Divorce... Trying To Figure It Out

[Maestrophil]

Hi all!

I have been away from the boards for a long time. My life has taken quite a turn and I was not in a position where I had the time or the inclination to do much for myself. But i digress...

The past two years for me have included a revelation from my now ex wife of her affair, our subsequent divorce and her marriage to her "other", and recently my being sealed to a wonderful woman.

What I wanted to discuss is my difficulty in feeling comfortable with divorce in the church and my place in the church as a divorced/re-married father.

I am having a hard time feeling as comfortable and confident as a member as I did before. I feel like I am viewed as "broken" and I know I see myself as that and am likely projecting a bit. Nonetheless, I have noticed how little the talks, lessons etc in church talk about how a blended family fits into the gospel plan. It becomes more apparent that we don't have divorced general authorities, and here in Utah, very rarely do I see previously divorced bishops and Stake Presidents. Not that I need or desire any such positions (busy enough, thanks!) but it makes me feel a bit as if I am seen as not adequate for such a position. The hardest part of the whole thing is that I feel my marriage was broken up by no action of my own - and now I carry a burden for her choices.

Also, the children situation is hard to. My Step-daughters had a non-member father and were not sealed. So talk of eternal families etc is a bit odd for them, especially since I have custody of my biological children who are sealed to me. And then there is the whole issue of the Church not granting me a temple cancellation from my EX. My wife and I both cringe at that one. I am not sure how to be completely at peace with being sealed to that woman in addition to my current wife.

Sorry, I know this is disjointed and scattered, but I had to start somewhere. Please feel free to chime in on any of the above ideas or anything else you may feel useful.

Thanks!

Maestrophil

[Duncan]

well, being in the same state kinda (not remarried..yet!) I can say that I have had a former Bishop divorced (he was called after he was remarried ) and our current stake president has been divorced. How they ever got remarried is a mystery but whatever. I have sat in meetings where callings have been discussed and the marriage aspect wasn't ever discussed except in one case where the counselor thought that the primary pres. HAD to be married. When it was pointed out that the entire primary presidency in the other ward that met in our building were all single, all divorced women he objected and said that the handbook says...(the handbook says nothing about callings and marriage) it makes no lick of difference if one is married or not when it comes to handing out callings beyond stake presidency and bishop.

[cinepro]

Wow. That's a lot to think about.

It's been my impression that the Church has made efforts to be a little more inclusive in acknowledging "unconventional" families in Ensign articles and such. I also understand there are online support groups. But your situation is definitely unique.

Edited January 13, 2012 by cinepro

[Maestrophil]

Duncan,

You are in Canada, right? I have lived outside of Utah and found previously divorced people serving in all positions. Now that I am in Utah, it does not seem to be the case. I NEVER see bishops and Stake Pres. who are re-married. Makes you wonder about the whole culture vs doctrine thing, huh?

thanks for your reply, and good luck... my remarriage came out of nowhere, and I am very happily married. :-)

[Maestrophil]

Thanks for the link cinepro. I'm reading now!

[CV75]

What I wanted to discuss is my difficulty in feeling comfortable with divorce in the church and my place in the church as a divorced/re-married father.

Positions are as much to bring the one who holds them to Christ as to bring the ones they serve to Christ. Those who do not hold them suffer and exert faith in other ways, and bring others to Christ in other ways.

Many carry burdens imposed upon them by others, hence the Atonement. Faith in the Atonement brings as much healing to the offended as forgiveness to the offenders—we cannot limit its efficacy in either direction because it is infinite.

Living as if you are sealed (your current wife, the girls, any others) will certainly bring a peace that will be realized someday.

Also, two years is very, very little time to adjust to all that has happened. I think you are entitled to cut yourselves some slack over unmet expectations.

