Poll: Majority Of Utah Mormons Want Lds Church To Leave The Boy Scouts

[jkwilliams]

I just hope that whatever they come up with doesn't follow the trend in recent years for everything to turn into one long sacrament meeting. 

[HappyJackWagon]

I just hope that whatever they come up with doesn't follow the trend in recent years for everything to turn into one long sacrament meeting. 

Yes. If they get out of BSA the church needs to create the new incarnation as an "activity arm" and not an extension of seminary or missionary preparation. Ahab said it well

 

If the Church bails on the BSA I hope they/we will still organize camping out and hiking and all of the other good outdoor activities that I associate with the BSA. And learning/teaching how to tie all kinds of knots would would be good too. And service projects. Lots of good service projects. The best parts of the BSA programs even though it wouldn't be the BSA, officially.

Things like uniforms and merit badges and fees charged by the BSA for being part of their organization are not really necessary, or cool. I still think it's funny to see grown adults wearing the uniforms and the badges. We really don't need no BSA badges.

 

They also need to recognize that not every boy is interested in those things. Many are but some aren't and they've been left behind for quite some time so this would be an opportunity to fix that problem.

[Rain]

It may also help those boys who really don't like camping, since it is required for rank advancement. I love that my sons have been able to go on campouts. I think it is a beneficial thing to most boys, but if you really don't like it you are stuck in scouting. There just is no alternative - you go camping or you don't advance for at least two of the ranks.

[ERayR]

$200 for scout camp?? Where do I sign up?

 

Out here, scout camp is north of $400 for the week per boy.

 

All the more reason to get out.

[Bob Crockett]

Hopefully, what Utah denizens think about Scouting won't drive the way the Church makes a decision.  Scouting here in California is a valuable way for the young scouts to interact with merit badge advisors, camp counselors and other scouting executives from other faiths and walks of life.  The BSA puts a lot of effort into fundraising for the inner city kids to help them with lifestyle choices, and sometimes LDS members get involved in that effort. 

 

It is distressing how many LDS units let scouting fall into desuetude, without going through the necessary scouting motions, but the non-member units help prop them up.  I'm not all that a great fan of the adult component of scouting, but I've been called to scouting positions for most of my adult church service life.  

Edited August 18, 2015 by Bob Crockett

[ERayR]

Stuff like this is good for ALL kids..outdoors and learning new things.  Hope they can now have extra dollar and curriculum for the girls too.  That being said, I think in the future..merit badges will include "seer stone" awards. 

 

In this part of the world we have some really good girls camps.  Every bit as good as scout camp.

[hagoth7]

...Funny thing is, reading this thread has me seeing benefits in dropping it. I am not a mom who does her son's scout stuff. I am a mom who often tells her son the badge doesn't matter to me except where it helps you learn....

Edited August 18, 2015 by hagoth7

[Ahab]

They also need to recognize that not every boy is interested in those things. Many are but some aren't and they've been left behind for quite some time so this would be an opportunity to fix that problem.

Yes, good point, the YM or even YW programs don't need to be focused on outdoor activities, or indoor activities, exclusively. Both would be good. Computer classes would be good, too, getting into both software and hardware for fun and for career progression. All kinds of indoor and outdoor activities, as long as it includes a lot of activity.

[jbarm]

As someone who comes from a long family tradition of Scouting, who earned my Eagle at age 13  and who has been a Scout leader on and off for many years, I am OK with the Church leaving Scouting.

 

In my view Scouting works best for Cubs and boys up to age 13 and then active participation drops off dramatically.  Once most (not all) boys hit puberty and age 14 their interest in Scouting diminishes greatly.  Why?  Because Scouting is not cool and they have other cool things to do.  All you have to do is look at general Scouting participation rate declines nationwide for many years to see the impact of this reality.

 

Earning merit badges and wearing uniforms have little appeal and are not relevant to this older group.   There are occasionally wards that make Scouting work past this age, but they are the exception and not the rule.

 

And yes, high adventure (sans uniforms and awards) is still appealing to older boys, but you don't need a formal scout organization to do high adventure camping.

 

Also, you do see a surge in activity in Scouting when boys approach the age where they can get a drivers license (conditional on having an Eagle) or age 18 (end of eligibility to get Eagle).  This is just a box checking exercise though.

 

Scouting has limped along like this for many years.  The gay rights issue just gave the Church the final opportunity to separate itself from a Scouting program that has had little utility for older boys for many years.

 

As a side note: anyone who thinks that 'embracing diversity' will solve the Boy Scouts growth problems is just engaging in wishful thinking, if the Girl Scouts are a reasonable comparison. Girl Scout participation has dropped precipitously since their embrace of the gay rights agenda 20 years ago.

[Sleeper Cell]

I think divorcing ourselves from a program that is largely worthwhile (despite a politically policy change that has almost no effect on the ground in most districts) and attempting to replace it with home grown programs will be disastrous for our youth programs in the short term, and bad for them in the long term.

 

Some of the things we will miss (and in LDS troops sometimes miss anyway):

 

Exposure to other faiths

Exposure to other cultures

Use of facilities and grounds held by the BSA

Partnerships with other youth leaders 

100 year old traditions of Honor, Faith, Duty to God, Duty to Country

 

to name a few.  

