Forgiveness and trauma

[bluebell]

16 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Will someone describe what talking about a trauma actually does for a person? I’m too close to it, but asking for a friend.  Seems like a dumb question from a therapist I know. 

I have no idea what it does but I know when something is hurting, talking it out, out loud, (even if it’s just to myself) somehow helps. 

[Rain]

37 minutes ago, Calm said:

Link didn’t work for me.  What was the name please?

Sorry. Fixed it. 

[jkwilliams]

Thank you for all the kind words. I suppose I’ll talk to a therapist if this issue resurfaces. It isn’t bothering me, and as I said, it just was something that came up temporarily. I’m in a good place. 

[BlueDreams]

On 12/24/2023 at 7:34 PM, MustardSeed said:

Will someone describe what talking about a trauma actually does for a person? I’m too close to it, but asking for a friend.  Seems like a dumb question from a therapist I know. 

It does make me giggle a little. In someway you sound more like a therapist, since we tend to suck at taking our own advice at times

I see a few uses. It can reduce its potency. Kinda like how shame reduces when you just say what you're ashamed about out loud. Saying the trauma can be a form of unburdening.

For some, it reduces the energy being used to deny that trauma happened to them and allow them to actually heal as opposed to pretending they don't have a wound. 

It can also just allow other people to hold and care for you, which reduces the weight of the burden trauma puts on you. It can also help to navigate what's happening to you. I've been going to a bereavement group for people who've lost pregnancies/infants monthly, and it's been both helpful to have people who get what I'm going through. I've been grateful for the things that I've had that some haven't (mainly, unconditional support from those I'm closest to...turns out that's not universal), felt relief when something I'm experiencing is completely normal, and enjoyed helping others feel validated in their own experiences. 

[MustardSeed]

I appreciate the thoughts here - 

I started typing but it kept going too long so Ill just say thank you

[jkwilliams]

I heard from my nephew yesterday. He has seen some combat, which he couldn’t discuss, but he is safe and focused on his job. My brother-in-law (his father) has been in Israel for a month helping cover the jobs of currently serving reservists. He experienced a missile attack but is also safe. 

[Tacenda]

22 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

I heard from my nephew yesterday. He has seen some combat, which he couldn’t discuss, but he is safe and focused on his job. My brother-in-law (his father) has been in Israel for a month helping cover the jobs of currently serving reservists. He experienced a missile attack but is also safe. 

Thanks goodness! 

[Calm]

On 12/29/2023 at 10:05 AM, jkwilliams said:

I heard from my nephew yesterday. He has seen some combat, which he couldn’t discuss, but he is safe and focused on his job. My brother-in-law (his father) has been in Israel for a month helping cover the jobs of currently serving reservists. He experienced a missile attack but is also safe. 

Is it getting any quieter from their viewpoint?

Edited December 30, 2023 by Calm

[jkwilliams]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Is it getting any quieter from their viewpoint?

Not really, no.

[Chum]

On 12/24/2023 at 9:34 PM, MustardSeed said:

Will someone describe what talking about a trauma actually does for a person? I’m too close to it, but asking for a friend.  Seems like a dumb question from a therapist I know. 

Pain is pressure. Talking introduces pathways for pain flow which relieves pressure. 

[SkyRock]

This thread brought back the memory of attending a funeral of man.  It was very well attended (300 to 500 people).  His daughter gave the eulogy.  He was no one important, never held any important callings in the church,  just impacted many lives and died at 68.

His wife later told me she never knew if had loved her until the last few years when he retired.   I found out later that he had cheated on her repeatedly, including those last few years.   Then, talking to some of his children, I was informed that he had molested at least one of his children, including the daughter that eulogized him and praised him, but didn't cry about his death. 

This person left deep wounds in many people.  

[Stargazer]

22 hours ago, SkyRock said:

This thread brought back the memory of attending a funeral of man.  It was very well attended (300 to 500 people).  His daughter gave the eulogy.  He was no one important, never held any important callings in the church,  just impacted many lives and died at 68.

His wife later told me she never knew if had loved her until the last few years when he retired.   I found out later that he had cheated on her repeatedly, including those last few years.   Then, talking to some of his children, I was informed that he had molested at least one of his children, including the daughter that eulogized him and praised him, but didn't cry about his death. 

This person left deep wounds in many people.  

Wow. This one leads me to recall my brother-in-law who was married to one of my late wife's sisters. He seemed to have lived a decent life, took care of his family well, and seemed to be a good husband. I met him briefly once while I was on my mission, and then later by astounding coincidence I ended up marrying his wife's sister! After he died, my sister-in-law found out that he had had a long-term mistress, who actually showed up for the funeral! I never got the full story on that, because she never wanted to talk about it with my wife, just told her that it had happened.

On the other hand, after my current wife's husband passed away, she found out that he had quietly helped many people out of troubles by helping them finding jobs, buying them groceries, doing various services, freely offered, that he never told her about. He seemed to have taken the Savior's message on giving to heart.

[Tacenda]

7 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Wow. This one leads me to recall my brother-in-law who was married to one of my late wife's sisters. He seemed to have lived a decent life, took care of his family well, and seemed to be a good husband. I met him briefly once while I was on my mission, and then later by astounding coincidence I ended up marrying his wife's sister! After he died, my sister-in-law found out that he had had a long-term mistress, who actually showed up for the funeral! I never got the full story on that, because she never wanted to talk about it with my wife, just told her that it had happened.