[Duncan]

Duncan,

You are in Canada, right? I have lived outside of Utah and found previously divorced people serving in all positions. Now that I am in Utah, it does not seem to be the case. I NEVER see bishops and Stake Pres. who are re-married. Makes you wonder about the whole culture vs doctrine thing, huh?

thanks for your reply, and good luck... my remarriage came out of nowhere, and I am very happily married. :-)

in Canada yes! very happy for you! I once heard Elder Spencer V. Jones of the 70 say that if the Lord can find him in Viredn, New Mexico then the lord can find you anywhere! he did say something like Elder Scott, I think, was his mission president but he said he really didn't know him well and he never kept up with him after the mission so he didn't think he had anything to do with his calling as a 70

[morgan.deane]

Hi all!

I have been away from the boards for a long time. My life has taken quite a turn and I was not in a position where I had the time or the inclination to do much for myself. But i digress...

The past two years for me have included a revelation from my now ex wife of her affair, our subsequent divorce and her marriage to her "other", and recently my being sealed to a wonderful woman.

What I wanted to discuss is my difficulty in feeling comfortable with divorce in the church and my place in the church as a divorced/re-married father.

I am having a hard time feeling as comfortable and confident as a member as I did before. I feel like I am viewed as "broken" and I know I see myself as that and am likely projecting a bit. Nonetheless, I have noticed how little the talks, lessons etc in church talk about how a blended family fits into the gospel plan. It becomes more apparent that we don't have divorced general authorities, and here in Utah, very rarely do I see previously divorced bishops and Stake Presidents. Not that I need or desire any such positions (busy enough, thanks!) but it makes me feel a bit as if I am seen as not adequate for such a position. The hardest part of the whole thing is that I feel my marriage was broken up by no action of my own - and now I carry a burden for her choices.

Also, the children situation is hard to. My Step-daughters had a non-member father and were not sealed. So talk of eternal families etc is a bit odd for them, especially since I have custody of my biological children who are sealed to me. And then there is the whole issue of the Church not granting me a temple cancellation from my EX. My wife and I both cringe at that one. I am not sure how to be completely at peace with being sealed to that woman in addition to my current wife.

Sorry, I know this is disjointed and scattered, but I had to start somewhere. Please feel free to chime in on any of the above ideas or anything else you may feel useful.

Thanks!

Maestrophil

I certainly understand. I'm a divorced single father that still attends a singles ward. Trying to date makes me feel like a shelter dog among a bunch of puppies. I have a great deal going for me in my life that would make me attractive to the opposite sex but I'm thrown in with a bunch of 19 year old college students (as a college professor) so the lack of girls that even meet some basic criteria becomes rather frustrating.

I think there are so few divorced people in leadership callings in the church is at last in part due to the rather long time it takes for the top leadership to reflect trends in the church. In a 100 years I expect to see more South American and African general authorities and maybe even a few divorced ones on their second marriages.

[mercyngrace]

Four things to consider:

1. We are all broken.

2. Sometimes our brokenness is not publicly perceptible which can lead to the dangerous delusion that we are whole.

3. Those who don't know they are broken are the most broken of all.

4. Those who think others aren't broken are likely way too self-critical or self-conscious.

You've been through a lot MaestroPhil. Trust the Lord. Live your life knowing that His promises are sure and that He already has a resolution for any conundrum you can imagine. Finally, and probably most importantly, relax. You fit in just fine.

Edited January 13, 2012 by mercyngrace

[Duncan]

Four things to consider:

1. We are all broken.

2. Sometimes our brokenness is not publicly perceptible which can lead to the dangerous delusion that we are whole.

3. Those who don't know they are broken are the most broken of all.

4. Those who think others aren't broken are likely way too self-critical or self-conscious.

You've been through a lot MaestroPhil. Trust the Lord. Live you life knowing that His promises are sure and that He already has a resolution for any conundrum you can imagine. Finally, and probably most importantly, relax. You fit in just fine.

truly,truly one of the best! and what is more I ran out of rep. points so I owe you and another poster!!

Edited January 13, 2012 by Duncan

[Maestrophil]

Thank you, Mercy... that was beautiful. And I don't want to imply my life is dark and void of blessings. I am genuinely happy (though still a bit wounded) and thankful my testimony weathered the storm!

