Do You Know People Who Left Because Of Dehlin?

[cinepro]

A family in my ward left the Church, and I know the husband was a big fan of Dehlin (and was a regular financial contributor to him until recently).  Obviously we get into "correlation doesn't equal causation" territory, but there's another data point for you.

[Judd]

I know very few people that know who he is. Or at least I know very few people who talk about or have made reference to him. Of those that have, two are (in my personal view) transitioning themselves out. Couldn't say that's from JD or that people on their way out will identify with him (or both) but that's my n=2 experience.

[readstoomuch]

My son.  He got off of his mission and his fiancé had gotten involved with MS and had become inactive at college (not BYU).  She was able to get a recommend from her home ward and they got married in the temple.  They went to Church for another three months, but one of the first things they did in their marriage was to go to a MormonStories Conference in Salt Lake.  The history of the Church was not new for my son as we had talked about issues at home and I know many were covered by his seminary teacher.  His wife, did not and in fact didn`t have a real temple preparation class.  So both of them are inactive and don`t answer the door when any one tries to come from his ward.  They both mention MormonStories as their path out of the Church.  They took the secular, not sure they believe in God and sound very much like John Dehlin and his podcasts.  Even they got to the point where they couldn`t listen to the podcasts because they were "too shrill."

 

A boy from my old ward got involved with MS early on (2006-2007).  I spent quite bit of time talking to him.  He says to me "John Dehlin has pretty much convinced me to not be involved with the Church."  He had other problems and some of them were centered around moral sin, but he could only talk about issues brought up by JD.  

 

Next a man in my ward just stopped coming to Church and he talked to the stake president and bishop and was very angry.  Several of us who are well-read tried to talk to him (the bishop asked us to), but he kept talking about MormonStories and how it had really shook him.  His wife was devout and was quite confused.  She didn`t want to read or listen to the Podcasts.  They moved away and don`t hear anything.  What I see on Facebook is still very angry from him, so I get tired of looking at it.  He sounds much like the MS Facebook group.  That thing is like a SharkTank.  The worst possible place in the world for a doubting Mormon to go to.  

 

John Dehlin could have been a powerful force for good and  providing a balanced opinion about the Church.  He slowly become more caustic as the years went by.  IMO he kept pushing the envelope so that he would be excommunicated.  It also seems to be a way to build a career and practice centered on disaffected Mormons.  

 

Note to Mr Rockpond.  He usually starts chiming in about now.  This is what my experience is and I get to voice my opinion of what relatives and friends said about John Dehlin as I heard them.  He will disagree and I don`t feel like sparring.  Now if we start talking about KK and OW I could have a whole other conversation.  MormonStories did not seem to affect my oldest daughter nearly as much and KK and OW.  

[Tacenda]

My son. He got off of his mission and his fiancé had gotten involved with MS and had become inactive at college (not BYU). She was able to get a recommend from her home ward and they got married in the temple. They went to Church for another three months, but one of the first things they did in their marriage was to go to a MormonStories Conference in Salt Lake. The history of the Church was not new for my son as we had talked about issues at home and I know many were covered by his seminary teacher. His wife, did not and in fact didn`t have a real temple preparation class. So both of them are inactive and don`t answer the door when any one tries to come from his ward. They both mention MormonStories as their path out of the Church. They took the secular, not sure they believe in God and sound very much like John Dehlin and his podcasts. Even they got to the point where they couldn`t listen to the podcasts because they were "too shrill."

A boy from my old ward got involved with MS early on (2006-2007). I spent quite bit of time talking to him. He says to me "John Dehlin has pretty much convinced me to not be involved with the Church." He had other problems and some of them were centered around moral sin, but he could only talk about issues brought up by JD.

Next a man in my ward just stopped coming to Church and he talked to the stake president and bishop and was very angry. Several of us who are well-read tried to talk to him (the bishop asked us to), but he kept talking about MormonStories and how it had really shook him. His wife was devout and was quite confused. She didn`t want to read or listen to the Podcasts. They moved away and don`t hear anything. What I see on Facebook is still very angry from him, so I get tired of looking at it. He sounds much like the MS Facebook group. That thing is like a SharkTank. The worst possible place in the world for a doubting Mormon to go to.

John Dehlin could have been a powerful force for good and providing a balanced opinion about the Church. He slowly become more caustic as the years went by. IMO he kept pushing the envelope so that he would be excommunicated. It also seems to be a way to build a career and practice centered on disaffected Mormons.

