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Why does jesus confirm the universal flood myth?


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37 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Once again you revel in the pathetic fallacy:  A Church does not have opinions, people do.  Moreover, you give no credence to the opinions of the Brethren, and certainly do not regard them as infallible, so what are you trying to say?  Why are you being coy?

Here you are playing the phony infallible game, instead of being straightforward.  As I have said many times to you:  The Brethren are not biblical scholars and do not read Hebrew or Greek.  None have training in theology.

Why would you expect them to be authoritative on these matters?  Isn't it true that you do not regard them as authoritative?

Incorrect.  I view them as authoritative with respect to matters of the church

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11 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

 

I agree, but if the savior of the world refers to him as a literal person how exactly are we to view Noah as a fictional character?

Have you heard of parables?

Were you aware that Jesus used them all the time- in fact virtually ALL his teachings are found in parables.

For a reason.

They give show us universal experiences instead of restricting the lesson to one individual.

You are talking about one person- as a parable, the story has universal application.   Parables are therefore superior to historic evidence when teaching religous principles.

Edited by mfbukowski
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Just now, mfbukowski said:

Have you heard of parables?

Were you aware that Jesus used them all the time- in fact virtually ALL his teachings are found in parables.

For a reason.

They give show us universal experiences instead of restricting the lesson to one individual.

You are talking about one person- as a parable, the story has universal application.

Of course I have.  Are you suggesting Jesus wasn't quoting Isaiah but was instead using a parable?

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6 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

seemingly everyone in this thread except you

It doesn't matter if it's a myth- but it is more useful if it is

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But it seems that Jesus did in fact believe in a universal flood...but to paraphrase Clinton...it depends on what the meaning of "all" is

 

Quote

LUKE 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

 

Edited by Fair Dinkum
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24 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

No I don't believe there ever was a flood, I also view Noah as a fictional mythical charactor.  But seeing Christ refer to him as a real person was perplexing.

Ok. Either Christ disagrees with you or there is some other explanation.  If you are fully committed to the "Christ definitely agrees with me" idea, and if you care enough about the topic to find a way through the perplexing, then you should focus on finding other explanations.

From my perspective, you can believe whatever you want about it and it's no big deal, unless you 1) happen to be wrong and 2) decide that 'there was no flood and Noah is definitely a mythical character" is a hill worth dying on. 

That combination will obviously not end well.

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27 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

No I don't believe there ever was a flood, I also view Noah as a fictional mythical charactor.  But seeing Christ refer to him as a real person was perplexing.

That some of what the scriptures relate about Noah may not be accurate doesn't mean that there wasn't a prophet named Noah.

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One scholar in his discussion of the flood and the Tower of Babel seems to argue for a local flood and a local confusion of languages.  

"The northern boundary is marked by the peoples around the Black Sea (Gen 10:2; Ezek 38:6). The southern boundary is marked by peoples living in the extreme south of the Arabian peninsula (Gen 10:7: cf. Matt 12:42). The eastern boundary is marked by Elam (Gen 10:22). The western boundary is at Tarshish (Gen 10:4), but its location is not certain. Although elsewhere in Scripture Tarshish may refer to Tartessos in Spain, in Gen 10 it probably refers to a location c. latitude ten degrees east, perhaps Sardinia, Tunis, or Carthage. "All the earth" in Gen 11:1 is then a circle or ellipse around 2400 miles in width and 1200 in height.53 Everyone in the ancient Near East understood this circular area to be the entire extent of the earth and that this earth was surrounded by a great ocean.54"

https://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted_hildebrandt/otesources/01-genesis/text/articles-books/seely_babel_wtj.pdf

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10 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

In 3 Nephi 22:9 we read of Jesus speaking to the surviving populations in the America's upon His appearance in America.  While most of his comments are merely a duplication of his ministry in the Holy Land one bizarre remark stands out in that it confirms the reality of the Universal Flood Myth.

Why does Jesus mislead His Nephite audience by propagating the flood myth? 

God the Father himself testified that the floods would unavoidably come and that they would destroy all flesh that then existed on the face of the earth. Your problem is that you don’t believe God is a God of mighty miracles for whom flooding the earth would be no more difficult than simultaneously raising billions from death to immortality and salvation.

