Ojibwe Chief Testifies of Book of Mormon and Calls the Church Out

[latterdaytemplar]

Chief Midegah Ogichidaa of the Red Bear Pembina Chippewa Indians was recently featured in a YouTube video posted by Book of Mormon Heartland entitled "Question to the Church - Chief Midegah of the Ojibwe", wherein he testifies of the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ and states that many of the traditions restored in the Church (and found even in the Church's temple ceremonies) have also been preserved in the Ojibwe culture and (sweat) lodges (including, as he claims, the same tokens and signs).

He details how he (not alone, but with all of the elders who run the lodges in his tribe) recently presented their tribal origins and beliefs to the top rabbis of the Jewish Learning Institute, the National Committee for the Furtherance of Jewish Education, the Rabbinical Councils, and the Yeshiva from Jerusalem; and, after hearing the oral traditions of the Ojibwe, officials from each of these Jewish organizations, together with the Ojibwe elders, signed a joint proclamation stating that the Jewish and the Ojibwe are one and the same. This event was also detailed in a Jewish publication called Anash Magazine (Issue 03, Vayeitzei 5784).

His question to the Church is why the Church has not made any formal declaration stating the same about such Anishinaabe peoples as the Ojibwe being descendants of the Lamanites as described in the Book of Mormon when such Jewish organizations are willing to acknowledge the Ojibwe as having come from the same origins as they did.

It also looks like Book of Mormon Heartland is helping to sponsor a "Book of Mormon / Ojibwe Conference" in September.

I found the whole thing interesting and thought that I would share it here.

Edited May 24 by latterdaytemplar

[Calm]

46 minutes ago, latterdaytemplar said:

signed a joint proclamation stating that the Jewish and the Ojibwe are one and the same

That is not what the article said.  I am trying to find the text of the proclamation to see if it’s more than about a shared set of beliefs.  Solidarity is not a shared identity or heritage.

 

Edited May 24 by Calm

[latterdaytemplar]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

That is not what the article said.  I am trying to find the text of the proclamation to see if it’s more than about a shared set of beliefs.

You are right. The Chief said it in the video.

There is a picture of the declaration in the article, but it is too small for me to tell what its text says.

[Calm]

Quote

 Specifically, it included the Ojibwa’s acceptance of the truth of Torah and the Seven Noahide Commandments. Likewise, they shared their ancient tradition of Seven Grandfather Teachings.

Ask Noah International and Unite The World organized and co-sponsored the meetings and events.

To read the feature article in Anash Magazine, click here.

A main accomplishment was the signing of a Joint Declaration. It acknowledged understandings shared by the Midew Elders, Doodeman Ogemas and Ogichidaag of the Anishinaabe Ojibway People, and the Sages of the Jewish People. The following is a summary of the Proclamation’s seven sections:

1: Acknowledging the One Creator – the Source of all existence; all things and all people are encompassed together by the Creator’s complete unity.

2: The Universal Divine Code – of Seven Commandments for the descendants of Noah.

3: The Seven Universal Principles – of morality that emerge from the Seven Commandments.

4: The Anishinaabe “Seven Grandfather Teachings” in Anishinaabe culture – Wisdom, Respect, Humility, Honesty, Truth, Courage and Love.

5: A Profound Alignment of Purpose – of all individuals and societies to engage in acts of benevolence and to strive for just and lasting peace.

6: The Daily Journey – to rectify the deviations from these ways that exist on the personal level and in the world around us.

7: The Long-awaited Arrival of the Messianic Era – which is known in the Anishinaabe tradition as the Eighth Fire Era.

As written, the Jewish POV seems to be the Ojibway individuals were accepting the truth of their teachings, but not the reverse.

https://asknoah.org/video/ojibwa-proclamation-with-rabbis

[Calm]

Quote

 when such Jewish organizations are willing to acknowledge the Ojibwe as having come from the same origins as they did.

Meaning according to the Proclamation, they were both created by God. 

The Church is constantly declaring we are all created by God. I don’t think that is what he really wants. 

Edited May 24 by Calm

[Calm]

1 hour ago, latterdaytemplar said:

I found the whole thing interesting and thought that I would share it here

It would have been cool if how Chief Ogichidaag interpreted the gathering is how it was presented publicly. My guess is something was said that led him to believe they were agreeing to the origins teachings as reality, when perhaps they were agreeing they were of value as teachings of the Creator or maybe even were accepting of the teachings as a historical possibility.

