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Far West Mo Temple Commandment (Or Prophecy) Retracted?


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Interesting,

I don't quite follow. Why do you think that commandments can only be given if they are going to be obeyed?

Is there no freedom given to us?

Freedom to follow a general non-constrained commandment is one thing. A commandment given to a large gathering with a very specific timeline laid out, followed by crickets, seems to be something different to me. Especially when God knew that no large gathering would actually be present. Why bother? 

Edited by mass168
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Interesting,

I don't quite follow. Why do you think that commandments can only be given if they are going to be obeyed?

Is there no freedom given to us?

Additional thought. Please be gentle with comments on taking verses out of context, but.... 1 Nephi 3:7. When I read that verse and D&C 115 together my heart just hurts, if you'll pardon the sentimentality. Especially considering how long it has been since the Church has had the means and opportunity to build Far West. I know that no individual is perfect, but this command was laid on the shoulders of a lot of people. I just feel like someone somewhere could have and should have stepped up by now to change Far West into the accomplished category. 1909 was a long time ago.. 

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Additional thought. Please be gentle with comments on taking verses out of context, but.... 1 Nephi 3:7. When I read that verse and D&C 115 together my heart just hurts, if you'll pardon the sentimentality. Especially considering how long it has been since the Church has had the means and opportunity to build Far West. I know that no individual is perfect, but this command was laid on the shoulders of a lot of people. I just feel like someone somewhere could have and should have stepped up by now to change Far West into the accomplished category. 1909 was a long time ago.. 

 

 

what happened or was supposed to happen in 1909?

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Additional thought. Please be gentle with comments on taking verses out of context, but.... 1 Nephi 3:7. When I read that verse and D&C 115 together my heart just hurts, if you'll pardon the sentimentality. Especially considering how long it has been since the Church has had the means and opportunity to build Far West. I know that no individual is perfect, but this command was laid on the shoulders of a lot of people. I just feel like someone somewhere could have and should have stepped up by now to change Far West into the accomplished category. 1909 was a long time ago.. 

 

Just because the lord will provide a way does not mean he compels.

 

I think it is unreasonable to expect the lord to only command when he knows he will be obeyed.

 

Many of the saints in far west were not obedient to the commandments of the lord, in many different ways.  

 

I think that the commandment was doable at the time it was issued, but subsequent disobedience by the saints is what caused the commandment to be unable to be fulfilled.

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 not every temple built has a written revelation and not every temple prevented from being built has a written revocation.  Only God knows why one and not the other.

 

You're right that not every temple has a canonized scripture commanding it to be built but the Far West Temple does. It is a scripture. A commandment and a prophesy. If canonized scripture is going to be rescinded it seems that would also need to appear in scripture.

 

BTW- my understanding is while there is no longer a town of Far West where the saints can gather, there is a Far West Ward in Caldwell County where some saints have been gathering. People have been gathering to Independence, Far West and Adam Ondi Ahman for many years. The command to build the Far West Temple remains.

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Additional thought. Please be gentle with comments on taking verses out of context, but.... 1 Nephi 3:7. When I read that verse and D&C 115 together my heart just hurts, if you'll pardon the sentimentality. Especially considering how long it has been since the Church has had the means and opportunity to build Far West. I know that no individual is perfect, but this command was laid on the shoulders of a lot of people. I just feel like someone somewhere could have and should have stepped up by now to change Far West into the accomplished category. 1909 was a long time ago.. 

 

The temple property has been and is owned by someone else who does not want to relinquish ownership and the Church does not have eminent domain powers.

Edited by ERayR
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You're right that not every temple has a canonized scripture commanding it to be built but the Far West Temple does. It is a scripture. A commandment and a prophesy. If canonized scripture is going to be rescinded it seems that would also need to appear in scripture.

 

BTW- my understanding is while there is no longer a town of Far West where the saints can gather, there is a Far West Ward in Caldwell County where some saints have been gathering. People have been gathering to Independence, Far West and Adam Ondi Ahman for many years. The command to build the Far West Temple remains.

 

I am confident that when the time is right it will be.

