John Dehlin Excommunication Discussion

[KevinG]

Ii have no idea what your point is here.

That explains a lot.

[Scott Lloyd]

That is a good place to start... And you forgot the link.

Yes. In my eagerness to post, I forgot. And I've added some further content I also forgot the first time.

 

Dehlin is "skeptical about the existence of Jesus as a historical person" as my links above show.

 

This is not just anti-Mormon or anti-Christianity, it is anti-scholarhship, as most Biblical scholars acknowledge the existence of a man named Jesus, even if the deny His divinity.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[Teancum]

Well I'm not going to root around in Dehlin's websites or Facebook pages or Podcasts to find it for you.

 

But here's a link to a blog that in turn links to the Greg Smith's piece on the Interpreter web site.

 

That should give enough of a lead for you to search further if you so choose.

 

 

In other words you cannot substantiate what you stated and you refer to I assume Gregory Smith's horrible polemic (no link so I am assuming).  

 

Clearly you have spent absolutely NO time looking into this on your own. Rather you rely on your cronies and are as much of a accolade and supporter of them as you may accuse me or other Dehlin supporters of. 

Edited February 20, 2015 by Teancum

[Teancum]

That explains a lot.

 

 

Cute.  No you are not clear and are cryptic.  If you want dialogue explain what you mean instead of being allusive and cutsie.

[The Nehor]

In other words you cannot substantiate what you stated and you refer to I assume Gregory Smith's horrible polemic (no link so I am assuming).  

 

Clearly you have spent absolutely NO time looking into this on your own. Rather you rely on your cronies and are as much of a syncopate of them as you may accuse me or other Dehlin supporters of.

What is a syncopate?

[Calm]

Please demonstrate how Dehlin created a community the PROMOTED DOUBTS in other.  This is  CFR really.

I can't share confidential emails that were reports from people describing their situation.  I am sorry.  I will try to look for something else that meets the need if someone else doesn't get there first.

[Teancum]

What is a syncopate?

 

 

opps!  wrong word!  See edit above.

[The Nehor]

In other words you cannot substantiate what you stated and you refer to I assume Gregory Smith's horrible polemic (no link so I am assuming).  

 

Clearly you have spent absolutely NO time looking into this on your own. Rather you rely on your cronies and are as much of a accolade and supporter of them as you may accuse me or other Dehlin supporters of.

Nope, still not right.

[Scott Lloyd]

In other words you cannot substantiate what you stated and you refer to I assume Gregory Smith's horrible polemic (no link so I am assuming).  

I have substantiated it. And Greg Smith's "horrible polemic" is well documented with a reference to Dehlin's own podcast and a time stamp where it can be found on the recording.

 

I told you I wasn't going to root around in Dehlin's podcast. But I've answered the CFR. You can easily enough find it on your own by following the links I gave.

 

 

Clearly you have spent absolutely NO time looking into this on your own. Rather you rely on your cronies and are as much of a accolade and supporter of them as you may accuse me or other Dehlin supporters of.

 

I've given you links and documentation. If you say they are false, prove it.

 

By the way, one of the issues in Dehlin's disciplinary council (made public by Dehlin himself) is that he said, "If God and Christ do exist, they've got a lot of 'splaining to do."

Edited February 20, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[KevinG]

Cute. No you are not clear and are cryptic. If you want dialogue explain what you mean instead of being allusive and cutsie.

OK

I'll assume for a moment you really didn't understand my statement about your bad behavior.

You repeatedly used "in other words..." As a preface to restate others points in order to make straw man to argue with. It is tedious. It is trolling. It does not help understanding or communication.

Edited February 20, 2015 by KevinG

[Scott Lloyd]

OK

I'll assume for a moment you really didn't understand my state,net about your bad behavior.

You repeatedly used "in other words..." As a preface to restate others points in order to make straw man to argue with. It is tedious. It is trolling. It does not help understanding or communication.

I've been hit with two other instances of his "in-other-words" distortion in the last 10 minutes or so.  You've got company.

[Scott Lloyd]

Nope, still not right.

I wouldn't have minded "syncopate" since it is not a word, and hence doesn't mean anything.

 

But I'll take "accolade" which, though an odd usage in this instance, means "an award or privilege granted as a special honor or as an acknowledgment of merit."

 

Edited to add:

 

It just dawned on me. I think he was trying to write acolyte, which would make more sense in this instance.

 

And with the prior term, I think he meant to write sycophant.

 

First rule of rhetoric: If you're trying to insult somebody, be clear with your terms.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[KevinG]

"In other words" almost always indicates a misrepresentation of what was said and a straw man fallacy will follow.