If he were to present it as our origins are as stated in the Book of Mormon, I highly doubt he would get agreement.

I also wonder what the differences are between the Book of Mormon story and the native creation origins myths are.

[Calm]

I assume you watched the video, templar?  Did he give any references for learning about his people’s creation stories that paralllel ours?  I am watching a video that has a flood myth as the creation story.  Besides there being fighting between brothers at the beginning, the only shared is the destruction of humanity in a flood.

https://exhibits.library.utoronto.ca/items/show/2505

here is a collection of myths I haven’t read yet, but skimmed of the less realistic myth type. 

http://www.native-languages.org/chippewa-legends.htm

Looks like what would be closer would be their more historical tales. 
 

Templar, if he gives some names of individuals in these histories, please share so perhaps I can find info online. 

Edited May 24 by Calm

[Calm]

I can see why the Heartlanders are pushing it.

Quote

The ancestors of the Ojibwe lived throughout the northeastern part of North America and along the Atlantic Coast. Due to a combination of prophecies and tribal warfare, around 1,500 years ago the Ojibwe people left their homes along the ocean and began a slow migration westward that lasted for many centuries.

Ojibwe oral history and archaeological records provide evidence that the Ojibwe moved slowly in small groups following the Great Lakes westward. By the time the French arrived in the Great Lakes area in the early 1600s, the Ojibwe were well established at Sault Ste. Marie and the surrounding area. An Ojibwe prophecy that urged them to move west to "the land where food grows on water" was a clear reference to wild rice and served as a major incentive to migrate westward. Eventually some bands made their homes in the northern area of present-day Minnesota.

 

https://www.mnhs.org/fortsnelling/learn/native-americans/ojibwe-people

Edited May 24 by Calm

[CV75]

1 hour ago, latterdaytemplar said:

Chief Midegah Ogichidaa of the Red Bear Pembina Chippewa Indians was recently featured in a YouTube video posted by Book of Mormon Heartland entitled "Question to the Church - Chief Midegah of the Ojibwe", wherein he testifies of the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ and states that many of the traditions restored in the Church (and found even in the Church's temple ceremonies) have also been preserved in the Ojibwe culture and (sweat) lodges (including, as he claims, the same tokens and signs).

He details how he (not alone, but with all of the elders who run the lodges in his tribe) recently presented their tribal origins and beliefs to the top rabbis of the Jewish Learning Institute, the National Committee for the Furtherance of Jewish Education, the Rabbinical Councils, and the Yeshiva from Jerusalem; and, after hearing the oral traditions of the Ojibwe, officials from each of these Jewish organizations, together with the Ojibwe elders, signed a joint proclamation stating that the Jewish and the Ojibwe are one and the same. This event was also detailed in a Jewish publication called Anash Magazine (Issue 03, Vayeitzei 5784).

His question to the Church is why the Church has not made any formal declaration stating the same about such Anishinaabe peoples as the Ojibwe being descendants of the Lamanites as described in the Book of Mormon when such Jewish organizations are willing to acknowledge the Ojibwe as having come from the same origins as they did.

It also looks like Book of Mormon Heartland is helping to sponsor a "Book of Mormon / Ojibwe Conference" in September.

I found the whole thing interesting and thought that I would share it here.

What exactly is his question (please transcribe it)?

The way it is represented in the OP is an interesting approach to setting up an event to declare mutual solidarity and fidelity to her basic precepts. It seems like the 770 event was initiated by Rabbi Schulman. Is Midegah Ogichidaa asking that the Church approach him (and has there been a long-standing personal relationship between him and Church representatives such as he enjoys with the Rabbi)?

I can see how the Church and Unite the World are both organizations and how the Restoration and Chabad-Lubavitch Hasidic movements are both movements, and how the Sheva Mitzvos B’nei Noach aligns with the Seven Grandfather Principles, but what is the equivalent "principle" for the Church? The Jewish and Anishinaabe can be considered peoples, but it will take a lot more before the Church's concept of a "covenant people" becomes similarly accepted as peoplehood in the same way (usually involving geography, governance, political, social, religious agenda, etc. -- as the New Jerusalem or the "other Zion" would).

https://anash.org/native-american-chief-comes-to-770-to-declare-hashem-is-one/

 

[Doctor Steuss]

Feels very Ethan Smith-ish.