Note to Mr Rockpond. He usually starts chiming in about now. This is what my experience is and I get to voice my opinion of what relatives and friends said about John Dehlin as I heard them. He will disagree and I don`t feel like sparring. Now if we start talking about KK and OW I could have a whole other conversation. MormonStories did not seem to affect my oldest daughter nearly as much and KK and OW.

I may have been at the same MS conference, my only one and Claudia Blushman spoke, love her. I actually took my two inactive daughters, kind of embarrassed about it now. They weren't too thrilled about it. Just went because I didn't want to go alone. I remember being afraid to talk to John, as if he were a celebrity. I was in the lobby area and he was a few feet away. I agree with you that John could have been a force for good, maybe to some he still is. But it's no longer how to stay in the LDS church any longer, I don't get that vibe from him now.

Readstoomuch, just love them, which of course you will & do. Hopefully your son and his wife will see a way to hold onto belief in a higher being, which sadly so many disaffected no longer do.

[Duncan]

I may have been at the same MS conference, my only one and Claudia Blushman spoke, love her. I actually took my two inactive daughters, kind of embarrassed about it now. They weren't too thrilled about it. Just went because I didn't want to go alone. I remember being afraid to talk to John, as if he were a celebrity. I was in the lobby area and he was a few feet away. I agree with you that John could have been a force for good, maybe to some he still is. But it's no longer how to stay in the LDS church any longer, I don't get that vibe from him now.

Readstoomuch, just love them, which of course you will & do. Hopefully your son and his wife will see a way to hold onto belief in a higher being, which sadly so many disaffected no longer do.

 

 

he's an internet celebrity, he's famous because he's famous, 

[Brian 2.0]

I listened to MS off and on though strong belief to disaffection to inactivity. I wouldn't say I Ieft because of Dehlin but because of the issues I became aware of or thought more on. And as much as I listened to him, I would also be reading FAIR or other apologetic sources on the same issues.

At what point do you "blame" the message vs the messenger?

How many people left Catholicism because of Elder Jones' mission in Rome? Is it really Elder Jones or the message he was preaching?

To say I left "because of Dehlin" as a lot of people on this thread are saying of others... would be fairly inaccurate and makes it sound like I left to follow a man and his ideas. I left because of a number of issues that already existed that I just didn't see yet or think about enough, some of which were brought to my attention through Dehlin's podcast.

And in this Internet age I would have found those same issues eventually. If it wasn't Dehlin, or MormonThink, it would have been something else. Dehlin doesn't have some grand new theory that takes people out of Mormonism.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Brian 2.0

[Rivers]

John Dehlin actually helped my testimony by introducing me to guys like Terryl Givens and Adam Miller.  I loved the podcasts in which John would bring in faithful and intelligent believers and ask them all the tough questions.  I enjoyed listening to all the responses even though John often scofffed at them. So while John himself didn't do much for, he was a great vehicle in introducing me many unique faithful perspectives. 

[rockpond]

I was well into my faith crisis before coming across Mormon Stories.  I actually heard about Dehlin on an LDS message board and began listening to the podcasts.

 

Those podcasts became a lifeline for me.  They were the only place I could find to explore the issues that were troubling me in a way that made sense.  Dehlin and others encouraged me to stay in the Church and take my time.  That was perfect advice at a period in my life when I had one foot out the door and was ready to step out completely.

 

So I stayed.  And I prayed.  And I studied.  And I kept listening to Mormon Stories.  The individuals I listened to in those podcasts helped me reconstruct my faith.  Without the MS podcasts, I am convinced that I would have left and likely convinced the rest of my family to leave with me.

 

So I credit Dehlin's work with helping me stay.

 

I know a number of people who have either left or gone inactive.  None of them have said it's because of Dehlin.  They've cited issues that are discussed in MS podcasts but those issues exist with or without Dehlin (most of his podcasts are with people who have already published their ideas/research).

 

I know others, including the last RS president in my ward, who also credit Dehlin's work with helping them stay.

[Kenngo1969]

John Dehlin actually helped my testimony by introducing me to guys like Terryl Givens and Adam Miller.  I loved the podcasts in which John would bring in faithful and intelligent believers and ask them all the tough questions. ...

Juliann, I know you said you don't want to make this about Mr. Dehlin himself, so I apologize to the extent that I do that, but ...