 

By leaving we will miss the BSA’s 100 year old tradition of Honor?  Presumably this tradition of honor is embodied in the scout oath, including the part about keeping oneself “morally straight.” But unless there is agreement on what constitutes the minimal standards of morality, an oath to be moral becomes meaningless.  

 

Troop A has a gay scoutmaster who is legally married to his gay spouse. Troop B refuses to allow gay scoutmasters -- even those married to their gay spouses -- because their leaders and sponsoring institution believe that homosexual relations are fundamentally immoral.  On the other hand, the leaders of Troop A believe that such discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is immoral.  How can both groups say they uphold the same scout oath when they hold fundamentally contradictory views on what it means?  

 

Unfortunately BSA is abandoning its “100 year old tradition of honor.”  Not “merely” by allowing what was traditionally considered to be immoral,  but by essentially turning the scout oath into a matter of “it all depends on what the definition of ’is’ is.”  

[Scott Lloyd]

$200 for scout camp?? Where do I sign up?

 

Out here, scout camp is north of $400 for the week per boy.

I think that's outrageous.

 

Years ago, the Church eliminated building funds, budget assessments, welfare payments, etc. with the idea that tithing and fast offering should be able to cover everything. The idea was that full activity in the Church should not be monetarily burdensome or prohibitive.

 

The above flies in the face of that idea.

[Ahab]

I think that's outrageous.

Years ago, the Church eliminated building funds, budget assessments, welfare payments, etc. with the idea that tithing and fast offering should be able to cover everything. The idea was that full activity in the Church should not be monetarily burdensome or prohibitive.

The above flies in the face of that idea.

And yet Friends of Scouting representatives and members of the bishopric are very active in trying to raise the funds from the ward to cover all of the BSA costs.

Costs over and above what it would cost for the YM to do the same kinds of things not BSA connected.

I think many Church leaders are just overly sentimental about the BSA and that is just hindering them from seeing that it is TIME that we go our own way from the BSA.

[Scott Lloyd]

And yet Friends of Scouting representatives and members of the bishopric are very active in trying to raise the funds from the ward to cover all of the BSA costs.

Costs over and above what it would cost for the YM to do the same kinds of things not BSA connected.

I think many Church leaders are just overly sentimental about the BSA and that is just hindering them from seeing that it is TIME that we go our own way from the BSA.

Is this the birth of a bumper-sticker slogan?

[Ahab]

Is this the birth of a bumper-sticker slogan?

Maybe. What have you come up with?

Keep it short and sweet, please. Thank you.

[toon]

I hated the whole uniform as it simply was not attractive.  I think one can enjoy camping in blue jeans and a t-shirt.  

 

I'll probably get in trouble for saying this, but I always thought the uniform was the gayest thing about scouting. 

[toon]

$200 for scout camp?? Where do I sign up?

 

Out here, scout camp is north of $400 for the week per boy.

 

I hated scout camp as a youth and as a youth leader.  Too regimented, and completely unnecessary.  Week long "high adventure" trips were so much more fun, they built better camaraderie and relationship, we learned more, and we challenged ourselves more.  They take a little more planning, as everything is not handed to you, but they're also much less expensive.  And the planning is something that you have the kids do with supervision.

[jkwilliams]

I have fond memories of Scouting both as a boy and as a leader. It makes me very sad to think that the church would sever its ties with the BSA. I honestly don't understand all the fuss.

[jkwilliams]

Maybe. What have you come up with?

Keep it short and sweet, please. Thank you.

 

 

BSA: Too gay for us!

[Ahab]

BSA: Too gay for us!

That could work!

I'm thinking more like:

All of the A without the BS.

Still seems kinda long though.

[Scott Lloyd]

Maybe. What have you come up with?

Keep it short and sweet, please. Thank you.

You've already nailed it:

"Let's go our own way from the BSA."

[Jeanne]

In this part of the world we have some really good girls camps.  Every bit as good as scout camp.

Well that is good news..are they church oriented or costs a lot?  Just wondering.

[jcake]

We need to remember that having congenital maladies and birth defects is not a matter of choice and that Church leaders acknowledge that. Won't you be glad when you get to the other side and can ask Heavenly Father about His consistent pattern of creating a certain percentage of the population with congenital abnormalities. Maybe you can ask Him then why He couldn't get it right and rail against Him about how unfair His laws and commandments are.

I don't recall questioning God with regard to this. I've always thought it was quite alright for those with congenital abnormalities, whatever they may be, to adapt to their circumstances to make their lives as livable and fullfilling as possible.  Though, I do confess some frustration with those who may have been born with less capacity for kindness and compassion.  I am trying to overcome this flaw.

[The Nehor]

I'll probably get in trouble for saying this, but I always thought the uniform was the gayest thing about scouting.

Finally, someone saying what so many think.

[Calm]

Except for Beaver Scouts, I prefer the Canadian ones:

http://www.scouts.ca/uniform/uniform.html

Our ward just did shirts with jeans iirc. The shirts lasted forever among the adults so got past on with calling many times.

Edited August 19, 2015 by calmoriah

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

You've already nailed it:

 

Careful Scott some people might think this should be the slogan. Ha.