[california boy]

Of course the most obvious thing to do with someone claiming their people came from Jewish roots would be to do a DNA test. Somehow I don’t think anyone who wants to believe this story would agree to do that.  

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Meaning according to the Proclamation, they were both created by God. 

The Church is constantly declaring we are all created by God. I don’t think that is what he really wants. 

Many many religions, if not ALL attest to that.   In fact it might be said about any religion that what it outlined is it's view of "God" or a path to better one's alignment with the "Universe" and/or some Higher Force.

So as always, the problem becomes semantics.

I think it will be a while  before we see Native American garb in the temple,  but Man, would that be cool!

Think of the changes it would take in semantics to accomplish that!

I can't even read the magazine intelligently because the terms are literally in a foreign language.   Maybe some Hebrew scholars hereabouts could translate some of the terms.

But it is a fascinating topic!

[mfbukowski]

26 minutes ago, california boy said:

Of course the most obvious thing to do with someone claiming their people came from Jewish roots would be to do a DNA test. Somehow I don’t think anyone who wants to believe this story would agree to do that.  

Sigh.  

The usual science/ religion category mistake.

All humans have hearts.   Does that help?  What about genealogy?   Have you heard of it?

What the bleep does DNA have to do with religious belief?

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

What exactly is his question (please transcribe it)?

The way it is represented in the OP is an interesting approach to setting up an event to declare mutual solidarity and fidelity to her basic precepts. It seems like the 770 event was initiated by Rabbi Schulman. Is Midegah Ogichidaa asking that the Church approach him (and has there been a long-standing personal relationship between him and Church representatives such as he enjoys with the Rabbi)?

I can see how the Church and Unite the World are both organizations and how the Restoration and Chabad-Lubavitch Hasidic movements are both movements, and how the Sheva Mitzvos B’nei Noach aligns with the Seven Grandfather Principles, but what is the equivalent "principle" for the Church? The Jewish and Anishinaabe can be considered peoples, but it will take a lot more before the Church's concept of a "covenant people" becomes similarly accepted as peoplehood in the same way (usually involving geography, governance, political, social, religious agenda, etc. -- as the New Jerusalem or the "other Zion" would).

https://anash.org/native-american-chief-comes-to-770-to-declare-hashem-is-one/

 

OK, confess!

How many cuts and pastes for correct spelling did it take to write that?

 

[mfbukowski]

@Doctor Steuss

Brilliant post and brilliant quotes!  Thanks!

Quote

 

Ex Nihilo Nihil Fit

"You don't have to be religious to have a soul; everybody has one. You don't have to be religious to perfect your soul; I have found saintliness in avowed atheists." - Rabbi Harold Kushner

"A good man, is a good man, whether in this church, or out of it." - Brigham Young

"It does not prove that a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine" - Joseph Smith

"When we cast out the gospel net to bring in every soul, what we get back is a big bowl of cereal, i.e. a bunch of fruits, nuts, and flakes. Personally, I believe that the Church of Christ can sustain us all except perhaps the nuts that want to dispose of the flakes." – David Bokovoy

 

 

[CV75]

18 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

OK, confess!

How many cuts and pastes for correct spelling did it take to write that?

 

Sounds like an Irving Berlin lyric!  Or should I say, "Oivin Boy-lin"? Maybe N'godwaaswi or Niizhwaaswi -- that's 6 or 7 in Ojibwe!

[Calm]

12 hours ago, california boy said:

Of course the most obvious thing to do with someone claiming their people came from Jewish roots would be to do a DNA test. Somehow I don’t think anyone who wants to believe this story would agree to do that.  

Depends on what percentage of their ancestry surely they are claiming, also how many they test, and how far back they are claiming the relationship and what is tested.  The mtdna line (since Jews trace ethnicity through the mother) would likely be the best since they were talking thousands of years (I assume the y dna testing can provide the same depth of info), but all it takes is for the maternal line or paternal to get interrupted to lose a connection.

https://www.crigenetics.com/blog/how-many-generations-can-a-dna-test-trace-my-ancestry

Also depends on who is doing the testing.

