon is the word of God when one already believes it is...faith vs knowledge is a different discussion, but scripture doesn't change belief to knowledge.

 

In his first epistle to the Church, the apostle John clearly told the people how they can KNOW true prophets from false prophets. If a person believes the Bible and then obtains a Book of Mormon, why couldn't that person use the same criteria for knowing that the Book of Mormon prophets are true prophets?

 

“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

 

“Hereby KNOW ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

 

“And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”

Posted

Sorry. I do not understand anything you said here. But I'm pretty sure I don't agree with it.

In short, although the Bible is an ancient document, none of the miracles depicted in its pages can be proven.  On the other hand, the Book of Mormon comes from implausible (or even preposterous) origins in the 19th century:  It cannot be true based on reasonable appraisals of its origins.  Yet the evidence for the Book of Mormon is too strong statistically to be mere happenstance, and that is not possible unless it comes via miraculous origins, as described.  It thus becomes an authentic second witness of the Bible, since it attests to the Bible.  See examples of my detailed arguments at FairMormon, http://www.fairmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/PREPOSTEROUS-BOOK-OF-MORMON.pdf .

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...