Ahab Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Careful Scott some people might think this should be the slogan. Ha.And the problem with that would be... What???
KevinG Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Some of us really rock the uniform. I'm just sayin'
Ahab Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Some of us really rock the uniform. I'm just sayin'It's nice that you think so, but still, really, it's not what a real man approves of.And yes I am talking about me.
daz2 Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 I am kind of surprised people are expressing an opinion on what the Church should do. That should be up to the Brethren, as inspired by God. Oh wait. This is the internet. The only kinds of opinions that are heretical are those that are "liberal", and the opinions here, advising the Brethren what to do, are "conservative"
Ahab Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 I am kind of surprised people are expressing an opinion on what the Church should do. That should be up to the Brethren, as inspired by God. Oh wait. This is the internet. The only kinds of opinions that are heretical are those that are "liberal", and the opinions here, advising the Brethren what to do, are "conservative"It's just an extension of the 'What would Jesus do?' paradigm. Next we could tackle the question of 'What should YOU do?' 2
Stone holm Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 What I find fascinating about this is that I would bet, though I confess to not having read the entire thread, that a person who advocated ditching Scouts on this thread would not be called out on it, nor would they have their faith questioned, or be accused of trying to say they more than God's appointed leaders. They would certainly not be excommunicated. But, if they advocated for women to have the Priesthood, or for more equality in leadership...then they would be called out.
Thinking Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 If the LDS Church is forced to appoint a gay man to be a scout leader, then I think it should break from the scouts. Leaving the scouts because other groups can choose a gay leader flies in the face of all the LGBT support propaganda that the LDS Church has released recently. 1
The Nehor Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 If the LDS Church is forced to appoint a gay man to be a scout leader, then I think it should break from the scouts. Leaving the scouts because other groups can choose a gay leader flies in the face of all the LGBT support propaganda that the LDS Church has released recently. Nope, it could also just be a withdrawal for fear of being drawn into controversy as the issue continues to develop, disgust at their strained attempt to please everyone, annoyance at being left out of the discussion, or even just the realization that we have the BSA stuck over a barrel with their financial dependency on us and that severing the relationship will be better for both parties as they can go where they will. I am kind of surprised people are expressing an opinion on what the Church should do. That should be up to the Brethren, as inspired by God. Oh wait. This is the internet. The only kinds of opinions that are heretical are those that are "liberal", and the opinions here, advising the Brethren what to do, are "conservative" I serve God in an advisory capacity so I just know what God is going to tell them to do. 3
The Nehor Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 It's just an extension of the 'What would Jesus do?' paradigm. A paradigm I hate. There is a deep arrogance involved in anyone knowing what Jesus would do in a given situation. Well, unless Jesus tells them directly of course.
Popular Post The Nehor Posted August 20, 2015 Popular Post Posted August 20, 2015 What I find fascinating about this is that I would bet, though I confess to not having read the entire thread, that a person who advocated ditching Scouts on this thread would not be called out on it, nor would they have their faith questioned, or be accused of trying to say they more than God's appointed leaders. They would certainly not be excommunicated. But, if they advocated for women to have the Priesthood, or for more equality in leadership...then they would be called out. I think there is a difference between what amounts to idle speculation on a message board and actively agitating for change in opposition to the Brethren. YMMV 5
hagoth7 Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) I am kind of surprised people are expressing an opinion on what the Church should do. That should be up to the Brethren, as inspired by God. Oh wait. This is the internet. The only kinds of opinions that are heretical are those that are "liberal", and the opinions here, advising the Brethren what to do, are "conservative"? I will get in line behind whatever the brethren decide. That doesn't preclude me publicly offering my opinion about the merit of merit badges. Despite what I happen to think of such things, I would try to be as good a Scoutmaster as I could be if the brethren chose to stay with scouting, and if my local bishop subsequently felt inspired to extend such a call (although, before I would accept such a call, I would be very frank with my bishop about my feelings towards merit badges). My first scoutmaster had a profound and lasting impact on me as a deacon. That is in no way attempting to "[advise] the Brethren what to do". Do you find anything heretical there? Edited August 20, 2015 by hagoth7
Ahab Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 A paradigm I hate. There is a deep arrogance involved in anyone knowing what Jesus would do in a given situation. Well, unless Jesus tells them directly of course.The 'What Would Jesus Do' paradigm I mentioned is more about a person TRYING to do what they think Jesus would do, TRYING to be his disciple, TRYING to do the right thing, even though they may not and often do not really know what Jesus really would do.So it's a noble pursuit even though the result wouldn't necessarily jive with what Jesus really would do.You may still choose to hate the paradigm though if you want to.