[Grundelwalken]

While I am happily married to my first (and only) wife, I am a child of divorced parents and watched my Dad (with whom I lived) struggle with many of these same feelings. It is my opinion that he took things pretty hard (I was 6 when the divorce happened so I watched as I grew up) and felt very inadequate for many years. There was even a time when we were slightly less active than we had been.

My own personal feeling is that my dad is one of the best men I have ever known (and I have associated with many General Authorities and leaders in the Church). He is worthy and faithful and is a wonderful father/husband. He married my step-mother and continued on the path he had hoped would be followed with his first wife (my mom). It was always difficult but once he got his "sea legs" he never faltered, though he did feel less than others for a time. He has since served in numerous bishoprics, been a WML/stake/ward missionary (more baptisms than I ever had on a full-time mission), taught primary, HP, EQ, seminary, etc. and generally been a wonderful example of a Latter-day Saint.

We have a large family (10 kids -- 4 from the first marriage and 6 from 2nd) but there has never been a division between us. My youngest sister was surprised when she came to visit me once (she's 21 years younger) and I mentioned that Dad had been married before. It just wasn't part of her life because it wasn't part of dad's life anymore.

I guess my point is that over time these things tend to heal if you don't focus on them in the home. At least they did for me and my family. Just be a good dad and things will take care of themselves. Good luck and God bless. MW

Oh, and I almost forgot, what the heck are rep points? I have looked through the guidelines and I see nothing about them. I would like to give some out but don't know what to do. Am I not qualified yet or am I just clueless? MW

Edited January 13, 2012 by Grundelwalken

[Fifth Columnist]

What I wanted to discuss is my difficulty in feeling comfortable with divorce in the church and my place in the church as a divorced/re-married father.

I am having a hard time feeling as comfortable and confident as a member as I did before. I feel like I am viewed as "broken" and I know I see myself as that and am likely projecting a bit. Nonetheless, I have noticed how little the talks, lessons etc in church talk about how a blended family fits into the gospel plan. It becomes more apparent that we don't have divorced general authorities, and here in Utah, very rarely do I see previously divorced bishops and Stake Presidents. Not that I need or desire any such positions (busy enough, thanks!) but it makes me feel a bit as if I am seen as not adequate for such a position. The hardest part of the whole thing is that I feel my marriage was broken up by no action of my own - and now I carry a burden for her choices.

Unfortunately, the Church affirmatively advances the idea that you are "broken" or a second class citizen. The Church does this with policies such as not allowing divorced men (and maybe women) be a temple worker (if I recall correctly, you might be able to overcome this if you get married and sit out a five year waiting period) or divorced people teach seminary in CES.

Don't feel too bad though, since you are in the same boat as Brigham Young and a number of other early church leaders.

[ERMD]

If your former spouse reaches the point where she desires to be sealed to someone else, then an application to the First Presidency can be filed for a cancellation of sealing.

[katherine the great]

Hi all!

I have been away from the boards for a long time. My life has taken quite a turn and I was not in a position where I had the time or the inclination to do much for myself. But i digress...

The past two years for me have included a revelation from my now ex wife of her affair, our subsequent divorce and her marriage to her "other", and recently my being sealed to a wonderful woman.

What I wanted to discuss is my difficulty in feeling comfortable with divorce in the church and my place in the church as a divorced/re-married father.

I am having a hard time feeling as comfortable and confident as a member as I did before. I feel like I am viewed as "broken" and I know I see myself as that and am likely projecting a bit. Nonetheless, I have noticed how little the talks, lessons etc in church talk about how a blended family fits into the gospel plan. It becomes more apparent that we don't have divorced general authorities, and here in Utah, very rarely do I see previously divorced bishops and Stake Presidents. Not that I need or desire any such positions (busy enough, thanks!) but it makes me feel a bit as if I am seen as not adequate for such a position. The hardest part of the whole thing is that I feel my marriage was broken up by no action of my own - and now I carry a burden for her choices.