Quote

Even though genetic ancestry tests deliver precise percentages about our heritage, the reports are best thought of estimates, based on imperfect data.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/1/28/18194560/ancestry-dna-23-me-myheritage-science-explainer

Edited May 25 by Calm

[The Nehor]

I trust the Heartland people. By that I mean I trust they are doing their usual exaggerating  and spinning. Also the Jewish article doesn’t match what is said in the OP’s summary of events.

I am doubtful about all of this.

[latterdaytemplar]

I was able to get most of the Proclamation's text from a video:

Quote

 

A Joint Proclamation

Today, NOV 9, 2023

25 Cheshvan 5784, we meet to acknowledge understandings shared by

the Midew Elders, Doodeman Ogemas and Ogichidaag

of the Anishinaabe Ojibway People,

and the Sages of the Jewish People, and to proclaim

SECTION 1: ACKNOWLEDGING THE ONE CREATOR

We begin by recognizing the One Creator of the world and all of humanity. In our shared belief, this Creator is the Source of all existence, and all things and all people are encompassed together by the Creator's complete unity.

SECTION 2: THE UNIVERSAL DIVINE CODE

We acknowledge that the Creator Established a path of virtuous living for all of humanity from the time that the first human being was created. When the Great Flood ended, the Creator ordained it again as the Seven Noahide Commandments. The Creator incorporated this universal divine code into the eternal Torah teachings that He imparted to the Jewish People through Moses at Mount Sinai, and that is the sacred source for its observance from that time on.

SECTION 3: THE SEVEN UNIVERSAL PRINCIPLES

There are Seven Universal Principles of morality that emerge from the Seven Commandments. These principles provide an objective moral compass for all individuals and nations to embrace as a shared foundation for righteous living:

• To recognize the Higher Power
• To have respect for the Higher Power, all human life, permissible family relationships and marriages, other people's property and monetary rights, and all living creatures
• To respect and uphold a righteous system of justice

The Creator entrusted the followers of the Jewish faith with the solemn duty to disseminate the Torah's Seven Universal Principles to all of humanity. In this endeavor, they mirror the noble mission undertaken by their forebear, Abraham, who illuminated the path for people to acknowledge, thank, and call upon the Creator. It is with a spirit of kindness and unity that the Anishinaabe traditional community embraces the profound verity of the Torah, and its message for the people of the nations to settle the world in peaceful and just coexistence.

SECTION 4: THE ANISHINAABE "SEVEN GRANDFATHER TEACHINGS"

We wholeheartedly acknowledge, honor, and support the venerable tradition of the "Seven Grandfather Teachings" that have been deeply ingrained in the Anishinaabe culture for at least 2,500 years, passed down through their documented heritage as originating from the time of the creation of humankind and renewed after the Great Flood. These teachings impart timeless wisdom, urging individuals to nurture and embody the virtues of Wisdom, Respect, Humility, Honesty, Truth, Courage, and Love, with the goal to live a good life in harmony with the Creator's intentions.

SECTION 5: A PROFOUND ALIGNMENT OF PURPOSE

We acknowledge a profound alignment between the Seven Grandfather Teachings and the Torah's Seven Universal Principles, both of which underscore the fundamental duty of all individuals and societies to engage in acts of benevolence and to strive for just and lasting peace. Moreover, these teachings emphasize the paramount importance of parents instilling such values in the hearts of their progeny. This mandate encompasses the act of extending charity, and supporting judicious stewardship of resources vital to sustaining life on Earth.

SECTION 6: THE DAILY JOURNEY

They ways of the Seven Grandfather Teachings and Seven Universal Principles are intended to be strived for daily. With deep sincerity, we beseech all individuals, communities, tribes, and nations to unite with us in this noble endeavor to rectify the deviations from these ways that exist on a personal level and in the world around us.

SECTION 7: THE LONG AWAITED ARRIVAL OF THE MESSIANIC ERA

We solemnly declare that through diligent adherence to the principles and teachings outlined above, humanity will increasingly radiate the divine likeness in which they are fashioned, thus expediting the arrival of the Messianic Era—a time characterized by enduring harmony, kindness, and unification. The dawn of this era is upon us, and it is imperative that the knowledge of this transformation be disseminated to all, so that they may gain enlightenment and understanding. This vision of unity and harmony is not only a hope but a shared responsibility for all of humanity.