Rain Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 A paradigm I hate. There is a deep arrogance involved in anyone knowing what Jesus would do in a given situation. Well, unless Jesus tells them directly of course.I have not liked it either. First, because I am not Jesus so I shouldn't necessarily do what he does. His mission in life is way different than mine. A better question would be, "What would Jesus have me do?"Secondly, if I knew the answer to the question I wouldn't have to ask myself what he would do. It is easy to answer "should I steal this candy bar?" It is not so easy to answer, "what would Jesus do about my brother who is addicted to heroin?" 2
rockpond Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 If the LDS Church is forced to appoint a gay man to be a scout leader, then I think it should break from the scouts. Leaving the scouts because other groups can choose a gay leader flies in the face of all the LGBT support propaganda that the LDS Church has released recently. So true.
jkwilliams Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 If the LDS Church is forced to appoint a gay man to be a scout leader, then I think it should break from the scouts. Leaving the scouts because other groups can choose a gay leader flies in the face of all the LGBT support propaganda that the LDS Church has released recently. Agreed, That's why I was so surprised at the church's statement threatening to leave BSA.
rockpond Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 Here:Nearly two-thirds of “very active” Utah members of the LDS Church believe their church leaders should separate from the Boy Scouts and start a new male youth organization, a UtahPolicy survey shows. Ark steadiers.
Scott Lloyd Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) I think there is a difference between what amounts to idle speculation on a message board and actively agitating for change in opposition to the Brethren. YMMVYes. And we're talking about an opinion poll where somebody actively solicited viewpoints. Another big difference is that the majority of the respondents favor what the Church already seems disposed to do. That's certainly not the case with the priesthood ordination of women or the desinfulization (to coin a term) of homosexual behavior. I doubt those who are complaining about this would be saying anything if the results of the opinion poll had been that the majority wanted the Church to stay with BSA. I perceive sour grapes. Edited August 20, 2015 by Scott Lloyd
Scott Lloyd Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 Ark steadiers. Because a pollster asked their opinion and they responded they are ark steadiers? Sheesh. See what I just posted. 1
HappyJackWagon Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 Ark steadiers. It's already the 20th of August. We know they've been thinking about this for quite some time so it's not like they're starting to discuss this issue for the first time. Should we expect an announcement of some kind in the near future or will they just keep plodding along until they eventually make a decision to get out?
The Nehor Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 Ark steadiers. Nope, I am just admiring the ark while walking alongside and commenting to other fellow travelers on my guess of how the Levites will be directed to steady it. 1
rockpond Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 If the LDS Church is forced to appoint a gay man to be a scout leader, then I think it should break from the scouts. Leaving the scouts because other groups can choose a gay leader flies in the face of all the LGBT support propaganda that the LDS Church has released recently. Agreed, That's why I was so surprised at the church's statement threatening to leave BSA. I think the church will stay with scouts for a number of reasons but this is a big one. The Brethren have been making strides in reconciling with the LGBT population. I don't think that "abandoning the BSA because of gay scoutmasters" is a headline they want connected with the Church right now. What I could see happening, is the Brethren waiting a year or more and then, when all this controversy has settled down, announcing that we are transitioning to a new in-house version of scouting that is more adaptable to all our youth. That way, the focus can be on the new program, rather than on the gay issue.
rockpond Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 Because a pollster asked their opinion and they responded they are ark steadiers? Sheesh. See what I just posted. See my smiley face, Scott. I agree with your post #117.
rockpond Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 It's already the 20th of August. We know they've been thinking about this for quite some time so it's not like they're starting to discuss this issue for the first time. Should we expect an announcement of some kind in the near future or will they just keep plodding along until they eventually make a decision to get out? I'm not sure when it will happen but I think the Brethren will need to make some kind of official statement prior to the beginning of the year when we start talking FOS campaign at the stake/ward level.
Scott Lloyd Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 See my smiley face, Scott. I agree with your post #117.We're good then. Here's my return smiley face:
Scott Lloyd Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure when it will happen but I think the Brethren will need to make some kind of official statement prior to the beginning of the year when we start talking FOS campaign at the stake/ward level.This is strictly unsubstantiated third-hand rumor, but I heard something was coming this week, as early as yesterday. And you're right, the local units are in a frustrating limbo. Nobody is going to want to donate to FoS under the current circumstances. It also affects motivation on earning ranks or merit badges. Edited August 20, 2015 by Scott Lloyd
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