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Your dates are off. The saints were driven out in 1838. The foundations of the temple were laid in 1839 as the scripture instructed. That's where the 12 began the missions to England

All the dates I originally stated came directly out of following the timeline in D&C 115. I did not give a date on which the saints were driven out, I do not actually know when this happened. All I know is that it was before the temple was completed. If what you are saying is true, this problem becomes even more interesting to me, for the following reason. The revelation was given April 26, 1838. If it really was only a couple months later they were driven out, that does nothing but enhance my feeling of uneasiness about this commandment/prophecy. Is the Lord really so fickle? 

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what happened or was supposed to happen in 1909?

The Church reacquired the original temple site in 1909. Nothing at all was done with it until 1968, when a minimal beautification and monument were put in place near the original cornerstones. That is how it stands today. And I stated the Church had the means to do something about the commandment/prophecy if they willed, simply because many other temple projects have been completed since 1909, or even since 1968 if you want to be generous.  

Edited by mass168
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You're referring to the Temple Lot in Independence, right? Because the church has owned the Far West land for a hundred years.

Referring to Far West,1909 to be exact, "The Missouri Mormon Experience," Thomas M. Spencer, Pg 87. Available on Google Books. 

Edited by mass168
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You're right that not every temple has a canonized scripture commanding it to be built but the Far West Temple does. It is a scripture. A commandment and a prophesy. If canonized scripture is going to be rescinded it seems that would also need to appear in scripture.

 

I agree, 100%.

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If the Lord knew they would be difficult, or impossible circumstances (as most people claim), why would he command them to not just lay the cornerstones, but actually finish the work? A few completed cornerstones don't really address the elephant in the room. Sure, if you want me to admit they probably got a great feeling of unity out of of their small accomplishment, I will. But I would invite you to wonder with me how long that lasted when the rest of the revelation evolved into the ghost town that is Far West. At the very least this temple could have been rescinded just like the one in Jackson County. 

Edited by mass168
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If the Lord knew they would be difficult, or impossible circumstances (as most people claim), why would he command them to not just lay the cornerstones, but actually finish the work? A few completed cornerstones don't really address the elephant in the room. Sure, if you want me to admit they probably got a great feeling of unity out of of their small accomplishment, I will. But I would invite you to wonder with me how long that lasted when the rest of the revelation evolved into the ghost town that is Far West. At the very least this temple could have been rescinded just like the one in Jackson County. 

 

Patience grasshopper when there is enough activity in the area to sustain it one will be built.

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Interestingly the Kansas City Temple is only 45 minutes from Far West so there was enough activity to warrant a temple in the area. They simply chose a different location than the one that was commanded.

 

Patience grasshopper it will come.  Does it make sense to put the temple where the majority of the temple participant would have an additional 45 minutes commute?

Edited by ERayR
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Patience grasshopper it will come.  Does it make sense to put the temple where the majority of the temple participant would have an additional 45 minutes commute?

The brethren are the ones to decide when the prophesy/commandment will be fulfilled and whether or not cutting a 45 minutes commute for some members would be the most important factor in deciding temple location. It very well could be.

 

My point was that there is an argument that a temple could have been justified in the area.

Edited by HappyJackWagon
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Patience grasshopper it will come.  Does it make sense to put the temple where the majority of the temple participant would have an additional 45 minutes commute?

45 minutes both ways is 1.5 hours.

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45 minutes both ways is 1.5 hours.

Impressive math skills :) JK.

 

Perhaps with the exception of Utah saints, a 1 1/2 hour round trip commute would have been gladly accepted by members 15 years ago, especially if it resulted in the fulfillment of prophesy/commandment.

Edited by HappyJackWagon
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The brethren are the ones to decide when the prophesy/commandment will be fulfilled and whether or not cutting a 45 minutes commute for some members would be the most important factor in deciding temple location. It very well could be.

 

My point was that there is an argument that a temple could have been justified in the area.

 

Of course there is and I would assume that Far West was a consideration but those whose decision it was were not inspired do locate it in Far West.  Yet.

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Of course there is and I would assume that Far West was a consideration but those whose decision it was were not inspired do locate it in Far West.  Yet.

Agreed.

 

What message do you think members would have taken from a temple being built in Far West? Would it have created a fervor of people moving to the area to continue the fulfillment of prophesy?

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Of course there is and I would assume that Far West was a consideration but those whose decision it was were not inspired do locate it in Far West. Yet.

They were not inspired? By a scripture that called for the far west location in 1838? How much inspiration do they need?

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