33 And unto thy brethren have I said, and also given commandment, that they should love one another, and that they should choose me, their Father; but behold, they are without affection, and they hate their own blood;
34 And the fire of mine indignation is kindled against them; and in my hot displeasure will I send in the floods upon them, for my fierce anger is kindled against them. (Moses 7)

42 And Enoch also saw Noah, and his family; that the posterity of all the sons of Noah should be saved with a temporal salvation;
43 Wherefore Enoch saw that Noah built an ark; and that the Lord smiled upon it, and held it in his own hand; but upon the residue of the wicked the floods came and swallowed them up. (Moses 7)

50 And it came to pass that Enoch continued his cry unto the Lord, saying: I ask thee, O Lord, in the name of thine Only Begotten, even Jesus Christ, that thou wilt have mercy upon Noah and his seed, that the earth might never more be covered by the floods.
51 And the Lord could not withhold; and he covenanted with Enoch, and sware unto him with an oath, that he would stay the floods; that he would call upon the children of Noah; (Moses 7)

Edited by teddyaware
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9 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

God the Father himself testified that the floods would unavoidably come and that they would destroy all flesh that then existed on the face of the earth. Your problem is that you don’t believe God is a God of mighty miracles for whom flooding the earth would be no more difficult than simultaneously raising billions from death into immortality and salvation.

33 And unto thy brethren have I said, and also given commandment, that they should love one another, and that they should choose me, their Father; but behold, they are without affection, and they hate their own blood;
34 And the fire of mine indignation is kindled against them; and in my hot displeasure will I send in the floods upon them, for my fierce anger is kindled against them.

The evidence against a universal flood that killed all life with the exception of that on Noah’s Ark is overwhelming and indisputable to anyone willing to examine the evidence. To maintain a faith contrary to this evidence would be just plain conscience ignorance.

Edited by Fair Dinkum
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5 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

No I don't believe there ever was a flood, I also view Noah as a fictional mythical charactor.  But seeing Christ refer to him as a real person was perplexing.

It shouldn't be.  Noah/Gabriel was real.  Joseph received keys from him, just as he saw Father Adam.  If we can believe Moroni or John the Baptist or Peter were real then Moses, Noah, and Adam are no more challenging.

5 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

But it seems that Jesus did in fact believe in a universal flood

And I'll take his word over every scientist that ever lived.

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18 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

The evidence against a universal flood that killed all life with the exception of that on Noah’s Ark is overwhelming and indisputable to anyone willing to examine the evidence. To maintain a faith contrary to this evidence would be just plain conscience ignorance.

A large portion of the most important things I have personally experienced would be contradicted by similar contrary evidence. I strongly suspect that personal experiences with the power and reality of God are designed to make us a bit wary of 'overwhelming and indisputable' evidence as a general category.

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5 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Luke 2:1

Do you believe Caesar was taxing the inhabitants of South America?  The Japanese Archipelago?  The aborigines in what is today Australia?

Is "all the world" necessarily to be literally and unequivocally construed?

In order for the flood to have any meaning it had to perform the baptismal purpose of cleansing the earth.

Even if it didn't cover the globe at the very least it had to cover all inhabited land.

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3 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

A large portion of the most important things I have personally experienced would be contradicted by similar contrary evidence. I strongly suspect that personal experiences with the power and reality of God are designed to make us a bit wary of 'overwhelming and indisputable' evidence as a general category.

Read this and then tell me you still believe in a universal flood. https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V40N03_95.pdf

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1 minute ago, JLHPROF said:

In order for the flood to have any meaning it had to perform the baptismal purpose of cleansing the earth.

I question that.

1 minute ago, JLHPROF said:

Even if it didn't cover the globe at the very least it had to cover all inhabited land.

Seems more eisegetical than exegetical.

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12 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Read this and then tell me you still believe in a universal flood.

Mate, I'm fully agnostic on the issue of a global flood. But I already believe things -- many things! -- that you don't because of 'evidence', and there's nothing I can read that will change my mind because I've experienced these things for myself, repeatedly and conclusively. I therefore cannot help you.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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There is evidence that sea levels rose about 400 feet around 12000 years ago. What might happen to any civilizations  living at that time ? ( Gobekli Tepe anyone ) 

There is also evidence of vast flooding , marine uplifts , massive volcanic eruptions etc. 

Then there are the fossils , about 80% are marine and , of the rest, nearly all show rapid burial by mudflows. There are bone piles of numerous types of animals all jumbled together.

 One can argue dates and times but don't say there is NO evidence of flooding on a grand scale ever in earth's history. 

Love him or not, Kurt Wise has some interesting views on the subject. 

Lots of folks think Moses, Abraham, Jesus, Mohammed , David and most all the Biblical figures were mythological not " real " so Fair Dinkum is not alone in his skeptical views. 

Just one example of many: World's Largest Dinosaur Graveyard Linked to Mass Death | Live Science

 

Edited by strappinglad
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