Also, the children situation is hard to. My Step-daughters had a non-member father and were not sealed. So talk of eternal families etc is a bit odd for them, especially since I have custody of my biological children who are sealed to me. And then there is the whole issue of the Church not granting me a temple cancellation from my EX. My wife and I both cringe at that one. I am not sure how to be completely at peace with being sealed to that woman in addition to my current wife.

Sorry, I know this is disjointed and scattered, but I had to start somewhere. Please feel free to chime in on any of the above ideas or anything else you may feel useful.

Thanks!

Maestrophil

Welcome back Maestro. I'm sorry for all you've been through. Sometimes life takes unexpected twists and turns and some can be very painful. With the extremely high divorce rate in America, I think you can expect attitudes towards divorced saints to change a lot in the next twenty years.

[dtorge26]

My situation follows yours almost exactly. I think you have to be careful about the perceptions you carry in your own mind, which may or may not be based on anything real. My ward stood by me through the whole process, and never made me feel second class, although at times I felt that I didn't fit in. When I remarried a particularly wonderful woman, they were all ecstatic (not just because she was a former YW and Primary president from another ward!). I've been EQ president for 3 years, but with no aspirations or expectations about what callings are in my future.

Quite frankly, the family we've been able to blend together over the past 4 years would be hard to differentiate from any normal situation. If you found yourself a gem to remarry, then your life is going to be great, inside the church and outside, and there's no reason why your kids shouldn't feel blessed to have an additional parent in their lives.

[LeSellers]

what the heck are rep points? I have looked through the guidelines and I see nothing about them. I would like to give some out but don't know what to do. Am I not qualified yet or am I just clueless?

In the lower right-hand corner of each message (except your own), and above the quote buttons, is an upward-pointing arrow to the left of a pale square with a digit in it. The digit represents the number of people who have "repped" the message. Use the arrow to rep the message if it seems worthy of such an honor.

Lehi

[ebeddoulos]

I divorced my first wife and received full custody of my one year-old daughter. I remarried in the temple to a lovely lady and we have been blessed with three more children.. A cancellation of sealing was not received. It no longer bothers me. I figure that in the eternities it will be worked out and I will understand.

Since that time, due to a rigorous military career, I have moved often and received a wide variety of callings ranging from Elders Quorum President, Seminary Teacher (Early Morning), Stake Mission President, Stake Young Mens Presidency, High Councilman, High Priest Group Leadership, Instructor (Quorum, Gospel Doctrine, Sunbeams, Temple Preparation and Gospel Essentials), Scoutmaster, Cubmaster and a few more. My bride's callings have been similarly varied. Our children have grown. All are endowed and were married in the temple. All have served missions. All are active in the church.

My advice - for what it is worth - is to relax, put it in God's hands, be the best husband and father you can possibly be, magnify the callings you are given and life with be good.

[Stargazer]

Your sealing to your ex need not be cancelled. That's for her to worry about, and I'd say the chances are highly unlikely that your sealing to her will be confirmed by the Holy Spirit of Promise. In the same way that King David's wives were taken from him and will belong to others in the eternity, your ex's sealing to you is toast, regardless of what it says on paper.

In my own case, I was not sealed to my first wife, and the marriage only lasted 4 years. She decided she wanted out; I let her leave. My second (and last) wife had been sealed to her first husband, but he was excommunicated after adultery, and divorced her. When I showed up on the scene, she then applied for a sealing cancellation (which her ex consented to, with praise for her character). We married civilly because I was about to be sent overseas and couldn't wait for the cancellation (it arrived the same day we were married, coincidentally, though after the ceremony). We were sealed in the Swiss temple about 6 months later (Pres. Kimball specifically waived the year-long wait in his letter). Her children (7 of them) were sealed to her and her ex, but Pres. Kimball's letter also covered that situation by stating that a parent-child sealing could not be cancelled, but in his wording it was clear that he meant that the children had the right to eternal parentage, by virtue of the sealing, regardless of what happened to their birth parents.

I consider that her children are mine.