 

Unfortunately, the video cuts off here. This is the end of the document's body of text, but there is something written in the center of the footer just above the signatures that I cannot make out in the photo and that did not make it into the video.

There does not seem to be any statement herein that specifies or implies that the Anishinaabe are of Israelite descent. However, the document clearly states that the Jewish people acknowledge that the Anishinaabe's heritage as tracing back to the Great Flood (a version of which story the Anishinaabe also have); this might mean that the Jewish people now recognize the Anishinaabe as "People of the Book" (a title extended to Jews, Muslims, and some Christian denominations).

Edited May 25 by latterdaytemplar

[latterdaytemplar]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

I assume you watched the video, templar?  Did he give any references for learning about his people’s creation stories that paralllel ours?

I watched the video, but it seems that the whole interview is not shown. Book of Mormon Heartland may be making it into sections due to how long they are. Or this might just be a teaser for what kind of content can be expected at the September Conference. But, no, the Creation story is not touched on in the video.

I saw the link that you shared of the Anishinaabe creation story; it does have quite a few parallels to that recorded in the Old Testament. Thank you for sharing it.

[Calm]

34 minutes ago, latterdaytemplar said:

I watched the video, but it seems that the whole interview is not shown. Book of Mormon Heartland may be making it into sections due to how long they are. Or this might just be a teaser for what kind of content can be expected at the September Conference. But, no, the Creation story is not touched on in the video.

I saw the link that you shared of the Anishinaabe creation story; it does have quite a few parallels to that recorded in the Old Testament. Thank you for sharing it.

Interesting subject…and I love creation myths of all types. 
 

“does have quite a few parallels to that recorded in the Old Testament. Thank you for sharing it.”

Besides the fighting and a flood, I am not seeing parallels. The animals survive by their own ability for the most part, it is a log and not a boat that saves one man only.   I suppose there is an animal who brings back a sign of land, but the conditions are dramatically different in that the muskrat brinks back a pawfull of dirt that then grows to an island on a turtle’s back. Not at all like the birds bringing back a twig and then not returning. 

Edited May 25 by Calm

[webbles]

4 hours ago, california boy said:

Of course the most obvious thing to do with someone claiming their people came from Jewish roots would be to do a DNA test. Somehow I don’t think anyone who wants to believe this story would agree to do that.  

They could be like the Beta Israel who are considered Jewish but with very little genetic proof.  Per https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_Israel

Quote

A 2012 study by Ostrer et al. concluded that the Ethiopian Jewish community was founded about 2,000 years ago probably by only a relatively small number of Jews from elsewhere with local people joining to the community, causing Beta Israel to become genetically distant from other Jewish groups.

 

[mfbukowski]

4 hours ago, CV75 said:

Sounds like an Irving Berlin lyric!  Or should I say, "Oivin Boy-lin"? Maybe N'godwaaswi or Niizhwaaswi -- that's 6 or 7 in Ojibwe!

I got it!  They count syllables !

[The Nehor]

The seven Laws of Noah:

Not to worship idols.
Not to curse God.
Not to commit murder.
Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.
Not to steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.
To establish courts of justice.

The Seven Grandfather Teachings:

Love
Respect
Bravery
Truth
Honesty
Humility
Wisdom.

Yeah, not seeing the connection here at all. The idea that this shows some ancient connection to what Noah allegedly taught is just silly.

[Zosimus]

15 hours ago, latterdaytemplar said:

His question to the Church is why the Church has not made any formal declaration stating the same about such Anishinaabe peoples as the Ojibwe being descendants of the Lamanites as described in the Book of Mormon when such Jewish organizations are willing to acknowledge the Ojibwe as having come from the same origins as they did.

His family has been in the church since the 1830s, increasing the likelihood that he interprets things in a way that other native Americans

I don't know enough about his claims to say anything about it, but I have some doubts. First of all, he mentions scrolls. What could those possibly be? If they are written in any script/language that he or other chiefs might be able to read then they wouldn't be ancient