 

Mr. Dehlin, it seems, "asked tough questions" of believers, while saving his softball, creampuff questions for skeptics.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

I was well into my faith crisis before coming across Mormon Stories.  I actually heard about Dehlin on an LDS message board and began listening to the podcasts.

 

Those podcasts became a lifeline for me.  They were the only place I could find to explore the issues that were troubling me in a way that made sense.  Dehlin and others encouraged me to stay in the Church and take my time.  That was perfect advice at a period in my life when I had one foot out the door and was ready to step out completely.

 

So I stayed.  And I prayed.  And I studied.  And I kept listening to Mormon Stories.  The individuals I listened to in those podcasts helped me reconstruct my faith.  Without the MS podcasts, I am convinced that I would have left and likely convinced the rest of my family to leave with me.

 

So I credit Dehlin's work with helping me stay. ...

 

 

It's interesting to go look up some of Ed Decker's work on Amazon.  (I'm not comparing the Messrs. Dehlin and Decker, or comparing their work: this is simply an observation.)  I don't know about reviews in more recent times, but, when I checked several years ago, amidst the four-star "Attaboy-Ed-keep-telling-the-truth-about-how-evil-Mormons-and-Mormonism-are" reviews was an occasional review that said Mr. Decker's work spurred skepticism in the reader, who wondered if Mormons and Mormonism possibly could be as evil as Mr. Decker claims they are, thus prompting the reader to investigate further ... and to join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as a result.  I'm sure that's the last thing Mr. Decker would want to result from his work.

 

Amidst the various assessments of him, at times, I have been prompted to ask myself, "Will the real John Dehlin please stand up?" People, along with their views, can evolve, I suppose, which is neither, in itself, a good or a bad thing: It's simply one of the vicissitudes that come with being human.  But, essentially (and I suppose this can be said of many of us) there's more than one John Dehlin: perhaps the "StayLDS" John Dehlin and the John Dehlin of his early podcasts is different than the John Dehlin of his later, perhaps more skeptical work.

[Gray]

I don't really know. I know that my cousin and her family left over prop 8. I'm not sure of the reasons for anyone else I know of who left the church.

 

Scratch that. My sister left in the 80s over counter-cult stuff she got from her Evangelical boyfriend. Another sister left over polygamy, but this again was way before Dehlin (and her doubts came from Sunday School lessons, not outside material)

Edited May 25, 2015 by Gray

[JLHPROF]

he's an internet celebrity, he's famous because he's famous, 

 

Nah, he's just another guru splitting off from the Church.

He has his followers, those he's leading out of the Church.

 

He's no different from James Strang, Joseph Smith III, Lorin Woolley, James Harmston, Denver Snuffer, and now, Kate Kelly.  All people who have headed out of the Church, have followers with beliefs different from the Church, and have become a law unto themselves.  (Was Joseph Smith III ever excommunicated from the LDS Church?  Never actually read that.)

 

There have always been those with followings who have been excommunicated and have members follow them out.  Sometimes they build an organization around themselves.  Sometimes they disappear into obscurity.

[Nevo]

I'm curious how many people here know of friends or relatives who credit Dehlin with their decision to leave the Church. There has been a lot of talk about his influence but how extensive has it been in your experience?

 

I don't know of anyone in my (fairly small) network of church acquaintances and relatives who credits Dehlin with their decision to leave the Church. I think Dehlin probably influenced one of my wife's relatives who left the Church about a year ago, but I think the CES Letter and the Internet were the main culprits. Two other couples I know who left the Church for doctrinal/historical reasons did so pre-Dehlin. One left after reading Fawn Brodie's No Man Knows My History; the other couple left after discussions with friends who'd been reading Grant Palmer's An Insider's View of Mormon Origins.

[juliann]

Thanks everybody, this was helpful. I was just wondering what personal experience was....there are lots of stories but I don't know the people in them.

 

I have absolutely no interest in providing a forum for people to trash and dissect Dehlin so I'm going to ask to close the thread. I rarely open threads and I do have to say how frustrating and frankly, bizarre, it is that an OP can make a request for a very specific topic and within a few posts someone is willfully violating it. No matter how many times I tried to get it back on track, someone came in to go off on Dehlin again. (Thank you to those who desisted when I asked.)

 

I've probably done that or at least responded to those who were disrespecting the OP and I am now sorry... and a bit ashamed.

[Kenngo1969]

... I do have to say how frustrating and frankly, bizarre, it is that an OP can make a request for a very specific topic and within a few posts someone is willfully violating it. ...

 

Sorry.