But my two children from the first marriage were never sealed to my first wife and I. They are both inactive in the church, and it's unlikely that they will be sealed to any parent in this life. I am nevertheless content that all will turn out the way it has to be, in the end. This is because I have confidence in the Atonement and the mercy of God.

As to any social repercussions of being a divorced and remarried man in the Church, I felt a bit out of place in the ward where we first lived as husband and wife (where they had lived for many years together), but after we moved to Germany (as part of my military service) we were in a place where no-one had ever known us as anything else as married to each other.

Perhaps you just need to move to a different stake.

[Stargazer]

Unfortunately, the Church affirmatively advances the idea that you are "broken" or a second class citizen.

Sorry, but I believe this statement is low-grade BS.

The Church does this with policies such as not allowing divorced men (and maybe women) be a temple worker (if I recall correctly, you might be able to overcome this if you get married and sit out a five year waiting period) or divorced people teach seminary in CES.

Odd that I've seen fairly recently divorced men serving as temple workers, then. Maybe the temple was hard-up.

[Duncan]

Sorry, but I believe this statement is low-grade BS.

Odd that I've seen fairly recently divorced men serving as temple workers, then. Maybe the temple was hard-up.

Stargazer is awesome!!!

[Storm Rider]

Sorry, but I believe this statement is low-grade BS. Odd that I've seen fairly recently divorced men serving as temple workers, then. Maybe the temple was hard-up.

I actually think the five year waiting period for divorced people (at least it is for men) is accurate. Having served in the temple for many years that has been the rule. Of course, there could be a recent change that has occurred without my knowledge. Divorce is a significant and serious issue and it takes two people for one to occur. The Church and the temple will take no position in who was at fault and who was not; thus, they are left in the position to acknowledge that a divorce occurred. The temple, of all places in the Church, strives to maintain the highest degree of righteousness among those who attend in order to have the Spirit abound. That is the reason a temple recommend is needed by all who attend.

No one is a second class person before the Lord. I agree that this is more projection than actuality. Know that you are loved fully and completely by your Father in Heaven and he knows and understand all that you have gone through and all that you will go through. Let him be the gardner of your soul and he will lead you. As long as you fulfill his will your exaltation is assured.

[Duncan]

I actually think the five year waiting period for divorced people (at least it is for men) is accurate. Having served in the temple for many years that has been the rule. Of course, there could be a recent change that has occurred without my knowledge. Divorce is a significant and serious issue and it takes two people for one to occur. The Church and the temple will take no position in who was at fault and who was not; thus, they are left in the position to acknowledge that a divorce occurred. The temple, of all places in the Church, strives to maintain the highest degree of righteousness among those who attend in order to have the Spirit abound. That is the reason a temple recommend is needed by all who attend.

No one is a second class person before the Lord. I agree that this is more projection than actuality. Know that you are loved fully and completely by your Father in Heaven and he knows and understand all that you have gone through and all that you will go through. Let him be the gardner of your soul and he will lead you. As long as you fulfill his will your exaltation is assured.

oh, good gravy, I ran out of rep points. Seems like you only get like 3 or something

[Calm]

There is a five year waiting period for those that committed adultery. I don't believe the partner not at fault has to wait though.

add-on: I am thinking of temple recommends. Not sure about serving as temple workers and my husband took back his handbook! so I can't consult it.

Edited January 14, 2012 by calmoriah

[katherine the great]

I actually think the five year waiting period for divorced people (at least it is for men) is accurate. Having served in the temple for many years that has been the rule. Of course, there could be a recent change that has occurred without my knowledge. Divorce is a significant and serious issue and it takes two people for one to occur.

Actually it doesn't. I could refuse to sign divorce papers and eventually still find myself divorced. Most people just accept the inevitable earlier and decide to go on with their lives, even if they were the innocent party. If there is a five year waiting period to work in the temple than it cannot have anything to do with worthiness. There most certainly is not a five year waiting period for a temple recommend. My mom was divorced and there was never any question of her worthiness, and she was never without her recommend. In fact, being able to attend the temple really kept her from having a nervous breakdown during those very painful years.