On the other hand, after my current wife's husband passed away, she found out that he had quietly helped many people out of troubles by helping them finding jobs, buying them groceries, doing various services, freely offered, that he never told her about. He seemed to have taken the Savior's message on giving to heart.

Awww, that is sweet, the story of your wife's deceased husband. I'm sure it'll be hard for her to not have you in her life after death. But glad she has this guy! Of course, I'm in the mindset that you and her and her and her husband and even your deceased wife will all be together or at least be neighbors! 

Edited January 3, 2024 by Tacenda

[Stargazer]

13 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Awww, that is sweet, the story of your wife's deceased husband. I'm sure it'll be hard for her to not have you in her life after death. But glad she has this guy! Of course, I'm in the mindset that you and her and her and her husband and even your deceased wife will all be together or at least be neighbors! 

You made me smile bigly!

Wendy and I imagine that our deceased spouses are now good friends in the Spirit World, and may have been the influence that brought us two together. 

[jkwilliams]

I hadn’t seen this, but my nephew is featured in this Jerusalem Post article. 

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-773676

[Stargazer]

On 1/18/2024 at 5:40 PM, jkwilliams said:

I hadn’t seen this, but my nephew is featured in this Jerusalem Post article. 

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-773676

Sweet! He's the Josh Ulansey in the article?

I had read Leon Uris's novel "Exodus" when I was a teen, and told my friend who brought me into the church that I dreamt of moving to Israel to help fight for its survival. He said "That's great, but you need to get baptized first!" 🙂 

In 1967 during the Six-day War, I plotted the progress of the Israeli Army on a map I posted on my wall. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

I had read Leon Uris's novel "Exodus" when I was a teen, and told my friend who brought me into the church that I dreamt of moving to Israel to help fight for its survival.

I read Exodus at 14 iirc and so wanted to join an Israeli commune.

Since this is Social….this still brings tears to my eyes.  Much more complicated feelings about it these days though….

 

Edited January 20, 2024 by Calm

[jkwilliams]

3 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Sweet! He's the Josh Ulansey in the article?

I had read Leon Uris's novel "Exodus" when I was a teen, and told my friend who brought me into the church that I dreamt of moving to Israel to help fight for its survival. He said "That's great, but you need to get baptized first!" 🙂 

In 1967 during the Six-day War, I plotted the progress of the Israeli Army on a map I posted on my wall. 

Yep, Josh is my sister’s youngest. 

[jkwilliams]

Just FYI, Josh has been “released” from his reserve duty (that sounds like it was a church calling). He will be heading home next week. Needless to say, my sister is very relieved. I told him he’s probably the only combat veteran of the IDF who has Mormon pioneer ancestors.  😊

[Raingirl]

On 1/19/2024 at 4:23 PM, Calm said:

I read Exodus at 14 iirc and so wanted to join an Israeli commune.

Since this is Social….this still brings tears to my eyes.  Much more complicated feelings about it these days though….

 

I have many friends who made Aliyah to Israel. Neither they, nor I, have “ complicated” feelings. 

[Calm]

53 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

I have many friends who made Aliyah to Israel. Neither they, nor I, have “ complicated” feelings. 

I would find it very difficult these days to leave my son and his family even if I convinced my husband and daughter to follow me to live on a commune. I have much deeper roots now. 

Edited February 7, 2024 by Calm

[rodheadlee]

On 1/1/2024 at 10:18 AM, SkyRock said:

This thread brought back the memory of attending a funeral of man.  It was very well attended (300 to 500 people).  His daughter gave the eulogy.  He was no one important, never held any important callings in the church,  just impacted many lives and died at 68.

His wife later told me she never knew if had loved her until the last few years when he retired.   I found out later that he had cheated on her repeatedly, including those last few years.   Then, talking to some of his children, I was informed that he had molested at least one of his children, including the daughter that eulogized him and praised him, but didn't cry about his death. 

This person left deep wounds in many people.  

So I have a question. When there are people like this in your family tree do you still have to do their Temple work?

[Calm]

56 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

So I have a question. When there are people like this in your family tree do you still have to do their Temple work?

If you mean do the research and not the proxy work and not “have to” (because no one gets a temple recommend pulled because they are not researching genealogy) but should (as in being commanded by God), I believe that is left up to the person to decide and my guess is God is not upset when some relatives can’t bring themself to submit the names of those they knew in life were destroyers of love and maybe even lives. 
 

I have never been taught in a genealogy class at church or at BYU that we had to do the research and then proxy work for everyone in our families. There was typically the assumption that we would want to though. 
 

If you mean go through the temple acting as the proxy, there is no need for that as one can just submit the name and have someone else do the work.

Eventually the work will get done even if not by family members. 

Edited February 7, 2024 by Calm

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I have never been taught in a genealogy class at church or at BYU that we had to do the research and then proxy work for everyone in our families. There was typically the assumption that we would want to though. 

My patriarchal blessing makes a particular point that it is something I need to see to. Probably because I'm a convert. But it doesn't demand it.

It seems that it is a matter of some urgency, though, with Malachi 4:6 in mind.

[SkyRock]

3 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

So I have a question. When there are people like this in your family tree do you still have to do their Temple work?

We do the work and let God sort it out.

The problem is that he wasn't a person in the 1600s who wasn't a member of the church, but a member holding a current temple recommend at death. 

From my understanding, he never confessed any of his serious sexual sins.  His bishop even gave him a pass for drinking coffee as he lied and said it was for his health.