I teach adults for a living. I'm pretty confident I write clearly, and express ideas well. Except for this darn IPad keyboard and autocorrect. Lack of comprehension may be due to a number of reasons, but I'm loathe to make guesses as to his state of mind or intellect.

So I chose to elucidate as requested instead of returning accusations.

[Calm]

Please demonstrate how Dehlin created a community the PROMOTED DOUBTS in other.  This is  CFR really.

Just to not waste time, are you CFRing me that his community ever promoted doubts in believing members or that he intentionally created a community for that purpose? Or something else?

[Teancum]

I wouldn't have minded "syncopate" since it is not a word, and hence doesn't mean anything.

 

But I'll take "accolade" which, though an odd usage in this instance, means "an award or privilege granted as a special honor or as an acknowledgment of merit."

 

Edited to add:

 

It just dawned on me. I think he was trying to write acolyte, which would make more sense in this instance.

 

And with the prior term, I think he meant to write sycophant.

 

First rule of rhetoric: If you're trying to insult somebody, be clear with your terms.

Sorry. I am not a writer by profession and a at times struggle putting thoughts into the written word. I was not attempting to insult. Rather to describe. sycophant is the correct word.

[Teancum]

Just to not waste time, are you CFRing me that his community ever promoted doubts in believing members or that he intentionally created a community for that purpose? Or something else?

That it was Dehlins intent to promote doubt and to create communities to that purpose.

[Teancum]

OK

I'll assume for a moment you really didn't understand my statement about your bad behavior.

You repeatedly used "in other words..." As a preface to restate others points in order to make straw man to argue with. It is tedious. It is trolling. It does not help understanding or communication.

Ok pleae point out my straw man argument and/or my trolling because neither are my intent.

[Teancum]

That is a clueless accusation.

I've retained friends who left the LDS Church and still share their happy moments. In some cases their reason for leaving was family dysfunction, or unrighteousness dominion. I blame the Mormon families or wards who failed them, not the person who struggles.

While I may weep that they did not find the same comfort and enlightenment I did from my faith, I have never cheered familial heartbreak. I am also very hesitant to encourage one family member to investigate the Gospel without their family, especially youth.

Instead of blaming the Book of Abraham, or Polygamy History for breaking families up perhaps looking into the relationship itself to determine the causes for being unequally yoked or divided would be more productive?

My post was to Mr . Lloyd but I apprciate your comments.

[Pahoran]

I do not think Dehlin or any others who are questioning asked the church to agree with them did he/they?  The question is whether the honest skeptic has a place in the church.

 

That's not the question. It may indeed be your question, but it is not a question that relates to, or is raised by, Mr Dehlin's excommunication.

Mr Dehlin's excommunication may plausibly be seen to raise a number of questions, ranging from "whether the manipulative narcissist has a place in the church" all the way to "what does it take before the shepherds will expel an open, notorious, ruthless and ravening wolf from among the flock."

Regards,

Pahoran

[Pahoran]

I wouldn't have minded "syncopate" since it is not a word, and hence doesn't mean anything.

Sorry to correct you (being a professional wordsmith and all) but it is a perfectly good word. It's a musical term, and it means to play or sing off the beat. (Think Frank Sinatra; he hardly ever sung without syncopation.)

 

First rule of rhetoric: If you're trying to insult somebody, be clear with your terms.

Very true.

Regards,

Pahoran

[KevinG]

Ok pleae point out my straw man argument and/or my trolling because neither are my intent.

I have. Read it again. Your writing skills are not as troubling as your comprehension skills. Constant calls for clarification and CFRs that have already been answered is badgering.

[Calm]

That it was Dehlins intent to promote doubt and to create communities to that purpose.

I don't know his intent. I just know the end result and that was what I was talking about. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Teancum]

I have. Read it again. Your writing skills are not as troubling as your comprehension skills. Constant calls for clarification and CFRs that have already been answered is badgering.

Ok whatever. It seems clear to me you are about scoring points than discussion. Sorry if I sm not as brilliant as you think you are. I tried though.

[Tacenda]

I don't know his intent. I just know the end result and that was what I was talking about. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

It's not apples to oranges, but the church essays have done the same thing as JD's podcasts have done to threaten belief. What to do with that I don't know, because I'm really glad they're there.

[Teancum]

OK

I'll assume for a moment you really didn't understand my statement about your bad behavior.

You repeatedly used "in other words..." As a preface to restate others points in order to make straw man to argue with. It is tedious. It is trolling. It does not help understanding or communication.

I re read the past few pages. I used "in other words" twice. Hardly the "repeatedly you accuse me of.

What does not help with understanding and communication is when someone is asked politely to clarify a point they simply tell the requester of the clarification that their comprehension is lacking. Gee....sort of like what you said to me in a few posts above.

Good night. Where i live it is time to rest from the labors of the day.